Hey Guys,

Okay....yea....another sleeping bag thread...sorry!!

I am looking for one of the last peices of 'kit' that I need to complete my backcountry hunting gear. I'm planning on possibly doing a week long sheep hunt into the Willmore WIlderness in Alberta in late August or early September.

I hunt sheep in Aug/Sept and the occasional later trips into Sept come about. Temps are usually around freezing at night and sometimes can be colder later in the season of course.

I have a MH Phanton 32 that I havent really put through the paces yet. I also have a Ti Goat bivy that I have never used but plan on in the future. In the past I've carried a heavy big synthetic bag that did not compress well but was very warm.

What I'm looking for is a bag that carries nicely in my pack and doesnt weigh a ton. I want something that will keep me warm when its below freezing and keep me dry. I have a Hilleberg Akto tent as well. Right now my big dilemma is to stay with a down bag and use the bivy as an outer to keep it dry in the tent, or go with a good synthetic and never worry about getting a bit 'damp'.

Any thoughts? I'd like to spend less than $400 if possible.....

The Kifaru Slick bag has crossed my mind as well as buyin a Marmot Helium or a WM bag if I go with a down bag. Really having a hard time convincing myself to go with a down bag only for the 'wet' issues on a week long trip that could arrise. Any comments??

Sorry for the long winded post....lol

Seems the Kifaru Slick would be a great one. I hope to add one this year as well.

You�re in the Province that has an outstanding Sleeping bag manufacturer check out integral design bags http://www.integraldesigns.com They have a bag for your needs. Failing that (cost issue) go to the local army surplus store and get yourself a Canadian forces down sleeping bag system for $200 the inner bag will more then handle the temps you are talking about.

This is what I'm gonna do. Seems like the 20 degree bag at 2lbs would work for you.

I use a down bag with gore dryloft. I used it guiding for 2 sheep seasons and had no problems as you hear with down. I would be hesitent with down on a coastal hunt, but not what you describe. I like down because I could compress it down to the size of a vollyball and it is a -20 rated long bag. It is a MEC brand bag. A bag like this may be overkill for an early season hunt, but I am a cold sleeper so I choose to lug this around. A few years back I was in the Wilmore in August and we got 2' of snow and -10 at night, so you never know.

If I was buying another bag I would choose down again.

Just me, but if I'm humping the tent, I don't want to carry the bivy unless I intend to bivy out or carry the bivy as part of my daypack load.
I've got the MH Phantom 0 degree bag. It's less than three pounds in a sylnylon dry bag. Being black, you can dry any minor dampness out in the sun pretty quick. The bag beads up ordinary condensation very well. It's overkill for merely freezing nights but I find it comfortable from unseasonably warm (mostly lying on the bag) to well below zero ( hat, down jacket , long underwear etc.)It's very comfortable to me without extra clothes to about the rated temp. I'd say the rating is accurate.

I just think a bivy bag is overkill if tent condensation is your only moisture challenge.

I was reading Tony Russ's book on Alaska sheephunting a couple of week's ago and remember him recommending a ?15-20 degree synthetic bags. That's a much wetter climate though.
I see where the price of the MH 0 phantom has crept up over your budget but I'd wait to see if the REI member sale discount applies.

I have hunted sheep for the last 12 years with a synthetic bag and I decided to get a down Marmot Helium EQ bag last year, I hunted mid september with it in temperatures that dropped well below freezing. I would not take this bag back in on another sheep hunt for the sole reason that you will not dry off one bit in this bag, if you go in it slightly damp from sweat or moisture that is exactly how you are going to come out of it. I have slept in a synthetic bag wet and come out nearly all dry, when out on a mid to late sheep hunt, that can be the difference between a very miserable to worse night or a fairly comfortable one. I am not saying that I do not like the bag, I am saying it has its uses and for me that is not on a sheep hunt. If you do decide to go down, make sure you have a good sleeping pad. Take it for what it is worth.

Yup! What he said!!!! I take a piece of polar fleece as well. If it gets too hot in my bag, I just open it up a bit and leave the polar fleece over me. I too hunt sheep in Aug. so know where you're coming from. Polar fleece is very light weight & folds up into a very small package.
Bear in Fairbanks

I have looked at the Integral Designs bags and they are on my list as well...just gotta find a good light bag that suits my needs....so tossing around various ideas.....

Thanks so far!!

Might want to check out a Wiggy's bag.

I really like the Kifaru slick bag as well. That said I have a hard time pulling the trigger on one because the montbell superstrech burrows are such a good deal. Light and wont break the bank.

I have been taking my wiggys for about the last couple of years though. Its a little bulky but I trust that bag.

I'll be hunting the Willmore too...but later in the year (late Sept/early October.

I'll be taking my Western Mountaineering Apache GWS.

