I'm lookin at getting one of these two, but endless research leaves me with that Ford vs Chevy feeling.

I'm not concerned with money or costs, rather I'd prefer quality and user friendly. Likey to go with either the 6 or 8 man, and with a stove. Undecided on a floor or no floor. Opinions on these tents?

have only used the tipi, if you're used to double wall tents might want to spring for the liner.

with the 8 man, 3 guys is starting to get cozy, I prefer it with two guys, then it's a palace.

the other part of the equation is probably irrelevant to anyone but me, but Patrick Smith has earned my respect, I believe he's a good man.

if I'm spending coin for good gear, it tickles me to give it to someone I can like and admire. YMMV

I've heard the Ti Goat was an inspiration (read copy cat) from some guys who were originaly at Kifaru, but I don't know for certain. Curious if they improved on the tipi, or spun off with a watered down product.

I've heard good on P Smith as well. Nothing wrong with hearing that echoed again, +1

+1 on Mr Smith,from what I heard T I Goat makes a good product ,but TI tipis only have one door so it would be harder to vent.They don't have a liner avail.and that alone would be a deal breaker for me

Nothing to add on the choice, but I can confirm that Kifaru is top notch. I had a problem with pack fit--belt sliding down with HEAVY (70+) loads and called the company to ask if I needed a smaller belt. Lady said she'd put someone on who could help me. Patrick picked up and walked me through how to solve the problem. Nice to have that kind of support.

I don't know about the Ford/Chevy thing but I can highly recommend Kifaru -- the company and the people behind it especially the owner.

i can not speak for the ford vs chevy either , but since i have 3 tipis i do have some expierence them-all good.j
the floor thing is way over rated. carry a small tarp or tyvek to throw down if ya need it[i do] a piece of drop cloth is very light and compact also for this. i cant say enough about the floor thing is way over rated - once you go floorless you will understand. dirty boots mean nothing just tromp in water will soak in to the floor and disappear- heck you can take a shower in a tipi and sleep in it that nite. as for water running under i am sure it can but if you choose wisely it wont. bugs are the worst i worry about and so far i have not had a problem. even in the boundry waters and alaska.

liners- to each his own. i had a liner for the 6 and sold it. with the 6 you do touch tipi some standing and dressing. with 8 you can stand and dress and not touch it. we can bring in saddles and gear in the 8 and it is crowded for 2.
with the 12, 2 with saddles and panniers are no problem. the guys that go with me want a liner for the 12.

they do sweat indide and 2 doors will help dry them and the second door is used to enter.

I just love tent maker's ratings. An 8-man tent is comfortable with 2, and crowded with 3. Why in the hell do they label it as an 8-man?

No option for a liner on the TI Goat. If I had the money for either, I'd get the Kifaru with a liner.

The ratings are based on mountaineering standards. They aren't leading anybody astray. They tell you how many people can sleep in the tent, not how many can use it as a house. If you notice they usually throw in the explaination something akin to "sleeps 6; but, it's ideal for two and their gear".

Both companies are great to deal with. I can only speak to the kifaru as far as tipis go and my 8-man is awesome. You could easily get 8 people in there if you had to, but the 8-man is more suited for 4-5. We've had 5 guys for 4+ days at a time and it was fine.

The liner is a must and we bring a small tarp cut out for the stove up and then some tyvek to cover the outer areas not covered by the tarp. With large stove, entire tent, pegs, liner etc..... it was about 6 lbs a piece between 3 guys to carry it up this year.... It was a castle for 3.

I can highly recomend the Kifaru 8 man with the large stove. Will be headed to Kodiak Island for 5th time with it in 3 days. I wasn't sure about the floorless design at first but I love it now. I have always used it for 2 guys and all of our gear + firewood inside. Has worked out great. Stood up to some nasty weather and it sure feels good to get warm and dry at the end of everyday. Like mentioned before...the liner is a must! The fabric is 100% waterproof so none gets in and none gets out! Not a problem with the liner though, you'll stay dry. Heres a pic from my caribou hunt this las Sept., everyone who has stayed in it loves it.

There is a new shelter available this January...the Hilleberg Altai. Sleeps 8, I think, and has vertical walls, which I really like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrI3ac-ZKaU

Hilleberg has been testing them for awhile now.

I'll be testing one out in the snow in January, and plan to use it in the Wind River Range in Wyoming this August, above timberline.

