Been trying to get into shape for the ole goat hunt this winter.....patting myself on the back for losing the lbs!!! This weekend I decided (with wife's permission) to go on a two day solo "death march" in the Cohutta wilderness just north of Blue Ridge, GA. I put in about 20 miles between Sat. noon and Sunday at 3pm. I thought I was going to handle it better, but my calf muscles are screaming! I wore the same boots that I used last year in the NWT and my feet were dying by the end of the first day. Knees hurt, too. It brings home the point that it's hard to train for backpacking in mountains without actually backpacking in the mountains. I think more "death marches" are in my future.
Don

Don, apart from building a two story house by oneself, the best Mountain exercise I've found (apart from being on the hill as you've said) is stair running. Adding a pack helps. A stair machine is almost as good but actually running stairs is like lifting free-weights vs using a machine. You get more out of it for the same time commitment.

Doc,

Some high schools offer bleachers for training with a pack. Hey, better than nothing!



MtnHtr

For me running bleachers helps with cardio A LOT. Especially with a pack. But I agree, nothing is a real substitute for an actual hump.


Travis

there's just not enough time in our normal lives to train appropriately for the long extended hiking we will do when hunting.


so we substitute intensity for duration.

like the idea of running bleachers with a pack,

but i'm a big proponent of ankle weights for training too.

good luck don

No one ever comes back from a sheep or goat hunt wishing they had trained less.

hiking (or jogging) at altitude is great. You may have to improvise in GA though. The more you can practice going "up", the better....

You could perhaps try a treadmill or nordic track on an incline, if you cannot find stairs to run.

Also, mountain biking makes for good cross training where backpacking is concerned, IME.

carb load (lots of beer and potatos) in the off season. Hike with a pack off trail as much as possible. Finish your workouts with a healthy dose of hops.

Kurt, that's close to my regimin. I call it Horizontal Training... ie, lay on the couch eating pizza, drinking beer, watching TV.

horizontal training and hardship hunts right Mac...

Dober

Us flat-landers do all we can

Anyone ever use of the mask to simulate altitude? I just saw it while browsing a climbing book at B&N. Basicly it resticted your air intake to simulate less oxygen, it was something you could wear while working out or even while sleeping.

As one of those residing at about 50ft above sea level and hunting at 6500 Im always looking for some tips.

Getting "water boarded" with your hunting boots on will get you motivated!

I did some training in a Hypoxia chamber at my gym before climbing Mt. Hood one year. It was incredible. It was like working out at 10,000'. I would run on the tread mill inside the tent (with an incline) and then I would come out of that little plastic tent and hit the stair climber (the machine that has the actual rotating stairs- not the little step levers) and start climbing. Awesome to notice the immediate difference in O2 levels. It really hammered home the need for more oxygen efficiency.

Mark

A stair master with a kick butt Dall sheep hunting video works.

Just keep a fresh video on hand. Then on the weekend on either saturday or sunday do a 10 to 12 mile hike!!

Can't ever be in good enough shape!! Much eaiser said than done.

Just don't aquire a stress injury. That would ruin everything.

Mark

Don't know your age, but if your over 50 the answer is no. However, the stress injury factor that someone else mentioned must be considered. Lose whatever weight you can and still remain strong.
Besides the body, your mental attitude goes a long way. Start right now with eliminating any thoughts re: quitting or giving in. That alone can carry you a long way.

If you train hard enough and the right way i.e. giving your body a recovery period you will eventually know you have done all you can.

While climbing and once on the mountain, drink all the water you can as often as you can. You can dehydrate quickly, even if you are not sweating a lot. When you are dehydrated you lose sodium, but when you get to the top and start eating freeze dried food which is loaded with sodium you can develop symptoms of excess sodium and dehydration-confusion, muscle weakness, dizziness. This will tend to dehydrate you even more. You probably will not realize the symptoms until they set in.

Drink as much water as you can. If you notice your urine is a strong yellow color, you are not drinking enough. It should be clear.

Hope you have reason to drink something other than water after the hunt. Wish you nothing but the best.

Battue

p.s.
After looking at your "fire" name, you may have already known all this.

