Now that photobucket is back, I figured I'd redo and expand the intro thread:
Baby photos from late March
Thor:

Odin:

Ivar:

Ragnar:

Gunnar:

Loki:

Nigel:

First hikes:

The dreaded water trainings:

Outstanding!

I’ve always loved goats and learned about the packing breed from a professor here at the U about 20 years ago... someday.

Cool, what breed?

Only saw one with a pack on? ...grin...

Very cool. I'd wondered about them crossing creeks. We raise meat goats and they absolutely hate water.

Oh yeah they frigging hate water. About the only time I can get them to cross voluntarily is if all their buddies are on the other side or if they can jump the whole creek/ditch. Even getting them to take a drink takes a lot of patience or heat. I’ve got a place to hunt in mind that will require them crossing a pretty substantially wide creek, but probably won’t be very deep in September or October.

Other socializing aspects we are working on are dealing with new dogs on the trail. It’s one reason they need to stay behind me when hiking, so I can encounter the dog first and call to its owner. Also, I’m a little worried that when Ragnar is 200 plus pounds he will kill a perfectly nice but too curious dog. His balls, after banding, must have slipped up inside and displaced his brain. He hates dogs and will charge them. He’s punched ours in the face if they get too nosy and reared up to take pretty devastating swings that would have done some damage if the dogs didn’t evade him. I don’t want to totally discourage this, as I left the horns on to help them deal with predators.

Breeds are all Alpine and Alpine crosses. Thor is 3/4 Alpine 1/4 Toggenburg, Ivar is half Saanen l, half Alpine. Rest are full blooded Alpine. About 3.5 months now and the three largest are over 80 pounds. Smallest is Loki at 60ish but his gains are good, just had a rough start as a quad with his three brothers dying at birth.

We tried goats but for our purposes, llamas worked better. Goats are darn good packers, too, though. One thing I did learn was that I'll never again have goats with horns. They're hard on fences and will just stand and butt the sides of a barn all day long. They knocked the siding right off the barn.
They're a lot more personable than llamas. Llamas don't want to be touched. They hate having their heads or feet touched. They'll do the job and do it well but they're not friendly. Goats, otoh, love to have their ears scratched. They can be your buddies...to the point of being a PIA sometimes.

Did they react to the snake in pic #9? Looks like it is hauling out of there.

Nigel looked at it and snorted an alarm, the rest didn't care or notice. The snake was moving slowly, so I'm not sure if they all noticed.

Only had three of the boys up in the high country with me today. Needed to fix up the stock rack so had limited room in the kennels.

Ya I tried that gamble and lost once and won once. The first time , it caused me to pack out, and have to use facebook to find said goat. The second time I was in the west elks, and finally had a battle of wills with one ..so I crossed the water with a leader ..anchored behind a rock and started pulling ... I had to do it , all the good elk hunting was on the other side. Said goat, decided to cross creeks peacefully there after

I've done the goats in water thing. They don't like it at all at first. I only had 2 adult goats but they learned fast and didn't give me any problems after the 1st time. I've also done it with llamas and their 1st time can be memorable, too. In fact, I'm taking a 3 day trip starting tomorrow afternoon. I'm taking 2 adults and a youngster who'll be on his 1st overnighter. He's been in a little water once but we'll have a good stream crossing on this one. It might be a rodeo. I'll put him between the older ones and hopefully he'll just go through.

Kevin were those rented or borrowed goats? Not sure I’d heard of someone losing a goat they hand raised.

Cute little buggers!

Raised. Overall I liked the goats, but the wife wasn't a fan after they entered the house through an open screen door and had a good time unsupervised.

lol..... I don't leave ANYTHING parked in an area where we're keeping the goats.

That's kinda funny, kinda not, because I can imagine the mess. So far, wifey likes them, but doesn't know why her flower beds look like a tornado hit them, but I know....

With goats, a tornado DID hit them.

Great Pictures....I am sure they also taste better than a Sherpa if one had to go the Donner Party route.

That was the other things the wife didn't care for. They got in the green house one day ... I mean it is pretty funny

So what is their average load capacity?

I’ll be disappointed is any of mine can’t handle 50 pounds by the time they hit 200. Some seem like they will weigh well over 220, so 60 plus plus pounds isn’t out of order here. So anyway, 50-60 is within reason for a 200-220 pound goat. You’ll see wethers out there that are closer to 250 and those are probably the ones packing well over 60.

The boys are now 5 months old and several are over 100 pounds. Everyone is castrated and all have healed over nicely. Not sure how long this growth rate will continue, as I assume they will slow down this winter. You read lots about not loading them down too heavily as yearlings while their bones are still growing, but I think I'd like to take them on a deer hunt already next year. They should be in the 150-180+ pound range and 15-20 pounds per goat with 7 goats ought to be plenty for camp and a deboned deer. Their personalities and pecking orders are forming. They've grown from incessantly bugging you and pestering you little kids to big healthy eating sized goats. They no longer jump on you. They can all lead and mind their manners around my son. When he is in their pen now, they just nose him a little. No one knocks him over or tries to steal anything he has in his hands.

Odin is my heaviest around 110 pounds but he's got a lot more belly than the others. He's a hog, but really a sweatheart and he leads the best. You can walk him around wherever you like with just one finger on the collar. Kristofer has ridden him several times and Odin doesn't blink an eye.





Ivar is also around 105-110, but he's got a much larger frame. This weird looking mofo is the youngest goat and could be 250+. I've got high hopes for him, but he is probably the most annoying the way he constantly nibbles on you at the pen. Once outside he's fine. The others with nose you and maybe nibble a tiny bit, but if you let he'll take your whole finger and chew on it.

Thor is my next largest and has the largest set of horns. He's also the most aggressive with the others. Only Ivar will go toe to toe with him. Thor used to be the largest and is developing quite nicely but he has been overtaken in both heart girth and body weight by the other two above. At this point he looks thin in comparison to Odin and Ivar. Ivar is slightly taller than Thor, but Thor is my next tallest. He's right at 100 pounds, super sweet with people, but for whatever reason is vicious with the others on occasion. Even on hikes he will stick a horn into their rear flanks and lift them off the ground. Bastid might disembowel one of the boys. And of course he picks on the smallest ones. He loves love and is great with people,but isn't at all annoying. This goat is in charge and they all know it. I'm not sure if this means I'm going to have to make sure he is in the lead to prevent drama on the trail, but I'm thinking so. He will also get defensive around dogs which I appreciate more than our dogs do.





Gunnar is my next largest and he is really getting tall. He's almost as tall as Thor, and with the rate he is growing, might overtake him too. I know enough about his breeding and his father to say he looks a lot like him. His father is a beast and maxes out every standardized chart measurement for Alpines. Gunnar is extremely sweet, and loves to follow my son around. Anytime Kristofer has something in his hands, Gunnar will check it out, but not steal it. If Kristofer is playing in the dirt or the water buckets, Gunnar is always right there with him. If Odin doesn't work out for riding, Gunnar might be a willing option.

Ragnar is one of my favorites. I love his coloring and he's probably the bravest. He hates dogs and will cheap shot our dogs if they aren't looking. When he goes straight at them, they can usually avoid the hit. He'll even rear up for a big one, but hasn't connect so far. I do worry he might destroy some hippy mutt on the trail just because he can, but I need some level of this aggression in at least one of the goats for loose trail dogs, so I'm not correcting it for now. He's right in the middle of the pecking order, and a significant step below his brother Gunnar in size for now. Ragnar is in the lower 90s and not as tall as Gunnar now. Prior to this month, all of their measurements were identical. He's plenty friendly but usually stands away from the fence because he can't muscle his way through the bigger boys.




