What are some safe options to stay warm in a tent? We used to have an electrical hook up for the camper. Would simply plug in the heater! The camper is gone now, and it looks like I'll be trying out the tent life. So, other than a good sleeping bag and lots of blankets are there any other good options? Female companion, four-legged companion, or...

Question if I may...you are not talking about backpacking, are you?

You seem to be aiming more at a base camp and packing from there.

we had a backpack stove with chimney, and the tent was set up for the pipe.

Kept 3 of us warm during elk hunt in colorado.

4ager and NH-K9 would have the specs on those items, but I suspect someone will be along shortly to talk about similar options.

Yes, I'm looking for more of a base camp type deal. But I'm prefer something quick and easy lightweight, lightweight, and very portable. I don't want to put up a $500 canvas tent for a quick overNight hunt. I figured this Forum was the closest I could find to gather information from some experts.

If you're talking about sleeping warm, your best bet is a good bag and a good thick pad underneath which is just as important. If you're talking about hanging out, and don't want to go full wall tent mode, a heated tipi from Kifaru or Seek Outside is the way to go. Kifaru has a classified forum and you can pick up a used tent/stove if you're diligent. Kevin T is the man to talk to about Seek Outside.

I thought so, what these fellows do seems to be more in the realm of a week and longer with a backpack which isn't common at all here in Australia.

Most of us here set up a base camp and pack out from there for a night or two, which is why we tend to use heavier ex-military canvas tents and stretchers (or a truck tarp).
A few of the sambar hunters do what these fellows are doing but not for the length of time.

Your questions may be better aired in the general hunting section...but these fellows certainly know a bucket load about light gear, stuff I have never even heard about.

If not a wall tent, then get a tipi that is the size you want. Either buy one with a stove jack or have one sewn in the one you buy. Then get a small wood stove and you are set. I had my stove built out of a piece of 10 inch stove pipe. Legs and 4 inch stove pipe fit inside.the whole stove weighs 6lbs.stove, tipi,and sleeping bag weigh 13 lbs.I pack in with horses, but still go light. Can come out with my camp, and a big mule deer on 1 pack horse.

I use two methods

In our big camp we use a wall tent and a wood stove

For my wife and myself in my 10x10 we use the Big Buddy on a 25lb bottle

I have an Ed T stove for my tent. It heats it great but it won't hold heat at all. A warm sleeping bag & pad are necessities.

A really good double bag with a really good pad underneath with a female (in my case) companion/girlfriend/wife inside. leave all clothes out of the bag and max heat will be conducted........YMMV

What is a really good pad?

For car camping you have a lot of options. Cabelas makes 2-3 inch-thick foam pads you can use on the ground or on a cot. They're inexpensive and light but a little bulky. If you stack two it's almost like sleeping on a bed. For lightweight packable pads that could do double-duty if you ever need to put them in a pack, look at Thermarest and Exped. They are more expensive and not really needed for car camping, just an option.

^^^^ this is what I do as well. I do run one in my 14x16 canvas tent as well. You may have to sit huddles around the heater but it works. The biggest thing is not run them all night and be careful for extended periods of time. CO poisoning sneeks up on you.

Big Agnes Insulcore

For road camping, I've gone to a heavy duty cot with 3" foam pad under a North Face Snow Shoe. In all seriousness, my cot/pad/sleeping bag is as comfortable as my bed at home. Plus its warm.

I also suggest wearing a fleece beanie at night. Its amazing how much difference keeping your head warm at night can make. When I'm in camp, I wear a fleece beanie all the time.

I've also heated up a jug of water in a plastic bottle and thrown it into my bed before I crawl in. Adding a body size hand warmer also helps.

Staying warm in a base camp setup isn't hard. In fact, one of my complaints is keeping it too warm. Most people new to camping in the cold think they're going to freeze to death when the temps drop below 20. With good equipment and a little thought it ain't that big a deal.

A $10 ensolite pad from Walmart put on top of an air mattress will add many degrees of warmth.

Don't skimp on a decent bag. I have a North Face ElkHorn.. at bedtime I cant wait to get in it, knowing I will sleep warm all night or about 4-6 hours when I got to pee. .

