Yesterday, Kevin at Seekoutside posted info on the new Ed T's Backcountry Shelter, which is a collaboration between myself and Kevin.
http://seekoutside.com/backcountry-shelter-2/


Here is a little background on it.

I have been always searching for the ideal solo/2 man shelter. My quest started with a Kifaru Para Tipi and while I used it a lot and liked it, it always felt cramped. Same story with the Super Tarp and annex, although I liked the stove jack placement better than on the Para Tipi.

I then went through the GoLite ShangriLa series, 2, 3, 4 and while they worked well they were missing some features.

The Kifaru Sawtooth came next and I thought I really had it now. Stand-up room. Plenty of space etc. The only drawback was it still was a bit heavy, especially for a solo shelter.

Late spring/early summer, I picked up a discontinued Integral Designs George Tarp from the classifieds. The pitch took some experimenting of get just right, but had good height, slightly more than the Sawtooth and plenty of room. I sewed a stove jack in and was quite happy with it. It still wasn't there however.

Fast forward to the collabration with Kevin. The shelter was given a remake, with such changes as catanery cuts to the fabric to tighten things up, lengthing the rear, adding a sod skirt, guy line ties re-located, stove jack added and an optional zip-in door panel that lowers the height but increases the space to a 4 man sizeed shelter.

The end result is a 7' high, 2+ man wood heated shelter that is minimalist in weight yet full featured in backcountry comfort. My final prototype cane in at 2lb 10oz with Carbon fiber pole and stakes. Couple this shelter with my 12" titanium stove and you have 2 man, stand-up shelter with wood stove for about 4lb 12oz.

Looks fantastic. Will definitely be giving it a try along with a stove.

Very nice!!! It would be cool to see more pics but with people in it for size reference

More photos will be up shortly.

I 2nd these "remakes" just from looking at the pics and what you have written here about the George tarp changes. Well done!

I have used an Integral Designs "George Tarp" for about 12 years and it is a very nice shelter, but.... it could be improved upon with regards to pitch tautness and in the tie out placements. And adding the catenary cuts and changing the tie outs would help the George tarp a great deal in that regard. Even the rear lengthening of the structure may help, although that is not a problem for me with the "George Tarp". The sod cloth is a nice addition for a wood burning shelter.

And after using a SeekOutside "Breakaway" tarp for my last few outings this last month- I know the quality will be there in this new Backcountry shelter. If it was not- Ed T would not put his "signature" so to speak on it.

** Ed, I have a ? for you: What was the square footage difference in the new Backcountry shelter when compared to the ID George tarp? Thanks.

Really liking the design and the specs, I want one! I NEED one to complete my Ed T backcountry collection.

The rear lengthening was done to remove the flat panel for better wind and snow shedding. The shelter can still pitch the same as the original, or you can pull out the rear, and get some curve and angle to it, for better wind and snow shedding.

I don't have the exact square footage difference, but the front doors come out a little longer , and the option to bring the rear out a bit, probably adds about 6 - 8 sq feet overall.

llama2, I'm glad the breakaway is working out for you.

Love it... it just needs to be taller
If it had at least an 8' peak height I'd seriously consider it.
My criteria is that at 6'4" (and maybe + a hair more for boots) I should be able to walk around the pole without head or shoulders touching the sides. It my mockups 8' gets me there.

--thumper338

Can a couple sleep side by side without any poles or anything in the way?

Can it still be pitched as a flat tarp/cooking tarp for groups?

Very nice

I ordered one last night. I loved the Sawtooth and really liked my Sl-4 and I think this will be a good cross of the two. Even if it just had the square footage of the Sl-4 without the pole in the middle I think it would be a winner.

I"d like to see a stove in it when you get time.

And what about interior "rain" fly as we camp in wet areas at times... IE liner. mixed with a bug screen in front.

If we could get that added it would be ideal IMHO.

Well, we like to hear your comments as we decide what accessories to build along with it.

You know what i want, a nest/liner with floor.

I'd take a nest/liner in lieu of the kifaru type liner. But frankly I'd much prefer liner only with no floor.

FWIW it would be easy enough to sew at home if need be if one only had the time...