Nigel is Katie's favorite and extremely sweet, but too low on the pecking order to get attention at the fence. I really like him and his horns. They are the only ones that seem to flare outward. He and Ragnar are about identical in size and have been for a while, but Ragnar has more fight in him than Nigel.




Then there's little Loki. He's always been the smallest and least developed. Even his horns and balls were smaller than the others. He's at least keeping pace with the other three above him, and if expressed as a percentage of body weight and chest girth, shows the largest gains. He's one of the best bred kids, but I still have my doubts about him. If I were to get rid of any, it would be him, even though he is Kristofer's favorite. While friendly, he doesn't dare to try to get petted with any of the others around. It's hard to say when to pull the trigger. I don't want to wait two years to decide on when or if he should go, but he may actually turn out nicely, so I don't want to send him down the road yet and I'd really like 7 goats and don't want to bottle feed again next year. He's barely 80 pounds now and by far the shortest and smallest in every measurement. Dang, he's little compared to the others, but 80 pounds at 5 months ain't bad by itself.

Don't put full loads on them until they're 4 years old. The growth plates in their legs won't be mature until then no matter how big they are. Overloading them too young can do serious damage to their legs and greatly reduce their useful life span. Their size doesn't matter. It's age that counts.

You can google all kinds of info on how old they need to be. You're off to a good start with them. Don't screw it up by being impatient.

Interesting. We leave all our young bucks intact but we sell early to both meat buyers and individuals who may use them for breeding. I don't know anything about growth plates with goats but am curious about if wethering has a effect on time to growth plate closure vs not wethering? I've been told age of gelding a horse can have an influence on the eventual height of the horse....early gelding causes a delay in growth plate closure so the gelding may be taller. Not sure if the same applies for wethers?

Castrating goats too early can lead to urinary stones. However, 'early' for that reason is only younger than 2 or 3 months.

Not a lot of research on early castration in llamas is available but some believe that it can cause premature breakdown of the front feet which is a common problem with them. The recommended age is no earlier than 2 years. I have one that was done earlier but I don't know how much earlier. He's 4 now and his feet are good so far but he's the tallest one I have. I wish I knew more of his history.

I certainly won't put full loads of them until they are full grown, but I've seen some resources that think a light load in the 10% of body weight range as yearlings is fine, but yes I'm impatient.
Wethering a goat does lead to taller goats. They don't put on the mass of a buck, but will almost always be taller. Horns are generally not as thick either.

I cut mine at 3.5 months. Was hoping to go as long as possible, but they started to exhibit some bucky behaviors that are not acceptable. There are plenty of feeds and supplements that should help minimize the urinary calculi. When I was a kid we castrated at under a week, but didn't keep them long enough to develop those potential problems. I kind of wish I didn't band Loki the same day I did the other boys. He may have been able to develop a little more. His horns are much thinner than the other boys and his nuts were maybe 25% of theirs.

So, quick update, but we've done several totally unforced creek crossings. Kept it small so far, but they'll do it, even if they don't want to do so.





Still haven't done much in the mountains with them, mostly just staying local in the desert and around the house, especially with hunting season in force right now and I didn't take them for an overnight trip at all this summer like planned. Only time for so much

update time.... 4 of 7 are between 150 and 160 pounds. The smallest is pushing 120, the next two around 130-140. Will all be yearlings next month. Even my smallest are larger than average. My biggest boys are gonna be huge it seems.

Loading the goats in my truck is still pretty easy. 3 will usually jump in on their own. The rest are cooperative getting in with help. Ivar always needs a little coaxing getting out for some reason.
The big news is packs went on for the first time today and we took a little hike. No problems whatsoever, but no weight in any pack yet.. They took it like champs. Even the strap that rose up under Ragnar’s tail wasn’t a big deal. He got a little jumpy but settled down as soon as I figured out what was wrong and fixed it. I took them somewhere familiar too, just in case this was going to be a big deal.

We picked up three alpines this last summer. I’m ready for some nicer weather so I can take them out hiking and get them used to a pack. They aren’t to fond of hiking around in our -15 degree weather right now

Thanks for the pics and info. Very interested in this.

I see goats as becoming the most popular pack animal in the country. They're cheap to buy, easy to keep, and are very easy to train and use. They can't haul nearly as much as my llamas but llamas are kind of a specialty item. It's become very hard to find good ones at a reasonable price. They're probably the easiest of any pack animal to train, though. There are a lot of junk llamas out there that you don't want in the mountains so you need to learn before you buy.
Horses and mules are at the top for ability to carry weight but not everyone has the room or the money to have them. Plus, they take a lot more training and know how than either goats or llamas. A poorly trained one can get you a lot more hurt than a goat or llama can.
For the average back packer or hunter, the goats are probably the best deal around.

Thanks for the updates! I dig the pics and progress.

Though I don't live where I can justify keeping pack animals, one thing that would worry me about getting into goats/llamas is them being banned on public lands that have wild sheep anywhere close. It's not there yet, but I'd not be surprised to see limits on where they can be used in the near future.

The greenies will try to ban everyone who doesn't carry a <30lb pack. They've tried to ban pack animals in a couple wilderness areas here just because they don't like to see horse manure. They didn't get very far with that.

I also enjoy seeing the photos Ex and Rock and the update.

Continued success on the goat test trials.

Thanks guys! Informational! I'm thinking I can throw two in the back of a Toyota and still get a good buck outta the wilderness. I'm still capable of hauling a heavy pack myself. Honestly I can see 3 in the back of a Toyota..

It won't be the "greenies" that stop goats/llamas as pack animals. It'll be the wild sheep organizations. I know of one wild sheep hunting org in CO already has it on their radar...

So far my local BLM NCA is the only one to ban pack goats, yet they still have an open sheep allotment in amongst the desert bighorns. I back up to another NCA that has no restrictions. I do know the Shoshone National Forest and Inyo National Forest have some major restrictions. Obviously I don’t see the concern, but it could be a real problem in the future.


Regarding transportation. I can get all 7 in my F150 still. I have a fairly simple rack presently that I may need to built some wind shelter into for longer trips in rough weather.

Unofficial yearling weights from dog scale at the vet:
Odin 148
Thor 148
Gunnar 144
Ivar 141
Ragnar 140
Loki 126
Nigel 113

Looks like they are progressing well. I have no experience in animals for packing. But I like the ideas of dealing with them if I raised them. Thanks. Rusty

Well, it looks like the boys will have at least one job that they were designed for this year. I drew a mountain goat license!

Congrats and good luck!

What's the environmentalist situation in CO right now? Are they determined to keep goats away from goats?

It’s more about bighorns, but yes that’s coming. In fact my local national forest is pushing this in occupied bighorn habitat, yet refusing to do anything about domestic sheep grazing in the same places. So I’m working on a comment on their draft resource management plan.

If they are allowing domestic sheep grazing, I can't imagine the basis for restricting any pack animals. GD

Because goat people are an easier target than ranchers.

A couple of new developments:
Gunnar got his head trapped in the feeder and the rest of the boys beat the crap out of him for the day. I don't know if related but he also collapsed on his pasterns. I've managed to get him back up to weight, but still having pastern issues. He's on light duty for now.

