Hoping that some of you vets would share some of the wisdom you have gained on your many trips. How has your philosophy of planning, packing, etc changed and evolved? Are there certain things you do to prepare, etc? Any nuances that you feel may be missed in books, etc about the actual hunt or anything that leads up to or proceedes it?

A positive attitude is your greatest asset, and one you can't buy.

With a positive attitude the chitty weather and heavy pack only seem that way, but you know better (grin).

The pain you will feel is the reason you are there. It let's you know you are alive and makes the success of a hunt seem more well earned. What knd of satisfaction is there in shooting a deer off your back porch? None, it makes sausage but not fond memories.

I view the trip as an excuse to peak out my physical training cycle and really hammer out my cardio. On the trip, I work, work, work and smile because the Gatorade will taste even better.

Go when you can. Life and murphy has a way of screwing up the long planned trip but just as often you can get out there on short notice opportunities. Small trips are highly enjoyable and sharpen yur skills. Be prepared to go at short notice. Use prepacked boxes or bins and checklists to mske sure you've got the essentials. Pare down the load relentlessly to the true essentials. Be prepared to go with whatever weapon is allowed. You'll hunt more if you are decent with a muzzleloader and bow. It's not about the equipment, it's about being out and hunting.

I found more common sense in these few posts than than I usually find in a few weeks of posts.

That's because two of us are from Oklahoma ;-)

Just like Will Rogers.

While I'm a rookie at this stuff (backpack hunting), this is exactly my view!

junglecarbine:

I went on my first backpack trip in 1958. Or was it 1959? Memory is the first thing to go. I don't know if I've gotten any wiser, maybe I've just gotten lazy. There are a few things that I do now that I didn't use to to do.

First I have cut the weight of my pack in half. I started by getting a smaller lighter pack and filling it with ultralight gear. And now I just take less stuff.

I prepackage my food. Put one day of food in a Zip Lok storage bag. I have several ready to go now and I just have to put the right number of bags in the pack. That's how I avoid taking too much food.

Also, I limit my trips to 3 or 4 nights. I can stay out longer than that by planning my hunts so that I return to base camp every four or five days. So I can take less food and fuel.

I also use lists. That prevents me from forgetting essential things and it also prevents me from taking stuff that I won't use.

I determine what's essential by my own experience. "Essential" has a different definition for each person and you can only determine what's essential for you by getting out and doing it a bunch of times. I have found that I have to be comfortable in the day and I have to sleep well to be sharp as a hunter. My definition of essential is defined as follows:
1. Self-contained survival while maintaining minimum comfort to remain sharp.
2. Making a clean quick kill.
3. Field dressing the elk.
4. Hauling the elk out.

KC

conrad & TXRam:

I use to feel the same. I would carry fifty pounds and more in my pack and I thought that there was some level of accomplishment in doing that. Not any more. At my age, I better be in good shape to start the hunt. During the hunt is no time for me to be training.

I agree that there's a lot more satisfaction in going after the animals in their back yard winning the battle of wits. That's why I continue to backpack hunt.

KC

While I certainly don't have as many years of experience as some (and sure do appreciate what they have to offer), I have had the privilege of rambling through some of the bigger country in the West. I sure agree with Brad about attitude, it can make or break a trip.
For me, my goal with gear and techniques is always to make my own hunting skill and physical fitness the only limiting factors for success; this is the same for my other trips too, substituting "climbing skill" or simply "enjoyment of the surroundings" for hunting skill. Of course making your fitness threshold as high as possible will allow you to focus on nothing but the necessary skills to accomplish your specific task (hunt, climb, ski, etc.).

As far as my take on the preparation process, etc.;
I am in a life stage where my wife and kid(s) (#2 on the way) require that I be very deliberate about each extended trip. This has been good in that I am learning to plan carefully and maximize my opportunity to succeed on a given hunt. I have developed priorities regarding what animals I am really interested in chasing. For instance, I'd rather put my time in chasing big mulies in the high country and come away empty than spend much time at all hunting elk. Many people might be the opposite, and my interests will probably shift at some point. It just comes down to prioritizing what types of hunts fulfill your goals.
In terms of packing and gear, solid logic goes a long way. Instead of banking on a certain piece of gear to keep me comfortable (i.e. a hard shell keeping me dry), I've learned to use a system that will function and keep me comfortable in a broad range of conditions; wet, dry, or somewhere in between (which is where an active hunter spends most of their waking time thanks to perspiration).
Sometimes you just have to suffer, and that's when that good attitude comes in. I've certainly been guilty of tapering dedication when faced with less than thrilling circumstances.
I sure look forward to many more years of learning to be a successful backpack hunter.

