I've been a big fan of Cliff Bars as trail food when I spend the day in the mountains. Nothing else I've tried had the staying power of them. Most trail bars that I've tried don't provide enough calores and tend to have alot of sugar. Which means you can get an insulin spike and not much sustaining energy.
But now I've found something else. For me, I'll use these new ones because I've developed a sensitivity to soy products. Otherwise I'd still be eating them.
They are the Off The Farm trailbars. They come in three different flavors and they provide about 220 calores each. They even taste better the Cliff Bars. The bad news is they are expensive, about $27 per dozen......
BTW, I don't get an insulin spike that other trail bars give me when I eat Nature Valley Fruit & Nut Bars. Might be because they use High Maltose Corn Syrup as their sugar source. I understand this is true of some of such corn syrup products. E

Where can you find them?

I wish I could find a "true" energy bar. Cliff bars just don't quite get it for me. I still eat them, but don't particularly "like" them. They also seem heavy for backpacking. Grab two a day for four days and you have some significant weight there. On a cold morning you can't even bite them unless you put it in your pocket for a while first, or your bag and I already sleep with my IsoButane canister!

Go to a typical outdoor store and the selection of "energy" bars is overwhelming. I wouldn't know where to start.

I use the GU gels, which are fine for energy but it's not like actually eating a snack.

Clif is building a huge factory here so its probably all we'll see on the shelves when it opens.

I've started making my own based on this recipe:

http://honest-food.net/2014/01/02/homemade-energy-bar-recipe/

I'm sure they don't weigh less, and I know they probably cost the same or more than other options, but I like the taste and having the option of altering the ingredients as I choose. Mine end up saltier than sweet.

Grab one of everything, and eat them for lunch/etc. (Preferably when you are within 50 yards of a toilet). It is really nice to learn that something doesn't work for you while you are in civilization. Take notes.

Do the same at walmart. (I mean buy a bunch of bars, not try a bunch of bars and use their toilet).

In any case, I much prefer to have a variety, rather than a whole case of one kind of thing.

I pretty much hate cliff bars. Something about them tastes like chemicals to me. I end up with a mix of nature valley (rock hard "crunchy" bars and the other ones), Kind bars, superfood "meal" bars (ha!), snickers, protein bars, a couple power bars, etc.

I am a big fan of "Balance Bars." They are not overly sweet and have a fair amount of protein. I can eat one to replace a meal. They hold me over very well and I don't get a sugar rush. They are not lightweight, but for a quick meal on the run, they are about the best I have tried. All of the others, including Cliff Bars, are too sweet for my taste.

While making bars at home from hand picked ingredients is the best option, albeit, the most labor intensive option as well, Pro Bar has some good products out there. A "meal replacement" bar with 350+ calories, a protein bar and an energy bar. Some of the marketing states organic, whole grain, etc., etc. Gets high marks and good reviews from lots of Amazon customers.

I suppose just another option to store bought bars but seems better than the ones filled with sugar and no substance.

+1 on Probars. Take a little foil packet of almond butter to spread on them and you have a 600 calorie package the size of a hockey puck.

The average person will burn over 500 calories per hour carrying a pack while hiking the hills. A bar with only around 220 doesn't cut it.

That's true but it doesn't tell the whole story. And that is the fact that most of us carry plenty of fat to help us deal with that level of activity. One pound of fat has about 3500 calores.
So what you need is to keep your blood sugar level up and slow down to allow you to breath well enough to use those fat reserves.
I plan about three of the above bars plus some Nature Valley bars for a day in the mountains. That's about 660 calores from the Off the Farm Bars and another 400 or so from the NV bars. That, with the meals I eat in camp or at home, I get by well enough. E

Fat burn is for when one goes into survival mode and you will be weakened in the process. It is not for immediate energy needs during a hard hunt.

You can reduce your amount of fat with a long term diet and exercise program, but relying on body fat to get you thru a hard day will leave you drained.