Big W , thats what you are getting with your 8 person : )

Just curious, what is the order of importance
- Ground protection
- Condensation Protection
- Bug protection

I'd say

#1 Condensation Protection
Not a huge issue in Western MT but in some areas it can be

#2 Bug protection
The sod skirt helps a lot
The optional zip in door panel does the rest for me

#3 Ground protection, a distant 3rd I'd add.

I got the automated e-mail from seekoutside yesterday and it looks like a winner.
Never saw the price though.

For add ons, I would be looking at a condensation liner.
I gets a little wet here in Wa.

For me, and I know thats not who you are directing too, but I'm with EdT

Condensation for our issues, I can deal with it some, but we often camp where its got moisture, and not really cool or cold enough to run a stove to burn it out....etc...

Condensation #1. The sod flap will seal the sides from bugs and thats a huge plus that my para tipi and 6 man don't have but IF I ever got that far I was going to add myself...

Add a zip in door panel for bugs, that would be the total answer for warm weather and bug proof then for us, would give ventilation and keep the bugs out.

Jeff

oh yeah ground protection, we carry an emergency tarp just in case, and or tyvek sheets to protect the air pads and don't need more than that.

Just got done in 2 tents in AK with a friend a few weeks back... had to shake lots of dirt out when done... that sucks... and if it was wet.... would have been worse, floorless is really nice.

I'm with Ed to, Condensation would be the first thing I would want to fight.

A liner is pretty easy for us to do. We have them pretty well figured out. I know a lot of people have other issues with non completely enclosed shelters, so your feedback is very important as we try to find the best , lightweight solutions.

Here is my personal opinion:
- condensation is the biggest issue, it can be minimized in a lot of areas and in different ways but there are times it happens. Frost is a problem as well. A liner solves this
- Flying insects, mostly solved via screen doors and sod skirts
- Crawling insects, snakes, rodents - mostly solved with a sod skirt and some dirt over it, but at other times only a complete enclosure solves this and even then in some areas rodents will just eat through your tent, regardless of single wall, double wall or whatever
- Dirt and water mostly solved through groundsheets and floored tents get dirty as well, and I have had water come through floors as well. It's mostly about location
- Bugs inherent in the ground such as chiggars, pretty much need a full enclosure

What I would like to do is see how most folks are using the tent and get some feedback from them (it's very important for customers to communicate with us) and then find what seems to be the best solution for the majority of people.

Looking at the diagram, I assume the answer to this one is yes... but I'm interested in your response as well.

An "inside" picture with a couple sleeping bags laid out and a stove in place would probably answer a lot of questions. In fact, the more pictures of all the pitch options the better, as you guys have time.

Very interesting stuff.

Given I looked like a meth addict from scabs after my last floorless TP hunt, I'm going to rank bug protection as #1. But that varies from region to region, and from season to season.

Ground protection is a 2nd, but might move to #1 if I'm on a hunt w/o a cot.

Condensation.. most of my gear gets wet anyways. What's a little bit of condensation going to do..(grin)

Calvin

What bugs were they ? Sounds like only a full enclosed nest works for you.

I would like to see some pictures of the shelter in action.

Also, do you have a picture of the Breakaway tarp on it as the awning?

Thanks

Will get more photos soon. We've been super busy getting it ready and the 8 man etc.

Ed , what are your impressions of the Taupe color, forgot to ask you.

Kevin,

I really like the Taupe. It will belend into most any setting, yet the inner fabric has a sort of brightness to it so you don't get the feeling you are inside a cave.

You and Angie did a great job in getting this design as close to ideal as can be.

sent a PM instead

FWIW I've had the kif tipi in AK a couple of times. I"ve yet to have a bug problem but i typically sod sealed the edges regardless to prevent that....

This shelter should be the same.

BTW it asked uses... light backpack use for my wife and myself only. The ability to have room to sleep comfortably, especially if we have the pole out of the way to be able to zip 2 bags together is great. Helps up the heat rating of the bags with 2 bodies together.

Stove up front somewhere would be nice, we often prefer to crawl into the bags and cook while laying in the bags.

Room for the backpacks/stuff sacks would be the grand thing too so I didn't have to stuff the packs outside and cover them with something else....

