I don't backpack hunt as I don't ever plan on sleeping overnight away from the truck, but as I am out all day and the temps can get pretty cold here in Idaho, I would like to have a way to heat some water during lunch break.
Of something like a MSR pocket rocket and the smallest possible fuel cartridge. It will be much faster and probably better than the alcohol stove when temps are very cold. There are a couple of similar stoves and at least in my opinion there fairly close. I have a MSR, but the snowpeak stoves are well though of as well.
I own the first two listed and think you would be pleased. Pair either up with a 600ml Titanium cup (single wall) and you are good to go. For daytrip fuel, Snowpeak GigaFuel or Primus Powergas gets the nod in the small canisters. I use folded tinfoil for a lid on the Ti mug.
I had been a huge fan of the Jetboil Zip till I dropped it about 15" last week in Canada. Cheap fitting busted and rendered stove useless the rest of week. Looking at that Soto and a whisperlite now.
Alcohol stove will be fine for yourself and some occasional boils. It will be the lightest, least expensive option.
That's a fact, they do have a bit of a learning curve though, so don't be stupid and try to us it in the field on a cold day for the first time. The stove/pot/windscreen have to be a system to work properly.
Alcohol stove will be fine for yourself and some occasional boils. It will be the lightest, least expensive option.
That's a fact, they do have a bit of a learning curve though, so don't be stupid and try to us it in the field on a cold day for the first time. The stove/pot/windscreen have to be a system to work properly.
I respectfully dissagree with take a knee and Kevin T. IMO an alchohol stove is not the best way to go for several reasons. 1. The fuel is expensive on a per unit basis when compared to other fuels used in ultralight camp stoves. 2. Alchohol stoves take longer to heat a given amount of water so it takes more fuel and that means more weight. 3. Alchohol stoves run best on denatured alchohol and that can be hard to find, although you can probably get it at your local hardware/lumber store but not at sporting goods stores. 4. It's easy to spill an alchohol stove and you can get burning fuel on you and your gear and you can't see the flames. 5. Alchohol will deteriorate aluminum containers so you have to carry the fuel in a plastic bottle. 6. When you include the fuel and stove, that total package will weigh more than an ultralight isobutane stove and one cannister of fuel.
The only advantage of alchohol stoves is that they run absolutely silent. So if you want a hot cup of coffee in a blind and you don't want to make any noise, then an alchohol stove is the way to go.
But if you want the simplest kind of stove (they're almost idiot proof) that is also the lightest, then you ought to get an ultralight isobutane stove. All of the following stoves will do the job just fine and better than an alchohol stove.
If you want a stove to carry in your daypack to heat a cup of coffee on a day hike then you want something that is ultralight weight, simple to operate and takes up little room in your pack. The Optimus Crux folds and fits into a small pouch that sits under the dome of an isobutane cannister. It's probably the smallest and lightest package that you can find.
Another +1 on alcohol stoves. My favorite, hands down, is still the White Box stove. Yeah, it's $20 rather than .50c like some of the DIY models, but it works SO well I've never regretted the puchases------------I've bought some as gifts too.
Short hijack: Recently my wonderful old Sharp microwave finally bit the dust. For a full week-------until I could drive out of town to buy a new microwave--------I heated water for my coffee press and my older dog's dry kibble using only my original White Box stove. For coffee I used a 1 liter Primus tea kettle (what I normally use with the WB stove), but for my dog's food I used a full size stove top tea kettle and still brought the thing up to a whistle. BTW, for those wondering, I DO have a kitchen stove, but it's a glass top Jenn Aire which is actually slower at boiling than the White Box. Power outages will NEVER be a problem at my house.
If you're car camping, there's no reason to go ultralight though if you don't want. An MSR Whisperlite is great little stove for all seasons, and while the gram weenies my not like it for backpacking, it's perfectly fine for car camping-----------or backpacking if you chose the liquid fuel route. Coleman fuel is only $9 a gallon which is cheaper by far in the long run than fuel canisters if you plan to heat lots of food and water. If just heating water, and quickly, the Jetboil stoves are superb IF you don't mind being a slave to fuel canisters.
Hi KC Some alcohol stoves have a fabric that absorbs the alcohol so spilling is a non issue. I have one like this. Yes boil times are a minute or two longer (I boiled 16 ounces yesterday in 6 - 8 minutes yesterday morning). That is fine for me, if I was continually boiling, I would want something faster. You can make the alcohol stoves or buy them for $10 - $25.00 usually. Buy some fuel, keep it at home and fill whatever you need when you go out.