Start with a pad with an R rating of 6 or more. Like the Neo dream.
Roll a cot is great kit and will be easy for quick setup.
Then you need a 8 man tipi for lots of headroom.

What temperature ranges are you talking about? Locations?

West tx mostly. 20's and 30's are pretty common. Lots of wind.

For a car camp sleeping pad, a cheap Costco poly fill sleeping bag over a full size Thermorest or BA pad is the shizl. Have used this arrangement both in my wall tent and Coyote Camping it solo in the bed of my Toyota 4x4.

At elevation, things can get pretty damn cold. I concur on the fleece beanie for around camp and sleeping too. Usually live in a fleece neck gator too. My NF down mummy bag has a nice collar and hood, but the beanie/gator makes the unheated (no CO) sleeping space quite pleasant.

When hunting solo in-state, I usually Coyote Camp to be able to move quickly should the need arise (big snow storms, move with the elk, etc.). Found that using a pop up 10'x10' gazebo with some blue tarp sides provides a good shelter from rain/snow/wind that is much easier to manage on my own than a wall tent/stove/firewood. A couple Rubbermaid totes keep the rodents out of my food/gear. A propane Mr. Heater in the gazebo keeps both me and the water defrosted. It is a far stretch from a wood stove-heated wall tent, but I can be either set up or rolling down the mountain in less than 30 minutes.

West tx in those temps hands down the quick is a 6-8 man tipi, not cheap though.

With wood stove if you desire.

If not wife and I sleep down to around +10 every fall in AK, in zero degree wiggy bags and she is cold natured. We sleep together if it gets colder, but has not so far...

Good ground pad is a must. We just started with the cabela's 3 inch foam pad last fall in AK, its enough to keep us off the ground and insulated so far.

Tipis take no time to set up, Put a few stakes in and raise the pole...

But for me, if I was around a vehicle, I'd just as quickly put the bag in the seat and crawl in... Granted I"m only 51 but I sleep in the back seat of my F350 a few times a year in a good bag in the 20s with never a complaint.

I have done it in the bed before too, but you better have a good thick warm pad under you. Steel truck beds conduct cold really well I've found...

#1. get out of the wind

#2 stay dry not much of a problem in W Texas generally.


Expected temp? Activity? For sleeping or around camp?

I'm assuming you know how to keep warm while hunting

If a vehicle is carrying the weight, staying warm in a tent is easy. Until you get out of the sleeping bag!

My formula is 1) cot 2) insulating pad (cheap is ok) 3) Phat sleeping bag. I use the Therma-rest backpacker cot if room is an issue. That thing works. Warning -- put padding under the feet or it will wear a hole in your tent. Given the room, I use a bigger cot. Or preferably my 6-foot Toyota truck bed with a topper

There are many tricks regarding what to wear inside a sleeping bag, but I'll just say it needs to be dry and you need a beanie cap. I also sleep with snacks and a pee bottle within reach. No getting out in the cold to pee for me.

If you want to be warm out of the bag, look at the Little Buddy line of products.

For safe heat nearly all night, while you sleep, hard to beat one of the smaller size outfitter stoves in a tipi. Otherwise have a look at the zodi tent heaters or a propex heater mounted in a tool box.

I love sleeping in the cold. A good 15 degree mummy bag, a good pad, and some good long johns and you'll be fine. Get mummy'd up and sleep like a baby.

A two burner Coleman lantern will warm a 4 man dome tent. Fire up a burner for cooking, and one will likely have to open the door to cool things down. Other than that, simply get a good bag.

We use a cylinder woodstove in the wall tent, and 12-man tipi.

In a Cabelas 8-man guide tent we have used a Buddy heater with 20lb jug, and even a single mantle Coleman lantern warmed it up well in the 30s.

Getting ready to venture into the lightweight titanium stove world, for our 6-man tipi.

I will add that one of the biggest factor in staying warm is a good stocking cap that stays on. Keeping that heat from escaping from the top of your head makes a huge difference.

I use a good bag and a good pad. Then when it's really cold out.--I open up a 8 or 10 hour hot-hand hand warmer. Pop it down in my sleeping bag. Easy money staying warm and getting a good night sleep.

It works for me and a few of my buddies.

Not a lot of experience with packing in, but when I've done so and it is cold I place a hot hands inside the beanie before putting it on.