In my opinion, the two very best sleeping bags for your purposes include:

http://www.valandre.com/us/bags/shock.htm

http://www.westernmountaineering.co...20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=51

The Apache is too tight in the shoulders for my preference (59" girth).

I like something in the 62 - 64" shoulder girth. I use a Western Mountaineering Versalite Super. My wife uses the same bag. Perfect for 3+ season mountain use.

I will be buying the slick 0 degree bag this year for my sheep hunts. I have been using a down bag for the past 6 years, and no complaints about the bag except that it is not quite warm enough when you get into sept nights. So the slick bag it will be - light, compressible, and on cold november deer hunts I will just slide the down bag inside of it.

Just gonna add one more thing and am not trying to hijack this thread but......
The next time we go for sheep which is in Aug. 2010, on the north side of the Brooks, we're gonna go high & stay there. No stove, tent, sleeping bags. We'll be siwashing it and to stay warm at night, we'll use the insulated pants & jacket sold by Integral Designs. These are quite expensive but outside shells are the same material as their sleeping bags and the insulation is primaloft. It'll be lighter & less bulky than toting around a sleeping bag. Justa thought in case anyone's thought in those terms. Bear in Fairbanks

hope you'll give us an evaluation after doin so BearnFBKS


I want out of my clothes and snuggled into my bag for a good warm restful nights sleep when sheep hunting

pard uses a 3/4 ID big wall bag and wears his Primaloft jacket with it. he uses a better pad than I do so we come out about the same on weight for a sleep system

am sure your plan is doable, but I feel the good rest is important for me to hunt well and in worst case scenario like the Siberian Steamroller of a few years ago and tentbound for 9 days I really enjoyed (maybe appreciated would be a better word) being able to lounge in my bag.

lotsa ways to skin a cat, interested how yours turns out for you.

I too like to get high and stay high, guess it reminds me of high school. LOL

I gotta say...I am looking hard at a nice quality down bag for the size/weight that they compress to. A nice WM bag or a Marmot Helium or something would keep a guy warm and compress nice and small for carrying.....

I just dont know if I worry too much about condensation and a wet down sleeping bag or if the higher quality bags have a good enough 'water resistant' coating on them....

I recently used a MH Phantom 15 at -15 F with clothing, so that would be another choice for a down bag.

I just got a Vlandre' Shocking Blue for a review and I am very impressed. Expensive, but this just might be the best bag I have ever seen.

Does Barney's carry anything unique in a sleeping bag? Or are the bags name brands you can get in the lower 48.

Any other comments or suggestions? Still having that down/synthetic debate in my head but kinda tossing around anything I can think of that packs small, is lightweight, keeps a guy warm and dry, and would work in all types of weather.....

Also thinkin if I go down whether I need to keep a bivy outerbag or just stick with the bag and I'll be fine.....

The synthetic I'm guessing wouldnt need a bivy on it?

One of the most miserable nights I ever spent was in a wet synthetic. Synthetics bags will get wet, just that they'll still offer insulation value when the bag is soaking (unlike down). That doesn't mean you won't be miserable! Synthetics require "less" care and thought than down, but, above timeberline, you're still going to need at least a bivy no matter what you chose if you want to be safe.

I like down because it's compressible and lighter. I've slept well in driving rain and snow above Timberline in my Versalite snug in the little Black Daimond Firstlight I use. The combo together weighs 5lbs and is a heck of a lot safer and more comfortable than a 3 lb synthetic bag and a 1.5 lb bivy IME.

I don't know a thing about your Hillegerg, but if it's a tent I'd use it with a down bag.

Yep Brad...sorry for the confusion...

The Hilleberg is a one man tent and I'm kinda curious about whether or not to use a bivy INSIDE the tent with either a down bag or a synthetic bag.

But ya....I'm not the type of guy to run around with JUST a bivy and enjoy the comforts of a tent. Just trying to find the perfect bag for inside that tent....

Barney's are ID bags.
Go to Moontrail and find an ID bag on sale.
They have the high end ones as well. You could also get a WM or
Feathered Friends. I am afraid with the downturn in the economy that we might lose both ff and WM.

Sincerely,

Thomas

I sure hope not. Ill be doing my part and picking up a new WM Alpinlite soon.

I've got nothing good to say for my 0* Slick bag. I took it to SE this October for all kinds of weather. I usually get in the thing wet, taking off only my boots. I wake up dry and ready to go. With that said, I just love down, and would not hesitate to do it all in my WM Kodiak SDL. Down just feels better. When I handle or get in the Slick bag, it just doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling, but it darn sure kept me warm.
Don

Thanks Doc.....I'm assuming you meant you've got 'nothing BUT good to say' about your Slick bag...

Any pics of how small it packs when you have it in a compression bag?

I am lookin hard right now at the WM bags and the Marmot Helium as two down bags to consider.....