KC, obviously you know nothing about alcohol stoves, can't do arithmetic, and don't own a scale.
NOTHING is lighter than an alcohol stove setup. The guy said he wanted something for DAY USE. All of the stoves you listed with an empty cannister weigh around a half pound or so, PLUS the weight of the fuel. Since he wants it for day use, that means he will carry tommorrows and the next days fuel today, how the hell is that lighter.
With miserly fuel use (freezer bag cooking with a dialed in setup) NO cannister stove can save you any weight until your resupply becomes longer than 4-5 days, I've run the numbers.
I haven't gotten to the biggest PITA that accompanies all cannister stoves, "What if my cannister runs out? Better carry a SPARE!" Yeah, that's the UL way to go allright.
I haven't gotten to the biggest PITA that accompanies all cannister stoves, "What if my cannister runs out? Better carry a SPARE!" Yeah, that's the UL way to go allright.
That's why I'd rather go with a liquid fuel stove like the Whisperlite. Enough extra fuel for a safe margin doesn't add much weight, and I can actually peer inside the bottle to monitor the level. Cheaper fuel, reusable bottles, and very efficient consumption. Probably not for day use (somehow I read car camping), but it's the way to fly for a week or more.
BTW, the same fuel comments can be made about alcohol stoves. I carry alcohol in either 12oz or 20oz Pepsi bottles which way almost nothing when empty.
Judging by PastorDan's question, weight and space aren't concerns. Seems like the question would turn on how much it cost and how much hassle it is to get hot water. I use alcohol stoves but if I just wanted hot water when I got back to the truck, I'd think about a Kelly Kettle. I've always thought they were neat gadgets but too big and too specalized for my use. There is a swiss army surplus stove that's similar.
I've been SOOOOOO close to buying a Kelly Kettle several times! They've just got a Celtic coolness about 'em that keeps drawing me back-----------plus wood smoke smells way better than other stove exhausts. Now they even offer a stainless model that should last forever, and not risk leaching aluminum into the boiling water.
I,m gonna side with KC on this. I have done the alcy stove a bunch and though it does work I just don't like it any better than a reg light weight canister stove. I would rather carry an esbit tablet than the alcy stoves. jm.02
I'll take the convenience and speed of a canister stove over an alcohol or liquid stove for that matter. Even with a full 110g canister they are still light with a Ti mug. Ordered a case of 110g Powergas canisters awhile back, life is good!
You know Tx Trapper makes a real good point. An Esbit stove and a handfull of fuel tablets makes a really lightweight and easy to use package. I've tried them for cooking and they are too slow and it takes too many tablets. But to heat a cup of coffee or cocoa in a Ti cup on a day hike, an Esbit or Sterno Stove just might be the ticket. They make a smaller and lighter package than an Isobutane canister stove or an alcohol stove and there's no problem of guessing how much fuel you have.
A fire pot is another option, if you have access to wood.
There is the Bushbuddy, which is expensive. You can also make one out of a ss canister that you pick up at WalMart for $10. Mine weighs in at @9 oz, and can boil .5 ltr of water off of a handful of twigs.
You can also use charcoal briquets in it if in an area w/out dry wood. 3 briquets will cook a whole meal, you get to play with fire, and the cook pot slides into the fire pot, minimizing soot in the pack. What's not to like?
While size and weight are a factor I just cant get excited about the alcohol approach. I do like the simplicity of the Esbit stoves but I have read mixed reviews about their ability to boil water quickly and the fuel being messy. Most likely looking at a Snowpeak Giga or Primus Express. I do admit though, that this Esbit looks pretty interesting... www.trailspace.com/gear/esbit/stove-and-cookset/
Some of the older reviews so it is really slow to heat but I believe they have added holes to the bottom of the stand to give better oxygen circulation on the newer models.
You can make the alcohol stoves or buy them for $10 - $25.00 usually. Buy some fuel, keep it at home and fill whatever you need when you go out.
Kevin:
When my Boy Scouts claim that they can't afford a stove, I show them how to make an alcohol burner out of a tin can using only simple tools. A Dinty Moore beef stew can is just about the right size and shape. They work better if you float a couple of cotton balls in the alcohol to act as a wick. When they want to graduate up to an Isobutane canister stove, I steer them towards the Coleman Micro stove that they can buy at Wal Mart for $28.
It's been fourty years since I used Sterno tabs. Maybe they have improved them? I think I'll pickup an Esbit stove and give it a try, just for grins.