Don't know if this qualifies as "wisdom" but I've gotten so I'm no longer in a hurry to get from point "a" to "b," or check out each and every spot that looked so good on the map, or multiple high lakes instead of the one I'm catching fish and having a good time at.

Slow down, don't be in a rush. That goes double if/when you get an animal down. As long as spoilage is not a problem, take your time and enjoy every trip out with meat on your back, that's what you came for!!!

Take a load out to the truck (and the marine cooler with ice you have waiting) and don't be in a rush to get back in right away. Pull out the folding chair, have a beer, watch the sunset, and crash at the trailhead, with the tent/bag/pad you have stashed there. Wake up in the morning, fry a big skillet of potatoes, onions, and eggs, and head back in. Be where you are, not where you think you should be.

Thanks for that!! I'm in a similar stage of life and need to follow your advice on both the hunting and the gear.

You got this pegged. After I got mIne last year (day 1) and off the mountain on day 4, I stayed at our camp and poked at the fire, smoked a cigar and drank coffee all day. It was great.

smokepole:

If that's not wisdom, I don't know what is.

KC

1. Don't try to separate fighting dogs
2. It's better to be with a buddy that challenges you than one you babysit
3. Beware of fast moving water
4. Look out for snakes
5. Never hike in with one of your kids, further than you can carry them back out.
6. Never hunt with a Blaser rifle unless you are prepared to talk to every single person you meet, from the airport on out, about that rifle. I'm the kind of guys that needs a t-shirt that says "Don't talk to me"; and a Blaser just ruins my day for that reason.
7. Someone that carries your load just a little will be a friend for life; conclusion.....carry someone's load sometime (but still don't talk to me, Ha!)
8. I'm with Brad on attitude.....pain is just weakness coming out of you, push through the first side splints and a whole world opens up (and I had to be past 40 to find this out)
9. Don't get you Down bag wet, and lastly
10. Never argue with an Alaskan about rain gear!
Don

That's right on. I usually hike until the kid doesn't want to any more. Then throw her in my back pack and head back to the truck.

Lots of good stuff here just remember no matter how hard you think it is you could always be back at work.

We are getting some wisdom out of this thread.

KC

I'll be 62 by hunting season. Age gets us all in the end. You need to realize your limitations and take steps to deal with them.

My solution to lengthening my hunting years:
We'll be doing some short trips this summer to see what works best, the llamas or the goats. The llamas can carry quite a bit more weight, but the goats are much easier to handle and transport when hunting.

Goodday fellow hunters,

Very much enjoy this site and particular this forum. Having spent the better of 20 plus years in the Marines, I am on and off on the years I get to hunt. A few years back I started collecting a little list of things I have seen people post or maybe read in an article or book (having no orginal thought at times), I am sure you can make this list bigger, thanks for reading.

1. High Vantage Points
2. See them before they see you
3. Take notes (good or bad)
4. Scout from afar
5. EAT, EAT, EAT
6. Respect the animal
7. Be patient, be aggresive
8. Respect nature
9. "WATCH THE WIND"
10. Respect your fellow hunter
11. Stay in the shadows
12. "You will fail, can you bounce back".
13. Push, Push, Push
14. "It's never to late, it only takes one shot/one arrow to turn worst hunt into the best".
15. Focus on desired results
16. Do not skyline yourself, EVER!!!
17. Believe in yourself, and your ability
18. No Guts, No Story
19. "If it were easy, everyone would do it".
20. Do it because you can

I very much enjoy hunting the highcountry of the Sierra's and Rocky's.

Thanks for reading

hike2fish

I don't know Smokepole, your advice just makes it sound like you're getting old. Maybe you should find a 20-something mountain biker / runner / bowhunter to start hanging out with

The one piece of advice I'd add that hasn't been mentioned is not to get carried away with complicated gear or gadgets. Simpler is almost always better. My one personal exception to that rule is a Kifaru stove. The fiddling around is worth it.

I had a feeling some good stuff would come out on this thread. Thank you all for sharing. Some of this wisdom will probably take time and probably some bad experiences for me to absorb.

While a newbie, the one thing learned this year, is that anyone can make a hunt happen. One must just do it. Too many years have gone by in my life wanting to hunt and letting what really amounted to some pretty minor obsticles and misinformation stand in my way.