PS I can envision a kind of awning as a super place to sit outside, out of drizzle and such, and just relax as needed... for the weight of a few ounces possibly.

My version of what you're talking about

--thumper338

Yep thats a version for sure. Not for the wife and I but for me alone, that would easily suffice.

I've talked her into bivy bags before.... but getting the damn frost off the down bags in the AM sucks trying to get rolling for the elk and such.. back to the tipi type ideas...

Look a little closer and you'll see that this is very near to Kevin and Ed T's shelter... Here's another pic without the tarp on the font. The peak height is 8' and the footprint is roughly 8x10. My setup weighs a bit more, but it only set me back $50. This will be it's third season. If it does wear out I can replace the tarp for $15 and be good for another 3-4 years.

Thumper, That is real close to what I want to try and build for a few outings.. Can you please elaborate on what you are using for a stove jack and how you sewed it in if there is one?

Also what are you using on the tarp (where there's no grommets) to make a tie for the guy wires?

Oh yeah, I didn't argue it wasn't close. Just prefer them ready to go and lighter and less bulky than tarps.

But it works for you and thats all that matters. And the design shape looks great.

Before I'd go that route though personally, I'd buy some paranylon and sew my own for the savings.

I've shown this on here now and again for a few years now. The yellow portion was an I.D. silshelter that was always a bit to small for my tastes.

Mine is also 7 ft at the center pole which makes a great place to stand to get dressed and of course it's also really nice and warm up there if the door is closed.

I made mine easy to seal to the ground with a big sod skirt and by accident rather then design it sets up really quickly utilizing a long string off the bow "front" that is removed once it's staked out. (two stakes on the back corners, set the pole and up it goes) it makes it really easy to get a good pitch. "early photo before it was finished"



Nice work Ed and Kevin, I originally made mine to test the heated shelter idea before investing in the Kifaru but it worked so well I just kept it.

479.00 for that? You can do same thing with a 12.00 tarp. And have a floor for another 8.00 . Geez.

Here is a little video showing setup and setup variations

It looks like you guys hit a home run with that shelter and stove combo.unfortunately I've already got more shelters than I can justify.Best of luck
P.S.
Just in case I find that I have to have another.
,what is your lead time ?
Tim

4 - 8 weeks, sometimes sooner. Generally, we've been hitting 4 -6 weeks most times, sometimes if in stock it's a week or so.

thumper338,

What does that weigh?


Travis

Sometimes your tarp things just ain't the answer. I know I ain't packin 20 bucks of bulky heavy tarps back in on my backpack. At the truck, yeah no issues there...

Exactly, big difference between backpacking and setting up a camp. I think some folks confuse the two at times.

Kevin T's six man is running 3lbs ish. That is [bleep] LIGHT!!!


Travis

I should say too... besides bulk and weight, I don't want to be cutting new limbs/trees every night.

Some folks just hunt differently and thats what makes the difference as to what products are worth what amount of money to some folks.

ITs not that yours is wrong, but neither is the 500 dollar one.

I mean we backpack at times looking for elk.. and that means that camp goes with us all the time until we find elk... which means sometimes for the whole season, camp is in a different spot every night.

I don't have a postal scale. I've weighed it on the bathroom scale which measures in .5 lb increments. My 12x16 main tarp weighed 4 lbs. The awning tarp probably weighs 2-2.5 lbs. I use the awning as part of my packing system instead of a traditional backpack pack bag so that weight is a wash with what others may use. My stove weighs about 4 lbs with 8' stove pipe.

Not the lightest, but it works for me. I've been trying to source some silnylon or lightweight PU ripstop, but haven't found what I want at a price that won't have me in the doghouse with the wife.

That's lighter than I thunked. Thanks for the reply. You made the stove?


Travis

Here are a couple hastly snaped photos of inside the shelter.

I really need a wider angle lens to show the interior room, but I am sitting in the center in front of the stove with a sleeping bag at my side. There is as much room on the other side, plus room in the rear and lots of room still up front.

The things I miss when I take a 3 week hiatus to bowhunt and chase women

Nicely done Kevin and Ed. You two are costing me money on this for sure. I'm going to have to have one, simple as that. I've got a boatload of tents that are close to what i wanted. This one looks like what I've been after for a while, and its not 900 bucks.

