I loaded up several rounds for my Buddie's Savage Steven 300 win mag sporter barrel, and it shot these reloads very well, but after awhile he started shooting it alot...HOT... since the ammo was free. It started spraying bullets 3-6" wild. Heavy barrel cleaning made no difference. I screwed on two different used 300 sporter barrels, but still no difference... but I'm not sure of those barrels condition either. But surely 3 barrels can't all be doing the same thing....CAN THEY?

We had installed a Boyd laminated stock on it prior to it's going crazy, and it shot pretty good. Since this problem arose, I've rebedded it, opened up the barrel channel, did all I can think of with the stock. I was going to try his old stock but he discarded it...DUH. I am at my wit's end with this thing. I'm ready to buy a factory stock to rule out that problem, and to buy a new/used barrel... maybe something besides a sporter.... or whatever. I've got to get this thing fixed while I still have hairs in my head. Please help me with your knowledge.... or stocks or barrels. Thanks....Dan

EDIT.... PS.... I have also tried different quality scopes.... no difference..... and it shoots the same with factory rounds.

Scope or mounts not right?

Micky... I forgot to add that statement...thanks..

EDIT.... PS.... I have also tried different quality scopes.... no difference.

Well, if its not the barrel, or the stock, or the scope or mounts, have you mixed up primers or powder?

Well Micky.... I forgot to add that part as well.... LOL. Factory rounds make no difference. Factory and reloads still scatter.... it must be the barrel.

What about the bases and rings? Have you tried a different setup?

Fouled barrel if not burned out!

I've tried different quality scopes... and even a couple of new scopes... and diff rings... but not bases... they are the two piece weaver split bases. They seem super tight as I've messed with them as well.

This thing was shooting good for him with his factory rounds... dumming me thought I'd help him out with a lot of reloads... which shot good for awhile, even in the new stock. He shot it one summer day about 30 rds straight.... (barrel must have been HOT) ... he was happy, even out to 300 yds. Then after that outing, it sprayed the rounds all over for him. A few days later i took it and shot it 20 times, and was happy with it... gave it back to him... and it sprayed again... I then took it back again.. and it sprayed for me as well... and this is where Ive been ever since.
I cleaned it super dupper clean. It seemed to shoot well for a couple of shots, then went back to spraying. It seems like the same thing happens with all three used barrels... both with factory and my reloads..... and my reloads are good ones.... but this rifle is making me out to be a liar...LOL. I would have been tickled if his factory rds shot great... but they didn't.

It must be the barrel because it seemed to get worse and worse the more it was shot. I guess I'll make a WTB thread for another barrel. thanks Guys.

I used a borescope on all barrels and they were dirty. I super brushed them all to a mirror finish clean before I started all this mess of changing out barrels.

If they shoot good clean, then foul quickly, DBC may be a big help.

DF

DBC...????

Dyna Bore Coat.

Lots of info here on the Fire, do a search.

It will just about eliminate or at least greatly reduce copper fouling.

It's nano particle material that is applied to a super clean bore. The heat from firing cures the material into the steel, creating a really slick surface.

DF

that sounds like a good idea, but probably too costly for a cheap factory sporter barrel

Not that expensive, just get a DBC kit and do it yourself.

A lot cheaper than a new barrel.

BTW, I DBC my new barrels, even premium ones.

Good stuff.

DF

Dyna Bore coat kit from Brownells is $40 and will treat more then one barrel.

looks like they discontinued it

There is clean, and then there is clean. Are you familiar with copper fouling, how to spot it, and how to clean it out? Assuming a decent scope properly mounted, and a stock that fits reasonably well, then what jKob said, shot out or badly fouled.

Google it.

Someone is selling it. Buy it direct.

DF

Midway has it in stock for $19.99

That's a good price.

DF

I have a hard time believing that 3 different barrels would be "shot out". Something else must be the cause.

What cleaning products do you use?
What do you mean your reloads are "good ones"?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Something ain't right. Even those rough Salvage barrels usually shoot better than that.

They shoot a lot better than one would think after a Hawkeye inspection.

Rougher they are, the more you need DBC and the more spectacular the result.

DF

Bedding changed? What else is left.

I agree with you guys that he shot it WAY to much and got it very HOT, and I'm sure that is why the accuracy started going wild on the original barrel. The two used ones I bought were headspaced properly... well within a piece of tape gap... and they started going wild as well. There is no way three barrels, even used, would all do the same thing, so there must be other problems. The barrel is super free floated.
I'm all for changing calibers but he likes the 300 because it knocks bucks and boar hogs down in the dirt... which he does a lot of.

He is open to buying a new barrel if he could get one reasonably priced... or even a used one that somebody knows is good, but just set it aside.