I appreciate all the comments and advice. I do need to watch for the stress injury for sure. Mental attitude is also incredible. I've actually seen guys give up on big dollar hunts and fly home. I've seen a guy wrench his knee on the walk to the super cub that was taking him out the first time. It's easy to write a check that your body can't cash! I'm trying to avoid that, and enjoy the hunt more. The last time I was in this location in AK, I felt that the terrain beat me, and I didn't like that feeling at all.
Don

There is a fine line to be drawn as a man trains. You need to stay in shape, but there is the wear and tear, on joints especially, that dissuades me from training with a lot of weight more often than I do.

I truly believe a man can wear out joints if he stresses them too badly. So although I train with a weighted pack I don't do it a lot. And although I do run as my base fitness workout, I only do it on a nice cushioned treadmill or running track. And I lift a couple times a week but I do so with the intention of strengthening tendons and muscles not seeing how much I can put up.

Not saying it is the only way, but it is what I have found to be best for me. And the old adage about not being able to out train a bad diet has never been more true for me either. That said I am proud of the way I got back into shape since New Year's Day. Don't look like the same person that I did only a couple months ago.

Will

Keep a good mix of activities with the purpose of improving body composition (less fat, more muscle), muscular strength, muscular endurance. Go easy on death marches if you're not used to them. My part time job is in the reserves training basic trainees for annual training. Road marches are a great fitness tool but too much will bring on the lower leg and back problems. The intensity should be high enough and long enough to be not fun while you're hiking but you should not feel wrecked the next day. Mild discomfort is fine. Try a couple of short 3 mile hikes during the week with a light-moderate pack at 4 mph. If you can't hold 4 mph (15 minute miles or 55-60 seconds per 100 meters, then try a lighter pack. On the weekend try a longer, slower, heavier pack hike.
Do your flexibility a favor by stretching out well after your hikes. No bouncing, just smooth comfortable stretches.
Reduce lower leg stress by going low impact on some of your cardio work such as time in the pool or on the bike or an elliptical.
Stadiums are great but take care of your knees by walking down, not running.

I think my death march unintentionally downhill for the first 80% with a steep terminal 20%. Honestly, when I got to the uphill portion I was thankful. The only lasting misery is in my calves and it ain't too bad; and it looks like the downhill pounding will cost me a big toenail! I don't get it, I walked the heck out of those boots last summer with no ill effect. I used different socks, last summer using a thick Cabelas sock, and this last trip I had one of those Wright's double layer hiking sock.
Count me as puzzled, and toenail-less (at least one),
Don

What kind of boots? The toe box must keep your toes from hitting the front of the boot on downhills. This is where the correct size is important.

Battue

I wish I had done these goat and sheep hunts when I was younger but I waited until I thought I could afford them instead. In the last three years I have done two BC Mt goat hunts and a Alaska sheep hunt and have another goat hunt scheduled in BC again this year. Each time I have tried to be in better shape than I was for hunt the previous year. I weighed 226lbs when I started training for my first goat hunt and thought I was doing good getting down to 190lbs or so by the time I left for my trip. Last year I was under 175lbs going into my sheep hunt.

Being retired allowed me extra time to train last year. Most of my conditioning was done with daily use of an eliptical and climbing stairs with a weighted backpack. Two months before my planned trip I worked my way up to at least an hour on the elitical each day at the highest setting. Every other day I walked the high school track and climbed up and down the bleachers with a sixty pound pack. It took me just over an hour to walk two and a half miles around the track and climb up and down 1300 steps on the bleachers. Every little bit helps!

Bowjack: You did good. The mistake I made was than even though I trained with a pack on some good hills, I was walking on paths and dirt roads. I didn't do enough of the step up kind of training where you transfer a lot of weight to your thighs. I made it but it could have been better. Don't know if I will ever get to go again, but my routine training now includes more of that kind of exercise. Have started in a bicycle spinning class at the local Y. That is one kick azz workout.
The walking ax that the outfitter supplied was one of the most important pieces of equipment on the trip. It enabled you to take some of the weight off the legs.