Weights as of late June:
Gunnar 167 at vet's office, 7 pounds above what his heart girth measurement indicates. That same metric also puts Thor and Ivar at over 180, Odin and Ragnar also above 160, Nigel at 150ish and Loki close to 140. I still don't really believe the earlier weights I got with Nigel weighing less than Loki.

So I got the kids out for an unladen first attempt at accessing my mountain goat unit off of a road, partly to get out of the house, but also to lay eyes on some of the ground in late May. After slogging for a couple miles in the snow, we gave up and turned around. Couldn't even get close

Next update is first time with any real weight. We put rocks and small logs on plus packed in a few beers in a soft sided cooler and kids stuff for Father's Day and short hike. Gunnar got excused of the duty and Loki left at home to keep him company. Went smoothly, no one had a problem with the pack or the weight and they were all pretty feisty that day, looking to fight, so seemed like they could have used more weight. Also made them cross a deep enough section of creek that Thor went in to his chest and hopped out no worse for wear.

And now for their first overnight pack trip. We kept everyone except Thor under 10% of their body weight. Thor got 20 pounds on the way in, which was maybe 11%. Most awkward aspects was dealing with the sleeping pads that didn't roll up very small. They definitely wanted to upset the loads when wagging back and forth. Also an issue was getting enough weight into each small pannier. The goats had more capacity than the panniers could handle with low density stuff like clothing or loose tents without poles(in our packs). Also brought in more gear than was needed because I wasn't sure how I was going to tie them up at night. Repacking on the return trip we did a lot better job balancing loads. I brought the scale in and kept things with a pound, but still needed a balance rock here and there.
Anyway, they did fantastic. No issues with stamina or cooperation, and the all adapted to trail life and carrying packs extremely well. The boys realized that when we stopped for a breather, they could sit down or browse if they wanted to. Quickly realized the deathly power of a squirt gun could keep them out of the main camp area with the tents and cooking gear. They actively avoided eating poisonous plants like larkspur. They had at least 15 creek crossings over 12 miles, including with some deep and fast moving stuff. It took some coaxing on the fastest stream on the way in, but no problems after that. No hesitation on the return. We still couldn't get up high enough and what was planned as a one way trip turned into an in and out return trip.
Also of interest to me was how disinterested in drinking water they were. I don't know if it was because they had green vegetation to eat, but only two goats took small sips of muddy water on the way in. And four of the six (Gunnar still out) drank in muddy puddles on the way down. They had lots of opportunities at clear creeks, even with the packs off.
All in all, this felt like a success, even though I still couldn't get to the highest basins for my mountain goat hunt, but could glass the rocks from below.







[

Excellent. Thanks for the updates.

Hope that Gunnar recovers. Goats are truly vicious if one is weak or they can take advantage of it...empathy does not exist.

This is a really interesting thread.

I know nothing about goats. What is a pastern?

20 years ago I ran a string of 7 pack goats, Toggenburg and Alpine. They were all wethers and as friendly as a Lab, Once they got above timberline they would go crazy, doing handstands on the edge of cliffs and stuff.At night kelp them tied on a low line, similar to a highline only on the ground. I would run the lowline in the shape of a V and sleep at the top of the V. NOTHING could sneak in on us at night with all those ears, eyes and noses.

BTW they made the BEST mule deer decoys. Sit up on a mountain side with all my goats around and wait for the deer to creep in. However at night mountain lions like to prowl.

If you don't have the book "The Pack Goat" by John Mionczynski get a copy.

That's another term I'm not familiar with is "wethers". What's that mean?

For sure, he had cuts and bruising all up and down his belly and groin area. Bunch of a holes.




It’s like the joint below the dewclaw above the hoof. The dewclaw is almost hitting the ground now




It means boys whose stones are cut off

Reba,
I first got that book in the early 90s and had wanted to try pack goats ever since. There’s a few other resources on them out there but that was a great read too.

Do you have any old photos to share?

It's common to get leg/hip/pastern injuries if one has been beat on. Often the attacker(s) will catch the back leg of the attacked between their horns and lift/twist/ram. I've seen legs broken. It's more likely to happen with the "tighter" more upright horns like your goats have with little space between them. The wider and more open kiko horns make it less of a problem.

My goat packing was before digital cameras.

...i really enjoy this thread. And it all looks like more than alittle high adventure fun!

Terrific scenes.


Thanks for the update

Really like this thread and pictures. Very interesting, can’t wait for your hunt report.

Until now I thought the best way to pack goats was one on each side of a big mule.

Had goats growing up on the homestead in western Canada, it is interesting how they deal with dogs and yotes no backing down. Enjoying you taking us along, keep up the good work. Cheers NC

Any thought as to how to heal the pasterns or would he be a lost cause to you?

Sorry, just saw this. Our focus is MUCH different than yours so I really can't say. For us, as long as the animal's not in pain or debilitated badly we've let time heal things up. We separate one if it's injured enough that it's going to be picked on but try to keep it with a younger female that (hopefully) won't beat on it.

Again, I can't give much advise on healing aside from keeping them separate so they have time to heal. We've had several goats over the years injured that have made it but carried a limp....still have two now...and they're good producers and don't seem to be in pain....but again our use is much different than packing.

Just saw this and thought of this thread:

https://www.napga.org/2019/07/07/pr...eBuzyTW_bRj9GdHRuCntu9Tb7IEOWSde3dlw4Pjs

Yep, who do you think mobilized them? About 40 of the most recent comments are all from pack goat people and my local state house rep said he would comment on the proposed ban today too.

Has CO done anything to outlaw llamas along with the goats? I've read that some states and provinces have attempted to ban them as a 'just in case' in spite of the fact there is no proof whatever that llamas can transmit disease to wild sheep or goats.
There was an attempt in Idaho some years ago to ban all pack animals from the Sawtooth Wilderness area but that wasn't because of disease. It turned out to be some elitist backpackers who didn't like to see manure on the trails. It didn't get very far with the Forest Svc.

Yes the Dominguez-Escalante National Conservation Area bans both llamas and pack goats but doesn’t ban domestic sheep grazing, though they claim to want to convert the sheep allotments to

On a related line...this article appeared in our paper today. The South Hills are a band of low mountains in so. Idaho between the Snake River and the NV & UT borders. About 30 years ago, the IDFG attempted to transplant some bighorns to build a herd in the area. They've never increased much and have had disease problems. There are domestic sheep and goats in the area. They don't say if the diseases can be traced to them but the bighorns have had a rough time of it.
The IDFG finally gave it up. Rather than doing what the liberals would do, ban the sheep and goats that have grazed the area for over 100 years, they eliminated the last 4 bighorns to keep them from spreading their diseases.

JEROME — The Idaho Department of Fish and Game has lethally removed the South Hills’ last four bighorn sheep.

Fish and Game believes that the two ewes and two young rams represented the last remnants of a reintroduction effort that took place between 1986 and 1993.

Fifty bighorn sheep were released in the South Hills’ Unit 54 during that time period, but the population struggled from the outset. Bighorns in the Big Cottonwood area of the South Hills died off, and even though more sheep were introduced, the species continued to have difficulty maintaining healthy numbers.

By 2010, Fish and Game estimated the South Hills was home to 15 bighorns, and due to the proximity of domestic sheep and goat herds, the department determined new reintroductions posed too great of a disease risk — nearby domestic goat and sheep herds threatened to spread respiratory diseases to new bighorns. The population declined further in the 2010s, falling to an estimated 10 in 2017.