Could be the picture, but it looks too small for 2 people to sleep side by side without the pole or stove or something getting in the way.

Two can sleep on either side behind the pole and stove and still b e away from the tent wall.

Are we shipping yet? I'm like a kid at Christmas and getting really close to departure for my trip.

Dan, you don't need one, just invite me on all your trips and I'll bring mine!

No kidding, try that when your high up in the mountains where the biggest tree is a 1" think alder, they don't make for good tent poles.

We are shipping some of them. They should be going out shortly. Some of it depends on if you have a door with it, or seam sealing service. I've had a production one around for a few days and am very happy with it.

Here is a video, with the optional door panel added in

LOL @ you're dog doing tricks trying to get on TV...

On a serious note, you guys got a heck of a good looking shelter here.. I may have to save some coin and try one out next year...I am liking the idea of wood stove heat for special outings more and more...

It almost looks like a mix of the Sawtooth with other goodness. I like the CB and think the price is reasonable. Ed/Kevin can one person sleep on each side? 7 feet tall in the center is nice. Have you guys tested it under snow load and winds? Looks great guys.

Hi Woods

CB ? Coyote ? It's actually a Taupe, and I think Ed could explain the differences in color better than I can. I can't say much about the sawtooth comparison, since I've never seen one in person. I can say it's based of a George Tarp, which had been previously tested in wind and snow. We tightened up the pitch, changed some guyout points, changed some angles a bit for more options and stability as well as changed the door, added a sod skirt, storm flap, dedicated vent and added an option for a larger door panel. The pole is the same as our 4 person tipi, which has proven solid

CB = Coyote Brown which looks like Taupe but no matter the name I like it. I remember ID made a George Tarp once. How is the cone reinforced?

Looks like THE two man shelter to me.

The cone is Dyneema Gridstop 8 ounce, essentially ends up being three layers, an outside cone, then a smaller inside cone, and then a small pole boot section. Plenty sturdy.

I believe this is going to be my setup for next falls sheep hunt into the Wrangells. Need to sell my Marmot first though.

Mine came in today (that was FAST!), and along with Ed T's stove, gonna give the heated shelter another chance this winter. I didn't get the optional door, but I'll play with it awhile to see if I need one.
Don

Hey EdT,

Could you compare and contrast this shelter to the Kifaru Sawtooth. Looks quite similar on paper, and of course I'd want to go with the lighter option, providing it can sleep 2 side by side. Planning to use a large air mattress (double or queen?) for 2 people, as opposed to single pads.

You want an UL state-of-the art backpackable heated shelter, but your primary selection criteria is that it be compatible with a Coleman chinese blow up mattress? And somebody is supposed to give you a serious answer? Where will your mattress porter sleep?

Tam,

There is plenty of room for side by side sleeping in the BC shelter.

As far as comparisons between the BC and the Sawtooth, there are differences and there are similarities. They both offer walk in head room, built in stove jacks, guy out points, made in the USA of American material, etc.
The BC is smaller in space, lighter, has an optional, zip-in expander panel to make it a 4 man shelter and costs less.

They are both, IMO excellent shelters. As I stated in the introduction of the BC Shelter, I was looking for the lightest, 7' tall, two man shelter. My experiences with a modified ID George tarp led to the collaboration between Kevin and myself and the Ed T/ Seekoutside Backcountry Shelter.

I don't want to get into a point by point review of the two, as I obivously have an interest in the BC shelter and therefore I wouldn't come across as unbiased. I have no doubt that you would be happy with either. To me, a slightly smaller living area was worth the 1 3/4 lb weight savings.

TAK,

Not sure where you got that it was a "Coleman chinese blow up mattress" (of which there is nothing wrong with). And I don't know about you, but for me, sharing gear is a great way to reduce weight, complexity and bulk.

EdT,

Thanks for the info, I'm sure it's a great shelter. If the quality is anything like your stoves, there's no doubt that it'll be excellent.

I'm sorry, I get it now. A sixty inch wide blow up mattress for two people is an excellent way to do that, regardless of the country of origin. I'm sure there is a US made UL version for sale somewhere.