I'm going to scrub the crap out this one barrel today and take written notes on how it shoots. The stock and action are tight. The mounts and rings are tight... while holding my Burris Mtac Scope... and I have fresh reloads that shot well in the beginning... which I think started the whole problem, because he it's accuracy and bang the gongs too long.

thanks Guys...Dan

PS.... thanks Dirtfarmer... for the info on the DBC.... I'll try to get some.

Just because the bolts are tight, that doesn't mean that the mounts are not your problem.

I'm actually surprised that the bolt would close after 30 rounds at one sitting.Your friend needs a 22-250.

Clean the bore of Carbon fouling and treat with Sweets 7.62 for 10 Min. If the patch comes out blue, do it again.

If I get this thing shooting again....HE WILL NOT SHOOT IT HOT AGAIN...LOL.

I agree with cleaning the barrel and the using a dedicated copper solvent.
Also I'm not to familiar with savage but could the front base screw be to long and bottoming out on the barrel threads? It's a common problem with many other rifles.

I'd be changing the scope mounts if it were me.
You've changed everything else, and this is acting like a classic scope issue.

Agree with a bedding and scope/mount check/swap.

With those fit it yourself Salvage barrels, a pre chambered Shaw or similar shouldn't break the bank.

DF

I think you should just throw in the towel and cut your losses. I'll pay shipping to me. I'll dispose of it properly for you. PM me.

Check bullet run out. Over .002" and it is dust. It sounds like bullets are started crooked.

Another good suggestion. I use a Sinclair run out gauge, straighten with a Tru tool.

Concentric ammo will shoot better than less concentric ammo. That is, if the gun is worthy enough to tell the difference.

DF

I agree with this guy, I am just hunting for a reason to build another one!

check the bolt out, firing pin, spring and etc. slow Locktime can cause this type of groups.

Savage / Stevens .. is one of the guns with the barrel nut and home-replacement barrels? I have not worked with those but the fact that 3 consecutive barrels don't work for [bleep] suggests either you're putting them together wrong or something. It might not be headspace, it might be you're not getting something square, not tight enough, etc. regarding that nut. Could be messed up threads not aligning quite right, grit or debris from machining, etc. So a really crazy-intense cleaning of the parts before you assemble might be called for.

It could also be ... true for any gun ... that the barrel-stock gap is not quite adequate. If the barrel contacts the stock during recoil / firing it fouls up the vibrations. If that happens 2 shots out of 5 or 3 out of 5, inconsistently, then you can easily be shooting groups between softball and volleyball size. Depending on what material the stock is made of and how stiff it is, the amount of gap needed between barrel and stock can vary from the thickeness of a couple dollar bills (something truly stuff with an aluminum bedding block) to nearly 1/8th of an inch (thin-ish injection molded stocks). Basically, if you can hold the gun by the barrel just ahead of the stock, then smack the stock with your other hand and it whacks the barrel AT ALL, you don't have enough gap ... or you have too much gap and need to full-length bed the barrel to the stock for consistency.

IMHO ... at least.

Tom

or you have too much gap and need to full-length bed the barrel to the stock for consistency

Too much gap? Never heard of that...Hmmm... I removed a lot of wood in the channel... it's floating a lot.

Some rifles simply will not shoot well if the barrel is free-floated, they require contact pressure. Sometimes a pressure point at the forend, sometimes full length bedding.

Wood stock you say? I assume you're talking walnut, not laminate. Correct me if I'm wrong. I do not like pressure points or full length bedding on a wood stock because humidity changes often cause slight stock warping which pushes groups around, however, sometimes with a gun that won't shoot well free-floated, you are left with no options. Best thing to do there is either punt the rifle or buy a synthetic stock (and cross your fingers).

Tom

Loose bases, bedding issues, or perhaps cracked stock.

How do you check head space with a piece of tape? I always use go, no-go headspace gauges.

the laminated stock is pretty new, and it shot well for awhile until he turned it into a flame thrower with those 30 some straight rounds.... and then another big round a week later... that's when it started spraying.

what is the best thing to put at the end of the stock... bedding I guess?

headspaced with formed case as a go.... and no go with one piece of tape attached to another formed case... and causes a snug bolt feel... and two pieces of tape is to tight for sure. Don't have a set of gages for it, so this is the country way...LOL.

Tomorrow i'm going to put my Doctor's Suit on and do surgery on it until it LIVES. If it dies...then I'm going to raise the DEAD...LOL.

A formed case doesn't do you much good for measuring headspace since the measurement is taken from the belt on a 300 win mag. Beg, borrow, buy or steal the correct gauges. Be safe.

I read all five pages....one more idea:

Check front scope ring base to see if forward screw is too long and making contact with barrel

I thought about that scope screw, but wouldn't it interfere with the barrels being screwed on and off if it were touching...?