This x 1000. If your dome-piece gets cold, good luck staying warm.

Tanner

Hmmmm.

Notice I said "stays on".. (grin) I had one beanie on a hunt that would work it's way off during the night. Wake up freezing cold, find it, put it back on, and be warm again in 10 minutes. I know they supposedly debunked the myth of heat escaping through your head, but every experience I have had either cold weather camping or winter fishing has told me to keep my head covered with a beanie.

No doubt, they like to come off in a mummy bag often! I've taken to either using a beanie with strings that'll tie under the chin or putting a hood on over the beanie as an extra layer. Seems to work well.

Its been pretty much covered.

A good pad, bag and a nightcap. I use a wool watch cap.

Leave the heaters for the wall tents or a "hang out" shelter.

If you need a warm layer for when you don't want to get up, don't wear them, but throw them in your bag or throw them in the bag sack or pad bag for a pillow. You don't need extra layers in a bag that works.

A good bag taller than you are is vital.

The concept of heat loss through the head has not been debunked, just the exaggerated % that had been given.



FWIW.

One other thing I tend to do is eat something before I hit the sack. Food digestion burns calories which helps you stay warm. I eat when I'm cold during the day too.

An added trick I learned a while back, when it is really cold, zip your shell or jacket closed and slide your sleeping bag into it from the bottom end. The added layer covers your feet and up your legs, really helps. Also, be careful buying a bag too long, the added space may seem comfy, but it traps cold air.

Keep It simple...We have lived Outdoors more than Indoors most of our lives. A 4x4 Wagon long enough to sleep in the back, a good Mattress, and good Sleeping Bags. Turn key...Start Motor...Heater on.

We raised our Kids out Camping in a 75 Chevy "Bubble Top" RV Van. Just landed all the Drivetrain and Suspension to make the old Van 4x4. My next project will be to rebuild the interior and install the 4x4 parts.

The Kids will be fighting over who will get to park it at their house for the Grandkids.

A Mountain House warms you up for about an hour when you are freezing your arse off.

The wind you have is a bigger factor than most places. I bought my first "mountain" tent after western Oklahoma winds broke a couple of decent tents down. A tent not built for that will drive you nuts with flapping and with wind blowing through the tent under the fly. A lot of backpacking tents have mostly mesh bodies. That's not good in high winds.

Don't forget to buy some better stakes. Most backpacking tents come with stakes that just won't hold in high wind. Sure, they'll hold in gusts, but our constant wind will "work" stakes loose over time.

Good advice is to get a really warm bag and don't skimp on the sleeping pad. I use two pads, one an inexpensive ridge rest and then a warm foam pad.

If you are going to use a cot, you'll want a bigger tent. I'll warn you that setting up a big tent in high winds can be a real pain. For a smaller dome tent, say 4 person or less, I've found a candle lantern to do a good job of knocking the chill off in weather hanging around the freezing mark.

For a cold weather pad, I use an insulated air mattress rated at R3.5. Then I put an ensolite pad on top of it. So far it's worked fine but I haven't tested it at 0.

We have run the Mr Buddy heaters in a tent (Bomb Shelter and Cabelas 6-man) and they keep you warm. I like it a bit cold when I sleep, so generally don't do that unless it is really cold. It comes with complications of course, in that you need to provide ventilation. It is pretty nice in the morning to lean out of your cot, kick on the heater, and then wait 10 minutes to get up into a nice warm tent. If you want to get really fancy, cover up the high traffic areas of your tent with These

Keeps the feet warm. Hey, luxury is underrated.

Lots of good tricks mentioned already. Nalgene full of hot water in the foot of the bag is one of my favorites. Try to not be cold when you first get in the bag, whether that means 20 jumping jacks outside the tent or having a heater.

Then of course, there is whiskey.

Hate me.. but wiggys sells a lite sleeping hood, that we use in AK every fall... allows the head to be out to breathe normal air.. LOL, but stays in place all night.

The getting warm is a big key, insulation is neutral. Most don't consider this.

Same with getting up in the morning, IMHO, we keep our clothes in the bag, not on, but in the bag, putting a cold layer on is a key to getting a chill first thing.

Emphasis on "leave all clothes out of the bag" Though I recommend putting them back in the bag after the heat is generated.