Fish and Game said in a press release Wednesday that lethally removing the remaining bighorns was necessary in order to avoid spreading disease. Wildlife managers became increasingly concerned that small South Hills population would travel outside of the South Hills and infect healthy bighorn sheep herds in other areas with respiratory diseases, causing die-offs.

In an effort to avoid the spread of disease, Fish and Game issued bighorn sheep hunting tags for aging rams in 2017 and 2018.

Fish and Game collected biological samples from the final four bighorns after putting them down. The meat from the four animals was processed and sent to local food banks.

Nobody knows if lungworm was introduced by domestic livestock or if it was always here. There is increasing evidence though domestic sheep (and domestic goats) carry a lot of lungworm into the bighorn range and increase the chances of infection. Today, lungworm is everywhere, but it is the densities of the bacteria in areas where domestic sheep graze that are the problem. Lower densities of domestic sheep means lower densities of bacteria. Where there are less domestic sheep, generally it is less likely bighorns will contract pneumonia. That doesn't mean bighorn herds haven't contracted pneumonia, but overall there is a trend.

I think I found my limits with goats. Off trail deadfall bush whacking in the steep stuff was maybe too much. Took me about 4.5 hours to cover maybe 3 miles. Had to really pick out spots and with wet logs from a drizzle we all struggled with footing. Was trying to get around some private to access a high basin and failed. Turned out the open area I saw on onx was actually cliff. Did my first solo overnight trip with the goats, which was successful, even if the route was too much.



Also took Gunnar off the injured reserve list and took him out anyway for his first overnighter. He did fine and I might be seeing signs of his pasterns strengthening.



Getting up in those basins looks so easy from here:


Also been doing some occasional dawn hikes up and out of this canyon for conditioning

Ever heard of a boy scout pack goat merit badge? Well, sort of. 2 years ago, our church switched it's scout troop from BSA to Trail Life. They have trail badges which are equivalent to BSA merit badges. One thing different about TL is that they allow troops to develop their own trail badges. They are then approved by national and made available to all members. We're in the process of developing a pack animal badge. I've been the main instigator on it. What I've done is list a number of general requirements that apply to all pack animals. The member then chooses 1 of several options depending on what animal he's using. He can choose goats, llamas, horses/mules, or even dogs. I've mainly developed the llama option since that's what we're using but I have a little knowledge about goats so I've done some with that one. It's open for other troops to add requirements for the other animals if they choose.

One requirement is to go on an overnight pack trip while having total control over the animal. We just got back from a 3 night pack trip with each boy having his own llama to care for. it was a great trip and the boys got a lot out of it.
Llamas are kind of specialty animal and it's getting very hard to find good ones. Goats are more practical for most backpackers. They're easy to obtain and keep plus easy to train. If someone asks me about pack llamas, I generally aim them toward the goats. I would likely have goats instead of llamas except for llamas ability to carry elk quarters better.

Keep it coming guys. I like this thread and I'd like to see the pictures from when you finally go hunting with them. Thanks.

Rock Chuck, I’ve not heard of the Boy Scouts doing that but 4-h kids even have them at the Fair doing little trail courses on obstacles and stuff with a pack on

BSA doesn't. Trail LIfe does, or it will when we're done developing it.

Pre hunting season 17.5 month old weights from scale at the vet

Thor 189
Odin185
Gunnar 180
Ivar 173
Ragnar 169
Loki 160
Nigel 150

I’ll keep everyone between 15 and 20 pounds this fall

I wonder if one of those pack saddles would work on my 130lb (and growing) dog.

Supposedly, a young, conditioned dog can carry 25% of it's body weight. Some light boned breeds can carry less. On a pack trip, at least it can carry it's own bed and board.

Leaving for mountain goat hunt in the morning. Hunting Monday through Friday so hopefully there’s an update by then. Getting stuff weighed and balanced now. Gonna take the bulkiest stuff on a pack frame, but hopefully essentially 0 weight on me and my buddy. I went on his mountain goat almost exactly 10 years ago.
Got about 3,000 feet to gain tomorrow and that’s if we don’t spot a billy. If we do, could be a 5,000 foot day. Should only be about 5 miles though.

Good luck!

Goat down. I’ll do a more of a packgoat and gear review here and hunt story in general big game later

Sweet!

Congrats! Looking forward to a story and pics.

Yessss!!!!!!

Do the "boys" realize you shot one of their cousins. Cheers NC

So the goats did great. Totally proud of them, they adjusted to trail life quickly. We went through stuff no horse could ever handle. The cliffs and waterfalls stressed me out but they just rolled with it.

I did my part to lead the way, by avoiding the most difficult dead falls. Over chest height I’d try to go around. Multiple dead falls suck but they figured it out. Thick brush was nothing, and just like a horse they push through it.

The goats with minor weaknesses really weren’t. Odin’s big haybelly and getting hot in the sun, was no big deal in mild temperatures. He was usually mid train and if he was huffing and puffing, fair chance I was too.

Nigel and Loki’s smaller size was easily dealt with by just giving Loki the sleeping bags ( on the way back we added ammo on one side and binos on the other). Nigel just got leashes and cables on the way up til we needed room for water, on the way down he got a light load of meat. Nigel is also the only one with any skittish tendencies so I made sure he was hooked up before the shot. Nigel is also the quirkiest, he hates splitting the group up and will call for a little if someone walks off to take a dump or when I did my final stalk. I also had to keep Nigel closest to me and yet still within sight of the others at night to keep him calm.

Gunnar’s soft pasterns caused no issues but he was the most hesitant to jump off a cliff and skid down to us in the creek bottom when we cliffed out. Not necessarily Pastern related but could have been. I didn’t give him a huge load either and didn’t want to do any new damage. Was also prepared to kill him if I really [bleep] him up, but he’s still my favorite and friendliest. And he has the best beard so far.

They really took cues from us. They knew when it was a real break and they could lay down or if a quick break and just when to stand around and browse. They also seemed to know when we were going to camp for the night.

I still have no idea of their water requirements. They went without water, not by choice, until 10am on day 2 and they all needed a drink. But only half even took a drink during some minor stream segments we hit on day 3. They all drank again in day 4. I suspect green vegetation reduces their intake compared to what they drink at home with hay.

Thor, Ivar and Ragnar really seem the most bombproof and have no obvious weaknesses. They kick ass.

Next problem is the kid packs just don’t have enough capacity. I struggled to get enough moderate density stuff like clothes to push their weight limits.

Regarding the dead mountain goat, they flat out didn’t care. Only one of them even looked at it. The goats didn’t give a crap. At the shot, nothing happened, but they were mostly hooked up. Oh and I used Ivar as a decoy, and whether or not it worked, I don’t know, but the mountain goats came down off the cliffs and he was standing out in full visiblity.

So Ivar was a Judas goat.. He He. Good story keep them coming, Cheers NC

Great stuff man...

