With the decreasing availability and increasing cost of 9mm ammo I've been doing a good bit more shooting with the .38 Special, both in .38 and .357 revolvers, and it's like visiting an old friend.

The cases are easy to handle in a single stage or progressive press and like a .308 you can easily cook up an accurate load for it using most any powder even remotely suitable for the purpose, from Bullseye or 231 up to 2400. For those that don't cast there are more weights and styles of .357-.358" cast and jacketed bullets than you can shake a stick at and I'm still seeing a ready supply of those. Recoil even with the heavier loads in lighter revolvers hardly goes over the "snappy" category. Speaking of, those revolvers courteously hand you your empties back instead of disrespectfully tossing them away, another of it's mild mannered attributes.

Good round. A couple of weeks ago I sold my last big bore handgun but will never be without a good .38 and/or .357 revolver.

I like the .38 Special. Always have.

Kids that want to shoot "the big gun" love them too.

Works just as good as 9mm

The .38 rocks, end of story.

Love the 38 Special!

Lightweight sneezers or deer medicine.

This one probably had some of the old 38/44 ammo through it.

Can't say I've seen or had a 38 jam.

But I've never owned a National Match 38 wad gun.

I only own one 38,but it is my wife's Lady Smith.I shoot a lot of 38 loads in.357 cases in my 686.Looked the other day and I have 3 each 3 # coffee cans full of 38 brass and about the same of .357 brass

My favorite and most used handgun cartridge. I’ve shot loads from being able to see the 148 wadcutters in flight to 38/44 equivalent and many in between. Critters from rats and squirrels to wild pigs with a bunch of others in between. Someday I plan to shoot a deer with one of my 38/44s, maybe this winter if I can get close enough.

I need to cast up a pile of bullets and get another bunch of brass gathered up when the weather cools off a little.

That's a pretty Smith. A man's gun, there. The part of me that is my father is drooling!

It went back to Smith for a barrel chop, T hammer and trigger and the high finish re-blue.

Plus it was specifically made for the 358429!

For a couple of years or so I was shooting this daily, mostly with wadcutters or 158 grain ball. An easy revolver to like.
Bob

RGK -

I would like one like that.

A while back I was in Cabela's and saw an 8-3/8" K frame .38 special. They wanted a bit much but it was still hard not to take it home. Real hard.

I wouldn't mind finding a 6" half lug GP100 either

Tom

Or keep your eyes peeled for a clean 6” Security Six. I picked one up for a song 18 months ago.

Expat

Had this one built around 1992 by Frank Glenn, used it for many years in action shooting and ICORE matches. Only a six shooter so not really relevant any more for todays revolver matches for most everyone uses 8 shot 9mm revolvers which lead to a severe disadvantage .
I use it now for steel challenge matches, only five hits required for all stages in SC, so not really at a disadvantage when shooting against autos or hicap revolvers.

My first handgun was a S&W 586 357 mag and I still have it. I've shot thousands of 38s through it. The 38/357 is also the first caliber I ever handloaded for so this round also has a bit of a sentimental value to me as well as being a practical cartridge.

Ditto, I started handloading at age 16 with a Lee Loader for .38/.357. Had a 3 screw Blackhawk and loaded up some .38 Spl rounds, don't remember the load but it used a scoop of whatever Lee recommended. First shot I stuck the revolver out in front of me as far as I could and turned my head away as much as possible, then squeezed the trigger. It went bang instead of kaboom and my new hobby was born.

The compact .38 Special revolvers make a lot of sense.

The 38 special usually gets used in a Highway Patrolman around my place. With the mild 158 gr/ Unique loads it's fed most 22lr pistols move around more.

I would love to pick up an 8 3/8" Model 14, but a 6 inch would do.

38 Special is my favorite handgun cartridge by a large margin. 158-160gr cast and 4.5 to 5grs of Unique has been my mainstay for years.

This Model 15 is my favorite 38.

We've been on a .38 kick around here as well. Earlier this year I bought one of my dream guns, a S&W 60-4 here. Then I gave the 13 year old a SP101 .357 for his birthday. Since then there's been alot of loading and shooting. We're on the verge of trying some mid-range .357s. It takes me back to when I was a kid. I'd load 100 .38 plinkers and shoot them up before lunch, eat, then repeat. Great stuff!