I kind of settled on 5-6 bars a day, with overflow coming from a couple 3/4lb bags of jerkey and a ziplock of trail mix for lunch (everything between breakfast and dinner). 3 packets of instant oatmeal for breakfast, and a Mountain House for dinner. I still lost 14 lbs this year sheep hunting, but haven't found a way around that yet.

Working like you are, you practically can't eat too much and a couple bars, regular meals and fat stores wouldn't allow you to do what you do. You need energy right now and you have to eat it to get it.

I hope never to have to use a Walmart toilet.

Frankly, I rarely ever eat anything that is a gutbomb and causes that reaction in me, at least not that quickly. I did try Fiber One bars once. Man, I could have filled the Hindenburg with the gas.

Agreed. I took nut packs from costco at 330 calories a pack. Also some pemmican bars at 440 a bar.

Snickers or Reece's Peanutbutter Cups are my energy bars

No, Battue. That's not what I said. I said one's fat stores help with added calores as to how many calores one burns in a day. I've also stated, several times, that consumption or use of fat for energy depends on sufficent oxygen and the presence of glucose, blood sugar, in one's body. The body burns fat all of the time, not just when one is in "survival mode."
"Survival mode" that you describe sounds alot like starvation posture. That occurs when the body runs out of glucose and has to consume one's muscle tissue after converting it to glucose.
Odviously that needs to be avoided. E

I make my own. Not sure the amounts, but here's what's in them:

Oatmeal (maybe around 2 cups)
Chia seeds
Apple Sauce
Dried Cranberries
Dried Apricots
Walnuts
Scoop of Vanilla Protein Powder
Coconut oil (about 1/4 cup; warm it until its liquid)
cinnamon and/or nutmeg if the mood strikes


I grind the dry and dried ingredients in a blender. Dump it all in a bowl and add the coconut oil. Then add applesauce and mix by hand until it holds it's own shape. Put in a muffin tin and bake at 350. My wife calls them "power pucks"

One of these and a smoothie will hold you until lunch. Not that you'll have a smoothie while hunting, but you get the point. Cheap to make too....

That'll make a turd!!!.......sounds good, I may have to try that recipe.

My bud is doing 30 miles on the AT this weekend with Probars and peanut butter. That's a damn dense meal right there...

Your bud sounds like one smart dude......

I figure if he can't crap for a week I'll know not to try it.

E,
No sense in saying one would do anything different than what you think works.

Do it your way, but once again I'll take my clues from those who are burning big calories and give credence to how they make it thru the day. Why? Because they prove over and over that it works.

When you are sucking air for extended periods you are burning calories big time and best replace them right now. Under such circumstances you are even burning higer than normal cals when at rest. Pass the high cal plate to me and I'll worry about burning off the fat when I get home.

Read it and weep.

The University of Michigan Medical School says that, after about 30 minutes, you switch to burning fat stores for energy. A long moderate aerobic session lightens your fat load and brings you a few steps closer to those skinny jeans. But if the exercise is high-intensity or you are not consuming enough calories, your body will convert protein from muscle fiber into energy. Instead of burning fat, you devour muscle tissue. Which fuel your body burns first -- muscle or fat -- depends on the way you structure your weight loss or fitness plan.

These boys climbing the mountains for long days on end are on a high intensity fitness plan, and need the calories and lots of them right now. Perhaps you and I who tend not to push all that hard for extended periods will obviously get by on less. However, your one mind set fits all circumstance really does get old. Plus most are just flat out wrong.

You were recently told your thoughts on scopes were lost in the mist of the 90s.
Sorry Dude, but most of your exercise/food principles are back there also. You owe it to these young Bucks to do better.

For myself, hand me the calories, creatine, amino acids, nitrous oxide, fat and protein when the going gets hard.

Tell me about creatine.

The good and the possibly bad.

Creatine is a naturally occurring substance that occurs in meats. It is converted to creatine phosphate and then to ATP-adrenotriphosphate????-I.E. energy which is used for cellular muscle contractions.