I find, I don't look back fondly on "the easy hunts"

Sounds to me like he is getting wiser! ...but I'm an aspiring codger.

There is an unusual amount of wisdom shared already in this thread, from carrying kids to confidence and mental stamina.

Another bit of bush wisdom might be an ability to adapt to what the weather, terrain and vegetation gives you. I consider that a big asset though I'm not sure what to call it. Once in awhile that means to look at the weather and go down, as I have done twice when a blizzard moved in on a goat hunt.

As applied to a camp site it is me fitting reality rather than asking the outdoor reality on the spot to adapt to me, to a rigid idea of what makes a good camp spot or to the gear I have. The gear we carry helps us transform a wild place into a spot habitable by a human, for a night or a few. The more we can use what the spot gives us the less effort and better shelter we will have.

Also, on an errata list, taking care of feet is crucial, putting moleskin on hot spots BEFORE they turn into blisters (which can happen in "a few more" minutes). If boots fit really well that's not usually a problem.

Keep a running mental note of potential camp sites nearby. If weather change or anything unexpected calls for making camp, you have something in mind rather than starting a randon search.

Pick a camp or bivvy spot before dark if possible, even if you don't set up camp. I like to set up camp in midday so that I can hunt till dark and return to a laid out sleeping bag. In any kind of emergency, dangerous weather, etc. stop at least an hour before dark and get a campsite chosen and set up. I don't follow that prescription on many backpack hunts in reasonably decent weather and terrain, but rather hunt till dark and set up camp in pitch dark. But before it got dark I have usually chosen a place to camp, even if it is merely a general area like a patch of timber or a nearby bench rather than a specific spot.
Another random one: limit risk when you are alone or far from help. Take the safe step, climb the safe route, pick a safe water crossing (or don't cross it), even if it takes more time, distance, etc.

An axiom: Don't get wet if you are spending the night out. Sometimes you can't stay dry but really work at staying as dry as possible.

Two trips with two safe loads is a wiser choice than one so heavy it risks injury to the backpacker. I haven't always followed that one either. That's how I know it.

Lots of good stuff so far.
My "rules" are pretty simple, but most of them are pretty strict.
Never, ever, go more than 50 yds. from your vehicle without the proper clothing, water and food in that order. That's because 50 yds. easily turns into 500 yds. then, 5000 yds and a 1000 feet up which easily turns into more.
Always be aware of where you are and what tracks you are leaving in what kind of ground. Then you can go off trail anytime you want. And never get lost doing it.
Know what the hazards are and what to do about them. It can be simple stuff like snakes and Poison Oak, or complicated stuff like treacherous terrain. Add avalanch danger if applicable.
Don't forget to have fun. Like somebody said, enjoy where you are and don't assume you always know what and where everything you are interested in is.
Always come back out the way you went in. Look around as you do it. That way you'll notice what you missed on the way in.
Serves to remind me that sometimes I'm not as sharp a hunter as I think I am.
One last thing. Know your limitations and don't be too proud to say "I need to turn around now and go back." E

evanhill:

Man do I agree that people can get carried with complicatd gadgets. I have a couple of hunting partners that are chronic gadget men. I realize that their gadgets may be of some use. But they always seem to buy them just before hunting season so they haven't had time to become proficient with their new toys. This means they spend a lot of time fidgeting with their whatsit while I'm waiting for them. That's time that I could be hunting.

KC

E:

I'm not as strict with rules as you are. I call them guidelines and I don't want to apply my guidelines too strictly because that may prevent me from adapting to the current situation. I stick to the old Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared". But if your rules work for you, then that's great.

I rarely return along the same route that I started on. I've never had a problem finding my way and if I return via a different route, I can cover more ground. I've never admitted that I was lost. Some times I didn't know exactly where I was, but in the end it didn't seem to matter much. I always carry a compass and USGS maps, and I recently bought a small lightweight GPS, just in case.

Knowing my own limitations is something that I am trying to learn, not always successfully. At 62 I find that I can't go as far or as fast or carry as much as I use to. It hurts my pride to admit it, but I guess it happens to all of us eventually.

I agree that knowing the hazards which we might be confronted with is important. There are many things that could fall into a category of what we should know to be good hunters and many of them are far from unique to hunting. Such as being a proficient camper, route finding, reading a map and using a compass, fire starting, field dressing an animal, wilderness survival, packing a backpack so it will ride comfortably, footcare, layering clothing, etc.