Complete packaged weight with optional poles and stakes is 11 lbs, for the polyester fabric version.

+1 on customer service with Kifaru. I had an adjustment problem with my Late Season pack and they told me to come on over since I live in the Denver area. I show up and Patrick himself comes out explains the adjustment process, then adjusts the pack as we chew the fat about the upcoming hunting season. I spent close to an hour talking guns, hunting,backpacking, etc. and he never gave me the impression that he felt that I was impinging on his valuable time. That type of customer service has made me a Kifaruite for life!

Liner - check
Floorless - big check

You guys with Kifarus - are you happy with the Kifaru stove and that roll up pipe?

I haven't had anything to compare it to, but yes, I've been very happy with mine so far. The roll up pipe works awesome. The stove seems to work great too. It let's a good bit of air in due to all of the pieces so damper control is a little tough to manage, but for how light it is and how small it packs up, it seems to work pretty damn good. I have the large stove and that thing will get my 8-man crankin'. It's tough to damp it down enough to make it last for more than a couple hours on a full load (and keep it from going out), but to take the edge off at night and in the morning it is excellent.

This year, we were in 6 degree weather and deep snow....I couldn't imagine not having it.

You bring up a good point - stove size. 8 man w/large stove in 6 degree temps worked well. I'm wondering if the medium stove would have worked for ya in those temps?

Maybe on stove size selection for an 8 man, bigger is better ... much like horsepower LOL


Thanks for the input, gents!

we use the medium stove I believe in our 8 man.

it's plenty for my needs. I don't really want it so hot I'm in a t'shirt and skivvies. others like it, but I don't, but it sure does feel good to be warm.

Kifaru tipis are amazing. I have really come to love the floorless design. And man when the weather gets bad the stove sure comes in handy. Neat how it can pack down so small, but yet work so well. I would agree it doesnt get anybetter than Kifaru costumer service.

check out GoLite Shangri-La. Not as bullet proof as the Kifaru but much less expensive.

Bob, thanks but I'm not looking to pinch pennies.

I'm pretty well sold on the Kifaru. Was leaning this way when I started the thread, but wanted to hear from the guy with Ti Goats, which there seems to be few of.

Thanks to the gents who've posted.

What's the bulletproof issue with the SL? Just curious. Haven't used mine enough to say one way or the other.

Another fan of the Kifaru - I have both a Ti-goat stove and a K-stoves.
In my 8 man I run a Kifaru med. with a liner.... and it is the shiznit.



I would go to a large stove if I was using it in mainly colder (15 and below) temps. JMHO

In my Super Tarp - I went Ti-goat cylinder for shaving some weight - The whole thing with stove is 3 pounds ...

Here's a six man on e-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kifaru-6-Man-Ti...tZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439b711eb6

Bitt- How's the supertarp retain heat with that large of an opening, or do you have an annex?

Yes, I have the annex - in that pic the door is just tied open.
It heats up very easily and gets plenty hot in there but there is nothing to hold the heat once the stove goes out.
The front with the stove port and the door side are the annex. It is nice that don't have to pack it but most of the time I bring it and the stove.

Thanks! I posted the question before reading the other similar thread. I'm really thinking I like that set up! Wonder if there's anyway for the K-folks to put a loop on the front peak so that it could be tied to a tree and not have to use the front pole...

it already has a loop over each pole position

Thanks!

Not sure if anyone is still watching - but a couple of more questions....
You guys who like the liner, why? I have a sil-nylon tent and am familar with the condensation issue - so is the liner just to keep you dry when you brush up against the wall - or does the moisture actually rain down on you? I suspect its a bit warmer as well???

Anyone used the ti-goat venting system? Bottom to top venting systems can be quite effective in these shapes - there are no pics of it and Kifaru doesn't spec one (but they have two doors) Just checking to see if/how it works?

FYI - another option for a floor I am considering - when I don't have to pack it on my back is "multi-mesh" the kind of stuff they use to tarp loads on dump/trash trucks. A tent maker here puts it in some wall tents - because the tracked in moisture drains through and it does keep down some of the dirt. I like the idea of showering inside and this would allow the water to drain through and dry out pretty fast. (primarily thinking of raft trips and pack animal trips here - I think the floor alone would weight the same as the tent and stove combined) Thoughts?