I'd love to know of a small double mattress since my wife and I often hunt together. I'd love that mattress, and then we could look into a light but good double bag, sharing a bag and pad would in the end save some weight and other issues.

If you can give us a link I"d appreciate.

Damn all this costs me money all the time...

I think taking a sleep number for car camping would rock

Yes, sharing a quilt can save a lot of weight, you only need about 25 % more material, and you get a higher warmth rating as well, since two bodies are creating heat, theoretically, insulation can be cut in half, but in reality, it's probably more like a 40 % reduction. So for instance, the same amount of insulation that a single person requires for 30 degrees, should get two people to 15 - 30 degrees below zero, assuming the same amount of space.

As for a pad, take two inflatables and attach them with a webbing in 2 or 3 spots.

Thats what we do now, attach, but there is the crack in the middle that can and will give a cold spot.. if i could find a backpacking size/weight, that would do away with that seem, and really wouldn't have to be super wide anyway, I'd buy it and see...

Even putting 2 seperate pads in a big sleeve can give you that cold crack issue...

Just thinking out loud here..

Folders gave me two really good links, to provide a custom maker of a mat/pad for 2 folks, and a link to a nice down blanket, instead of wasting the extra material of the sleeping bag that you compress to no insulation alwyas.

Very nice links and waiting for a price on the custom pad.

Jeff

rost495:

If one of the links he gave you was Bender from BackPackingLight.com forums, I can vouch for his work. I have a custom single-wide down mattress that he made for me, and it is very nice.

Scott

Ray Jardine and his wife have been doing that for a couple decades at least. He sells a 2-person synthetic quilt kit. Jacks R'Better sells a down one. Quilts only work well for normal people down to freezing or a little below, unless you incorporate something that approximates the insulation of a sleeping bag hood into a vest or jacket. The JRB down hood velcroed onto a down vest is what many use. I think that was Francis Tapon's system on his CDT yo-yo.

If only my wife was into the sharing idea, she says I'm a cover stealer and she doesn't want to risk it, I say she is a cover giver

Is that made of bug net or can this be had in silnylon as well?

Wood's,

It both. A zip in sil door panel with bug netting.

Sounds great. Is the shelter's zipper a #8 YKK like on the Paratipi?

It's a number 5 ykk on the BCS, separating. On other shelters they are a #8.

Just got mine today. Box looks like the usps used it as a parking stop for a couple of days, but the contents appear to be in good shape. Can't wait for daylight to come, so I can set it up.

Looking forward to the pics Biathlonman!! Need to check with Kevin to see what the ETA is on my BCS. Really looking forward to seeing this thing in person.

Just spent 10 days on Kodiak in the Kifaru Sawtooth with a few days of 50+mph sustained winds as well as snow and everything else. I was digging the style of shelter for sure so it will be fun to see how they compare and the pluses and minuses of each.

Alaskalanche, I think there's a quote of you saying:
"Pics to follow in 11 days"


I'm anxiously awaiting!

HAHA....I'll post some teaser pics tonight and work on the story in coming days....will that suffice

I'll take what I can get!

Any reason for that? Unless I have my zipper sizes mixed up I think a larger #8 might perform better if iced over and hold up longer than a smaller #5 for not that much more bulk and weight. But then again I could be wrong.

The 5 should be sufficiently strong, it's also a separating zipper to allow adding the additional door. The weight while minimal would become more once we added in the extra door panel etc. We cover the zipper, to prevent a lot of blow in etc.

Any user pics or reviews out there now that people have tested the shelter out?

Hi WoodsWalker

There is a review in the works and it should be published sometime this month. It should be very detailed.

March.... I'll be putting in an orde in March mister Kevin

Probably in MAR for me as well. I've decided that a Golite SL3 is a marginal shelter for two guys and a stove, though it's great for solo and a stove. The BCS is the next lightest set up.

Got my BCS in the mail the other day. Open teh package and only got as far as weighing it today.

The shelter with the extra panel came to 48.7 oz in the stuff sack.

Carbon pole was 10.2 in the bag. And the stakes that came with it were 4.4 oz in the stake bag.

