...not necessarily for Surviving a cold wet night

I was thinking about what gear to pack for an unexpected overnight where you are caught in the dark too far away from camp/home or the vehicle. Do you just bring a powerful headlamp and get back to camp regardless?

What would you carry in your day pack for such a thing or is that scenario too improbable?

PS. I guess I have been reading too much Whelen

Never bet your life on getting back to camp. How far can you walk with a sprained ankle?
Hypothermia can get you. You MUST stay dry. 2 large leaf bags can do that. Pull one over your legs and cut a face hole in the other to go over your top.
If it's cold or if you get wet, several kinds of fire starter stuff is needed. Don't rely on just a book of matches.
I always carry a 2d light of some kind. Have you ever tried to change batteries or a bulb in the dark?

True to all that Rock Chuck

It's amazing how easily I can get turned around even on my own land. When I have been out in the damp and late dimming light (just NE woods - no wind blown mountain tops for me), I have always thought that I'd rather not keep walking and instead start with a fresh mind (not panicky) when there is lots of light. Even with a flashlight, woods are woods and it is difficult to see visual gross landmarks through tree trunks and leaves.

One of the things I've noticed is how folks really stress the importance of fires. I easily concede that fires are a great and important tool but if I am not wet I'd rather have a sleeping bag, pad and tarp in a bivy kit than an axe to process fuel for a fire. I hear you on the garbage bags because they are light and cheap. These days though, you have so many options of ridiculously light (albeit expensive) gear that allows you to practically bring a full camp with you in your emergency day pack.

Anyways - just mulling.

While hunting, I often carry my pro lite torso pad, or a small eva pad and a quilt and a really good fire kit. I figure if it sucks enough, I can get under a tree, use some branches and spend a night. With day clothes and such, I should be able to make it to 20 or so, if I can stay out of the wind or moisture.

Anyone ever consider the AMK SOL escape bivvy?

I had seen those at REI. Those really look like great in letting you be out there comfortably and they're only about 8.5 oz and 50 bucks.

The cuben fiber bivy bags I have seen are at about 5oz for around $150 and up, it seems. So, less than half the weight at more than 3 times the price is the math going on in my head.

I'd still bring a tarp and sleeping bag + pad though. I've been making a list just now I would also add a small billy pot, instant Vaio coffee packets, a bunch of protein bars and maybe at least 2 freeze dried meals.

A "survival" outing is just camping if you are warm and eating

I have one and used it in tandem with my sleeping bag. It was nice. I was in a tent and on a pad, but I think it kept me a bit warmer.

For 50 bucks why not.

I plan to investigate these products:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiZCjiLqqYw

These things are "super" space blankets that use elastic to trap air in addition to reflecting body heat like an ordinary space blanket. They are designed by Montbell and made here until their liscense.

As soon as you start adding sleeping bags, etc, you no longer have a day pack but an overnight pack which, by definition, is heavier and less apt to be on your back when you take a quick hike to look for tracks or something. A well stocked pack in camp is pretty useless.
A few years ago in AK, a hunting party was camped on the beach of one of the islands. One sunny, warm afternoon a young guy and his wife decided to run up the hill to look for new sign. Since it was so nice, they took only a rifle. At the top of the hill, heavy fog rolled in and they got totally lost for 10 days. They survived but barely. A light day pack with the essentials would have saved them a whole lot of 'discomfort'.

No one said anything about taking a sleeping bag in their day pack. I just happened to use it with my bag at camp.

I was referring to the AMK SOL escape bivvy......

http://www.campmor.com/adventure-me...p;ci_sku=89915&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=

Which is basically a waterproof lightweight (it weighs 8.1 ounces) bivvy (that would replace one of those cheapass mylar blankets).

But whatever...

Poncho liner is the chit for all kinds of reasons.

Actually, I said taking a quilt and small torso pad for days when I think there is a decent probability I won't come back. 2 lbs ish , and honestly I usually carry the torso pad for sitting when snow is on the ground anyway, so 1.5 lbs for the quilt. The torso pad is in my pack a lot anyway.

I definitely would bring a sleeping bag and full pad now that I think about it more. I bet I could get the entire day pack to still be about 10 lbs - with pack and food.

The Blizzard Survival Blanket weighs a pound, and is shrink-wrapped in a 2x4x9inch package. The bag is smaller yet. The beauty of these things is, THEY CAN STAY PACKED in your daypack/EDC bag. You can't do that with a quilt, not unless you plan to trash it periodically.