Masking tape on the head. Should close with some resistance with two layers but not with three. Head space should not make the gun shoot bad since you adjust dies to fit.
I have never had luck with fore end pressure so I remove it. Most of the time the barrel node is not there anyway. All barrels have vibration nodes and none will be the same. You can find a node by holding the action and rapping the barrel with your palm to find the dead spots.
I bought a Rem 700 in .280 once, plastic stock. It would NOT shoot. I found the stock was a wimp so I bedded a stainless aircraft tube in the fore arm to stiffen it. 3/8" hydraulic tube. Cured it fast. I used steel bed with it and at the recoil lug, Then Accra Glass for the receiver. Care must be used bedding an action so there is no stress on it. The recoil lug needs clearance at the sides, bottom and front. I use thick aircraft electrical tape, two layers so do NOT bed them tight. Only the rear. Worst I seen was a factory rifle with soft bedding, chewing gum.
Then stock screws make the front 40 inch #, the rear at 25 inch # and any center screw just snug. DO NOT use a foot # wrench.
Pillar bedding works too. Takes more expertise of course. Box magazines must be fit right.
I seen rifles with cracked stocks at the back of the receiver. Fixed the crack and drilled into the stock to inlay a steel rod to touch the back of the receiver. Some Ruger rifles would split there. There must be a tad of clearance at the wood. Wood work is extremely tough to get right. NOT a Bubba job at all. There are 1000 things to think about. Savage has always been a sleeper for accuracy, good guns.

I installed a fourth barrel today, a nice barely used stainless steel sporter... but it sprayed as well....then I installed several pieces of tough cardboard under the front of the stock tip.... but it still sprayed 4-6 in wide 5 shot groups... with my reloads that worked in the beginning... but now... I'm wondering if that could be the problem.... I've tried everything else. I've been using 78.0 gr of H4831SC...9 1/2 rem prim.... 150 Hornady interlocks.... seated 3.340.

I guess I need to start all over and find a Wonder Load.... I guess...

Thanks Guys for all your help.

If it won't shot with 180gr bullets loaded over 70grs of H4350 there is a mechanical problem with the rifle, scope or mounts.

I replaced the old B&C stock on my semi-custom Mark X several years ago. The old stock was the one with the built in sling attachments. I put a B&C Medalist on it. When I did the job, I was sure everything was right.

Recently I've had this rifle shoot some nice, tight groups---with a load I no longer wish to use, wouldn't ya know...I'm re-purposing the rifle and going to a much lighter bullet. Load development has been frustrating, sometimes showing promise and other times stringing vertically several inches.

Just the other day I was replacing the old Mark X trigger with a Timney when I noticed that the front guard screw bottomed out abruptly as I was reassembling everything. Funny I hadn't noticed that before. The action was most definitely loose and not sitting in its bedding like it was supposed to. I don't know how it ever shot as well as it did at times after I put it in the new stock.

Moral of the story: don't dismiss anything, even if you "know" it couldn't possibly be the problem. I wouldn't continue changing barrels, though. But what do I know.

If it’s on the 4th barrel and still not shooting I would guess the problem is somewhere else. How’s the bedding?

For sure, bedding is not easy. Been doing it forever. Over 60 years now and never had a bad one. Changing barrels will not solve it. It is an art to bed a rifle. It is art to make a stock from a plank of wood. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a better result.

Are you getting the picture that it may not be a barrel issue?

LOL.... insanity has left the house... for now anyways...LOL. I knew in my gut that it was NOT the barrels, but I couldn't put my finger on the problem since I had changed several good scopes... inspected the mounts... which are two piece slotted weavers... and are tight... and the screws are not too long that they touch the barrel threads. I just cleaned the inside of the firing pin assembly, it looked clean..... it has to be the reloads or the stock... but then again, it didn't shoot the factory Hornady loads very good either.... so... it is either I need to try a different load or it's the stock.... and i think most of you guys say it's the stock.... could be... I wish he had not thrown that factory stock away.... maybe I should start a WTB thread for a factory stock in order to rule out this stock...just to experiment.

When I first bedded the stock, it shot okay, and was shooting okay until he got it hot and it started spraying. Since then I have removed the bedding around the barrel nut and anything forward of that..... maybe it needs that area bedded again...?

The barrel channel has at least 1/8" clearance all around the barrel length. The lug is more loose bedded than tight bedded... maybe it needs to be tightened up?

I would start with rebedding the lug. You can always chisel it out if it makes it worse. But that’s a lot cheaper than good for new barrels and stocks

Seems that you have more time and money into this than it is worth. I would buy another rifle and move on.

Move On.... only quitters do that... what's to be learned from that????????