That's good shooting with that J-frame. Not to take away from it at all but one reason I really like the .38 is that groups like that are not uncommon.

That 60-4 is a personal grail of mine as well. Just missed one in excellent shape in a local classifieds this week, one guy called before I did and snagged it. You can find them on gunbroker occasionally but folks want an arm and two legs for them. Smith makes the new ones in .357 but for that frame size I like the original .38 Special chambering.



Speaking of multiple appendage prices, here's one you don't see too often - a Model 36 in the same configuration. I've read that Smith only made a bit over 600 of these. Seller wants $1599 or Take a Shot for this one. Would love to get it but he didn't accept my $400 Take a Shot offer...



Link to ad

I love the narrow sights on the old 36 I have. I shoot it much better than I can my 2” M10. I’ve been wanting to get a 3” for a while now, maybe I’ll happen upon one someday.

M36 with 5gr Unique under a 358156HP. Kinda hard on the Beav

In the waybackwhens, I used to buy the Speer swaged 158 SWCs for next to nothing at a jobber's place just outside Ft. Bragg, and I'd load them over 4.0 231, it was scary how well they shot. I don't have any idea about velocity, but it was a mild load even out of a buddy's M36. I was shooting them out of a M28, so there was about as little recoil as you could imagine. Since the dealer was an RCBS/Speer jobber, he kept prices pretty low. I shot a LOT of those 146 HP half-jackets, too, just upping the charge of 231 or sometimes Blue Dot, if he had any.
I could make that M28 sing............................

Model 442 in the pocket as we speak. My 140 grain JHP hand loads.

Great stuff.. I don;t own a .38 but that is all I shot in my .357's.. Great round and does most of what I need done..

Chief's Special S & W.



Ruger Security-Six

Like the flat latch. I only have one such, it's an I-frame 38 S&W. About as much power as you can get in such a little frame.

I had one of those back in the 1990s. I stupidly sold it in the late 1990s or early 2000s.

JefeMojado, what is the make and model of that red dot sight on your gun? It seems very compact. Nice revolver too BTW.

Looks like a Vortex Venom. Vortex for sure.

Thanks.

The half jacket in 146 and 160 were good bullets. I was working in a gun shop in the early 70’s and got a deal on a Lyman All American turret pistol press, one of those red ones. I loved that thing and kept it for years.

The Speer #8 manual was the book for me, l learned years later that many of the .38 Special loads (especially those using SR4756) were way too high pressure wise.

That is correct, Vortex Venom. The Alchin mount is the real secret, much lower and trimmer than typical rail/Weaver type mount used on many revolver top straps.

4" 15's and 14's are the perfect walkabout 38's. That one definitely fits the bill!

What is this long barreled 14 you speak of?

That's it. I know it would suck for lugging around, but they just have to be a sweet shooting SOB.

I often pack a short barreled 15 on my walkabouts. One of my favorites and has accounted for two rattlesnakes and one wild pig so far this year.

The best carry revolver ever made was short-barreled Model 12 with round butt. They were made for many years yet very few come up for sale on used gun market. At one time these were issued to military intelligence and Air Marshal Service.

It looks like 3 inch barrel. I have seen one on virtual version of Cabela's Gun Library listed for $650, if I recall correctly. Based on the box it was in the gun was made in 1950s or early 60s.

From what I can gather on the net a S&W distributor had some pre-Model 36 Chief's Special revolvers made up with adjustable sights, those had 2" barrels and were made starting in 1955. There may have been other variations but I can't find a lot of info on those. The Model 36-6 with the 3" full underlug barrel and adjustable sights was a limited run of 615 pieces made in 1989.



S&W made a bunch of Model 36's in a 3" fixed sight configuration and those are fairly common.

They did make a kool one in SS with 5" barrel and adjustable sights (Model 60). These can be found for reasonable cost because they came with two-piece barrel construction which S&W guys hate. This would made a wonderful .357 woods kit gun. It came in decent quality blue plastic case instead of useless cardboard box.

There's one in very nice shape at my LGS.

I have one like that, but with an aluminum frame.

My favorite has always been the M19, both 4" and 2 1/2", bought this one shiny new in 1986 and carried it ever since, and it shows, but it's honest wear. Always preferred to carry the 2 1/2" for it never hinders me, be it when I'd carry it horseback, sitting in the truck or daily activity, just never know its there.

