Ok guys, Trying to decide between the Kifaru 4-man or the Sawtooth. Need some help here! This setup will be used on Sept elk hunting trips...I can not decide between the two. Is there more usable space in the sawtooth? There will most likely be two people using the tent. The 4 man tipi has been posted on the classifieds for two weeks. The package offered is the same price as a new sawtooth with equivalents. (bug netting, medium stove, etc.) The only difference is the tipi liner. What should i do???!!! IF you have any experience with sawtooth talk to me on this one! Thanks, Dan.

I would think the Sawtooth as lonl as its no more than two people.If its three or four than step up to the six man
Tim

The Sawtooth is THE way to go for a fully enclosed heated shelter for two guys. It will only get better once Patrick rolls out the liner for it. Nothing like being able to walk in and out of a heated, two-person, nearly bombproof shelter, like a man.

That said, I can't see it being a whole lot of fun for more than two people.

As Tim alluded, if you ever suspect that you'll have three to four guys...go for the six. A 6-man is downright spacious for two guys and their gear and you can sort of stand up. Three is pretty easy. It'll work for four guys if you can keep the gear ship-shape.

At four guys, you really ought to start thinking about the 8 or 12. The 8, IMO, is the first in the line-up that you can truly stand up in.

Allen

Thanks bushcraft and Tim. Rumors of the liner for the sawooth do make it more appealing. @Bushcraft. i really only like to hunt in pairs in the mountains. Thanks again, Dan.

I also would choose the Sawtooth. If a liner is something of interest, Patrick said earlier this week to me that the liner is about ready to go on-line. Might be a short wait before they are available, but I would think before next hunting season.

Ed,

Patrick announced the liner over on Kifaru earlier this week.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?25074-News-on-coming-products

Allen

Three of us used a 12-man Kifaru last Oct in CO. With the space taken by sleeping areas, gear, wood pile (which could be tarped outside to free up space), and stove I wouldn't want anything smaller.

And of course it all depends on what you are used to size wise. We use a 6 man for 5 folks all the time. Works out fine. 6 would crowd it a bit more but be workable.

I will say though, I"ve used the 6 man by myself and that becomes spacious then.

I have no issues with a four person for two people, six is great though. At a weight of under 5 lbs on a 6 person, it would seem to not matter much.

I've been using a 12 man and a 4 man for several years. I recently sold the 4 man and bought a Sawtooth. I haven't used the Sawtooth yet but my experience tells me the the Sawtooth will provide more usable space.

The 12 man makes a perfect tent for four Geezers on a Supecub moose hunt.

And of course it all depends on what you are used to size wise. We use a 6 man for 5 folks all the time. Works out fine. 6 would crowd it a bit more but be workable.

Another option is the "seek outside" two man. It's really pretty big for a two man, about 80 sq ft. It's 3 lbs 4 oz complete and only $375 with a net door. So add a Ti Goat cylinder stove for another 2 lbs, and you are still less than the base weight of a 4 man Kifaru without a stove. I have been working with mine close to home, and so far I am pretty impressed. It's just right for two with a stove, or three without the stove. It also gets a bunch roomier with the "mini wall" setup (standard option) that isn't available on a Ti Goat or a Kifaru. Seek Outside is also working on a 2 - 2.5 lb stove setup that I am hoping to try out soon. It's the best size for two and backpacking gear, and a stove. There isn't any extra room, but none wasted either.

Here are some Sawtooth photos I took. The shelter isn�t mine though had the opportunity to crawl around inside and hang out.









I liked the walk in higher door and stove placement. For two guys it seemed great but there are some pros to the 4-man/liner combo. First it was a long hard winter and my 4-man was used on mutliple two man trips.










The shelter has not failed me in 6 years though some of the harshest weather. The central stove location when combined with the liner is fantastic for heating. I have been in my short sleeves using a Kifaru small stove in -20F burning good Sugar Maple. The tipi shape if pitched correctly has a nearly supernatural wind resistance. The 4-man seemed to cup the ground better than the Sawtooth. On the downside snow can build up on the sides of the tipi and not sure if the Sawtooth is better in this regard. The clothes line is in a good location for the standard tipi shelters. Most of all the two doors are very nice for multiple people or cross ventilation.

I don�t think you can go wrong with either shelter.

THAT seems like the biggest factor right there-------head room vs. two doors. Everyone's different (some more than others ), but I'll take the convenience/practicality of two doors in this size shelter, over the extra standing space of the Sawtooth. Several have already chimed in about the number of people that comfortably fit in each size tipi, and I'll just add that as with many backpacking tents, if you simply divide the occupant rating in half, you've got your comfortable limit--------especially since the wood stoves need space. If personal gear weight limits aren't a concern (or concessions can be made) then quartering the capacity rating makes for palatial accommodations. I bought a 4man primarily as a solo shelter that would still feel spacious if I took a friend. If I knew I'd be consistently camping with one or more friends, I'd go with the 8man in a heartbeat. It's an awesome shelter with true standing room, and again, two doors.

To me the 4man's one pole and two doors trumps the Sawtooth's two poles and one door, even thought there's a little standing room in the Sawtooth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the wider footprint and lower profile of the 4man seems more wind resistant also. Maybe not an issue under most conditions, but it's still a factor to consider when dropping that kind of coin.

I've spent well over 100 nights in Kifaru/MountainSmith 4 man tipis and I think the Sawtooth has more useable room. I really like it and I think the Sawtooth is slightly better in the wind.

I haven't missed two doors and there is plenty of room for my wife & I plus 3-4 Labs and a wood stove.

Duly noted Ed. Your mountain experience far outstrips mine. BTW, 3-4 labs is impressive, given the floor space, hot stove, and Lab's personality.

A four man is simply how many sleeping bags can be arranged on the floor...and the guys in the middle darn well better not have to pee at 2 am.

Another pro to the 2 doors. LOL! Two is great, 3 is a bit tight even with gear outside and sleeping 4 things get a little sporty but I have done it. I do like the looks of the Sawtooth though and don't think the OP can go wrong with either one.

The Sawtooth, with the tie-outs, is AMAZINGLY stable when the wind is really honking. Aside from the stability, they add a lot to the livability of the interior space too.

Quite frankly, the Para-tipi could use them too.

I think the 4-man also has upper tie-out lines but I never needed them. I also think the Paratipi could use them and Patrick added those on the newer Paratipi's

Anyone want to see some 4-man tipi movies? Click on the photo to view the vids. This is best done in a new window:

Are these pics taken in a backpack hunt/ rc

The 4-man photos/video were taken during a subzero snowshoe ramble on the AT. The Sawtooth was during a group outing.