Battue

Agreed, Bowjack, you're on fire! I've heard it said by one of the gun writers that no one ever does a goat hunt twice. Looks like you and I are the exceptions. You didn't state how old you are, I'm 47, and starting to feel it.
Don

I'm convinced that the best workouts for that type of thing is as close as you are going to get to actually doing it when at home.
The biggest problem is being consistant and not over training. That means work up to whatever you can do, but don't, whatever you do, push it too fast or too hard. Tendions and ligaments do not get stronger nearly as fast as muscles do. No death marches. Doesn't do anything but put you at risk for a serious injury. 70% of the people that take up running to get in shape, stop doing it before the end of the first year due to injuries to their legs. Too much, too fast. They start out running/walking a mile or so. But in two months they are running 2-4 miles on pavement. The they push even more. I've seen it over and over.
Follow the federal food guidlines. Especially the original ones. That includes lots of quality carbs.

I'd look hard for some kind of long slope, with rough ground, not a smooth trail or road and walk that. Do it for a while w/o a pack then gradually start off with 15-20 lbs.
Do it for an hour or more every other day. Wear your boots and socks.
That idiot you had for a sheep guide was a mistake. He easily could have pushed you into an injury or even a fatal accident. I pray you don't put up with that attitude again.
Best of luck. E

Haha, actually you guys might not be totally alone, my buddies dad I believe has now gone on two. He shot a goat in AK in like 2005 and then just this past fall he went. His new baby was actually born while he was on the hunt, he's probably still in the doghouse for that. He did get a second goat though. I believe he's in his late forties, too.

Scorpion,
I saw in another post that you just graduated college, congratulations. But, I wish you would realize that 47 is not "late 40's", it's more like early to mid 40's.
Ha, Ha,
Don
PS my mother-in-law retired to West Yellowstone from a lifetime in Georgia, and is making it just fine. She's not a hunter, works in that Wolf/Grizz Center in West. Wish I could go too! Good luck.

Your still a pup.


Battue

docdb,

I'll be 56 when I go on my next goat hunt this September. When I booked my first goat hunt in 05 I hadn't been on a hard backpack hunt since my last elk hunt over ten years earlier. I knew it was going to be tough and getting in shape for it would be a challenge. I must say it was all of that, more like life changing to better explain it. I was determined though and once I made it back from my first goat hunt no worse for wear I couldn't wait to go on my next.

I wrote a recap of my second goat hunt along with some pictures from that and my first hunt on another web site forum if anyone cares to read about it. It gives an idea what type of country Mt goats live in and how difficult they can be to get to for those that haven't hunted goats before and are considering a hunt for them.


http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=054803

Actually, doc, I haven't graduated yet, still got another year or two! I can only wish though! Whether 47 is late or mid forties, I still consider that far from being an old geezer! I know quite a few guys past 50 that can put my butt in the dust as far as conditioning goes.

I am 40 and still am quite active between backpacking, hunting, and bicycling(road and mountain)

My joints don't do quite as well these days, but I actually am stronger physically and much stronger mentally than I was when I was a young whipper snapper of 25!

Since were putting out the numbers-did my first goat hunt last year at 63-almost busted my azz. Would love to go again. Just may, but better do it soon. Will go slower if I am fortunate enough to do it again.

Battue

63 and goat hunting?
My hat is off to you, sir.

I only hope I can do likewise when I am in my 60's!!!

Cut that sir stuff!! Makes me think I MAY be old!!!

Battue

Heck, I'm 49 and kind of think I'll hit mid life this Nov when I turn 50....

Dober

Here's a picture to get you motivated. After being dropped off on a glacier lake my guide and I had a five and a half hour climb up the slope on the right of the photo. That got us to the spot where we set up camp. We still had an hour or two climb after that before we started to reach the area the goats were in though. It was every bit as steep as the picture indicates and to make matter worse it rained for a good portion of our ascent.

Here's 2003, I'm 15lbs lighter, and in much better shape. This last weekend makes me think I'm not doing enough!

One thing that has been mentioned on previous threads is the Crossfit program.

I think one thing about humpin' hills, swimming or roofing houses, is that so many forgotten muscles get used. Crossfit is different because the workouts ALWAYS change, so everything gets worked. I've never heard of anybody trying it and not complaining about how intense it is.