Late winter update. Got the kids out a couple of times so far this winter to play on the rocks. Haven't put any packs on them though. Santa did bring a hard saddle and much larger panniers. But just one set so far. Gonna cost a boatload to re-oufit them all, so might go piecemeal into this year. Since it's application season, I've got some tough decisions to make. I've got the points for a quality backcountry muzzleloader or first rifle elk hunt here in Colorado and this is the earliest first rifle will be for the next 5 years. But also weighing going to Nevada or Wyoming this year on a deer hunt. Can't count on drawing my bighorn ever. Would like the boys to be one more year older (2 at the end of March) before doing the elk hunt, but I sure don't want to wait another year. 4 of them are over 200 pounds at this point and I'll increase their loads this year to about 15% of body weight this fall, up from 10% their yearling year. Hopefully that means 30 plus plus pounds for the bigger boys and 20ish for the two smaller ones. I suspect Thor, Ivar, Odin and Gunnar will be well over 225 by this coming fall. But Odin is still a fat boy and the first to pant and Gunnar still has weak pasterns, so I don't envision those two pushing 35 or 40 pound loads anytime soon. Total load for the 7 should be over 200 pounds though.
Looking to schedule at least two backpacking trips this summer too. Hunting plans will dictate scouting trips though

Have you tried making your own using a commercial one for a pattern? This top pic is a DIY llama saddle I made. I needed 2 more so I duplicated an old one that's no longer made. The bottom pic is a commercial goat saddle I used to have. It was easy to take it apart and make another one just like it. I found a web sight that sells those short cinches at a pretty low price and I made the rest of the rigging.
Here's a link to the site where I got the saddle. It came in pieces so you can just duplicate them if you're handy with wood. They're easy to assemble. The hardest part is making the breast and britching straps. Not many sewing machines can handle stuff that thick so it takes some innovation. SADDLE KIT

I should try that. I hate wood working but FIL has a pretty serious interest and is retired

2 year old “weigh ins” with the measuring tape today. Thor and Odin came in at 44 inches, which is off chart but should be 225 or so. Gunnar and Ivar both came in at 43 inches which is off the scale of my tape but translating to 215 on some online charts. Ragnar at 42 inches should be 200, Loki and Nigel about 175 pounds each.

Assuming they continue to grow through this fall, and that payloads are between 15 an 20% of body weight in year 2, total gear and meat capacity ought to be 250-300 pounds.

I’m in the running for at least one quality hunt this year(Muzzleloader elk), but that may be the only one they get to go on. Kinda depends on how the draw and luck on leftovers or reissued licenses goes, not just for me but for wifey and FIL. Haven’t done Wyoming draw yet, but leaning away from doing the backcountry deer hunt this year with it overlapping the good elk license. In for Utah though, and if I’m lucky could end up with something nice there to use with the goats.

Good luck with your draws!

great thread, Exbiologist. thanks for "maintaining" all your info + data in one thread.

Where in Colorado are you located? I have been looking into Packgoats for about 9 months and I finally picked 2 this year with plans of 2 more next year. I am excited and this thread makes me more excited.

I’m near Delta. What did you pick up?

I picked up a sable and an alpine/Ober they are roughly 2 months old if you can or will send me a pm I would be interested in talking with you some time. I live near Fort Lupton Colorado your story and pics here are great. I would like to hear more about your goat hunt from last year. You said you were going to post it in a different thread did you ever do that?

Here’s the goat hunt
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14162316/7-in-8-out#Post14162316

I’ll PM you. I think new members can’t PM until 5 posts

Doesn’t appear as I can PM you either

I thought you guys were joking... I’m kind of speechless - I have never heard of this before.

Of the various animals used for packing, goats are the easiest and cheapest to train and raise. The hardest part is inventing goat proof fencing to keep them in.

Just read your story! It’s was very good I’m glad you were successful. I’m sure I feel just like you did but I can’t wait for me to get a few more and I wish they were older already. But it’s a journey For the next couple years. How did they do with 10% for weight? Also where did you get your goats? If you figure out how to PM me please do

I’d say they hardly noticed the weight as long as the load was balanced properly.

I think you’re banned from PMing as a way to curtail classified scammers. I think you need 5 posts.

My kids came from 3 different dairy goat breeders. Thor and Odin from one in the San Luis Valley. Ivar, Gunnar and Ragnar from one south of Durango, and Nigel and Loki from a breeder near Olathe.

I got my goats from packgoats.com. Marc was real nice to talk to and I think he does a pretty good job representing the pack goat community I enjoy watching his videos too

Cool, those goats from him/ Dwite Sharp, are supposed have some size potential. I will warn you that I’ve seen some very small ones from those lines that I attribute to poor feed. I’d keep them on grain and alfalfa for at least a year, then continue on alfalfa after that. I’m not worried about the issues with calcium stones, as I also do other mineral supplements that should help.

Ok thanks right now I have them on Purina grower and give them mana goat balancer and also give the the mana goat mineral too a vet told me not to give them alfalfa at all? I guess it doing well for you your goats look like they are pretty good sized they will be 3 this year? I am still bottle feeding 16 oz milk 2 times a day. They will be 60 days old in a few days I plan on giving them their shots and tarazal for coccicda next week he recommended 30,60,90 days

I am also planning to wait until 90days to band them. Im hoping the goats will get 250# or so where do you think your will finish at?

I’d wait as long as possible to band. If they aren’t exhibiting really bucky behaviors at 3 months, and most won’t, then I’d wait if you can(pissing on their faces or backs of the legs primarily). I can’t for the life of me understand why a vet would say to avoid alfalfa entirely on young kids. When I was a kid that’s all we fed too.They are so scared of urinary calculi, it’s crazy.

My kids are just two this year and four of the 7 around 220ish. I really don’t have a great feel for how big they will get but seems like well over 250 on four of them. Admittedly that’s not far away and if they grow til 3 ish, which they are supposed to, then, maybe getting close to 300. I don’t want to say that too loudly yet though and get my hopes up. I still feed alfalfa exclusively, but have stopped grain at 1. I bottle fed until about four and a half months and around there is where I castrated too.

I have been told if I wait until 3 months they might be to big to band I don’t want to pay a vet. Bill to casterate not sure I want to mess with it myself self. Did you casterate or take to the vet I guess I’ll start with the alfalfa again. My goats have plenty of grass to feed on around my place do you still feed alfalfa if they have plenty to eat just for nutrition?

Yeah I did it myself, you do have to stuff the balls into the banderone at a time as they get pretty big. I should have waited on Loki though, as he just hasn’t developed many of the more masculine features of a buck and his horns and balls (at the time) reflect it.

Definitely supplement at least grain if they are being pasture raised, but probably also alfalfa in the winter to keep their weights up. I have never seen a pasture raised goat break 200. There just isn’t enough nutrition to maximize their growth when young. Obviously milk and grain will be the bulk of it for now.

I can point to a great example of Dwite Sharp lines for sale a week or two ago that are all under 170 as adults and all I can attribute that to is nutrition. If you want to see what I’m talking about I’ll send the link. Most people get insulted when you point that out about their goats though.

Yea I’m good with the banding I thought you “cut” them that’s what I wasn’t wanting to do banding easy enough I might need calf bands instead of goat yea please send me the link I would be disappointed with 170lb goats I’ll be happy with 220 but 250 would be about right I appreciate your knowledge and info.

Since I still can’t PM, though it was just 5 posts. Here’s an example of what I’d be disappointed with, and have to assume it’s a nutrition issue...
Go to the Facebook group New Homes for Packgoats and look at the May 12 post. Scroll down to where he mentions sizes... yikes.