The liner does stop you from brushing up against the wet material- except the door. For that I have old arrow attached to the pull so you don't have to get on you knees and almost lay down to get the last foot or so closed or opened. The liner.... It does make it easier to heat. I can pitch the tipi with stakes as normal or about 6"'s up is another guyout point which you could use for extra tie downs or loosen the bottom edge and vent the lower section and the zipper can come down and drawn open to vent the upper. Plus the 2 door deal to cross vent. I am in the Great Nor'Wet and no venting will keep it dry like the liner here (which is absolute). The silnylon loads with water and when the wind hits it it raining again only this time its inside. I love my liner.

The mesh floor sounds interesting. I go the light way and for a shower or by the door I lay a drybag down to stand on to keep from getting muddy. I'll look forward to your review.



In warm weather 2 doors cross venting is the ticket...

Thanks Bitt:

Like the original post - I am still struggling between the brands, so I am trying to really focus on and understand the differences: I've kind of settled on the 8-man size thinking it would be good for 2-3 person pack in hunts and 4 person family rafting adventures. Sounds like most everyone wants a bigger one, did't hear anyone say they wished they went smaller. The Ti-goat 8 has the same footprint as the 8 man Kifaru - but slightly shorter - so its really sized between the 6 and 8 man Kirfaru. The main differences that I can see are...

1) Liner - we get precious little of that humidity here in CO - so with some moisture management and venting I can't see the condensation being that big of a problem. Also thinking that with an 8-man and typical 2 person use - you should be able to stay off the walls. I know of the humidity you speak of and I might be more worried if I camped in that more often (almost never - maybe once every 4-5 years?). A liner adds more weight - but I see the benefit of the added insulation. With the stove going - is moisture condensation still a problem, maybe with a sil-nylon tent it just can't get it out - or you have to open the top of the tent door? Maybe your moisture just re-condenses on the walls as frost after the stove goes out in the middle of the night - then rains on you in the am when you start the stove?This is a tough one....Any more experiences with condensation problems with and w/o a stove?

2) Two doors - obviously this makes venting easier. But I suspect when flow through venting is needed so are two mosquito net doors? If its that hot and that humid, almost anywhere there are going to be a bunch of bugs. In terms of access I like the idea of two doors on smaller tents, so you can get out w/o steping on your tent mate, with 200 sq. ft. in a teepee and 4 or less people you should be able to get everyone situated and still have a clear path to the door - right?

3) Weight, the weights listed are tent, pole, pegs, sack and large/medium stove respectively. (BTW the ti-goat large and the Kifaru Med are almost the same volume stove)

9 lbs. 7 oz. Ti-goat
12 lbs. 4 oz. Kifaru

So thats a fair amount less weight for the ti-goat - and really makes splitting it between 2 people "reasonable" to pack. My winter 3 person mountaineering tent weighs just over 10 lbs - and thats no-stove!

4) Stove design - they both look OK - but the titanuim ti-goat seems to be more to my likeing except for the screw-together part. You might be able to make that ti-goat more air-tight with some small woven stove gasket stuff and stove caulk. If you can get it basically air tight you should be able to get a damped down fire to last 4-6 hrs.

5) Customer service: Everyone raves about Kifaru - and that is very seldom heard these days (and worth alot!). Although no complaints either for Ti-goat - I wasn't sure we had an actual T-goat tent customer speak yet here?

The tent and stove combo coat nearly the same to me delivered. I am leaning Ti-goat but would re-consider if someone had something negative to say about them - or if more people recommended the liner in the more arid southern rockies?

I am not going to try and swing you either way.
I have both Kifaru, and TiGoat products and both are very high quality.
I have the smaller Vertex 5 and use a smaller homemade stove. It is perfect for my needs.

Here's the V-5........ (I need to get some more pic's, I keep using this one)



The stove..........(or one like it)

TX Trapper - thanks! But you guys aren't helping.....just kidding!

How do you deal with the condensation? Just live with it, does the stove dry it out, on my canvas tents a stove works wonders to dry out the tent, but thats because the water has somewhere to go, no real place to go in a si-nylon tent unless there is still some opening high up on the tent in addition to the stove pipe hole? How does the ti-goat venting system help?

How about those two guy-out points on a ti-goat? Useful? In the way? Do they somehow work with thier venting system? I think I see some of the ti-goat venting system in your pic. Is that diamond shape piece low on the tent, behind your pole the bottom vent they talk about? I suspect none of thier vents are covered in bug net, is that right?