KC

Agreed.

KC, I use that rule in areas that I'm not currently familar with. I've gotten into some nasty situations trying to come down a steep mountain by a different route than the one I used to go up it, for instance.
While hunting a somewhat familar area, I will often move in a circle. so there are exceptions.
But what often happens is I find myself going into new country as I hunt. That and I often have seen things, even fresh tracks on my hours old boot tracks, that make going out the same way I went in worthwhile. E

Hey guys I just hit the big 50 on Monday. I was just wondering how old the rest of you guys are. KC and Smokepole you guys are from my neck of the woods so I value you your information due to being in the same local. Rock Chuck I was at the Urban Farm in Aurora over the weekend and saw a couple of donkeys, and goats. I'm beginning to think they (either) would be handy for haulin my gear as opposed to me hauling my gear, and quarters when I score. Now if I can only convince my wife I need them!

Coming down steep country you aren't familier with can be hazardous. One time I was bushwacking back to the truck in rim rock country. I figured a short cut would be in order as it was getting dark. I made my way almost to the canyon bottom by headlamp. I could actually see the trail below, but I had rim rocked myself. There was a smooth rock face at about a 40 degree angle that I needed to cross to get to a wooded ridge. It was only about three big steps across and would have been no problem if dry, but it was covered with a skiff of snow. The rock face terminated at a cliff, some 20 feet above the canyon floor.

I weighed the decision whether to climb back all the way around or chance the three big steps. I went for the steps and made the 1st one OK, made step number two and as I was getting ready for the third and final step. I went for a ride. Landed flat on my back and went sailing off the cliff feet first. Not much time to think, other than this is bad, real bad. As it turned out, I was real lucky. I landed in a mountain mahogany bush about sit feet tall. I was scratched up pretty good, but all in one piece.

That did teach me a good lesson and I have never launched myself off a cliff again.

My "wisdom" that I've learned the hard way.

Learn to use your GPS, compass, and map before going. (no on the trail training) Look at google earth until it's burned into your memory. Print off a few copies too for the pack.

Have a SHARP knife. Have a sharp spare knife in case you lose your knife.

Bring more than enough food and liquids.

Go where 99% of the other guys won't go to find the best hunting. In other words, their isn't going to be a trail.

You can never spend too much money on good socks, boots, and clothing.

And, when you get where you are going, do all your walking with your eyes through good optics.. Don't go stomping through the best area.

Edited to add.. Always come back down the same way you went up. Can't tell you how many "shortcuts" turned into blueberry and devils club nightmares.

I have been hunting, backpacking and sometimes both together since Hector was just a pup. Lightweight and ultra lightweight backpacking is the only way to go.
At my age it is the only way I can go.

ULW is also a fun thing to do. Good for the mind as well as the back. Lots of new UL gear out there and even more important, lots of UL skills to master.

Just using mostly my old stuff, I got my overnight pack weight down to about 12 pounds.
Now with some gear upgrades, my next trip should come in under 10 pounds for 3 days and 2 nights. 2 more pounds of food per day for any more days and nights.

I agree with every point in your post except:
�Memory is the first thing to go.�
I am pretty sure memory is the second thing to go.
I forget what the first thing was.

Ed, that's an incredible story! And a classic mountain hunting conundrum: three bad steps to an easy safe route or a LONG way backtracking.

I have an acquaintance who died while recconoitering a short cut down a wide band of cliffs. It was a quarter mile straight down the mountain to our vehicles and three miles around by an old abandoned road we'd always used before. His feet slipped on slick dry grass when he stepped to the edge of a cliff to look over.

It was his first such trip.

Wow, that is a sad story. Ed's story sounds like wisdom from a painful, scary and difficult lesson.

I prefer to think of it as "getting wiser," but seriously, how much wisdom does it really take to recall past mistakes, and when the situation presents itself once more, go with "no way in hell I'm doing that again."

As to your second point, funny you should mention that. These are from this weekend, look familiar?







The second is a cholla next to the fire we banked up to get a bed of coals to roast foil-wrapped trout and red potatoes. We brought the 8-man and stove, and it was worth every second of set-up time, as you said.

I was gonna bring the mega-lite, because I wanted to pack light. I'd never hiked this part of the canyon but I knew it'd be rocky with a lot of stream crossings so I wanted a light pack. But Mr. mountain biker/runner said to bring the tipi/stove and any other stuff I wanted to cram in his pack because he wanted a good workout. So I did, and brought some good food.