For your intended useage, I would seriously consider the Jetboil. You won't find anything that heats water faster and they fit in a daypack quite easily.
I've been working for a outdoor gear retailer for 7+ years now. We demo every stove we sell & plenty that we don't.
If you may be using the stove in colder temps, you want an isobutane stove w/ a built in regulator (JetBoil Sol Advanced for an all in one, Soto Micro Regulator if you already have a favorite cooking set) for consistent heat output down to 20 degrees, even when the temp (& subsequently the pressure in the canister) drops. If it's going to be colder than that, get a liquid fuel stove.
If the temps are going to be 35 degrees+, then any one of the canister stoves will be your best bet for weight & performance.
After demo's, I've gone w/ the Jetboil Sol for most of my backpacking. If the temps drop below that, I stick to my MSR whisperlite international --- because it never fails & still can hang w/ the best of them on weight. For warm days w/ more people in my party, I use the Optimus Crux Lite as it has given me the fastest burn times & the most efficient use of fuel.
Let us know what you settle on & how it works out for you Pastor.
Or you could just grab a couple hexamine bars and stack up some rocks for a stove.
Seriously I use the end of trail gram weenie and carry about 2oz of water. I cannot get any lighter than that if I just want to warm so water for coffee or a meal.
that trailspace stove looks like it would work well. i have often taken a beef stew can [ which looks like it is the same size as that in the picture of the trailspace] and cut air holes in the bottom for an esbit stove. a spam can works well too.
the esbit is sorta messy -it leaves a residue about like a fire of pine twigs would on your pot. trioxane is clean but hard to find, worth the search for me.
boil times are longer with esbit but with treated water do you really need to boil? lunch time coffee or soup make just fine under 200 degrees.
2 or 3 rocks actually do work pretty well and you cant get any lighter [ if you leave the rocks, that is.]
If you use some of the gels or bars they can be dirty and leave your pots black. Just put a thin coat of Dawn dishsoap on your pots and let it dry, all the crud will wipe off.
One alternative I haven't seen discussed yet is the alcohol burner from a Trangia cookset. You can buy the Trangia alcohol burner alone for less than $20. It is heavier than the usual gram counting backpacker alcohol stoves but it has a screw on lid which allows it to carry fuel and it's sturdy enough not to crush without having to be babied. You just fill it, screw on the lid and toss it in your pack. It'll carry plenty of fuel to heat up a few mugs of coffee, tea or ramen. It is, as discussed above, absolutely silent. Also alcohol will light even in temperatures way below freezing and it won't blacken your kettle/mug. You will want to pack a square of heavy foil as a windscreen and you'll have to rig up a couple of rocks to hold your mug over the burner. This is not a cook your meal backpacking rig. It's just a low fuss way to have a hot drink or cup of noodles without spending a lot of money or carrying lot of extra stuff. Fuel is just alcohol from the paint thinner selection at the hardware store. Oh, and the Trangia burners have been around for a very long time. They were invented and first sold shortly after metal started replacing stone in cutting tools.
I don't backpack hunt as I don't ever plan on sleeping overnight away from the truck, but as I am out all day and the temps can get pretty cold here in Idaho, I would like to have a way to heat some water during lunch break.
Any suggestions on what to consider?
You're describing the Esbit pellet stove. It folds up to the size of a deck of cards and burns pellets. One pellet will boil a large cup of water and it does it in minutes. That's what I use when we siwash on mountain tops on our sheep hunts. The Esbit is inexpensivve as well. Take a look. Bear in Fairbanks
I have been thinking seriously about an Esbit stove but the one that I linked to earlier.
While I appreciate the simplicity of a basic heat and stacking rocks for a stove, I do want something a bit more self-contained to bring along.
Burning Esbit smells worse than my feet after wearing Five Fingers and doing a crossfit workout. I always carry a couple of Esbit tabs but they are a last-resort for me.
Trangia sells a triangle that makes into a combination windscreen pot/mug support that weighs almost nothing to use with their alcohol burner. They also sell a little solo windscreen/pot support that holds a mug or small kettle nicely.
For really cold weather (well below freezing) it's hard to beat white gas stoves. A whisperlite with a small fuel bottle doesn't take much space and will work no matter how far the thermometer drops. If you have to melt snow for water, a white gas stove is the answer. Alcohol doesn't have the heat output and canister stoves (even blended fuel) do poorly when cold- especially below 20 or so.
.... and canister stoves (even blended fuel) do poorly when cold- especially below 20 or so.