I have two packs, a smaller single strap and a 2200cc regular pack for bigger woods and colder temps. Also, no matter which pack I'm carrying I have a 3rd of a camping mat which I use to sit on when I find a good stand. Both of them have the heavy duty emergency blankets and a survival kit, which includes but is not limited to survival matches, bic lighter and magnesium fire starter as well as multiple small candles that have a 4 hour burn time. In my larger pack I also carry a tarp. I may not have a comfortable night, but I will survive.

Yep, 1.5 pound quilt, 12 oz tarp, and 8 oz CCF pad....2.75 pounds of worth it in my pack everytime I leave camp. So nice when you get up somewhere in the animals and get one down knowing that you have the option to stay on the mountain in relative comfort takes a lot of stress off and opens up options indeed.

Insulation that you carry is a known quantity. Relying on fire to save your skin can get you dead or make for a very long cold restless night.

Have you ever spent 8 or 9 hours gathering enough firewood to keep a fire going and still sleep?

Good luck with that, me I would rather bundle up and sleep all night.

You should already be carrying or wearing most of what you need to spend a night out.

Tarp
Base layer
Insulation layer
Hard shell
Warm hat
Warm gloves
Spare pair of socks
Neck gaiter or shemagh

Add a Kifaru Woobie/Doobie or a quilt and you are golden. Even with adding in a foam torso pad you still keep total weight down to a reasonable level.

Leave the kitchen sink at home when you load your day pack and it won't break the mule.

I would never underestimate the value of fire. Gathering fire wood for an entire night can be a huge task, but not if you light a big stump on fire. You can often find big stumps from burned or dead trees that have the base and root system intact. This is usually pitchy, hot wood that will burn for hours.
That said, I agree on bringing some extra gear with you. I really like the HPG Serape' but struggled with the bulk until I started carrying it in an air purge roll top dry bag, a 5 liter size works.

Getting stuff to burn at 10k+ ft when it's been raining or snowing can be a challenge. I would not bet my survival on it.

I always have two light sources, a compass, water, water purification and some snacks, lighter, a small medical kit, game cleaning kit (game bags, knives, wipes) and enough insulation to survive.

It's always better to be prepared...These poor women died two miles from the trailhead parking lot and one mile from each other with their dogs still in their truck. You never know when a "short hike" will turn into a survival situation.

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Amy-Linkert-Jo-Elliot-Blakeslee-Boise-Missing-225210532.html

Packs vary based on terrain but I usually have fire starting capabilities, a Snickers, water, ammo, and a spotting scope.


Travis

And a headlamp...



Travis

I usually have a poncho/tarp which can be rigged as a shelter. A length of cord for rigging. A fire kit in an Altoids tin, (which we've discussed on here in other dedicated threads) and usually a large trash bag and one of those cheap mylar "space" blankets. It would be a last resort insulation and could be rigged as a reflector if I built a fire. I have an extra headlamp. I also usually carry a titanium emberlit stove and a stainless steel cup. A ziplock baggy with tea and or cocoa mix, instant oatmeal, and a packet of cup-o-soup completes my "basic necessities if I had to stay out overnight" kit.

Now, typically I have a lot more than that in my hunting pack.

If it's cold, I have an LL Bean down vest that will stuff down small and weighs very little.

Speaking of the Emberlit stove, this thing weighs about 5 1/2 ozs. and goes with me everywhere, even as a backup when I'm using a canister or white gas stove. It's flat and actually throws out some heat. It boils water with twigs and could be used with some type of reflector(cheap mylar space blanket) to provide a little heat without having to gather a night of firewood. You would have to constantly feed it small sticks but could be a lifesaver. Heck, I take it with me on cold hunt days and sometimes take a midday break and have a cup of coffee.
We've discussed it before but here's a link: http://www.emberlit.com/

For late fall in the mountains w/ potential for wet snow or rain.
1. goretex rain suit, outer layer moving or sitting.
2. 1/2" ensolite pad to fit inside pack.
3. survival kit/firestarters appropriate for the conditions in a small aluminum pan w/ lid. Add trioxane heat tabs wrapped in vaseline soaked cotton.
4.personal 1st aid kit w/quickclot gauze, 3 triangular bandages,moleskin and bandaids.
5.Best headlamp you can find w/ extra batteries.
6. Primaloft vest and puffy jacket in waterproof bag.
7. smartwool neck gaiter, balaclava, and fleece gloves in waterproof bag.
8.hd space blanket or tarp.

put on everything, sit on your pad, make some coffee and glass for hours in comfort or spend the night w/ a broken ankle.

