Just picked up a 94, 30-30 today, in a trade. It was represented as a pre-WW11
The serial number is 10960XX.
Anyone have a book that would tell the date of manufacture?
It has the "long" forearm wood, I'm told this is "eastern" manufacture. Crosshatch filing on the hammer, and a "shotgun" metal buttplate.
Also, It's drilled&tapped for the 2 screws of a tang sight.
Thanks for any help, you'all can give.
Virgil B.

I have one built in '65 and it's in the 26xxxxx range. FWIW.

Check out this link: Mfg. Dates

My Madis book says it was made in 1935. You didn't say it's a carbine, but I'm guessing it is, as the tip of the fore end was a little longer than on the later carbines. The checkered hammer spur is typical of that time. Eastern carbines are carbines made without the saddle ring. By this time the steel shotgun butt plate was standard.

Saddle Rings were Special orders after the late 20's. IIR they were only added on request or order after the early 20's.
Here's another DOM link.

http://www.savage99.com/dates.htm

Thanks for the info, guys!
Wow! this gun is older than I thought. Guss I did good, as I have $350. in it!
And yes, It's a carbine, and a good shooter. While sighting it in, I got a 3 shot group of 3/4" at 30 yards. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Virgil B.

One more qustion, do you think changing the semi-buckhorn rear sight to another semi buckhorn, with a white diamond at the bottom of the groove, would change the value?
I've got one, and it sure would show up better, but don't want to hurt the "value" of this old gun.
Thanks! Virgil B.

If it affected the value it would only be a portion of the difference in the prices of the sights themselves.

I'd guess. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Twodogs!
Think i'll slip in the white diamond semi-buckhorn, 'till I can pick up a tang peep.
My old eyes need all the help they can get.
Virgl B.

My eyes are shot too but I started iron sight shooting my 94's a couple years ago and it's a bunch of fun. Get a good backstop and crank 'em out there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Marbles sight will lower the value quite a bit if you try to sell it to a collector. Keep the original sight and put it back on if you ever sell it.

If the gun is origional and you change the sight your going to devalue the gun a LOT more than the cost of the sight. Even if you keep the origional sight it's often hard to swap them out without marking the bluing. Unless it's completely necessary keep the gun 100% origional or else you are really changing the value of the gun. If you need a white dot use white fishing lure paint. I do the same thing on handguns without colored sights. It's easy to take off without damaging the gun and improves the sight without physical alteration.

Stetson,
Thanks for the tip!
Also, this carbine is marked 30 WCF
And is D&T'd for a reciver peep as well as for a tang peep, and has filler screws in all holes.
The blueing is mostly gone from the reciver, but the barrel and mag tube retain about 80%
Virgil B.

Virgil;


The "30 WCF" marking is Winchesters caliber marking for 30-30 used to stay in keeping with the other Winchester matkings. 'WCF' means Winchester Center Fire and was used until the '50s.

They were all drilled and tapped for both side mount and tang mount sights during that time period.

If the reciever had blue on it that would be unusual. Because of the high nickel content of the metal in the receivers, the blue would not stay and most of the blue flake off. I have seen new in box 94s that had less than half the blueing still on the reciever, the rest having flaked off even though the gun had never been used.

Your serial number fall within the "transition model" range. You said it has a shotgun butt plate so it should also have a ramp front sight. Before that variation was the one called the Transition Model which had a carbine buttstock and the ramp front sight. These fall into a narrow serial number range. Anything of earlier manufacture had a carbine stock and no ramp under the front sight. Although, guns could be special ordered in almost any configuration. Never say never with Winchester.

Hope this is of interest. If it is original you have done very well.

Jim Bledsoe
Winchester 1894 collector
Winchester Arms Collectors Assoc.

Jim,
Thanks for the additional information. And yes it has a ramped front sight. The shotgun steel butplate has horizontal grooves in the middle half.
The only thing I'm wondering about is the semi-buckhorn sight. It seems longer, more like a rifle sight, as there isn't enough room for the elevator to come out the back without hitting the reciver.
Virgil B.

Virgil;

That would be the correct buttplate. That is the lowest serial numbered post transition carbine that I have heard of, it sounds like a very interesting gun.

Now for the bad news, the rear sight elevator or sight itself may not be original. The slot for the rear sight should be 2 and 7/8 inches from the front of the reciever. The sight itself should be approx. 3 and 1/8 inches long overall. The elevator is short and the thumb pad is on the forward end and is in front of the sight notch.