Money ain't everything

Check the tang area of the stock and make sure it is free floated. Savages need a floating tang. Also check for a crack in the stock somewhere. I had a left hand Savage 7-08 that shot softball sized groups from the factory because the stock was for a right hand rifle and somebody at the factory cut a new left hand bolt handle slot, but got it too far back and the bolt handle was rubbing the stock. Bad juju ensued. I found it by accident as I was changing barrels. After removing enough stock material for the handle to be clear, it shot small groups with both the .22-250 barrel I installed and later with the original barrel reinstalled.

Using a cartridge case & tape for a head space gauge makes me think a real gunsmith is needed to sort this out........

Well... a few days about I pulled the action and installed it in a plastic stock from my savage 110 30/06, just to see if it was the stock or not.... well.... it still shot like crap. Looks like I have to rule out the stock, and also the barrel... so it has to be in the loads, the scope or mounts. I can't imagine the scope or mounts being wrong because everything looks good and tight... so I'm getting ready to load up some 180 gr bullets to see if that will make a difference. I'll let you know what happens. thanks so much for all your helpful input.

I had posted this thread on another popular forum and have not gotten any good replies like I have here on this Good Website.... thanks so much.... Jesus Bless You All...Dan

Hate to bring this up,BUT, with all that has been done and tried and this thing still does not shoot , could the the problem be the "Nut behind the buttstock?" AKA a good old fashioned flinch? Let an uninterested party shoot it and see what happens.

No flinching by me nor the owner that has shot it way more than myself. I wish that was the problem...LOL.

Ok just checking!

Remember the old song "Battle of New Orleans" by Johnny Horton?
We fired our cannon til the barrel melted down. Then we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round. We filled his head with cannon balls then powdered his behind, and when we touched the powder off the gator lost his mind.

Everything was going pretty good until your buddy damn near "melted the barrel down." Now it's been cleaning, multiple barrels, more than one stock, scopes/mounts?, and different loads? I don't know what to tell you, but I'll be interested, once you figure it out (if you figure it out), what shooting it so much/hot had to do with it. That said, unless something else happened that you missed, shooting it so hot seems to be the thing that started all the trouble.

I just loaded up 180 SST / 68.0 / 69.0 / & 70.0 grs of H4350, 9 1/2 rem primers, seated to 3.440 which is .030 off lands... surely something here will work... I sure hope it's the loads.... we'll see tomorrow... if not... it will be scope and mount changing time. I've NEVER had a challenge like this before...WOW.

If it works... I'll be so happy that I will give all you helpful Guys a three night, four day vacation in the Keys...LOL.

Dan I know you have said the scope, rings and base is fine but they are the only thing you haven't changed. Maybe it's time to do that or at least take a different scope in different rings with you to mount on the gun if it still isn't preforming like it should.

Change the barrel nut,it's possible ya'll stretched it during the "how fast and hot session" and it's not quite getting tight enough to actually hold the barrel as solid as it needs to be.

Sell it.
Buy a .30-06.

Sell it??????/ That is nothing more than screwing over someone that doesn't know better. That's lying, deceptive, and dishonest in every way... remind me to never buy anything from you...LOL.

i GOT IT.... so far so good. After installing the 4 th barrel... and a plastic stock, it still didn't shoot good with 150 gr bullets....so... I loaded up some 180 SST bullets with H4831SC, at 68.0, 69,0 and 70,0 grs of powder... and they started grouping. The 69.0 grouped consistantly around 1/2"... which is AWESOME... now i need to replace the laminated pretty stock to see if it still groups. Thanks Guys for your helpful suggestions.


https://photos.google.com/u/1/album...ipM6yh2w1YqxAQIrVfmwYqIJjMQqozGkAAKz4OBF

Good for you! Ive gotta ask. 300WIN with a 150gr? Why? 180s are IMO a way better choice and it's not a surprise it shot them well.

I used 180 gr bullets... I couldn't get the 150's to group well

I'm asking why did you try 150s? Seems way to light in a 300WIN. Was there a specific reason you tried 150s? Either way glad you hopefully found an answer to the problem.

The owner was shooting 150's when I got it, so we tried to stay with them... and in the beginning I had some 150's shooting pretty good... but it went south. The 150's put every deer in the dirt when he shot them... hopefully these 180's will do the same.

Could there be a crack in the laminated stock?
Delamination?

The 180s will be fine on deer. Good luck!

I just shot it with the laminated stock and it shoots good now... so now I'm not sure if the whole problem was just the reloads and the barrel... it doesn't matter now since it shoots 3/4 " at the moment... and it's going back to my buddy.... Praise the Lord....LOL. thanks Guys for all your help. May Jesus Bless You All.... Dan