Yea I would be quite disappointed if that’s what happens with mine. I like how he mentions they are his big boys, How did you feed your goats? I’m feeding mine about 18 ounces of milk 2 a day and giving them Purina grower roughly 13/4 lbs a day I’m giving it free choice also I have been giving them a balancer and minerals both from mana. I vaccinated them a few days ago for cd and t and also gave them a product called tarazualtine for coccidia ,I know both are misspelled, I haven’t weighed them yet but I might tomorrow. It should be fun trying to hold them and read the bathroom scale. Lol They don’t seem like they are growing very much. They are right at 60 days. This is probably not the best idea but my phone # is 307-851-1074 text me if you would like to chat. I would love to visit with you

Not sure how to post pics, but I weighed my Goats today.
Trail is my Ober/Alpine and he was 69 days old today and weighed 42.8#’s
Tracker is my Sable and he is 71 days old today and weighed 42.0 #’s. Tracker although lesser weight looks to be a slightly bigger frame and horn growth is a little thicker and larger than Trails

Those are good solid weights

As for your earlier question about grain, It was about a pound a day per goat. Had to eventually put out 7 or 8 feeders to prevent The biggest boys from dominating the grain. I think it was 8 for 7 goats, and would throw half a scoop of grain into each

I mostly used a weight tape, and from about that time frame I had Actual weights 49, 52, 55, 59, 64, 64, 64 pounds on July 13, 2018, putting them at about 112 days.
In early June, so a little closer in age to your goats I had girths between 22 and 25 inches.

I’ve talked to several people from Colorado Division of Wildlife to National Forest Services people in Wyoming and Colorado for the Routt/ Medicine Bow National Forest. not to many of them know a whole lot on Pack Goats. I was trying to gather some intel to weather or not I was going to need to worry about them shutting me down. No one seemed to care they pretty much told me to have fun and not to pack in any hay into the Forrest to feed them unless it was certified. That was there only concern. All of them were good to talk to.

Exbioligist did you draw your muzzleloader elk tag? I drew a fourth season deer tag. this year 4th season is about 1 week later than last so it will most likely Be during the rut.

I did, 4th season could be interesting this year and next when it’s as late as it will ever be

I gotta tag this for later. Great information and well told. Great hunt and pics also. Thanks for posting all of it. We may have to raise some goats.

These goats are very cool. I have not seen anyone else doing as much with their goats as you do. I've seen some alpacas being used, but not goats. Thanks for sharing.

I tried weighing goats this past weekend at 98 days my sable (Tracker) was 65lbs. I was unable to weigh Trail(the Alpine/Oberle) due to him not holding still. I’m going to see if I can get a vet type scale for on the cheap. I was holding the goats and trying to weigh them on a digital scale. That weight might not be accurate but should be close.
I’m taking them up on the Mountain this weekend for a 3 day hike back in along the continental divide. Elevation where we will be is roughly 11,400 down to about 10,600 or so. Should be fun hopefully not still snowed in.

Back to our earlier talk about goats vs wild goats and sheep...
A large sheep company in Idaho has just given up 88,000 acres of permitted grazing. This is one more in a series of large acreage permits going out of business recently. This one has some prime bighorn and goat terrain in it. Some of the land is inside wilderness areas

There's no talk of prohibiting pack goats or any other pack animals at this time. With some of our nutcase environmentalists, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see an attempt at it down the road.

Basically all of the western states that have forest plans coming up seem to be eyeballing banning them. We’ve bought some time locally but other places are looking at various closures and regulations.

AFAB, post some pictures of the kids

Are you affiliated with Gill, "Primitive Hunter". Doesn't he have a squad of backpackin' goats, too?

No, I know there’s another guy on here who has used them in the past. Duck something or other, I think from Nebraska. Hasn’t posted in awhile but seen him on pack goat central a couple years ago, but that site is pretty slow

I took my goats up this past weekend for their first overnight back pack trip. We went up to set trail cameras to prepare for elk season. We are at the top of the continental divide around 11,400 ft elevation we did 10+ miles on Saturday and the goats were amazing I could not have asked for them to behave any better. I worried about them Friday night as they have never been just tied up overnight. I slept in a tent next to them and kept one eye on the. All night. I didn’t get much sleep. We left our tents about 4:00 am so we could get back to an outlook by sun up. We set a couple trail cameras along the way. Saturday night we sat up on a different overlook and watched about 12 cows and calves with 1 bull until dark we ended up just posting up there for the night. We ended up around 14 miles for the trip and the goats Never gave us any trouble. But they were super tired when we were done. I let them rest for a couple days and then I handed them on Wednesday. They were roughly 3.5 months old and a little on the large side to band but we got it done. Over all we had a great trip last weekend. I would like to post pictures but not sure how to.

Nice! I know the feeling of not being able to sleep while worrying about them after dark

Any updates or pics of your goats exbiologist? I went up checking trail cameras yesterday. We went about 10 miles or so. They sure start slowing down when they get tired. It usually me that slows everyone down. But they make me look good

We were on some rocks that drop straight off and they are not afraid at all. They scare me because they walk over the edge and back home they are fairly clumsy. The last thing I need is for one to fall.

I totally get that they scare you to death when they play on the cliffs.
I don’t really have any updates other than they have gotten too heavy for the back of my truck and I haven’t gotten a horse trailer yet. Hope to take three or four next week on a scouting trip overnight.
Weight wise, I threw a tape over a few and they are off the chart so I need to get them on a scale . The smaller ones are 180-190 though. Biggest ones probably over 240, but a little fat. Have only been working out around the house and land l. Haven’t been on a big excursion for a bit with other things taking up needed attention.

Exbioligist,

Just curious if you think 5 goats would be to much weight for a 1/2 ton truck with a short bed. If you average them out It’s around 1250 add 300 pounds for a rack that’s a quite a bit over what I would normally haul. I have a 3/4 ton truck now That I wanted to haul up the 1/2 ton with the goats so I have a dedicated goat hauler. I figured the 1/2 ton will have a little softer suspension and I can’t get a trailer up to where I need to unload the goats. Also I was planning on a cheaper 1/2 ton so I wouldn’t tear up my nicer truck. What do you think? Also do you see any problems getting the 5 goats to fit comfortably in a short bed truck? I could do an extended cab with the long bed but was wanting to do a full 4 door with a short bed. Just asking for ideas. Thank you

I think once they adults, you’ll probably be sagging quite a bit. Not sure you need a 300 pound rack. Mine probably isn’t that heavy, but likely well over 100. I do think there is sufficient room for 2-3 hour drives for 5 in a 6.5 foot bed. My next truck will be an 8 foot bed 3/4 or 1 ton though

So quick update. I did a 3.5 hour drive with that rack and three goats, they seemed no worse for wear, and even got rained on a bit, but were dry when we arrived. I put my ramp on top so maybe that minimized how wet they got but I did see Ragnar shake off.

Now, the play time and lack of hiking showed this weekend with a scouting trip. They haven’t been neglected, but we got a boat and I have not been taking the goats out. 2 of my biggest are fat and they slowed things down so bad on the hike in I had to leash Ragnar to press the other two for more speed. I wanted to pull my hair out. It’s my own fault, but they are not in as good of condition as they should be for this upcoming elk hunt.

Good news is they did great once we got there. Were interested in the elk but never spooky. Figured out quickly that the tarp shelters were theirs to get out of the rain ( a first for them in the backcountry). They didn’t drink a thing in over two days ( left Saturday about 2pm arrived home Monday 2pm) and did pee a little bit still on Monday so had to be taking in some water from feed.

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I hate photobucket

I switched to Imgur. It's much easier to use and it's free. Photobucket dunned me for money.