Here’s what used to be a S&W Model 15 2” shooting Federal 148 GM38A HBWC ammo: 10 shots two hands double action standing at 50 feet, then 5 shots single action at 50 yards over sandbags*. The .38 SPL is a top accuracy choice for good reason.

* Full disclosure: The one missing shot is at six o’clock, just cutting the 8-ring, hidden by the strategically placed Leupold 2x scope - oops.

I loaded a bunch of those SR4756 loads for myself and other officers back in the 70's when we were unhappy with the round nose 158 grain service ammo we were issued. The maximum listed load with a 125 grain JHP would result in stuck cases that required a hammer blow on the ejector rod to clear the empties, so I reduced it a grain and called it good. I was able to rent a chronograph and they clocked 1,250 fps out of a 4-inch Model 15. There was a very impressive fireball and an ear-splitting report.

Eventually my service revolver started malfunctioning. I had trouble opening and closing the cylinder and the trigger pull was all screwed up. The department sent it back to S&W for servicing and they ended up junking the gun because the frame was "warped". But it never actually blew up, so that proves the loads were safe....

I still have that Speer loading manual, and every now and then I take a look at the .38 Special data and have a good chuckle.

In the 60's I use to load some similar rounds for LEO's on the Albuquerque Police Department. They probably were not that hot though. .About a a little slower than a mid range .357 magnum load in a 38 case.Back then,they were not permitted to carry magnum ammunition or even magnum handguns. They told me they sure stopped the bad guys a lot better than std 38 Sp loads .They were not permitted to carry single actions either, but a close friend of mine qualified with a 45 colt and was able to carry it as a service revolver

Still my favorite handgun cartridge.

Reading through this thread made me just have to pull this one from the safe. It hasn’t seen any use in far too long.



Clark long/heavy 38 wadcutter with Bomar rail which is cut for Clark’s “tuner”. This is a welded up slide which accounts for the color mismatch. Frame has been drilled for a Weigand saddle mount.

One of my favorite handguns is a S&W Model 60, SS with adjustable sights and 3 inch barrel. It is a .357 but I generally only use it with .38 Spl loads. Very soft to shoot with them. A bit more buck with .357 loads

Good story, the Speer No 8 was my first loading manual. I think most of the other loads were okay, just the SR4756.

What I suspect all these years later was that SR4756 varied more than a little from lot to lot. Plus the pressure testing equipment was different from company to company.

I remember one of my shooting buddies loaded some of the 146 Speer Half Jacketed bullets close to the max for SR4756 to shoot in his K-38. He told me it shot flames out the muzzle like his Model 27 .357 3 1/2". Little did we know it was a .357 load, pretty hot one at that. We ditched those loads after his experience. I had been using my Model 28 4" so it didn't seem as bad, but sure felt hot.

I have a 3" barreled 586 chambered in 38 Special. It's a pussycat with regular loads, but it isn't scared of 38-44 loads either.

Where did that one come from? Not that I keep up with every variation made but have never heard of a 586 chambered specifically for .38 Spl.

I don't know how many were made. I bought it new from a place called Jumbo Sports in the 90's. It's the same store where I got a 4" Colt Anaconda in 45 Colt, another rare bird I have come to understand.

SR4756...my second favorite handgun powder of all time right behind Unique...

There was not a "lot to lot" variation...what happened is that Dupont changed the burning rate back about 1980 and didn't bother to tell anyone. It had been about where Blue Dot was and the new stuff was faster closer to Unique. I remember getting a new 8# can and all of a sudden loads that had always shown high velocity with no pressure signs were flattening primers and sticky ejection.

From the new lot I ended up settling on:
Winchester factory primed case
125 grain Sierra HC
8.0 grains of SR4756
Velocity: 1200 from a 2" Model 36...1250 from a 4" Model 15

9.0 would run 1260......10.0 1325...but ejection was not smooth.

6.0 with a 158 grain LSC would duplicate the FBI load at 875 from a 2" and 955 from a 4".


Was also a great powder for .44 Special and .38 Super...really sad day when it was discontinued.