Some don't get enough in the diet and high level performance athletes burn it up fast. Thus some feel that supplementation is beneficial. It has some downsides in that long term use will probably cause a weight gain if you are not burning it off rapidly. The weight gain is probably mainly due to water retention.

I don't use it on a daily basis, but only if doing a hard workout or will be physically active for an extended period of time.

A quick overview of creatine.

http://www.webmd.com/men/creatine

Did a little further research and E is not completely wrong. We always burn some fat, but as the exercise intensity increases the percentage that comes from fat decreases and the percentage from muscle protein increases.

Still, those boys who are busting azz need to quickly replace the cals they are burning at a much higher than normal rate if they are going to be able to keep going.

I had one experience on a Goat hunt that taught me a lesson. We came back after 14hours of climbing under load and I was beat. The guide said we need to eat and I said I need to sleep I'll eat in the morning. He said eat and I said good night. The next day I was pretty much done in and stayed that way until I filled up the tank. You can't go far on empty.

Thanks for the info. Guy at work has mentioned it. I thought it was more for muscle building/bulk as he works out quite a bit and is somewhat of a gym rat.

Reading your info on WebMD, and according to what you say, I'm reading more of an energy boost type product, with the additional effect of muscle building and faster muscle recovery.

Which piques my interest. I've finally thrown in the towel and bowed to the wishes of my orthopedic surgeon and quit jogging. My knees are thanking me.

I'm doing a bit of mtn biking now, something I've wanted to do for a few years in addition to the road biking I do.
I've lost 25 lbs.
Most days, I can show up the guys 14 years younger than me, just leaving them behind. Other days, seems I struggle, especially climbing. Most of the "energy" drinks focus on electrolyte replenishment, sodium, potassium, with some B vitamins, etc. I also keep a Clif bar in my pocket and break off bites during rest stops.

This creatine sounds like it may actually produce a real energy boost with the benefit of faster muscle recovery.

Mtn biking is like sprints. Short durations of intense effort (climbing) followed by short durations of less intense cardio effort (downhill) with some rest stops/fluid replenishment thrown in. This cycle is repeated for the duration of the ride but only rarely is the stop long enough for the heart to return to normal.

Most of our trips are 15-20 miles unless it is a particularly steep or difficult trail. The riding app on my phone tracks my speed, elevation changes, my weight/age and calculates calories burned. Typical ride is 1200-1600 calories in about a 3-4 hour span (I do question the accuracy of this).

I usually have sore muscles for 3-4 days. I can usually throw in a road ride or a shorter mtn bike ride within a day or two but I can definitely feel it and it takes 4 days or better for a full recovery.

So, I'm wondering if this creatine will give me more energy during the ride and help speed up recovery in the days following a 15-20 mile ride.

Hmmmm.
First congrats on what is really an impressive workout routine.

I would really like to get into the biking thing, but I couldn't be happy leaving the Dog behind and the country around here isn't conducive to having him following with the traffic. However there are some long hiking trails that follow old railroad tracks that it would work. Have one friend who is heavily into biking and he is in better than excellent shape when combined with his resistance training.

Sometimes I dream of again running loose on the trails, but it is just dream.


Not so sure that creatine gives me much of an energy boost that I can feel. I look at it as more of a sneaky supplement that may be working and I can't really put a finger on. But like I mentioned I only use it sparingly when I think it may help. It may be a mind game and nothing more, but the way I use it I'm not worried about it causing any harm.

I can give you a suggestion on something that will give you an energy rush and that would be Nitrous Oxide powder. The theory is that it causes the blood carrying vessels to expand. Works on the same principle as Viagra and Cialis, but unfortunately not specific to their effect.

However, I would caution you to perhaps check with your physician and get their ok. If your blood pressure and heart are good they may give you the go ahead to at least try it. Sounds like they are. Again, I only use it when I think I may need it, but for myself it WORKS.