Personally, I think if you have a picture of yourself on top of a mountain, you're in shape. <g>


Travis

VERY nice picture, color me jealous.

Personally, my training last year consisted mostly of death marches. I backpacked at least two thirds of the weekends between May and hunting season, under the guise of 'hunting' or 'scouting'. Other than that, I train like Greenhorn and Brad. I felt it got me in appropriate shape. How intense of mountains are there in Georgia?

Good luck.

Carl

I don't think there is a 5000ft peak in the state.....we can do steep, just not for very long!
Don

Probably nothing conditions one better than actually simulating what we are preparing for. I live in flatland too so as close as I could come was strapping on a sixty pound backpack and make trips up and down the high scool bleachers. Which just happen to be across the road from my house. We have all heard stories of marathon runners that fell out on a mountain hunt once they threw a pack on and started climbing. The guide I had in Alaska said he had a sheep client last year that was a body builder. He said to look at him he was in great physical condition but it became evident that he hadn't trained enough for the mountains. Each day he got worse and was unable to keep up. The hunter had a miserable time and went home empty handed.

My guide and I spot for goats in the Coast Mountains BC 2005.

Here's my disclosure, I'm overweight, but loosing and active.

I've never been goat hunting, but we have some nice rugged mountains up here that tire anyone out. I try to hike a few days a week around the house on logging roads with the dog, I'd estimate about 1000 feet of elevation change in the 2.5 miles I do.

When I'm on the road traveling, I bring a very light pack and put my computer and files in it while I'm on the treadmill - I fluxuate the incline from 9.5 to 5 and know I'm working.

My take is you're already ahead of the game and keeping your head in it, you'll be fine.

Mike.

I trained even harder for my sheep hunt last year than I did for my goat hunts the two previous years. I had some circumstances come up where I was unable to keep up my training a couple weeks prior to my hunt. I feel partially because of that I injured my back during my hunt. Fortunately I was able to borrow the guides rifle and take a ram while I was still able to. If nothing else I learned a valuable lesson to keep the conditioning up right until the time to go no matter what.

Good photos guys!

Very inspiring postings on this subject. I certainly have tons of respect for those of you who have been able to drop the weight.

5 years ago I was a fat 268 lbs and WAS on a CPAP machine due to sleep apnea. Having two older brothers pass away plus my burning desire to flyfish the remote regions of the Windrivers got me on the treadmill. I started with NO weight and huffed and puffed for 5 minutes. Several months later of persistance led me to carrying 60-70 lbs and having the treadmill bed up to a 20 % incline and hiking for 35 minutes in order to keep my heart rate up in the aerobic zone. If you haven't heard of the book, "Younger Next Year", it's a great book written to help those folks over 50years old. It was referred to me by a customer in AZ and it has helped me drop the weight and feel younger again. Also, I use Probars as a meal replacement, I have dropped the bread out of my diet and also the desserts. I dropped 11 inches off of my waist and decreased MY weight by 60 lbs to 208 right now. I am still on the treadmill 5-6 days a week in the mornings. Charlie J.

Charlie, I have the UTMOST respect for guys that make a decision like yours and DO IT! AWESOME!

yep kudos from AK as well Charlie


that's gettin it done, no matter how you slice it


cracked rib is pizzin me off, time to buck up and suffer through

Good for you Charlie! My hat is off to you as well!

+ 1

Good for you, Charlie!

Charlie, nice job, now we just have to get you a decent backpack!
Don
PS in case you didn't know, my tongue is firmly in cheek (Dan is on my speed dial)

That's very impressive, Charlie! Congratulations!

Congratulations Charlie! Nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come!

Training is half the fun, anyhow...

Sadist

Vigil- NICE! Congrats!

Keep the pics coming fella's, you might just get me motivated to work out tomorrow...

Nothing inspires me more than imaging myself back in goat country. I often work out on the elliptical while watching video of my past mountain hunts or those of others. I have asked my wife to have my ashes spread in a place like this when I die.

Maybe this will keep ya on the couch and convince ya that backpacking ain't all its cracked up to be.

Nah... I've found that talking about trips like that are much more fun after the fact than during!