Not true if one prepares accordingly. One can place the canister in their jacket's inner pocket or sleeping bag to warm it and build pressure or just run the new Soto Micro stove.
Below zero frozen canister test, watch around the 3 minute mark, the Soto Micro puts the JetBoil to shame in cold temps:
Well, yeah, it is true 'cause you've raised the temp of the cannister by using some of your own BTU's. Once it cools off, and cool off it will once gas starts leaving the can, output will suffer. Any cannister stove that sits on top of the cannister is a poor choice for cooler climes. It's just physics. A lot of guys over at BPL have modded the MSR Windpro to run with the cannister inverted. If you must use a cannister stove way below freezing, that is the smart approach.
Canister stoves don't work as well in the cold. Yes, you can run a canister stove below freezing. I like my little MSR pocket rocket(which admittedly is not one of the new regulated canister stoves) and I use it a lot. I have made it work in below freezing weather on several occasions. But it is a fuss and requires more effort and it gets much harder as temps go below 20 and the canister gets less full. At low temps the more volatile part of the fuel blend evaporates off early and you get decreasing canister pressure well before you are actually out of fuel. That canister then becomes a warm weather only canister. White gas is not fussy in freezing conditions. As far as that goes, neither is alcohol, but its lower energy per unit of fuel starts to show in really cold weather. It takes a lot of alcohol fuel to melt snow to water.
As far as that goes, neither is alcohol, but its lower energy per unit of fuel starts to show in really cold weather. It takes a lot of alcohol fuel to melt snow to water.
That's a fact, so alcohol becomes less practical weight-wise in colder temps. I always keep a four ounce on HEET/methanol nalgene bottle in my sleeping bag for cold mornings.
I would go so far to say that if you are melting snow with anything other than white gas (or wood, don't forget the Bushbuddy) you have a very inefficient system.
Any cannister stove that sits on top of the cannister is a poor choice for cooler climes. It's just physics.
So after reviewing the frozen canister test video you still consider the Soto Micro Regulator stove a poor choice for cold temps?
I froze my Soto stove mounted on an almost empty Gigafuel canister, the darn thing fires up reliably each time I pull it from the freezer and it maintains a beautiful flame btw. There is little fuel left in the canister and my freezer temp is 5degF fwiw.
This validates other Soto Micro Regulator reviews, and canister stoves are pretty popular with the Everest crowd (plenty cold up there).
Sorry, didn't read your link on the Soto, maybe it will fire up in the cold but I'll never buy one 'cause you can't safely rig a windscreen on the sucker, just like every other inline cannister stove. I've noticed it's a tad windy where I travel, can't speak for you and your locale.
Sorry, didn't read your link on the Soto, maybe it will fire up in the cold but I'll never buy one 'cause you can't safely rig a windscreen on the sucker, just like every other inline cannister stove. I've noticed it's a tad windy where I travel, can't speak for you and your locale.
"Maybe it will fire up in the cold"? Whats it take for you to eat some crow? I post a video of a frozen inline canister and my own inline Soto fires up fine when frozen at 5degF.
As for wind, I usually manage to find some kind of windbreak:
Btw, it was plenty "cold" that AM, canister inline (SP Giga) worked just fine like it has on other "cold" mornings:
Never taken a canister down that low so can't vouch for that low a temp. The lowest I've taken my Giga was mid teens with some wind chill, pulled the canister out of the pack, got behind a deadfall and cooked up some cup o noodles.
And canisters work fine up on Everest and Denali, ask Ed Viesturs. They keep their canisters warm and have no issues, some even pack MSR Pocket rockets.
I think for Pastor Dan's needs a canister would work just fine, especially the new Soto Micro or a remote canister setup like the MSR WindPro.
At above 20 degrees- then yes a canister stove works great. That's what I usually carry on a day hike or light overnight.
Canisters worked fine at high altitude well before regulated canister stoves were introduced. The air pressure at high altitude is significantly lower which in turn lowers the vaporization temperature for the canister fuel. If I remember correctly, atmospheric pressure is about halved from sea level to 18K ft.
Sorry, didn't read your link on the Soto, maybe it will fire up in the cold but I'll never buy one 'cause you can't safely rig a windscreen on the sucker, just like every other inline cannister stove. I've noticed it's a tad windy where I travel, can't speak for you and your locale.
"Maybe it will fire up in the cold"? Whats it take for you to eat some crow? I post a video of a frozen inline canister and my own inline Soto fires up fine when frozen at 5degF.