So with this storm system dumping 12-20 inches(forecasted, so far maybe 6-8), I’ve decided to push my hunt back by a day to let this play out. I may have time, but I doubt it, to get proper weights on the goats. So I just used the weight tape and the 2 littlest boys 41 inches, making them about 190 pounds. Ragnar is off the tape around 42.5 inches so maybe 205-210. The four biggest aren’t identical but Gunnar and Odin have similar girths around 44 inches. Not sure how that computes, but probably in the 220-230 neighborhood. Thor and Ivar are totally off the tape, not just beyond estimating, so I’ll go with 240-250 on them.

Here’s hoping it warms up and thaws the snow a bit for the hunt or else I may consider packing feed in

Those are getting close to llama sized!
Speaking of which, why did you choose goats over llamas?

If I was doing it again, I'd probably go with goats instead of my llamas. The problem is that they're getting very hard to get. Good ones are becoming more rare all the time. The government apparently has stopping importation and the current crop in the US is getting very inbred. You see more bad feet, legs, and backs all the time. Good ones are quite expensive now if you can find them at all. I see a lot of llamas in pastures that are just ornaments but when you get a better look, they're just dog food.

I grew up raising dairy goats at a small scale so it’s what I know and like. Since they are pets 95% of the time, I wanted something friendly.

Nice pics Ex, I’m sitting up on the mountain now weather is pretty windy and snowy ,visibility is about 50 yards. I have not weighed my goats since I guess around July but my one goat is getting big. He starting to gain weight on the other goat. He used to be just fat but now he has gotten longer and taller he’s looking strong . He’s my most personable goat but he’s a big jerk to the other goat. We were hunting last weekend and had some close encounters with some decent elk. I don’t actually plan on taking the goats on hunts until I can actually pack with them but took them scouting quite a bit. The are young but they get pretty tired after 12-14 miles at 10500 plus
I’m also worried in the future I won’t be able to condition them as well as they need.

Just weight ropes measured my goats they both measured 37 inches. One goat looks to be bigger but they both measured the same the chart says 150 pounds which I think is fair when I pick them up I’m not sure where that sits but I’ll log it so I have something to compare my goats next year. At the end of the month they will be 6 months old

Bull down. Everything out now. Goats did great but also screwed up some sets. Everything worked great when they bedded down. They also alerted to one little bull they snuck in quietly thst I didn’t see. I left the kids in camp when I shot my bull while my partner stayed back to watch them. The storm didn’t amount to much, so we overpacked clothing. No big deal.

Good job looking forward to hearing the story. I’m up hunting now and will be all week, we had some close encounters but I haven’t t drawn the bow yet!!
Congratulations!!!!

Well just an update. I was able to shoot a cow elk this past weekend. I was wishing I had my goats and they were a couple more years old. I shot her at 11300 and she was at roughly 10350 on a 44 degree slope. Roughly .54 miles from the road but a mile from truck. After quartering out I carried the rear quarter and both backstraps out. IT was fairly steep and it started snowing which made it a little slick. Got to the road dumped my pack went and got the truck brought it back to my pack and unloaded. That first trip was rough with the weight of my pack and my rifle and everything else that we think we should have just in case. Lol!! The second trip I emptied everything from pack and went down empty and was able to carry out the other rear quarter and a front quarter. That left the front and both loins which I went down this morning and retrieved. It Was 14 degrees this morning and only warmed up to 23 degrees by 11:30. All in all good hunt but I definitely can’t wait for my goats to get old enough to help pack.

Right on! Post some pictures when you can

Idaho closure: I just discovered that the forest service has closed part of the Boulder-Whiteclouds wildness area in Idaho to pack goats. I don't know if this is new or if I just didn't see it before. The forest svc web site is one of the worst I've used for finding anything. All I've been able to find on this is a map. You'd think our fine government could come up with better websites with all the money they waste.

Yeah that one has been talked about for a bit on the goat pages. There’s more coming, but the goat people are getting better at fighting them and just getting tuned in rather than reacting after it’s done.

Just put a deposit down on 2 more baby pack goats. Looking forward to this spring. I need to fence in a couple acres and build another goat shed for my yearlings.

good on you!

I have 3 pack goats. none have been hunting with me yet as they are all too young. I only have 3, and all are alpine wethers. I plan to measure height/weight this weekend, in fact.

Cool! Pictures of baby goats are always welcome

Billy Goat, I’m still trying to figure out how to post pics but like Exbiologist says pics are always welcome. Keep us informed on height and weight and age please!

I might have figured out how to post Pics!!! If So I will start from when they were baby's to what I have going on Now.

This Will Be Tracker (The Black Sable) and Trail (Alpine/Ober)

Here are Some Pics from their first trip up the Mountain

Few More of these Mountain Pics!

Some More PIcs. The Last 2 with the snow are from when I killed my cow but in the same area as the summer Pics

The Last of my pics as of now. Now that I have figured the pic thing out I might try to post some more pics. Cant wait to see your pics Billy Goat, and if Exbio if you have any more please post.

trying to share some goat pictures of my boys. All named after Green Acres characters. Haney, Eb and Ziffel.

fyi, when I weigh them, I save the date, their age, their height in a spreadsheet and compare each goat to see how fast each builds out over time. (yes, I'm an engineer)

Excellent!

Recent random photos. There’s more in the backcountry elk thread from September. The biggest boys are probably over 260 right now, the smallest pushing 200. I’ll get a 3 year old weight in March.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...5698728/backountry-elk-hunt#Post15698728

dang. 260 is alotta goat!

Great pics guys

Ex I hope my goats hit that 260# mark

my goat height/weight data.

as you can see, Ziffel is lagging his elders on weight. he's also got pretty small bones. time will tell, I reckon....

Are those actual weights or are you using a weight tape and girth and height measurements?
I plan on buying a vet scale before next summer

actual weights. I bought a 300# capacity dog scale for about $100 off amazon.

I assume yall are both familiar with, if not actual members of NAPGA?

https://www.napga.org/

I was a member last year, let it lapse a month ago, been meaning to re-up

They actually did help with putting a stop to the GMUG goat ban when they still have active sheep grazing allotments in bighorn country with no plan to alter those

agree. for such a tiny organization, they're pretty effective.

that said.... the domestic sheep hypocrisy is pretty over the top, so it SHOULD be an easy argument.

added to our herd yesterday.

Sam Drucker, Hank Kimball, and Oliver Wendell Douglass joined our herd yesterday. they are only 2-3 weeks old and cute as a button.

we now have 6, which is my planned "peak" herd size.

now they need to put on about 3 years, 200# and a couple feet of height.

I love baby goats! 6 should be about right for getting a two man camp in and one elk out

Can goats be trained to respond to commands?

Yeah, I haven’t done much other than have them respond to a come here call. But that’s a group thing, I’ve never trained a goat to come to its own name. I hear that’s doable. But definitely in that same vein, cart goats respond to commands just like sled dogs.

Also when they crowd the gate to their own I tell them to get back and they do

Great pics I got a call for me to pick up my kids in the next couple weeks. These will get me to 4 I hope everyone’s healthy

So still hoping to get live weights but the taped weight for the two smallest ones suggest 200 and 215 each at 42 and 43 inches. Ragnar is 45 inches and Gunnar about 47 inches. According to pig charts Ragnar might be 240-240 range and Gunnar about 260-270.

Can someone post a link to the original pack goat hunting thread? That was one of the best posts and hunting stories ever!! It should have a sticky in whatever forum it resides.

My girls are raising dappled Boer goats. They'd love to see all the effort and care you've put into working and training yours. I remember it had some great photography too.