Rack, IMO/E for a few extra bucks WM bags are better overall than Marmot. The Marmot's are nice, but the WM's are another couple notches up in quality.

Rackmastr, I'm just one more opinion but using a bivy in a tent isn't something I'd do. Unless it was floorless and the bivy was my ground cloth.

I use bivy's a lot when the bugs are frozen and I'm trying to go light, but there are a lot of times when a bivy can greatly contribute to a wet bag vs keeping it dry.

On that subject it's pretty clear that there are some big gaps on the forum in real woods experience and because of that I'm hesitant to say to much about it but I sometimes think the dangers of down getting wet are overstated for most of our uses.

Thanks olypen....

Thats kinda the never ending battle for me.....with the down vs synthetic. I really want something that packs light and compresses nice and small, yet something I dont have to worry one lick about in the field......

Holy cow Rackmastr, I sure did misspeak myself.....typo city!
That Slick IS A GREAT BAG.
Don

I would love to know what sizes you guys who run synthetic can compress your bags to in your packs.....

I think the 'room' thing in my pack is the most important factor right now.....

Rack,
I've always liked down over synthetic. Brad is right! Wet is wet no matter what the composition is. I take the precaution and use a dry bag for the down bag when I'm away from my Hilleberg Akto.

Bigwhoop,

I think I'd carry the sleeping bag in a dry-bag no matter what, so sounds like you are running a pretty similar system to what I'm considering...

In your Akto, do you get any condensation issues that get your bag wet, or do you find that you're pretty set?

I know what you mean about the compression of down....thats a VERY attractive feature.....

Rack,
Not so far. I used my Akto for a 5 day elk hunt in northern CO..
Temps at night were in the 20's. Now that wasn't an extreme mountain sheep hunt either. I think if a guy wanted to use a lightweight waterproof overbag to be absolutely safe, that would be ok. The overbag could be used to keep other clothing items dry while you are away from the tent.
Now I used a piece of Tyvek for my tent footprint. Why not a piece to cover your bag at night? I'm pretty handy with a sewing machine and could make a Tyvek overbag. Hmmm.......

Rack,

Modern bags are very good when it comes to condensation.

Last summer, my wife and I slept in a solo single wall tarp tent, and we had a 70 lb lab in the shelter with us.

I had a poor choice for a tent site, in a grassy meadow because I wanted the view. When we awoke the next morning, the ouside of the tent was covered with frost and the inside was very wet. Because of the small size of the shelter our bags were against the side walls and apeared to be soaked, but 20 minutes in the sun and they were bone dry. The DWR was wetted but the down stayed dry. Of course, I much prefer to keep my bag totally dry but this shows how well the bag shell protects the insulation.

Condensation is much more of a concern from the inside with body moisture passing thru, but generally unless you are out for multiple days in real cold weather this isn't a big issue.

I have experienced more condensation with a bivy than without. I would pass on the bivy when using a tent.

Bumped Up for Duk Dog......

Any other comments are more than welcome as I'm still considering all my options out there!!!

I know I said earlier in this thread that I was going to buy a slick bag, but I found a great deal on a new marmot helium -9C for $349 Cdn. 850+ down and weighs less than 2 pounds. Should work perfect for sheep and goats.

Trevor~

A bag that must be considered in this "Ultimate Sheep Hunting Sleeping Bag" thread... has to be some bags in the Valandre line....

check them out..... awesome stuff.

Mark

What??? No love for the all great and powerful Wiggy's bag??






(Runs for cover.....)

Not in this lifetime.......

Hi Rackmaster, check out Taigaworks.ca from Vancouver ( thousand and one nights ) looks like a very nice down bag either 700 or 800 fill weight, you can also get the bag with water resistant material

Eric

Trying to decide between two bags now.....

The Integral Designs North Twin and the ID Renaissance

Both are the same bag construction, same design, just one is a 20d bag and the other is a 10d bag.....of course with that comes a bit of weight and a bit of bulk difference.

Thoughts on the best choice? I have a -30C bag for really cold weather stuff. This bag will be used in summer to early fall (possibly end of Septemberish). Am I better off with the 20d bag and a liner at times, or the 10d bag for all use?

http://www.integraldesigns.com/prod...CFTOKEN=45601115&mainproducttypeid=5

http://www.integraldesigns.com/prod...CFTOKEN=45601115&mainproducttypeid=1

I'd get the 20d bag. You can always layer in the bag with the clothes that you brought. I've used a 20d bag down to near zero without an insulating pad with clothes and a hat on. Works for me...

I think I'd get the 20...... Integral makes amazing stuff!!!

Mark

Are those ID bags full zip or 3/4?

If I was going to hunt/backpack in wet climates, I would sure give those ID bags a hard look.