Thanks!

The condensation just runs down and onto the ground and is absorbed.
In the larger Tipi's you can get away from the walls so no problem, the smaller one's just get a good bag w/ some wtr res. shell and also good to go. It doesn't bother me at all.
The tie-outs are just that, the do help if you need them.
Yes that is the bttm vent behind the pole. I usually just keep it closed. Mine doesn't have screen.
The stove will dry it out, I burn a candle lantern sometimes and this also helps, but again not an issue for me.
Good Luck!!!

I have the TiGoat 8. I've used it with two people on a very humid hunt in SE Alaska. The moisture travelled about two and a half to three feet up the side, so it wasn't so much that you got rained on, but instead it was gear that got put on the ground and brushed against the sides that got moist. We had three different camp sites on that hunt and the one on top of dead grass had no moisture problems, whereas the two on top of live grass did because of the greenhouse effect.

The TiGoat stove (box type) was very air tight except for when the screen got clogged and smoke backed up. I would not recommend sealing it up because then you woulnd't be able to break it back down for packing.

I had my TiGoat on Kodiak this fall and the two guy out points helped. When the winds really kicked up the sides would bow in slight and you could see the guy outs helping to stabilize them. Also, you can use the guy outs to create a sort of squared off area on the sides to tuck a cot closer to the wall. It's hard to explain, but you'll see what I mean when you set it up.

All that said, I still think I would get a liner. I didn't have to dry out very many wet clothes on either of the hunts I had the TiGoat on, but I would still want it as dry as possible inside to speed up drying. I've seen pictures of a TiGoat with a liner added and that's the route I'm going to go.

I don't own either product, I made my own to see if the heated shelter was going to work for me and it has worked so well I haven't upgraded. I've spent time in both TG and Kif tipi's and they both seemed top notch and worked very well.

I don't have any experience with a liner but condensation in mine hasen't been an issue as there is plenty of room to avoid touching the sides and once the stove gets cranked up it drys out very quickly.

Mine is an ID sil shelter (yellow) with navy blue skirt made from sil nylon sewed on. The numerous tie out points are excellent for stability and maximizing room.

I'd love a sub 3 lb heated shelter and will get one soon but full standup space (7ft) and a decent sized stove (ti goat) sure is great and throw in the mini reclining chair (about a pound) and it gets downright decadent.

Thanks all!! You have been a great help to me.

Sooo... it sounds like from those that have seen/used both products there isn't a significant difference between the two, excepting the liner, some love them, some don't see the need, kinda depends on the conditions, if you are headed more often than not to SE AK or the PacNW a liner should seriously be considered. (after watching Kifaru videos "Patrick" states that approx. 25% of tipis get liners - almost universally they go to SE AK or PacNW!)

All seem to like their stoves, and they do dry out the tent and push moisture out somehow. Kay9Cop - I wasn't thinking of gluing the stove together - just trying to affix some gasket material to one side or the other of the stove box sides - so when you assembled it the gaskets compressed and made a seal. I have used other "folding" stoves and was not impressed - they sucked so much air, you couldn't control the fire, and they just raged and went out in short order - sounds like these are better from the get-go.

Olypen - pretty crafty tent. You give me some hope that if I need to I could craft a liner for my ti-goat. BTW - anyone know what type of fabric the liners are made of? Kifaru doesn't say - but in their videos (very helpful) it appears to be something different than the 1.1oz sil-nylon the tent is made from.

The liner is a light, breatheable nylon with a water repellant finish. The liner unlike Paraglider fabric allows water vapor to pass though however the larger drops are blocked.

I have a liner for my 6 man tipi. But I hardly ever use it because the condensation is not an issue espesially when you have a stove in there. But I am also in Colorado where it is relatively dry compared to some places like Alaska.

The liner does add a little warmth I believe and makes it nice so that if you do have some condensation brushing up against the wall is no big deal.

liners are for an individule to decide. i had a liner for one of my tipis and sold it. some buds want a liner, well ya cant win em all.
the secondary effect of rain or hail hitting the outside and knocking off the condensation inside has happend to me twice. wished i had the liner then. [but would not want to carry it]
the stove will go out and when that happens the condensation will creep up the sides.

