Considering changing up my pad configuration and wondering about doubling up pads.

Specifically, I like to take a cut down a thermarest z pad for sitting/glassing during the day. I am wondering if I were to use the z in combination with an insulated inflatable would the R value effectively increase to the addition of the two R values to one combined new value or is there some R value efficiency lost.

Also, if stacking them what is the experience with putting the Z pad on top of or underneath the inflatable, again assuming that the z is cut down to torso length only.

Thanks for the replies.

Don't think you can double it but you'll certainly have more insulation. But my body can only tell warm or not, it doesn't do R values. I use my Z-rest under for protection of the inflatable when I do both, though I believe folks saying on top is warmer. I also really like one of the fitted sheets on top of my inflatable when every ounce doesn't count so that also influences why I put the Z under.

I use Exped 's Multi Mat underneath my Neo Air for protection, handy piece of gear. You can use it for blanket, tarp, pad, ect.

http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/multimat

I've stacked pads & air mattresses both ways and can't tell a difference in warmth. Putting the pad on the bottom will protect the air mattress from sharp stuff on the ground. Even if there's nothing sharp enough to puncture it, a rock or stick can put pressure on a seam that can weaken it.

http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-insulation-pads.html

1/4" Evazote over a Neoair is my preferred setup, trimmed to fit my size L Neoair.

It's to bad our local Prolite.com went belly-up as that was the best US source for Evazote I knew of. However, Gossamer Gear has them, albeit in shorter lengths.

I put the Evazote OVER the inflatable.

Sawtooth:

Inside a wall of a building "R" values of building insulation are cumulative on a 1:1 ratio; R1 + R2 + R3 + Rn = RT.

The Thermarest NeoAir and the Big Agness Insulated Air Core mattresses are both filled with down so they provide insulation and they have kept me warm sleeping in a tent on the ground and also sleeping on a cot, in single digit temps. So IMO you don't need the foam pad to keep warm.

However, I do just what you are considering. I sit on half a foam pad during the day and I put it under my air mattress at night. If you lean on your elbow it will go through the air mattress and hit the hard ground below making for sore elbow. This problem is alleviated by putting the foam pad under the air mattress.

Another reason that I use the foam pad is, like Rock Chuck said, to protect the air mattress and hopefully prevent leaks.

KC

I'll bet you wear your underwear on the outside of your pants.

Ha, thought mtn. men didn't wear underwear

Thank all for the reply. I do well in the day, but don't sleep real warm so have been using the exped downmat 9. Great warmth, but real heavy. Thinking about the neoair extherm and z rest. Together they would be same R value, and I would save considerable weight and space.

Thanks again.

Reason I like the thin evazote on top is it keeps me from slipping around... I doubt you could go wrong with either method.

On top has always worked for me and I've not gotten cold spots in sub freezing weather, whereas with just the neoair alone (no foam pad), I do get cold spots in sub freezing weather.

Neoair is not down filled.

Neither is the BA IAC. They use Primaloft Silver HiLoft insulation.

Ok, just figured out this is "Take A Knee"... funny, I've never had to change names on this forum like you, in spite of being one of the "original" members going on 15 years.

As to underwear, nope. I wear them inside... and I can get any Kimber Montana shooting (I've had 16 of them), including my current 7-08.

Apparently something you can't say with your sample of one

It's a viable tactic. I prefer to put the closed cell pad on the bottom--just the way I like it comfort-wise. As far as calculating r-values it may be additive in a vaccuum, but there is a lot going on in terms of both conduction and convection that is different nearly every time you go backpacking.

Yup, no two types of pads are constructed the same. Each requires a different approach. Experiment, and find what works.

Next time I'm out I'll try the Evazote UNDER the Neoair, just to see...

I use a Z-lite and a NeoAir as a combo and am very fond of it.

Tanner

Tanner, I used the Z-Lite and Ridgerest with my Neoair. A solid choice. Just found for warmer than sub zero conditions the Evazote worked as well and with less weight and bulk.

Consider using a bivy sac for additional benefits.

Another out-of-the-box option is to use Refletix. I've used it on the ceiling of a popup ice fishing shelter. No reason it wouldn't work as a cost effect method to increase the R-value of a sleeping pad. Comes in various sizes and is very thin (i.e. lite weight).

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflecti...Insulation-BP48025/100052556?N=5yc1vZ19n

I do the same thing, a trimmed down Z for sitting / glassing and then slip it under my inflatable at night. Can't say for sure how much insulation is gained, but it works well enough for me.

Having owned 16 Kimber Montanas puts you into super-tard territory. That ain't something rational people bring up, even if it is true.

While a long way from 16. I have had 6 Kimbers a d all but one were very good shooters.
How you liking the 7mm08 Brad?
That might be my next.

Laffin my azz off....

Sitting here wondering about the rationale behind creating a "covert" user name other than the one you're commonly known by.
Heck, except for those of us who have established friendships with other forum users, we're all anonymous anyway!

Hi Ed, I do like the 7-08. It accounted for this years bull with a 150 Ballistic Tip. He was a nice old bull, I estimate at 6-7 years old, with teeth worn fairly flat. Took him on my usual, solo, public ground backpack hunt. Really had a great time hunting this year.

Yep, I'm sure you know all about "covert". I wouldn't know anything about it, that's why it took mensa set here about five posts to "out" me. The tards took about a dozen. How 'bout you?

Gee whiz it took me 232. If only I was so bored and useless to society that I could monitor what people guess about on the internet all day every day. Oh to be TAK...

Great bull Brad, I hadn't seen that yet.

Damn, another great bull Brad. Way to go.

Tanner

How many SOCOM assets did you train last week?

Eleventeen.

Since that isn't a number I can assume ZERO then. Thought so.

Do you train them on the internet via an Xbox?
That game is awesome.

That IS a nice bull. Would love to hear the story and see more pictures!

No, but talking bout training operatives on a backpacking thread sure does.

That right there cracked me up!

Brad,

You still have your Kimber .308 or has the 7-08 replaced it?
And what velocity are you running those 150 Accubonds at?

Hi Ed, I do like the 7-08. It accounted for this years bull with a 150 Ballistic Tip. He was a nice old bull, I estimate at 6-7 years old, with teeth worn fairly flat. Took him on my usual, solo, public ground backpack hunt. Really had a great time hunting this year.


Snubbie,

The only elk I have ever taken with a 7-08 was a cow a number of years ago with a Remington XP-100. Still the most accurate gun I have ever owned in larger than a .243, but you can't shoot them well off hand, or at least I couldn't.

Ed, the 7-08 has replaced the 308 (for now), but I have a 308 MT barrel I'm going to screw on it.

The 150's are Ballistic Tips (not Accubond's) and they're right at 2,700 or a fuzz under (2,680+).

Like many (most) Kimber MT's this one has its definite likes and dislikes. It doesn't like FB bullets, is "ok" with 140's, but absolutely dotes on 150 and 160 gr Boattails... I suspect a fresh crown might help it with the 140's, but perhaps not.

However, it puts the 150 NBT's into sub 3/4" groups, with so many in the .4's and .5's that I assume anything larger is operator error!