Bob

I hadn’t thought of Jumbo Sports in a long time. My dad took me there to buy my first deer rifle. A Remington M7 18.5 pencil barrel in 260, the first month or so after the 260 was released. I remember it cost $405.27 and they didn’t have any ammo, we had to go to another store to find a couple boxes.

Speaking of .38 Spl., I ordered yet another Model 10 from an out of state gunshop today. I think I'm going to get a IWB rig and make it my CCW.

I've been through a *few* Model 10's in my life. To the extent that no other handgun feels right to me. So I just decided to quit fighting it.

This one will make 5 that I own.

Hickok45 likes 'em too.

They are like potato chips, I have 5 hanging around too. Well 2 are 64's, but still the same.

I've got a pristine 1961 round butt 4" pencil barrel with some aftermarket boot grips that would be a very good CCW. But I can't make myself stick it in a holster and rub the bluing off of it. The one that I've got ordered is the same only a square butt. If it looks as good as it does in the photos I probably won't be able to make myself use it as a carry piece either.

S&W revolvers from the 60s and 70s are too nice to think of them as "just" firearms. They're steel sculpture. I've always thought it a bit unusual that some of the best metalwork that humans have ever produced is in weaponry.

Human males take a lot of pride in the workmanship of their weapons.

If I really wanted to go retro I'd get a shoulder holster for this old 1948 5" M&P.

Nice, Bristoe. I've got several Model 10s (M&Ps), too, to include a couple of early 1950s specimens ("five screws"), one four inch and one six inch. Great classic lines.

I snatched up a bunch of them from various manufacturing periods back when really nice ones still filled up the used gun cases in gun stores for very reasonable prices (between $350 and $450.00, depending on date of manufacture).

I must say, however, that these guns shoot MUCH better for me with a set of Tyler T-Grip Adapters installed.

Hickok says "You probably wouldn't want to make it your carry gun." I don't know about that. A two or three inch barrel (round butt) Model 10 makes a fantastic concealed carry gun in a good IWB holster.

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but the Model 10 (then called the Hand Ejector Model) in .38 Special was first introduced as a black powder cartridge revolver. It was almost immediately, however, transitioned to a smokeless powder loading.

As mentioned, I'm going to use a 4" pencil barrel as a carry gun. It's the handgun that I'm the most familiar with. So I stopped trying to "make" something else work and bought one specifically for that purpose.

These holsters seem as if they would make a Model 10 easy enough to carry and conceal.

http://www.sideguardholsters.com/holsters/DblClip.htm

I put some of these boot grips on my 4" round butt. I like them very well. I have a pair on order for a square butt K frame. They're not as compact as the boot grips but they're very slim in profile,..which makes them good for concealed carry.

https://www.amazon.com/Gun-Grip-Supply-Rosewood-Checkered/dp/B019YJUQJ2

My Father-in-Law has one that has been re-blued and had replacement (S&W) grips. Very nice gun. I haven't seen that gun in so long that I'd forgotten. Somebody had put a rear sight on it too.

I'd really like to get a Model 10, mostly just because, and you can still find them for reasonable at least not outrageous prices.

But being left handed I rarely have good luck with fixed sighted handguns and especially those with a groove rear sight, they shoot to the right for me. Elevation differences are not too bothersome since one needs to allow for some range of trajectory anyway but holding off for windage is a lot more trouble.

Oh well, I can still vicariously enjoy all of y'all's fine pieces.

When left handed people consistently shoot right regardless of which fixed sighted handguns they try, it often means it's your technique, likely the placement of your finger on the trigger or a failure to pull the trigger straight back.

I'm embarrassed to say what I paid for my most recent Model 10. And it probably *will* be my last one. The prices for nice examples really started climbing a few years ago.

I'll still scoop a nice one if I ever sneak up on one at a good price. But it's gotten very unusual to sneak up on a nice older S&W revolver.

I was watching a Model 35 (6" J-frame .22) on gunbroker all week where it sat at $599 until about one hour before the auction ended, then it was bid up to $720 and that's with $50-60 in shipping on top of that.

Kept telling myself all week "I don't need it (but I want it), I don't need it (but I want it)..." and was willing to pay any price with a 6 as the first digit but just had to set a limit on "want" stuff. Unless some radical change occurs S&W's are the new Colt Snakes and have been for a while. The old Colts have been priced up out of most folks' reach so now they're looking at Smiths as the new collectibles and pretty much any pre-lock Smith qualifies.