As for wind, I usually manage to find some kind of windbreak:
Btw, it was plenty "cold" that AM, canister inline (SP Giga) worked just fine like it has on other "cold" mornings:
MtnHtr
Where's your windscreen, or do you just drag that stump around?
Never used one though, plenty of rocks and logs where I hunt.
MtnHtr
No way is that thing of yours effective, it leaves a huge gap from the top of the screen to the pot's bottom. That Ti bowl in your link might actually work though, thanks for posting that.
No way is that thing of yours effective, it leaves a huge gap from the top of the screen to the pot's bottom. That Ti bowl in your link might actually work though, thanks for posting that.
Like I posted before, I don't own or use the OEM SP Giga windscreen. If wind is an issue where you hunt (with no cover or natural windblocks) then consider a MSR WindPro, it has great reviews and comes with windscreens.
You might want want to re-think your earlier post on melting snow.
Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
I would go so far to say that if you are melting snow with anything other than white gas (or wood, don't forget the Bushbuddy) you have a very inefficient system.
Ed Viesturs will stash his canisters in his sleeping bag all the way up to the final summit. Him and his pard will melt snow 3-4hrs a day just to rehydrate at those altitudes using canister stoves. Fwiw.
Not many places windier than where I hang out along the Rocky Mountain Front here in Montana. That said I prefer a canister stove. Have tried most all of them and prefer the Soto by far. I use it both with the JetBoil pot set-up like Luke did or just a regular pot.
I can always find something to shield the wind, a few rocks, behind a big tree, my pack, etc. Not perfect wind screens, but still way more time effecient than alcohol, esbit or anything but white gas which I greatly dislike because of the fuel that needs to be carried.
I have many times gone to various versions of alcohol burners and always come back to either a canister stove or a wood burning cone stove like this one I made:
Of course my first prefrence is a wood stove inside a tipi. That way you have heat, cooking and cloths drying all in one.
Alcohol stoves have one main advantage that makes them so popular with thru hikers, you can buy fuel at any drug store, hardware store, gas station etc.
Alcohol stoves have one main advantage that makes them so popular with thru hikers, you can buy fuel at any drug store, hardware store, gas station etc.
Yes, and the Caldera Cone/Clone (like your Ti-Tri clone in your pic) is the best of the lot, IMO. Wood, alcohol, or that stinkin' esbit will heat your food, you pick.
MtnH, I already have a Windpro, it's my two-person, not-too cold stove. Viestur is a beast for sure, who am I to second guess the greatest living mountaineer, but that stove setup of his looks a tad tippy to me.
Viestur is a beast for sure, who am I to second guess the greatest living mountaineer, but that stove setup of his looks a tad tippy to me.
Not tippy, mountaineers prefer to hang their stoves when melting snow (which takes up a good deal of their time) in 4 season tents, it keeps their tent warm and less chance of knocking it over. They prefer to hang both liquid and canister stoves in properly vented 4 season tents. Should add the Jetboil is pretty popular it seems among that group. And again, they stash their canisters in warm places before they use them.
@ MtnHtr & @ ..Knee -- In my opinion, the JetBoil Sol Advanced or Sol Ti solves the probs discussed. Among other stoves, I've got the original JetBoil PCS, a Soto OD-1R and a JetBoil Sol Ti.
1st, the Sol has a built in regulator, like that of the Soto OD-1R. The fact that the JetBoil used in MtnHtr's video was a PCS, which doesn't have a regulator, is the reason that the Soto performed so much better in the cold temps. Compare the Soto to the JetBoil Sol & the Soto loses it's advantage.
2nd, the JetBoil Sol Advanced & TI have the "Flux" heat exchanger which does help deflect a substantial amount of wind. This is where the JetBoil gains the advantage over the Soto.
If you're interested, I'll see if I can set up a side by side comparison of the stoves. I'll set them both on canisters nestled in some ice on my counter for a "wind free" compairison & then I'll do the same outside on a windy day. I haven't uploaded videos to youtube in the past so it might be a while.
I just did a side by side video of the Jetboil SOL Ti against the Soto OD1R on boil time, at 6,000 and 11,500 feet in elevation... I will post up the link to the video, but I would say that all the issues I had with the original Jetboil have been taken care of and it will be going in my pack this fall.
I actually did several tests over the last few months with several stoves...Frozen canisters, low fuel canisters at high altitude,canister stoves against multi fuel stoves, canister stoves against MF stoves in cold conditions and of course, the weight savings of an alcohol stove against all the others. It was one of the funnest review/tests that I have done and I definitely learned a ton from it!