Ground a bit too frozen to set up in my freshly plowed driveway but hope to set it up soon...

A/L,

A report, with pictures is required (when you have time). Very interested in this thing....

And, if this weather keeps up, you should have a nice slush pile to set it up in!

Yes, I like to hear Lanche's take on this shelter, especially since he's logged some time in a Sawtooth lately for a comparison.

Here is a two person nest integrated into the BCS . The nest weighs 17.6 ounces. It is a bit wider than others, so it will accept 2 25" pads. It also has DWR on 3 sides. The stove in the photo is Ed's Rollup stove.


Note: it's pretty frosty we hit about 10 below last night.

nice nest tent, this is what I want.
when will it available?

Me likey the nest, how much more does the nest weigh?

17.6 ounces on my scale, which seems pretty accurate.

I will check on availability, could produce them tomorrow if need be, but realistically, we are working through orders and to be conservative I would say after the new year for shipping. We can probably pre-order but I need to get Angie's sign off. I can get exact times by the end of the week.

I like the nest as well, in fact if going to canyon country where alcoves are plentiful, the nest is all you really need in fair weather. I will attempt to get more photo's in the next few days. I suspect it could integrate in with our breakaway tarp vestibule as well, but I need to confirm.

I like the nest too...what will the cost be?

That right there is very interesting. Would love to see more pictures of it. I would assume that it was designed to work in the larger shelters as well, thinking 6 and 8 man.

I have the half nest for my Seekoutside 8 man, I like it a lot.

Kevin,

Good to see the nest fits in there so nicely. Have no doubt that my narrower nest I currently own will fit in there like a glove. Should be a good shelter.

Yes it is designed to be used with the larger shelters as well.

Skunkworks alert:
Here is a proto, with a tarp vestibule attached. This is NOT a waterproof configuration. It is a DWR fabric on the nest, and waterproof vestibule. The vestibule , does not close up totally tight to the nest, however, this should in many instances, provide a lot of weather resistance. I was curious, if it would work well to cover the front, and it does work reasonably well.

Lord knows I've put together a whole lot worse in a pinch...

The above skunkwork configuration, would probably suffice well in a light to medium rain or moderate snow. High winds, heavy rain , blowing snow etc it wouldn't fair so well.

'splain this "nest" idea....

Large floorless shelter (enabling safe use of a woodstove) with a floored bugnet enclosed area (the nest) when conditions dictate. Typically you'd use one or the other, but I could envision trips to AK where both might be handy.

I especially like the low observable OD color. I once had a tent stolen when I was out hunting and believe that the bright colors just made it more noticeable.

I can't imagine what kind of low life would steal a tent. It is amazing sometimes. Personally, I need the bright colors or I'd walk right by mine!

4lb. 10 oz. SWEET

I always figure anyone who would steal from an armed man is either very brave, or has a death wish.

I understand 333WIN. I'm getting there myself.

If that happened to me and the guy was in rifle range, I figure lethal force is warranted. I mean, that individual is trying to kill me

I did have somebody stay the night in my tent once, I bivy'ed up at a higher elevation trying to stay in with Elk, when I returned the next day the bed was made and the dishes were done and the stack of firewood grew.


I keep tuning into this thread. I still lust after that tent

Ed and or Kevin

Could you please break down the weights for me?

Canopy?
Carbon fiber pole?
Stakes?

What stakes come with it?
Some places I hunt it is possible to leave the pole at home. That's why I was wondering the weight.

Thanks

I have a couple of bug bivi's from Mountain Laurel Designs that I'll be trying in mine.
Don

There ya go from what measured on my scale in their associated stuff sacks.

Hey Luke
What about the canopy with out the extra panel?

Add on panel was 12' ounces when I weighed it

Ed,

My production canopy weighs 35.5 oz.

Ed T and Kevin
What stakes are you using with the Backcountry Shelter.

Ed,

Kevin will chime in if I am wrong, but I believe they have gone to the Easton Nano peg which I believe weigh 10 grams each.

Easton has improved the bond on the head which was my only complaint on the older Easton pegs. You can drive them in about anything and they hold better than a Durapeg.

Yes nano not avail until Jan