I know, I know, they're only going to get more expensive but my fun budget rate of increase isn't keeping pace with the rising intersection of supply and demand these days and a fellow just has to get picky and set limits.

This week I have to talk myself out of this one for reasons previously given plus the fact that I've bought another Smith .38, a Ruger SP101 and getting a Model 14 reblued all within the last month.

5" thin barrel, post 1980 but still a beauty. $600 buy it now.





If anyone wants it, here's the link.

That's a nice one because it has the six inch pencil barrel, no key lock, and still has the firing pin on the hammer and forged steel trigger, hammer, and sear. Not to mention being in pristine condition. All despite not being pre-82 (so no pinned barrel).

You don't see many of these around, that's why I grabbed it.

I've got one of those just like that in virtually 100% condition that was made in '63. I bought it off of gunbroker about 10 years ago for $240. Even at the time I knew it was a good price to pay for it. But considering what's going on with them, I wouldn't take $600 for it today.

They're not making any more of them. Once it's gone, it's gone. And if I ever want another one it'll cost more than I sold the last one for.

Yep, a pre-82 Model 64. Not that common. I think I have a two inch, round butt, one of those. I seem to remember owning it. Might have sold it, but think it's still in the safe somewhere.

Yep. Exactly.


PS Hey, I just hit 100,000 posts. That's a record. Does that make me the first Campfire Demigod?

Damn, I'm still just a Campfire Oracle. What's up, Rick?

Stainless/walnut is a terrific combination we don’t see enough of.

You have transcended titles...

LOL.

Pre-82? Yes, but it's the no dash 64, the only 64 with a pencil barrel. Made for 2 years.

You guys are killing me, making me want to spend money.

How about a big cop gun.
Transitional H/D from 1946 or so.

5 inch Model 10's are right mix for shooting and portability.

.38 Special wise I only have a few...

Two S&W 12-2s. Round butt 4" barrel. One has some finish loss but neither look like they have been shot at all. Both came from the same shop a couple of weeks apart and look like maybe some security company trade ins... Very light, handy and points well..

649-1 stainless Bodyguard 2". Has been fitted with a second cylinder that will also run .38 Super and 9mm via moon clips. Probably my favorite snubbie ever...

.38 Super at 5 yards...




60-1 2" with adjustable sights...an Ashland Distributor exclusive back in the 1980s...have a consecutive pair that I let one of my long time friends buy the second gun...the sole survivor gets both guns..




And up until a couple of days ago I had a 60-4 3" with adjustable sights but let someone talk me out of it..have a pair of 60-10s so this one was just a safe queen...now it will be where .38s are appreciated...





..oh and forgot one...my favorite .38 isn't just a .38 it is more .357...a 4" S&W Heavy Duty...










...we were both made in 1952 but I have more wear....

Bob

I’ve been thinking I might like a skinny barrel Kframe lately. A5 or 6 inch M10 might be just the ticket.

Oh cool. Might be quite valuable.

8 3/8" matching pair, .22LR and .38 Spec., both with target hammers and triggers. I sculpted the grips to fit then used textured paint. Not the prettiest but very functioinal.

That .22 reminds me of a story I gotta tell. My daughter married a city slicker from Metairie, now a high powered New Orleans tax lawyer. Great guy, very intelligent.

We had all come in from a friend's wedding, it was dark. S-I-L mentioned he had seen a coon run up a pecan tree in the front yard, and when asked, pointed out the tree. Those coons had been crapping on the wife's porch, makes her very mad, so that one was doomed. I went in the house, got the long .22 Smith and a good light. I walked out, shined that coon and shot him out of the tree, landing with a thud on the ground.

My S-I-L and daughter were standing on the front porch, maybe 30 yds away, watching the action. He commented that this was his first hunting trip. It was hard to not laugh, but he was sincere. Those city kids live a sheltered life. And, he thinks that was "hunting"... Oh well, what ya gonna tell him... How do you explain. I just nodded in agreement... Not a bad trip, actually. A dead critter not 30 yds from the front door.... No briars, stickers, just manicured lawn...

DF

Then, there's this cowboy action .38 spec, 3rd Gen. pair with dead elephant, deep dish medallions and some engraving.