The best part was when we stopped for a pizza and beer on the way out, and the pizza guy carded Mr. mountain biker. I told him that since he's yound enough to get carded, he needs to carry all my stuff from now on.

I hear what you guys are saying about going into unfamiliar country and coming out the other side in poorer condition that you went in. I once dropped a cow elk on top of a ridge. I knew there was an old logging road at the bottom of that ridge about half a mile away. But I had never hiked from A to B. I asked the guy with me to go back and drive the pickup to the bottom of the road where I would meet him. From the top of the ridge it looked like it was pretty open country. I figured I could just slide the elk right down to the road. About half way down I got into some triple stacked deadfall. I butchered her and eventually my buddy and I carried that gal out thru some of the meanest stuff I have ever crawled my way through.

KC

About coming down in unknown country:

Some years ago, I was hunting with my 13 yo son. We were in open sagebrush country and I parked my white Suburban on an open finger ridge (one of many) where I could see it from 5 miles away (a white whale is normally pretty visible).
Alex shot a deer and it was dark before we got it dressed. We planned to go back in the morning to bone it to pack out.
The truck was on a finger ridge that went down off the main ridge. A heavy cloud cover moved in that obscured all the stars. My minimag light didn't even start to light up the terrain so I had to guess which finger ridge the truck was on. I got it wrong. I guessed I'd picked one too soon, so when we hit the road, we headed toward camp thinking we'd pass it. Wrong again. We'd gone too far and we were half way to camp before I was sure of it. We ended up hiking 3 miles to camp, then back up again the next morning to find the truck and deer. It's extra weight, but now I carry a light with some MUSCLE to it. Even a 1/4 mile reflective range would have lit up the whale like a beacon.

It took most of my 20s to get to the point I started learning from my mistakes. I'd like to think that I'm now getting wiser too. Loading up that underage mountain biker with as much weight as possible sounds wise to me. Those boys with their LONG legs, decent muscle mass, and training regimens look to me like they'd be hellers on the trail. You've got to handicap that every way you can!

I'm going to be 66 tomorrow. What that means is I've got more stories than some do about making mistakes in the field.
I've several stories about trying out a "shortcut" in unfamilar country. A few have been life threatening experiences. Like the time I climbed a very steep ridge when I was very new at snowshoeing, only to discover I'd climbed through a bad avalanch area. Spent a very long day walking out by a different, but much safer, route. The only reason I got away with it was because I did it very early in the morning before the sun hit the slope.
Tried to take another shortcut once down a very steep ravine along side a very long, deep waterfall. The route I took got me so close to the waterfall that I was on wet, mossy rock much of the way. Now I know why people have been lost in that place and some of their bodies have very been recovered.
BTW, keeping oriented in the dark isn't hard. Find the North Star and go from there. While you may not be able to see very far, you can, at least follow your tracks with any kind of light as well. E

I hunt from a tree stand but have done hundreds of miles on the trail so here goes.

1. Pack more UL if looking to cover ground. There seems to be a fine line between enough gear aka pack weight and too much. Find a balance that works for you.

2. Know when to stop. Sometimes reality clashes with goals.

3. A dry camp sucks. I have setup camp in areas without water and have gone thirsty as a result. Water is heavy so I tend to pack enough for the day with an understanding of the next location to good water.

4. Pack a map and compass even if yea got a GPS. Mine has run down before.

5. Pack raingear even if the weatherman calls for sun. He doesn�t have to get soaked if wrong but you might.

6. Don�t take risks. If something doesn�t feel right your first impressions are probably correct. Better to cross a stream in a safer location even if yea gotta walk some more. Better to spend the time looking to avoid widow makers than hope that dead tree or branch over your camp will hold out for another day. Same goes for rock slides etc. Check if your camping site has good drainage and not prone to floods. If it�s getting dark and you haven�t made it to your intended camp there is no reason to stumble around in the backcountry though unknown terrain when a good site could be found closer at hand. Tell people your plans and expected return and don�t modify them on the fly too much if this can be avoided.

7. Take care of your feet. Pack stuff for blisters etc. Come to think of it a small FAK is a good idea.

8. Entropy rules in the backcountry. Any gear used should be returned to its stuff sack as will walk if given the chance. Know how to do field repairs on critical items.

9. Take time to just sit back and look.