Western Mountaineering makes awesome stuff. My wool stocking cap from Filson keeps my head warm. I also recommend lightweight down slippers. They stuff into a ziplock back the size of my hand.

My wife uses adhesive chemical heat packs stuck inside her bag too

The Indians used to trade horses for wives. During a cold winter, a woman who weighed over 200 was worth an extra 2 horses.

No, this has never been "debunked", except maybe retardsville.

The NATO "brass man" studies at Natick labs decades ago proved this conclusively.

Buy a tent WITHOUT mesh. Instead, find one that the mesh in a door and window with a mesh door and window that can be covered/zipped closed with a nylon door and window.

Manufacturers are making tents with lots of mesh because it makes for a lightweight advertised weight--and most folks are buying tents based on weight.

Of course, I'm assuming you're not hunting along the Appalachian trail in July........

I've camped at 10K ft in January while teleskiing and on a couple occasions nighttime temps 10-20 below. Three guys in a 4 man tent can keep temps 20 degrees above outside temps. Light up the stove to boil water for breakfast and it doesn't take long for temps to be downright toasty before crawling out of your bag.

Buy a bag that is rated at least 10 degrees lower than what you expect outside temps to be, one with a hood, a draft collar and is roomy enough to wear long underwear, a beanie, and wool socks or booties.

In other words a four season is very good, a mountaineering tent is generally overly heavy overkill.

I've had the chance to look at the Foidel Canyon and the Slater UV from Big Agnes and like them both. Both are a little short on headroom but that tends to be the trade-off for shedding wind.


Casey

My most recent Jeep-camping trip a couple of weeks ago:



30+ year old Northface synthetic fill bag, couple of foam pads underneath and my summer backpacking tent. Slept just fine at 59 years old.

When I'm backpacking, I use an equally old Northface down mummy bag. Have slept just fine with either setup, in some pretty doggone cold temps.

That said, there is something pretty wonderful about just stoking the wood stove first thing in the morning, in a classic wall tent.

Guy

Get yourself an Arctic Oven and your cold days spent winter camping will be over, permanently.

If you're going from a heavy base camp, pretty tough to whoop an Arctic Oven with a small propane heater. Although if I were to be hunting in an area with more readily available downed timber for fuel, I would have a hard time not going with a lightweight teepee tent like Kifaru or Seek Outside's offerings paired with their stoves. Those things get really warm. and are lightweight to boot.





Tanner

Put one of these under your inflatable. With a quality 20* bag on 20* night you'll be wishing you'd brought your 30* bag.


http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/trek-and-travel/ridge-rest-solite/product

I take a large cut it in half. Use it to keep me warm glassing. Then at night it goes under my inflatable.

Read the fine print. A few years ago I looked at a bag rated to 20. In the fine print it said that their ratings were for the temperature that you would keep you alive, not comfortable.

Tanner:

What size oven is that and what sort of stove is attached to the stove pipe?

Tanner:

What size oven is that and what sort of stove is attached to the stove pipe?

Nu-Way 3500
http://nuwaystove.com/product/model-3500/

Arctic Oven 10.

Tanner

Two inches of loft (each side) will take a well fed adult male to about freezing with comfortable sleep. Warm sleepers 10F less, most females 10F higher. North Face (who's ratings are trustworthy) rate the Cat's Meow at 20F, the women's model at 30F.

Every 10 degrees lower will require slightly less than another inch of loft(per side). Once you know this you can eyeball a sleeping bag and know about how low you can sleep in it.

I use a Seek Outside 6-man Tipi with a SO large titanium stove. This combination, with a decent pad (or lightweight cot) and a warm sleeping bag is really hard to beat for 2 hunters with packs and all their winter gear or 3 people in warmer conditions. It is a stick stove and you have to keep it stoked until bed time. When lights are out, the sleeping bag and pad provide the warmth in cold conditions. The stove provides both a cooking surface and warmth, which is just about all I ask of a small tent stove. It has work well for me in CO for 2nd rifle hunting seasons when it can get cold.

I have a Nu-Way it's works but i prefer the buddy heater

Apparently these are moisture wicking & have been advertised lots.

https://arcticoventent.com/tents/all-tents



Pricey though!