DF

You need a matched pair.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/872560052

Can't go wrong with a 38. Here are my favorites.

i wish you could still get them they were the bomb

Nice. 3" Model 36 and what's the story on the Model 10? (I assume it's a 10)

Ya know, I should know better than to start threads like this. Or to stay off of gunbroker, one of the two.

Looking at all of these fine revolvers is giving me a severe case of the Iwantits.

The Model 10 had a small rust issue on one side panel. Nothing bad, so I had it case colored by Bobby Tyler out of Texas, some years ago. The rest of the bluing was in great shape. I really do like this one. It shoots well and just plain feels good in the hand.

Starting price is $300 over what I paid, I'll pass.

I know what you mean. I had a hard time paying what they asked for my most recent Model 10.

Mine was bought 2 years ago, give or take.

That said, they ain't making them any longer.

Not to hijack the thread but what would be a good standard load, not +P for plinking and self defense?

3" barreled J frame.

4.5gr to 5gr of Unique under a 150-170 cast bullet is a good load. The old standard 3.5gr of Bullseye is accurate and will really stretch a pound of powder.

Yep. I've been shooting 4.5grs of Unique since Moses wore short pants. Universal should work just as well.

https://www.nereloading.com/index.p...mi-wadcutter-hollow-point-250-count.html

I had no idea they were a problem to get. I have several boxes sitting on the shelf. They are a tough to beat light/mid-range load bullet that work with fixed sight Smith's.

One thing I'll say about S&W, after owning a truckload of their fixed sight 38's. I've never had one that wouldn't shoot POA with 158's.

I will keep that in mind for sure.

And it's 'say', not saw. My dumb ass fingers.

Got up early today and cast a pile of 150 SWCs with my RCBS 38-150KT mold. Sized and loaded some of them over 6.0gr of AA5 and headed to the farm. Put the first 5 from 40 yards in a 3” group from sitting position shooting my 38/44 outdoorsman. Hadn’t used AA5 in the 38 before but had my measure full from loading 32 H&R this morning. Very clean burning and shoots good enough for me, book says it should be going about 950fps.

I just picked up a Ruger LCRx, 3" .38 spec. The DA is very smooth, the SA, not bad.

For the price, that's a good gun.

DF

Been shooting this one a lot lately. It was my issued duty gun a long time ago. Been sitting in the back of the safe since retirement, unloved. Still a great revolver.
Bob

S&W 67 .38

You were heeled right handsome with that one, still are. Thanks for posting that good photograph.

Sorry, double picture post. Dirtfarmer is the only one who owns Colt 38's?

There's a Diamondback, Officers Model Target and Officer's Model Match somewhere here.

The Diamondback is okay (I wish it was a 22 some days). Both Officer's Models are two silly shooting 38's.

I've got the very same gun. Bought mine in the early to middle 1980s. Still have it, but haven't shot it in at least ten years.

The older S&W revolvers had more attention to detail and were more expensive to make. Features were pinned barrel, chambers recessed for cartridge rims, extra screws in the frame, wood grips with better checkering and "diamond" surrounding grip screws, forged or milled components. Newer guns do not have them making them cheaper to make. Manufacturers refer to such products as more advanced designs.

If you have guns you haven't shot or taken out of safe for long time now is a good time to sell. People want them and laws aren't strict enough yet to makes sales between individuals more difficult or impossible. If you hold on it might be more difficult to sell because as Michael Moore said it is still possible for Trump to win re-election.

The D frame Colt is a perfect size for the .38 Special. I've owned a couple different Detective Specials, always wanted a Diamondback.

Mine shoots very well

Big fan of the Colt D-Frame, myself. I carried a 1950s Detective Special for years.

There are a few of us old timers with the Detective Specials. I've got 3 of them. Love them!! They point well too.

I posted the pic in the thread Revolvers for Concealed Carry.

The top gun is a Cobra.

Not meant to be shot a ton, hence the all steel twin under it.

A Colt DS will work.
Bob

That will work, for sure. Very nice old revolver.

Nice one, my son picked up a Model 15 (68 vintage) that had not been fired much if at all a few weeks ago, and had just picked up a Model 14 that hadn't been fired after it left the factory...both had boxes and all paperwork. The 14 is a real shooter with Federal Wadcutters.