I wear wool and synthetics. I always have a hat, gloves, gaiter etc. with me if not wearing them. I'm a still hunter so wearing gortex or other types of shells in the Northeast means they are not an option to me due to noise unless the wind is howling.

With regard to gathering fire wood, I will if I have time but that is why I carry a heavy duty emergency blanket and candles. If push comes to shove, I will sit under my emergency blanket, prop a stick or two on my back/shoulders to leave an air gap between me/blanket and have my candle creating heat inside. I carry enough candles for 16 hours of constant burn.

Just my 2 cents - and you get what you pay for, but different regions require different equipment due to hunting conditions, etc. But I'm preparing for survival not comfort.

Very interesting thread and some very valid points.

I can see almost two schools of thought shaping up..In one school you have the folks who don't plan to stay out over night and carry enough kit to cope with an "emergency".

On the other, you have folks envisage they might want to stay out, so are carrying a little bit more to enable them to be a bit more comfortable..As RC mentions, they are almost straying from a day pack to an over night pack..

I tend to be in the bare bones emergency camp, but would carry more depending on the terrain & predicted weather conditions..

Nobody so far has mentioned emergency signalling kit..In addition to a cell phone and/or an FRS radio, I also carry a whistle, a small double sided signal mirror and a strobe. Previous experience has shown that a strobe and spar e batteries can be a real life saver..

Yes, what Lanche does is called "spiking out" or preparing to make a "spike-camp" away from another camp. In that case, he has the option of taking some of his overnite kit with him. A day hunter, hunting from a truck at a trailhead, will not likely be so equipped. That is the guy that needs something like the Blizzard Bag/Blanket, a solid rain-proof shelter, and a no-[bleep] fire kit. He's also the likely a lot less prepared than the former type.

Lanche and I carry pretty similar but I don't know if i would call it a spike camp. I usually carry the torso pad so the only real difference is the quilt which is sometimes carried. Sometimes if I find animals it might be just sit and wait strategy and sometimes it is not warm period , so it has its uses as the sun goes down and the wind kicks up regardless of spending the night

Just curious, but why do some many here favour quilts over a light weight sleeping bag?

I'm kinda in between.

I love me my Kifaru Doobie because it is dual use and I thus tend to bring it anyway, being both sedentary, coverall, warm clothing and also very good sleeping gear. It's one of the best, useful and important pieces of gear I have. I would take a proper sleeping bag any night over just a quilt though.

I agree that it all depends on one's own, specific locales and personal assessments of skill and risk... and tolerance for latter. A lot of the danger factor for me is obliterated if I just bring an overnight camp kit. The big bogey of "can I start a fire" is removed from the equation. There is less overall stress and thus more likelihood of clear thought. You may need it or not. The overriding factor is can you make the overnight gear light and unobtrusive enough to always bring with you. That's the fun part

Above freezing I favor a quilt. Below freezing a bit I could go either way. Day hunts possibly staying out I favor it's utility. Single digits and below I favor my house

When elk hunting in CO, I carry a space blanket, a 5x7 tarp and a lightweight bivy sack along with stuff to start a fire. All this weighs around 2.5 lbs and fits nicely with the normal items I carry in my day pack. On my more "local" deer hunts, I carry only a space blanket. I always carry a first-aid kit.

With the right one you can do this:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Jacks-R-Better-Sierra-Sniveller

Their quilts can now be ordered with Active-Dry down. My next will be a summer weight with dry down. I envision using it year round.

I carry one of those SOL things, or something like it. Strikes me as an appropriate name, but I've never used it. We usually have a bunch of layers with us (insulation, rain gear). That stuff is so light now that it just makes sense, and I could likely survive pretty cold temps with it overnight, but I hope I don't have to.

That being said, plan A is still to get back to whatever camp, and sleep in a tent. Headlamp and a backup light are easy to justify, especially if you've been without one. I carry firestarters (VSC), but have never had to use it in a real emergency. Fire is frequently impractical in sheep country, although moose country usually has lots of good wood.

I'm planning to sew up some silnylon tarps this winter, and will probably add one of those to my "always in the pack" list.