Unless absolutely necessary, Back Packing is for mild Weather and only requires one Heavy Blanket and a Ground Tarp.

Yep, same as above posted in yellow. Well worth the expenditure if you are going full on 4 season....

Will be one of the first purchases we make once we move to AK in a few years.

"Backpacking is for mild weather...."

Maybe back-packing is, but back-pack hunting sure isn't only for mild weather.

tanner

Don't feed him anything, please.

I"d rather feed tanner than a ghost.

If your main objective is car camping and safety, I suggest just a standard electric heater one would use on a cold room or a basement. Plug it into the electric box if your campsite has one, or get a little inverter generator if the campsite does not have an electric box. Super simple, safe and foolproof.

Ben

2 years ago Snubbie was begging me to bring a llama inside the tent to keep him warm.

Honestly it has been a very longtime since I have heard of someone tough enough to Backpack out overnight for two days in a row of Hunting and then Backpack out all their Gear + a Deer or Elk, or maybe a Moose. How about you guys?

I set up Base Camp and sleep in the Cherokee and then venture out Hunting each day from there Myself. Packhorse aside, The Cherokee will travel anywhere any other mode of transportation is now legally limited to travel.

You need to hang out with a different crowd.

Mods:

Close thread!

Do not post!

Officially silly!

Honestly I think it's been a long time since you've been outdoors. But you're right- I have no idea how some of those tough guys stay in a tent overnight.... Must be downright harrowing!

Tanner

I've heard it can be with some people, depending on what was on the menu.

Not sure how you did it...but you guys were able to completely twist the point out of context. Maybe you just scanned keywords rather than actually read the sequence of points made?

Coming from a tinfoil hat wearing offroader, that's really not a surprise.

Sorry, couldn't resist... your forum name is low hanging fruit.

LOL, don't tell my 55 year old wife that...





Ten stream crossings, nice freezing water...

Brad....I'd bust my azz on those greasy rocks for sure

I can see me slipping and taking the Nestea plunge....you gotta be old to understand that...laffin

Ha! My wife's not the most sure footed, but she always manages. She carries "water shoes" and trekking poles. Both critical for her.

Lol...you make a very good point and it's all good! But seriously? How big can a Zone or District you were lucky enough to draw a tag in be that you can't just use road access and a Base Camp to hunt from? We have very large Zones out here and they can still be walked across in half a day. Why abuse yourself with an additional 40-50 Lb pack of gear? Alaska and Canada with very little road access maybe but here in the States?

Really? Walked across in 1/2 a day? That's not what I'd call "very large."

Don't want to hunt where the good animals are?

Ever heard of "Wilderness Area's?"

BTW, even though many in AK are borderline aliens, it's still in the "state's."

Me, I live in Montana... what do I know?

This is why I live in Arizona. Backpacking in Great Weather is actually just about year round for us. My Wife and I both grew up Camping from Horseback so we are no strangers to sleeping on the Ground without needing a Tent.

Tents are just noisy.

In lots of places the best hunting is 3-4 miles from the road. If you pack in, you eliminate a 6-8 mile round-trip in the dark. And can get to your hunting area earlier in the morning, and stay later in the evening.

Here in the east ( Dacks), if you walk in 4-5 miles from the nearest road or trail, you can be pretty much assured of hunting day after day and never seeing a another human track.

Carrying 40 pounds in is easy, even the 2-3 hours of sweat and pain coming out with the camp and boned out deer isn't all that bad.

Moose or elk? I would want some friends

So true... but I do wonder why so many car-campers visit a forum called "Backpack Hunting?"

Now this is more realistic in perspective. And what we Hunt here are LARGE Mule Deer and Elk. So even with a Mule Deer "completely boned" out we are still talking about 80 to 100 Lbs of Meat depending on how old it is plus your Gear.

I agree that a Whitetail or Antelope would not be too bad under these circumstances of course.

http://www.backcountrychronicles.com/mule-deer-pack-out-weight/

Though it's been decades ago, I've hunted the Dak's for deer and concur. And the ADK certainly can't be walked across in a 1/2 day!

This year's backpack hunt. Solo, Wilderness Area. Granted, it was unseasonably warm for nearly November, but that's not always the case!

An elk can be gotten out solo... it just takes more trips!