I traded into a Model 67 when they came out, mine had the red ramp front sight and IIRC the rear sight assembly was blackened stainless (it faded to a dark gray after a few years).

A Model 67 no dash, round-butted by bench grinder and file, then a checkering file to recut backstrap serrations, and Hogue Bantam grip installed. A HiViz front sight was epoxied in an eighth inch slot cut into where the old one was ground off. A taller rear slight blade, with deepened and widened notch, and an 11 pound trigger rebound spring were installed.

Voila! It’s a Smith collector’s nightmare, but a slightly more compact, easier to carry, nimble handling 4” 38 Special, with an absolutely excellent sight picture for aging eyesight.

I really like those sight modifications. That silver front blade they put on the first generations of stainless revolvers reflected light badly and made it difficult to get a really precise sight picture. They still do that for fixed sight revolvers but from what I can see they now put a black blade with red ramp insert or some kind of hi-viz front sight on all of their stainless models with adjustable sights.

An example of how it shoots, except for that one pulled shot, of course. Hey, when it happens, might as well own it along with the good ones.

Ex, why do you only load five?

The_Real_Hawkeye,

Cartridge boxes are set up with ten rows of five rounds each, so it’s easy to keep count. Plus, I got my start in Bullseye competition for my Army post pistol team in the early ‘70s, where each target is shot with five rounds twice. And, accuracy standards are usually expressed in terms of the size of five shot groups.

It also translates the performance results to my five-shooters:



It seems there’s always one that gets away.

Got it. Thanks.

But, when it comes to carrying a .38 Special revolver, it’s fully loaded along with a speed-loader or two. I do have some experience shooting six at a time, as well:





This target, scoring 595-34x, was shot at a PPC match forty-five years ago, though I likely can’t duplicate that level of performance anymore.

I’ve had a long and loving relationship with the .38 Special, which really began in earnest during August, 1968, at the CHP Academy.

Nice work and very nice guns.

And, I got paid to do it, too. Hard to beat that!




The .38 Special has done very well for me. If you include a couple of .357s too, I still have ten of them. They seem to follow me home.

Looks like you missed a 600-34X by about a combined total of 2". That is working the double-action.

Did you know Ponch?

No, I didn’t know Ponch. But, I did get to preview the CHiPs pilot episode while I was TDY at the Academy function testing and sighting-in new stainless S&W Model 68s by the truckload. Talk about trigger finger calluses . . .

A truckload of those 68’s would be nice.....

Now, yes. But, at the time, not so nice.

Those 68s were truly excellent revolvers. There were very few rejects (don’t think I had any), which was rather surprising considering the volume. I got to where I could guesstimate and make the necessary sight adjustments as a revolver came out of the box, then skip-load three rounds, pull the trigger six times, have the three rounds in the black at 25 yards, with function testing completed too, then back in the box to be issued. That was certainly a memorable time.

The Colt Officer’s Model Match .38 Special revolvers the CHP issued to my Academy class in ‘68 were trash, to the point of being dangerous. Cylinders would spin past lock as the trigger was cycled. I kept mine the required year, then sold it on my first anniversary without ever firing it - was afraid to.

That looks like a Bill Davis gun, I used to work there.

Actually, Bill Davis was still firearms instructor at the CHP Academy when he built the gun I used to shoot that target, using an Apex multi-groove barrel (the gun pictured is a very recent version I built using a Clark barrel from Brownells). Because I needed a proper gun for an upcoming match, Bill lent me his K38 while he had my Model 15 for the build. Bill’s K38 was absolutely frigging filthy, but he made me promise on pain of death not to clean it (except for surface wiping) because the bore was by then very well seasoned by thousands of greasy wadcutters and he didn’t want to start over.

I once watched Bill giving advice to a new shooter next to him while he, himself, was shooting all Xs from the seven yard line during a PPC match in San Rafael. Bill and Wayne Johnson still hold an unbreakable two man team NRA PPC record for one component event. It has been equaled many times since, but can never be broken because it was the first perfect score.

In more recent years, I visited with Bill at the SHOT Show each January until he was no longer able to attend. He was a remarkable fellow. I miss him.

I never heard of a Model 68 until a few years ago. Great platform for a .38 Special.

A K-38 was my favorite centerfire S&W, sure moved a lot of lead through one.