Pics of my Vertex 6.5 Tipi






[img]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/Red-Cell/P1000121.jpg[/img]

Adjustable CF center pole
[img]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/Red-Cell/DSC01241.jpg[/img]

CF tent pegs 9-3/4"
[img]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/Red-Cell/cf9487f7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/Red-Cell/65447e7f.jpg[/img]

Large Titanium Goat stove w/Ti pipe





The whole thing weighs 6.7 LBS

Red, Some really nice pic's there, also a nice pitch.
And welcome aboard. Look forward to MANY more pic's and tales:0)

Never thought of the few ounces the liners add as somethign I couldn't pack...

I want one for our paratipi too, will have to fab that one ourselves and move our stove port.

Here's my 8.5 Ti-Goat with large stove. Has worked fine in a lot of different weather from heavy rain to heavy snow. Only reason I got it instead a Kifaru was the wait time, had this one in 3 weeks.

Craig
[IMG)

Thanks Tx Trapper
Long time lurker here.
Yeah can't wait to put this shelter to the test up in the Cascades.
Glad to be here!

Rost495
I live in WA, so the moisture is unavoidable.
DJ says he's developing a liner that will work with the existing Vertex Tipi's.
Hopefully they will be available soon.

snarpezal, Awesome winter scene there with your Tipi.

Redcell - thanks for the pics - much better than the website.

I have decided on getting a Ti-goat Vertex 8 and their stove. I just like the design a bit better - but its a really tough call between them (Kifaru) there isn't a bad word out there about either.

Just got off the phone with Ti-Goat and there are some neat things in the works.

1) There is a ti-goat liner on the way! The prototype in testing and early 2010 should be available and will retro-fit current tents.

2) Tan fabric is also on its way and if the fabric mills cooperate should be an option in the Jan-Feb time frame.

3) Also a carbonfiber pole for the Vertex 8 should be available next year.

I learned that Ti-goat will sew a tent with a "sod cloth" for $50-100 extra. As I think I will be using a floor at least some of the time, I think this is a good idea. Any other opinions on a sod-cloth?

Thanks for all the info!!!

I have not been here for some time...My bad.

I think they are both good but there are a few aspects that for me give an edge to the Kifaru. This is not to say there isn't a bunch of stuff I like about Ti-Goat too.

Things I like about Kifaru.

Two doors with bug net.



Big #10 zippers.



Clothes line at the top that the optional liner attaches too. A liner is a big pro of the Kifaru system.



The stoves have an optional warming tray.




Also for no reason here is a swamp maple.

The first TiGoat tipi ever sewn has a snow skirt. Just like the older Mtn. Hardwear Kiva, and just like the old Scott tents and canvas pyramids before them. I think they should be standard on any single wall floorless shelter meant for Winter camping. It sure doesn't hurt to have them in rocky terrain either, to pile rocks on.

DJ left the ends of the skirt to fray for mine. Little tendrils to grab onto the snow. If you talk at him tell him they work well. Thanks.

Thanks Huskyrunner! Thats kind of what I was thinking, a nice snow skirt/sod cloth certainly won't hurt (less than 6 oz.) better in winter, could keep out some moisture on a bad site, might keep out some more bugs etc... Materials have changed, but there is a reason that every (good) floorless canvas wall or range tent comes with a "sod cloth". I will have to defer to your experience on the "frayed" vs. "finished" edge on this one. But it seems to me that its a good option to add.

I am not sure if this is what Huskyrunner was referring to but here is what I do. First I raise the tipi off the ground using 6 inch webbing loops. If it�s cold I may kick snow a bit over the gaps. I guess when DJ makes that liner if it drapes to the ground like the Kifaru it would do the same thing. Darn I like that Ti-goat stove in Red Cell's photo shoot.



The liner is long enough as it drops to the ground covering most gaps even without the snow.



Huskyrunner.

This is totally off topic but I think you will like it just the same.

Hey Woods! Drooling over those new Zebralights!

The sod cloth is just that and adds much integrity to the structure as well as sealing out drafts with minimal effort. You could do this w/o the cloth but you lose some tipi space. Here it is without snow piled on it.

Fine looking team! I would like to read some of your trip reports. I have been around sled teams and had friends that live the life and it is always so appealing.... but such a huge commitment I could not pull it off. My hat is of to those that can.