The "noisy" tent:



First load, somewhere in the 90lb range, and also somewhere near the end of my "fun" limit...

And a "hint," these kind of animals are not generally killed near roads...

How do you know what's realistic if you've never done it? Lots of guys pack out elk solo. There's nothing "unrealistic" about it.

I hunt in September and I always hear the same thing from the guys camped at the trailhead--various reasons why the bulls aren't bugling yet. 3-4 miles of separation from roads normally gets the bulls bugling.

I know one thing...I can cover a lot of ground twice as fast even out 6 miles or more traveling light with only a Rifle, an empty Pack Frame, and minimal necessary sustenance.

I bet I can cover more ground than you with a camp and 10 days of food on my back, and then not have to return to my jeep and warm Snuggie at night....

Tanner

I hope you hunt the units I do. I love road hunting tag holders and wish everyone would do it!

I love your style. Great job!

Takes about 100lbs to pack out a boned out sitka blacktail and all my camp gear. Not too bad.

Road hunters are awesome. I'd say 95% of hunters don't venture too far from the road, and for good reason.

There's a statistic somewhere in Washington State that says 95% of the hunters stay within 3 mines of a paved surface.

I can move faster with a light load too. I just prefer to do it a few miles away from the nearest road.

And like all the others, I really appreciate your efforts to stay close to the road.

Some guys will carry camp with them all the time and camp where they fall. Others will set up camp 3 or 4 miles in and hunt light from there. Both methods will get you away from most hunters. It's just a matter of preference.

Ok I'll admit it...I guess I am indeed a Road Hunter and you are welcome.

Lol.... so true.

Yeah, no one actually backpack hunts in the cold...or do they?

Here is a Sheep Hunt:



Filled my Ewe tag:



Backstraps for Supper:



Nice warm Crossing Here:



We Had 18" of Snow and 0F Temps on an early October Hunt:

That's just not realistic.

Nice pics Ed.

Tanner

So true, must be photoshopped!

Thanks Tanner. Those were very memorable trips, partly because of the weather.

Backstraps for supper, no way!!

Another Photoshopped image for sure. 😀

Yes, as evidenced by the epic tome and expansive real estate inside the "tent," totally unrealistic for a backpack hunt. You are a very keen observer. It was actually a goat-pack hunt with a 16-man tipi:

OP^^^^

OK guys I get it. I understand you take your "backpack hunting" very serious. But I was working off of the above statements and all the suggestions offered about Tipis, Cabin Tents, Wood Stoves, Propane Stoves with 25Lb cans and Etc.

Come on, you have to admit that these suggestions are a bit impractical for backpacking and still hauling out Game right? So I'm not the only one off track here Guys. lol

Did you actually "Pack" this Stove out 6 miles? If so why?

Well, as long as we're talking about photoshopped pics showing improbable scenes, how about these?

Obviously re-touched, nobody "backpacks" on a pile of rocks!!



This one is just ridiculous!! This poor fellow is 20 miles from the nearest road in the Alaska backcounttry, and appears to be just out for a stroll, picking up sheds!! There's just no way!! People like Tanner will tell you they've actually been to these spots, but don't you believe 'em!!




Here's a guy in Colorado, with a backpack full of elk meat, 4 miles from the road. And he wants us to believe he's up there playing balance beam, crossing that stream? No way!!

No, I did not. I cannot tell a lie. The goats did. Prior post edited to add more improbable photos!!!

My point was that Hunting out only 6 miles from Base Camp without the need to stay the night is no problem. 20 miles out would be different of course, Kudos and Full Respect for those who do Hunt out that far.

Back to covering a lot of Ground. Just a couple years ago I hiked right past lots of folks with full overnight packs as I was climbing Pikes Peak Via Barr Trail. Roughly 13 miles uphill Bottom to top in only one full day.

And no I did not cheat by riding the Incline Rail up Mount Manitou, I started from the bottom Trail Head. This was the 4th time I hiked this Trail since I was a teenager. I have to admit it was much harder this last time, age is indeed creeping up on me.

Well, I would disagree with that. The problem is, if you want to hunt the same spot tomorrow you're looking at a 12-mile round trip to do it. And using a lot of time hiking back and forth when you could be hunting. If you camp 6 miles in, hunting 8 miles in is a breeze. If you camp at the trailhead that's a 16-mile daily roundtrip.