Again congrats on keeping at it and I think biking is one of the best ways to work on endurance. Throw in some resistance training to keep muscle tone and with being blest with good health you may extend your hunting years long past the rest of the guys our age.

Good book on all this would be "Evolution" by Joe Manganiello. Progressing to the end of his workouts isn't necessary. The first couple weeks repeated consistently will do wonders. He also discusses the various supplements and the importance of eating correctly for energy and strength.

GNC is the place to purchase any of the supplements. They do extensive testing to ensure what the label says is in there. Also the majority of the products they sell are legal for use in college and pro sports.

Another supplement-and one that our Docs in the hospital use frequently on pediatric patients-would be CoEnzyme Q. One of it benefits would be an increase of ATP for energy. It is found primarily in the heart, liver and kidneys when we are younger, but as we age we make less of it. There are thought to be additional benefits of having an adequate supply of CoEnzyme Q. Have yet to read about any negative downside in taking it.

Addition: CoQ is for the long term every day benefit it may give.

At a certain point, usually where one cannot whistle a tune or keep up a conversation because he is breathing too hard, the body basically stops burning fat and runs on straight glucose. Since most of us can't store more than 1200-1400 calores worth of glucose in the form glycogen, the body runs out of glycogen/glucose and must convert proteins into glucose. That, in turn, robs the body of the proteins/amino acids needed to repair, or rebuild the body.
So it is very important to keep the bodyt well supplied with those food items which can maintain one's glucose levels. Complex carbohyrates do this much more easily and better than proteins.
Yes, eating before hitting the sack, especially after a tough day in the mountains, is always best. Eating the proper foods throughout the day also helps alot. E

I've been using creatine for a few years. I don't think it will give you an energy boost. My reaction was that I reached a new plateau in weight lifting with it.

Here you go, a listing of the best, how many are backpck friendly? Remember you need to more than a little for a long hike.

Foods Rich in Complex Carbohydrates

Asparagus Broccoli
Bagel Brussels
Carrots Buckwheat
Celery Cabbage
Dill pickles Cucumber
Lentils Eggplant
Low fat yogurt Garbanzo beans
Okra Granary bread
Oranges Macaroni
Pitta bread Pinto beans
Potatoes Porridge oats
Whole grain cereals Yams
Wild rice Zucchini
All bran Bananas
Almonds Black beans
Apples Cassava
Apricots Dried Coleslaw
Collard greens Grapefruit
Corn Kidney beans
Dry beans Museli
Flax seeds Oat bran cereal
Grapefruit Oatcakes
Lettuce Onions
Multi-grain bread Peppers, sweet
Navy beans Root vegetables
Pistachio nuts Shredded wheat
Pumpkin seeds Skim milk
Radishes Sunflower seeds
Ryvita crispbread Sweet potato
Soybeans Tomato
Spaghetti Turnip greens
Summer water Walnuts
Winter squash Cress
Whole meal bread Wheetabix

Yup, that looks like my menu for a three-day trip.

Except Wheatabix, that stuff's nasty.

Smoke this whole back and forth between E and myself is probably getting more than a little humorous for the guys and girls who have as they say BTDT.

For myself I've only made two strenuous mountain Goat hunts. From those two limited experiences I can say the guide was not all that concerned with complex carbs. When it came time to fill the pack with food he threw in more than a few mountain house meals-good at first, but then the high salt content eventually drove drove me to water often-, a jar of PB, crackers, some packaged crackers such as PB and cheese, instant hot chocolate, tea bags, candy bars, some real cheese, instant soups, cliff bars, etc. Complex carbs would be low on the list and dense calorie foods would have been high.

So perhaps a couple of those who make a habit of being out and working in the mountains will give us some idea of what they typically take on a hard hunt. I think it would be interesting, and if I'm that far off I have no problem in admitting same.

Dry beans Museli!!!!!!

Come on man!!!!

I sure was hopping he would pull out some collard greens, but alas�.

I asked for a museli applesauce muffin, but that didn't go over all that well.