Sod cloth...
I shovel a little snow around the bottom of the 8 man and it is sealed - in the summer - kick a little forest duff around it and no bugs - + the liner... I have mounted so it hangs several inches on the ground. Works great and the entire liner for my 8 man (if my memory it right) sounds like it is just another 7 ozs. over just the sod cloth.

Looks good huskyrunner. I was thinking about your tipi when posting and should have known better. Guessing there is little chance of gray sky depression nor misplaced camp with that tent. I think DJ has moved away from a sod cloth with the newer shelters. I really like the removable stove jack and would be interested in what people have to say about them but guessing yours doesn�t have that. Also like that full length zipper. I am kind of glad that Ti-goat is making their shelters and stoves too. When companies compete often it�s the consumers that benefit.

The ZLs are the H501-Q5 and H501w. One has a warm tinted LED that looks more like natural light. I remember your H30 review.

This is so interesting, I am very greatful to have you experienced guys willing to share your tipi tricks. I could take a guy years to figure some of these things out on their own.

WoodsWalker - Why the webbing loops and the high pitch in winter? Why not tight to the snow?

Huskyrunnr - I never thought of flipping the "sod-cloth" to the outside? I always thought of flipping them under the tent. But I see what you mean now about adding stability and sealing up the tent.

When I talked with DJ about the sod-cloth - it wasn't that he didn't like sod-cloths anymore - it was just that it streamlined the production to remove them - and only a small portion of his tent users were slipping in floors or serious winter users. He would be glad to build them into any tent - although he really only wants to add them during the build - not as an add-on.

Can't wait to get mine.

New England is 95% rocks by volume so sometimes I am forced to move the stakes around as can�t see the rocks under the ice. The loops offer some play during pitching. Secondly it makes for a larger tipi at no extra weight. This helps offset the lost space from the liner. The loops are 6 inches and the paracord tie-offs on the stakes 1-2 so the extra 7-8 inches adds up. The liner is warm and dry to the touch but the sides, not so much once it gets very cold outside.



The liner is grounded so it kills some drafts and it turns the tipi into a double walled shelter that is warmer when the stove is running. Looking at one of my photos in this thread you will notice snow kicked over the gaps however I took the pic to show the loops so didn�t finish the job, with snow piled over the gaps it is nearly draft free. Sometimes in winter if there is litte snow and not all that much leaf litter I just ground the tipi.



During fall I forgo the liner and pitch the tipi to the ground as mostly use it for increased heating. Also nice when going more UL as I can use � a liner or none at all, which is often the case any season.



Here is the country I was hiking though before setting up that camp.

So far I'm really dig'n my Tipi.
Just got home from a trip to Ocean Shores Wa.
Lot's of people had to check it out while me and my GF were inside playing house. This older dude liked it enough to take detailed notes and asked if I would sell it to him for cost.

I said no.

WW, those #10 zippers are nice and shiny.

Mine are subdued but #8

379 I cut and pasted this from another thread I answered to a while back. I use the 12 man in the neighborhoods you are looking to raom in the fall with a four dog ti stove and it works well for me .

Here is my 2 cents, it is just my opinion thats all. I have owned a para tipi/sm stove combo now for 9 years. I have also owned the hennesy hammock and an ID tarp. I got rid of the hammock after its first trip . I slept like crap in it and woke up with killer back aches . The tarp is great when you are positive the conditions are going to be bluebird. The paratipi is my go to for when the weather can be unknown. To give you an example , my first AK trip was a caribou hunt . I flew in on a great day beautifull to be more specific. At 5 pm on day 2 the wind started and then the rain . It was recorded at Illiamna 60 mph winds gusting to 85 mph for 60 hours, sideways rain and all. I had the SST pins in and never pulled a peg or had to re adjust the tipi for the entire duration. No tears , no seperated seams , no leaks nothing at all. Its built like a brick house.I had the stove going for a while in the begining but dropped the pipe when it really was pouring. I would go anywhere in it.

As far as set up when you are in it . I may do it a little different then some others but it works for me . With 2 people , I put the foot box of your sleeping bags at the rear of the tipi as far as they will go . This gets me behind the stove so to say. I don't have a proble hitting the walls this way either. I have our packs at your head near the door with the opening facing you so you can root around in the pack if you need to . I keep my wood for the stove either behind the stove or along side. I find this works for us. Going solo you will have more room than you need and it will be comfortable . You can cant the stove pipe quiet a bit to one side if you need to and it still burns fine. The small stove can cook you out of the tipi if you make it happen but it is not a super lung burn time ( this is how it was designed) . I was meant to knock the chill off you and to cook on and it does that well . It was not designed to be an all night burn.