I think you’re in that thread. There was another guy from Nebraska here who posted some pack goat stuff previously to me if that’s what you mean. Otherwise I had an original pack goat thread but I could r get the pictures to post for crap. Oh wait, also I stopped paying for photo bucket, so I might have to migrate those pictures over to imgur. I can get the links for the hunting threads tko

I found the pack goat hunt thread. It was in big game hunting, titled "7 in, 8 out"

Oh right gotcha. Did you see last years elk hunt too?

I had one that watched me and learned to lift the gate slide bolt and slide it sideways. It didn't take long to starting hating goat chases. I gave him some inappropriate verbal commands. I had to start using a snap on the bolt.

I'll have to find that one too. Love the pack goat threads. Very cool way to hunt and it really shows how your dedication and hard work pays off and makes memories for a lifetime.

Thing is, with either goats or llamas, it's not that much hard work. Both are very easy to train, much easier than a horse or mule.

Yeah honestly the training was the fun and easy part. The hard part is living with them the rest of the time. Mine are pretty hard on their housing and trailer wiring harnesses and wife’s garden

I can relate to that! My daughters Boer goats try my patience. I think they make it their full time job to exploit weaknesses in my pasture fencing. I also learned not to leave the horse trailer or tractor anywhere near them or it becomes their own personal jungle gym. Lucky I learned that before they shifted their efforts to nibbling on them.

Mine would stand and beat their horns against the barn until they tore the siding off. The llamas aren't so bad. They just chew holes through the T-111

Still haven’t got my hands on a decent trailer that I can afford and have been struggling with getting the boys the more exercise. Did get them out this weekend on the property to just do some headbanging though. It may be hard to tell but damn they are big and pack a punch.











This last one is just for scale

Wow!!! I'm glad you posted the one for scale. How much do your goats weigh?

I don't know why I'm so incredibly intrigued by this pack goat hunting thing. It's seems like such a unique, innovative and utilitarian way to hunt. I guess it's because we recently got our own goats and I've found them to be really unique animals, with each having it's own very distinct personality.

I have t gotten them in a scale in over a year now. Still meaning to do so but they’ve outgrown my vets 200 pound scale. The 4 biggest boys are all well past 250. Maybe you around 275. Thor and Ivar are too fat and Odin has always had a hay belly. Gunnar however has an enormous frame and , his pasterns don’t seem to be as bad as they were so I still hope he can carry a heavy load. The bottom two are about 200-210. Ragnar in the middle around 230 plus or minus 10.

Odin and Loki are for sale, $800 each. I’ll put something together in the classifieds.

First time back out with just the 5 of them instead of 7. Went out for my wife’s deer scouting trip. The goats enabled us to take extra luxuries like more food for breakfast snd things like camp shoes, pillows and other items we’d leave behind if we had to pack it ourselves. We brought the dogs and struck out on finding running water, so we cut the trip little short. We found 17 bucks, so we do want to hunt here for her muzzleloader season but will have to pack in a lot more water than normal if we can’t replenish our own outside of filthy stock tanks. Also learned that I need to trim hooves before we go, as Ivar broke tore the top off a hoof and was moving a lot slower.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16443995/going-in-heavy#Post16443995

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/17619077/1

Wife’s 2022 muzzleloader deer hunt

Getting babies this weekend, I’ll probably dump a [bleep] load of baby and training pics in here again

I'm genuinely looking forward to that, exbiologist!

/John (currentBiologist)

Ex, do you wean them early and bottle feed?

Sorta, I use the term wean to take them off milk. They were all born last week and are all off mom already. So they have been hand raised from birth if that’s what you mean.

Yep, thanks. Cool animals.

Alright, so we ended up with 4 prospects for the year

Olaf is a huge Saanen (all white).



Sven is our special needs kid. He’s a Sable/Alpine cross. Sables are colored saanens so basically look like Alpines from Saanen lines. Think palomino in horses. Sven is struggling to take a bottle right now and is the youngest and smallest kid. Got a good frame but literally weighs less than half of the other boys.



Gustav is what’s called a chamoisee but he’s a full Alpine. If you’ve seen a Chamois you can kinda see why they call this color pattern that. Think buckskin in horses.

Don’t really have a great picture of Gustav yet


Then we have Magnus, he’s all alpine. This color is called cou blanc for white neck. White in front black rear.

If goats didn't hate me...I'd be in...cool thread and thanks!

Enjoy seeing the new ones.

We've had a couple of kids we had to bottle feed either because the nanny rejected them or died. Ends up with a goat that's much easier to handle than the completely hands off herd we keep.

I think we've got around 50 kids on the ground right now. There is one we're having to bottle feed. If at all possible, we try to avoid it, as it's a lot of "extra" for us over momma taking care of it. A bottle fed buck, left intact, can end up a real problem when he gets older. Bottle fed nannies have never been a problem for us. I'm assuming all of yours are wethers?

Dang I can’t imagine the headache 50 kids would be. Yeah they will be wethers, but not until at least 4 months. I’ll wait until they think about Bucky behaviors before banding them. I’ve had good luck by not having any urinary calculi that way plus good size. The big three are all on the nipple bucket already, the little guys Sven is nursing but only in very brief little stints, hoping he figures it out soon.

The higher the number of kids the better for us. Kids really aren't a headache as long as the nanny takes care of them. The rare one we bottle feed is a headache though. If we had to bottle feed all of them I'd never raise one and I'd sell the entire herd! At ~4 months all the bucks will be sold. We've never banded as some buyers prefer intact. Enjoy seeing the updates you give and the very different purpose/perspective is interesting for me to see. Thanks for sharing!

RIP Nigel. I put him down today. Had lost over 50 pounds, I couldn’t get any weight on him, had developed a weird stiff legged gait, then got some huge abcess on his chest, which I drained but couldn’t get to heal and his gait got worse. I felt terrible for the little guy when giving penicillin as his muscle mass was totally down to nothing. Poor guy was a shadow of his self.

Too bad as I’ve just drawn a sweet tag and will need him

Sorry to hear that.

When we first started raising goats, an old man who'd done it for years told me to expect a 10% death rate if we were doing everything right. I thought he was off his rocker at the time...but time has proven to me he was correct. Some years more, some less. Of course we're doing it hands off, raised on pasture/forage, and for production with a herd rather than limited numbers with more oversight like you. With breeding, birthing, age, herd competition, predation (mainly dogs), parasites, and any type of sickness all in the mix, the 10% is really close.

Back when I had breeding animals, I probably did tuna close to 10% loss also. Babies and pregnant dams especially.

So quick update at almost 3 months old. Gustav and Olaf are 60 pounds (Olaf is the tallest though). Sven now outweighs those two after a rough start and a bout with bloat at 64 pounds. Magnus is 70 pounds. Sven and Magnus are more belly heavy than the other two.

Got them out with some water training. They’ve met the big boys but haven’t hiked both of them together yet as I’m trying to make sure they follow me not the big boys. I’m gonna castrate in the next few days as they are starting to stink already, which seems early to me.

Cool stuff ,, thanks for sharing.

New to the forum but glad I found this one! I currently have Nigerian dwarf goats but have been interested in selling them to get some pack goats. I live in Pennsylvania and have started hunting Idaho and hopefully Montana this year. This seems like the most feasible way for me to have pack animals with the long drive. With the long wait until they are old enough to pack hopefully I'll figure out the elk hunting thing a little better lol. Goats are an amazing animal looking forward to the adventure of training them. Our mountains aren't nearly as big but I have some very steep rugged spots that will hopefully be enough to get them the training they need.