Does this match what you have?

Jim

Jim,
The elevator was missing when I got the gun. I was thinking it should stick out the reciver end. The sight is 3-1/8" long and .5" from the reciver, so it must be factory. I think all i need is the correct elevator, with the thumb piece.
Thanks again!
Virgil B.

Virgil;

The correct elevator was also used on the model 54 Winchester. It is the 22-F Sporting sight elevator. You can often find them at gun shows.

Jim

Here's a place to look at some older Winchesters and the rear sights are included in a lot of the photos. Wander around this site and you can likely figure out what type you want.

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/11-94wl-4765.jpg

OR

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsRW_winchester_1873.htm

twodogs,
Thanks for the links!
Marbles says that their full buckhorn sight was a factory option on the 94. Wish I could just slip one on, but now I'm scared of messing with this gun. Gotta check with some local folks and see if I can find the correct elevator.
Virgil B.

I've changed, replaced, installed and modified so many rear sights on rifles I don't even think about it any more. If you have a good expert locally who can take a look at it for you it could be you don't even have the original on now. Then you can do what you want.


I went to a specialty shop a few years back and asked for a rear sight for a Winchester M1892 rifle. For a few bucks I walked out with a Marbles buckhorn. I shot the rifle for a while and then went to a gun show and saw that all the 1892's had rear sights that looked more like the modern 94's and hardly any were alike.

So, I got a Numrich Gun Parts catalog and found all sorts of sights and elevators. Now I've got "Winchester '94" sights on H&R's, Savage's Remington's, and whatever needs one. I've gathered up a small collection of different elevators but the "Winchester's" are unique with the thumb pad.

No matter what you decide, I do hope you get to bang away with it. They're sure fun

Yep,
I'm thinking this gun will be more of a "shooter" than just an investment.
Bought a box of Hornady 150 innerlocks to blast away with.
Have another 1950's, 94 that I load 165 cast bullets in, at about 1200 fps. am thinking this will be just right for grouse or turkeys.
Heck, I've got a 94 timber carbine in 30-30 also.
I'm having fun with these open sighted "brush guns"
Guss that's the bottom line... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Virgil B.

No reason it can't be a shooter and an investment. Just take care of it and look for the missing part. Try eBay and you might get lucky.
The Marbles sights were options. As per the Maddis book #63 had a flat top, #64 was a semi-buck-horn and #65 was a full buck-horn.
The adjustable folding rear leaf sight from Marbles was also offered after 1928.
It shouldn't be that hard to find the part you need at a gun show etc and keep your gun origional.
Either way enjoy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again, guys for sharing your knowledge.
I first bought this gun for an investment but have decided it's a "keeper"
Been thinking on re-boring my timber scout to 38-55, but now that Winchester has closed, this gun is gonna raise in value also.
Heck, I NEED a 38-55 to go with my 94, 30-30's!
Anyone know what year Winchester stopped chambering for the 38-55?
And what is a "shooter" going for nowdays?
Thanks again, Virgil B.

The 38-55 has been fairly pricey for a long time. A respectable shooter will be $1500 ish here. Some over 2k some under 1k. A lot of variables but the caliber brings a major premium.

Stetson,
Wow! I didn't realize a 38-55 was going for that much "loot". I might be better off with my origonal plan of re-boring my Timber Scout.
Thanks!
Virgil B.

Since Winchester closed prices are all over the place. I sold off several Winchesters about two years ago. Last year I saw Cabelas sell one that looked identical to a TD '94 32-40 made in 1895 and well over 90% for $5500. I sold that gun for about $3200. This year I saw one in the same configuration with wood that might have been a split hair better and the metal not as good as the one I sold. Price? 10k. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Don't assume those run of the mill '94's won't go way up in price. IMO the '94 is currently the most under valued Winchester.

Stetson,
I've read where the 94, Timber Scout in 450 Marlin has taken a jump in price already.
Might be that my Timber Scout in 30-30 will go up also.
It's not like I have to have a 38-55 right away. Will have to think on my best "move"
Virgil B.

Virgil;

PM me with you phone number. And where is Loraine Oregon?

My records also show it was made in 1935---2MG

Lorane is Outside of Eugene, Oregon. BMT