I also have a 12 man that I use as a base camp set up with a 4 dog ti stove. That stove will burn longer because of its size and more airtight design but it does not fold up like the Kifaru stoves. Tons of room in that thing , nice to stand up and put your britches on and stretch in the am. But thats another story you asked about the paratipi and that has been my experience with it. I will never buy a tent with a floor in it ever agian after using these things. JMHO others mileage may vary

This is a great thread!!!

I plan on drawing a late season (November) bighorn tag next year and will be doing the hunt with one friend at all times, and would like room for 2 if needed. I need it no bigger than that. Three would be the MAX that would be sleeping inside it.

Temps can get VERY cold in Nov in the mountains (-20 or -25C) and I'm not sure if the Kifaru and stove will be up to the task. I'm looking at a liner and a stove of course, but not sure which size I'm going with yet. Something tells me 6-man would be about right?

Size and weight is important as well...so trying to find that good 'balance'. Also not sure what size stove I'll go with but this thread is helping!!

Dean, thanks. I've seen that post of yours more than once over the years, and do trust your word.

Since starting this thread, I've pulled the trigger on an 8 man Kifaru w/large stove. It arrived last week, the same day we got 18 inches of Obama snow, so it will be awhile before I can set it up and test it.

I much appreciate everyones pics, posts, and opinions. Thanks gents!

18" of snow is the perfect scenario for testing that puppy out. Get out there and show us a pic of a red stovepipe.

After -10, it doesn't matter if its degrees C or F... Its friggin COLD

Rackmastr,

I have had a Kifaru 8 man at -13F (-25 C.) The thermometer hanging on the clothes line hit 138 degrees F before opening the door.

It did have a liner.

Six man would be a good choice.

Cool man! Six man with a liner is about what I thought....

A medium stove you think is the best choice too?

How small would a stove and 6-man tipi/liner pack up to in a backpack?

138 degrees sounds like a sweat lodge. I'm envious.

Lounging around in these tipi's is great and as mentioned above they get very warm very quickly. Unless you have a cot your at ground level on your sleeping pad. The first shelter I tried the stove in didn't easily seal to the ground, it still got very warm inside but there was no laying around in the skivvies.

I also carry a light foam pad for the lounging around part. Invariably there is the occasional spark that makes it out the door and would be bad for an ultralight air mattress.

I own a ti goat stove and found building the fire and feeding it through the 3 inch round hole was an unnecessary misery. I built a new front panel with a bigger door and it worked great.

I've also recently started experimenting with building stoves from round tins designed to get air under the fuel and have been pretty impressed with how adjustable the heat is by using the door and damper to control them and they go from low to really cranking in seconds which helps when you wait too long to feed them or are using damp wood.

new here but maybe this will interest some........

Yea the Kifaru Medium stove is the best for the six man. Works great. The tipi and stove pack up pretty small. I can get you some deminsions or picures.

Sure man that would be great!

Hey Rack!
Merry HoHo my friend! I too am looking into a Kifaru w/stove.
Sure is lots of info-almost overload Plan on ordering towards the end of Jan., whether a Kiff or Ti. Sill haven't decided on a para tipi or a four man though Just gonna be me, me and my Rotti, or me, Tasha (Rotti), and grandson.
I can hear you guys already, "get BOTH!" lol

If you get yours before me, I would like to have a look. And I will let you know when mine comes in.

Happy New Year folks!!

LeRoy, for your use I'd go with either a 4 or 6 man. Paratipi is a "crawl in" shelter, 4 man is a "crouch in" shelter, and 6 man is "walk in" shelter.

TTT.....any more info out there??

I'd say go for the six man. The extra space and height is worth the small weight penalty.

Cool man. I'd love to know how small the tipi and stove fold up to in a pack....

SMALL ........... I have used the 8-man with lg stove for a couple yrs and the setup weighs ca. 14lbs and once loaded in my MR CC, I have rm for 5 days of the other stuff. Regardless, whatever size you are contemplating, go 1 size bigger.

That would almost confirm the 6-man then. Probably a medium stove as well I'm guessin....