I gotta hold off on posting the results till it's up on Live Hunt (or I'll get yelled at again), but I will post it up on here when it's available.
A few interesting things I did find....
1) If you take 2 canisters on your hunt and drop on of the canisters in warm (almost boiling) water, you get 3 more boils out of the canister).
2)The temperature in my tent (Nalo GT 2) went up 15 degrees is under 5 minutes burning my stove inside.
3)When I froze my Isobutane canister for testing, it only took 3 minutes inside my sleeping bag (when I was inside it) to get R back to normal.
4)When camping in single digit conditions, the JB SOL and Soto had very little difference in boil times as long as the canister was kept inside the sleeping bag at night.
One reason I grew fond of inline canister stoves like the SP Giga/Lite Max and Soto Micro style stoves is the whole setup fits in a 600ml Ti mug, including a single fuel canister (110g). There's even room to add a couple BIC Mini lighters. This is a very compact package with no worries about spilling fuel and inline canister stoves have very little moving parts to break or fail. On an extended hunt one could even pack an extra stove for less that 3oz in case the first one was to fail. I had to rethink alot of my gear when I packed my old Kifaru Siwash:
I have a alcohol Whitebox stove but it's wider flame pattern is more efficient for my wider Evernew pot. And I seldom pack my Evernew pot if going real light or space is limited. I can boil water and get by just fine with a 600ml Ti mug. No muss, no fuss and I can have hot water boiling in just a few minutes. I prefer to focus on the hunt and not worry about stove failures, dry wood gathering or spilling fuel, pump failures etc.
One reason I grew fond of inline canister stoves like the SP Giga/Lite Max and Soto Micro style stoves is the whole setup fits in a 600ml Ti mug, including a single fuel canister (110g). There's even room to add a couple BIC Mini lighters. This is a very compact package with no worries about spilling fuel and inline canister stoves have very little moving parts to break or fail. On an extended hunt one could even pack an extra stove for less that 3oz in case the first one was to fail. I had to rethink alot of my gear when I packed my old Kifaru Siwash:
I have a alcohol Whitebox stove but it's wider flame pattern is more efficient for my wider Evernew pot. And I seldom pack my Evernew pot if going real light or space is limited. I can boil water and get by just fine with a 600ml Ti mug. No muss, no fuss and I can have hot water boiling in just a few minutes. I prefer to focus on the hunt and not worry about stove failures, dry wood gathering or spilling fuel, pump failures etc.
MtnHtr
Exzactly why I like my SP Lite Max.. I'm hunting. One 110g canister is all I need for a week of dinner boils, some hot tea, or hot chocolate. with fuel left over for a couple more days if I need it. Stove,110g fuel,spork(bent) lighter and some matches all fit in my 700ml Ti mug.
I gotta hold off on posting the results till it's up on Live Hunt (or I'll get yelled at again), but I will post it up on here when it's available.
A few interesting things I did find....
1) If you take 2 canisters on your hunt and drop on of the canisters in warm (almost boiling) water, you get 3 more boils out of the canister).
2)The temperature in my tent (Nalo GT 2) went up 15 degrees is under 5 minutes burning my stove inside.
3)When I froze my Isobutane canister for testing, it only took 3 minutes inside my sleeping bag (when I was inside it) to get R back to normal.
4)When camping in single digit conditions, the JB SOL and Soto had very little difference in boil times as long as the canister was kept inside the sleeping bag at night.
Great findings Elk Reaper!!! If jetboil would have gotten their act together a year sooner I wouldn't have had to go the SOTO route it seems like.
Probably won't purchase the SOL Ti anytime soon, but glad to hear that they vastly improved over their PCS system they had prior to it as it was dismal in anything below freezing temps.
For my needs/preferences, the reduced size of the Jetboil Sol cup (from 1 liter to .8) is a better fit too --- but it is compatible with any of the other PCS cups.
Well...didn't end up buying a stove. I pulled the Optimus 8R that we got from my dad when he passed away a couple years ago and decided to see if it would still fire up after sitting in a drawer for almost 40 years. Sure enough, it lit right up. It's a little heavy but it works like a charm!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/Places/IMG_0385.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/Places/IMG_0381.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/SPWindscreen3.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.everestnews.com/Summitclimb2005/pictures/dm-P1010035.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/runsmtns/CalderaCone1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.jetboil.com/files/testimonial_images/aaron.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/IMG_2032.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/IMG_1997.jpg)