Anyone who can climb 14-ers can manage a backpack hunt. You should consider trying one, you never now, you might like it.

Goats! Very Ingenious! I think the concept is Fantastic!

But it's not really "Backpacking" is it? I think it is fantastic but you have a Train of Pack Animals here to carry the better part of your Camp and load for you right?

YOu can do the long days... even 6 miles out.... Carolyn and I have done the 12 out and 12 back in a few times in CO elk hunting.

I"d have sure preffered to have taken a paratarp which we later bought... along and stayed and got more rest...

It sure helps to be able to get out and stay until dark, and be there in the morning, rather than getting back at midnight and up at 2-3 again...

I"ve done Sheep Mountain in a day by myself on foot, never did do Pikes, but figure Sheep was not that far off anyway... IIRC less than 1000 feet difference.

Bugout, I was fortunate enough to do a trip with goats exactly once. They belong to a friend, not me. Every other year, it's a backpack for me.

But you're right, it is ingenious, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I do it with llamas. Is it backpacking? Close enough. Who cares if you carry the pack or if an animal does? You get to the same place to hunt. Pack animals also allow you to carry a bit more comfort. I can literally buy another llama for less money than some of the ultralight tents on the market. Besides, working with trained pack stock is a lot of fun. It adds much to the hunt and the back country adventure.

These guys are packing my buddy's deer last fall.

I don't mind the hiking in and out that many miles each day. Back to the beginning...I do mind Carrying an unneeded extra load back out that many miles if I happen to score a large kill. It could make the difference of bringing the Meat back in one trip or having to make two trips.

Now don't get me wrong...I have hiked out and stayed the night many many times. But with our weather here during season there is no need for more than a Ground Tarp, a Heavy Blanket, a Canteen and a Big Bag of Trailmix.

In fact I used to go out the afternoon before and hole up in a spot where the "Morning Hunters" would drive the animals right in front of my position.

I"d rather hike in that far, then set up a spike, and then hunt furhter out/in from there.

BTDT tied to truck camp, if the animals are further in it really sucks... if not, you can adjust.

Wife and I did bivy bags one year, they were ok too in decent weather.... nothing like keep moving until you find elk sign and then start camping...

if we killed, take care if it, then head back to the truck where ever it was with the first load plus our gear, and from then on it was what we could do going in and out during daylight hours mostly...

But I hear ya.

Ever get hold of Lloyd?

No...I still need to try and contact him. I confess...I am guilty of posting here defending myself from "Backpackers" who use "Pack Animals" and have been very busy with my off line responsibilities the rest of the day.

I guess they missed the part where I have indeed used Pack Horses Hunting locally most of my life but I would not consider this as true "Backpacking". In fact Anyone who has Hunted from Horseback will tell you it is the only way to go.

To the Deer and Elk you are just another four legged beast and you can darn near ride right up to them.

I've hunted from horseback and it's not the only way to go. If it was, there would be no backpacking forum for you to argue with backpackers on.

True But if you would be so kind as to read back through from the beginning I hid nothing. I have no choice but to view this topic of Weight differently than most, I only weigh 140Lbs soaking wet so I have had to adapt and use techniques accordingly.

Unfortunately Packing back out 6 miles carrying 150Lbs because of added Camping Gear is not an option for me. And I would rather not make two trips to get all the Meat out. So I hunt the way I have to. Packing out around 100 pounds of Meat in one trip I have and can indeed get done.

Seriously, I will be the first to admit I am NOT Superman.

I'm not either. My guide on the sheep hunt weighed the same as you. Maybe 145. He carried more than I did at every turn and had frequent rest stops waiting for me to catch up. I watched him strap on a pack weighing well over 100 lbs and climb up the side of a mountain, 3000 vertical feet.

In all fairness, your guide is an absolute freak of nature and most folks his size and weight would shat themselves before making it halfway with a pack that heavy. He's been doing pretty good on the lynx and wolverines this winter....

Tanner

LOL< you won't get an elk or moose out in 100 pounds.

But deer, yeah...I couldn't even handle a full caribou bull in my pack... 1/2 the bull about killed me for the 3 hour hike in that morning and then the 6 hour hike out again... even though I begged to stay with the animal that night, my buddy was by far smarter.... that bag in the tent was nice and warm that night...