And the Want-To-Be's keep Wanting-To-Be...

I'll just keep churning out Glacier Hunter Sleeping Bags!

Taylor

"And the Want-To-Be's keep Wanting-To-Be..."

Must be talking about Wiggys huh?

I was wondering when he would show up and post a reply that had us running for our debit cards.........or not...grin

Last year I purchased the ID Sierra Series XPD bag rated for -10C with the Pertex Endurance coating. A very comfortable and well constructed bag that will last me the rest of my sheep hunting days. Did a lot research and this one came out on top. Forget the stuff made in China (Marmot Helium, etc) if you want a bag that will last. Both my buddies bought the same bag and we're all smiles!

He is Ed but don't be to hard on ole Taylor, the pain meds from him breaking his leg makes him a little crazy sometimes!
You seem to have a world of experience with backpacking gear and such, what's your take on the Wiggy's bag other than weight? Not trying to be a smartass, it's an honest question sir.

Dont rule out the Marmot Helium's guys, the one I have is not even the IQ and I sat in the bathtub with half my body in it and let the shower rain down on it for almost 20 minutes with no seepage, not even at the seams. It weighs less than 2 lbs, is rated to 15 degrees and compresses down to 3/4 the size of a loaf of white bread. It's not badly priced either.

http://marmot.com/spring_2009/equipment/sleeping_bags/ultralight/helium_reg/info/details

I have 2 different bags that I take depending on where I'm going and how long I'm going for. For my way up high,dedicaited Sheep and Goat hunts ,I take my North Face Cat's Meow. For me it's been a great bag,kept me warm,stayed dry,fairly light and packable.

The other is the Wiggy's FTRSS system bags. I dont carry all 3 of them with me, but I usually take 2. Either the inner and most outer,or the middle and the outer. I figure I can safely cover all temo ranges with either combo.

This is what has worked for me anyways...................

I like the Wiggys 0 degre bag I have, but I dont backpack it anywhere, that [bleep] like 5 lbs!

Yep!!! 4 1/2 according to wife's scale which she says is 10 lbs too heavy

I still take it, but not on the trips where we go way high, and when I do take it I skimp on other "stuff".

Yeah its my river boat/atv hunt bag, only use it when something carries it for me. Its a warm comfy son bttch though!

Sho nuff

Especially when you use the 2 bags together,kept me comfy down to 40 below one 20A moose hunt years ago. Talk about a cold SOB!!!

AkMtnHntr,

I think Wiggys are fine. Too heavy for me to ever consider backpacking but others carry them.

I am a big down fan. I never had a problem keeping my bag dry. I always believed in what Cliff Jacabson, the famed arctic river canoeist said that if you can't keep your sleeping bag dry you need to work on your outdoor skills.

If I lived in SE Alaska, I might reconsider but for the Rocky Mountains, down has worked for me for 40 years.

I've used a Marmot Helium and Titanium Goat bivy for the last 4 years sheep hunting. I love the Mamot bag, it has been great from Aug. 10th hunts throught the end of Sept. here in Alaska. I love the light weight of the the down bag and it has kept me plenty warm and dry. I haven't tried the bivy that much as I carry it around in case I have to spend the night out. Both times I have I used it without a sleeping bag in early Aug and it has been great. I love the compact package and lightweight that the Marmot offers and have found no drawbacks to date, though I do take care to make sure it doesn't get wet. I also own a Western Mountaineering bag and think that their bags are top notch as well. I've used that one for the last 5 years on windy wet Kodiak Island and have yet to have a problem with that one either.

Understand and thanks for the reply Ed.

Rack, I've got both the Renaissance and the North Twin. When I camp in the mountains I use the Renaissance. If I were heading to Grande Cache during sheep season, I'd likely take the North Twin, 'just in case'... I hate being too warm and sleep in Smartwool long underwear. A silk liner supposedly increases the warmth factor by a few degrees, but I've yet to try one. I doubt you'd freeze in long underwear and a liner with the Renaissance, though. Good to -10 for me.

I don't know if ID bags are the ULTIMATE, but for the price they cannot be beat.

Great price is right!!! I ordered my Renissance for $262 CDN shipped.....it should be here this week.

It was a tough decision on the NT vs the Renissance....I'm thinking I made a good choice and should be flexible enough for all sorts of weather...

Trev

Get the size 'small' Kifaru stuffsac for it and you've got yourself a heck of a set-up.

Around $45 bucks.

Is that what you have for your Renissance?

Any pics of how it fits and how small it compresses in the 'small' one?

Finley and I have followed the same path.. Wiggy's is a great bag but you have to compress it and it still takes up a lot of room in your pack.. The Marmot H. is light, warm and it packs down to the size of a small loaf of bread.. Big Plus...
AK

I'm in Red Deer for a few days but I can take some pics when I get home.