IT was the LAST time I've ever not had at least some kind of camp in my pack...

Well except for wondering around in the swamps for deer here in TX.. then I carry enough to survive a warm night out wiht enough room to carry the deer out after I shot in one trip.

One trip in a lot of places where you don't deal with deer, just ain't even close to being in the cards.

Shoot Lloyd a note!!!

Thats funny but true from what I hear.

A guy who packs 2/3 of his weight on a regular basis might seem like a superman now, but he'll be taking an early retirement when his knees and other joints go south on him. The body isn't built for that kind of abuse.

Phil has told you a bit about him? (It wasn't me BTW). Dude is a freak. I'll post some photos up here soon....

Tanner

He may not know what an intervertebral disc is currently, but he will be made aware of its existence, or lack therof, in the future, painfully so.

Dang Tanner, you ruined my story!

PS, the only place I bragged on Andrew was in the thread I posted about the hunt. That's probably what rost is talking about. I need to give that natural-born killer a call.

Great diagnosis, Dr. Monday. But riddle me this. If a good backpack places most of the load on the hips, and a hunting guide in good physical condition using a good backpack packs a heavy load 3-4 times a year for a couple of days, are you still full of sh*t?

I packed 14 heavy loads last year but my back feels good.... Right now

Tanner

Dammit, quit ruining my stories!!! On a serious note, a heavy load for me ain't the same as you young bucks, but it's still pretty good. And I can slip my fingers under the shoulder straps. Which means the load is on my hips and there's not much weight compressing my discs.

That totally explains your inability to squat. Stupid people in the gym inevitable screw themselves up.

Agreed. Issues with my back arise from tight hamstrings and glutes or if my form slips when lifting heavy. Packing heavy rucks hasn't been a detriment to my physical health yet, but we'll see down the road...

My mental health, on the other hand....

Packing meat is exactly why I got into llamas. I'm getting too old to be packing elk quarters on my back. My partners have both turned over 70 and I'm only a couple years away. I figure those llamas have added more than 5 years to my hunting time.

I just hate the loads when you get them on your back but then can't figger a way to get up...

As it should feel good......you are twenty something

You are still on the sunny side of the mountains

Myself....at nearly 47 I now fully understand what older men at the gym have told me for decades about the healing power of youth.....now I suppose it's my turn....

PRP injections in both of my knees is set for June 3rd

My inability to squat exists only in your mind. But it's good to know it's taking up the small amount of capacity there.

Nearly 47, you're killin' me!!

Denial is a river in Egypt.

Tight hamstrings are bad news, they cause knee problems too. If you don't have a good set of stretches, get with a trainer and get some.

You mean in the classic sense?

Any kind of pack stock adds a lot of comfort to a trip. Nothing like a creek cooled beer in glass, something you'd never carry on your back. As you get older, a cot becomes a really nice asset when you're 5 miles back. Don't sleep as warm as you once did? Your gear hauler doesn't care if your sleeping bag weighs 7 lb.

I'm not the purist packer type. I want to see the back country and I'll get there the easiest way possible. The truth is, though, whether you use goats, llamas, or equines, pack animals are just plain fun. They all have personalities and make the trip more enjoyable.

And you're one year older now so it ain't gonna be getting any easier. Happy b-day.

I hear that. Thanks...

Know a fair amount about a few folks up in the mountains... probably since so interested in moving to AK as quickly as we can gather it up here and leave it all in good shape here to get away to up there.

I'd be in the shat category.

hate it when the pack is heavy, and you sit down and roll over, to be a turtle upside down trying to figure out how to rollover and get back up again....

I think I can, I think I can.....

Or down to counting steps to the next rest... LOL

but back to the OP...the colder it is, the heavier that pack is going to be and the louder the knees will pop.

Look at Exped sleeping pads....the thick ones.

Glad there aint video of me rolling around like a dung beetle trying to stand up..I feel your pain.

One possibility for cold hard ground is a combination of an ultralight Neoair mattress for soft plus any of the lightweight ensolite pads for warm.

Tanner, where's those pics????

A 3-4oz Sea to Summit silk cocoon liner is the single greatest thing that ever happened to a sleeping bag.