A model 68 is the perfect .38. Love mine. I sent this back to S&W long ago for the patridge (post) front sight. One of my favorite handguns.
Bob

Is Bill Davis the half of Cake-Davis? I almost had them build me a piece many years ago.

Here's a target shot by a S&W Model 60-4. RJM says I talked him out of it but I'd say he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Either way you look at it, it's a shooter.

The 60-4 was the original J-frame version with the 3" full underlug barrel and adjustable sights. They later changed that to .357 Magnum but to my way of thinking that's a bit too much of a good thing in such a small package so I always liked the one chambered specifically for the .38. I had bought one for a girlfriend when they first came out and liked it so much I almost didn't want to give it to her (the revolver that is, let's keep the entendres single). It became a grail gun for me but prices rose beyond what I wanted to pay, when you could even find one. So a shout out to RJM for offering this at a good price.

I've put a few hundred rounds through it so far and settled on two loads, the one below at 750 fps and another one using True Blue at 850. 10.0 grains of 2400 will take this 160 grain SWC up to just at 1000 fps but a) recoil and muzzle blast start getting frisky at that speed and b) although the revolver is rated for +P I don't want to push it when 850 fps is all that's needed.


25 rounds at 10 yards offhand. This shoots just a tad above the POA while the 850 fps load prints right on top of the front sight.

Here's mine, posted earlier. I found the addition of a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight helpful. I also bought a new j frame rear sight and used painters tape and spray paint to make it a white outline rear.

Jim,

Were those fired single action or double action?

Either way that's great shooting!

Single action, 25yds off sandbags. It likes that load!

I was actually responding to Jim in Idaho, and you posted before I finished my response, so it looked like I was responding to you. But...yours is good shooting too!

The one posted here was single action, two hands offhand hold at an indoor range. I fired 15 rounds double action combat mode, i.e. as fast as I could squeeze the trigger, and the group covers about the same spread horizontally but strings out vertically to cover the whole 9 ring, still have a fair bit work to do there.

But hey, it's the fire, gotta put your best braggin' group forward...

Ruger with python barrel, built by Bill "cake" Davis. Have owned for 30 some odd years. Mostly shoot 38 Specials. Fun Gun!

Style points right there!

It’s a Ruthon. Looks better that the Python IMO

Couger!

Yup,its a Couger!

Adding a bit less of a braggin' pic. This target shows 25 rounds fired at 20 yards from the same Smith Model 60-4, 3" J-frame. Rounds were fired single action, offhand, two hand hold. I did adjust the sight to the right slightly after the first 10 rounds. This little M60 isn't a target revolver for absolute precision work but as a companion gun it will fill the bill nicely.

...you put more rounds through that gun in one outting then I did in the 5 years I owned it...glad it went to a good home...

Bob

Sure is nice out of a lever gun with a silencer

While I tend to pack a Glock 9mm in 26 and 43 models (I learned my lesson during Dollar Bill Clinton's reign, I have plenty of ammo) I still use my trusted 686-3 snub.

The holster is a S&W suede lined thumb break I found at a mom&pop gun shop for $15. Fits it like a glove.

Stuffed it with Buffalo Bore 158gr SWCHP .38s. 1050 fps from that 2 1/2 barrel. Secret Service grips to!

Plenty of field or street use. Carried it today!

Nothing at all wrong with that shooting... Nice

Some notable 38 specials.
1. S&W 642
2. S&W 640 38spl only no dash (pre 357) probably the best balanced pocket 38 IMO
3. S&W 10-8 (and later) RB 3” mid barrel & HB
4. S&W 10-7 to 10-12 pencil and HB
5. S&W 64 3” & 4”
6. S&W 67
7. S&W 15
8. Ruger sp101 38 special only 2.25” #5737
9. Colt Detective Special gen 2

Indeed. Know the feeling.

RJM enables in many ways. Lol.

Nice shooting, Jim.

I wonder if I built that one; we did a lot of Smolts at Davis. BTW, do you know why he was referred to as “Cake” Davis?

Well it’s actually a magnum but all it has ever shot was 38 wadcutters. Gamed the game back in the early 90s.

Because he got George’s stuff.

That 68 has certainly done right by you, Bob. Sights can certainly make the difference, eh? Did you do anything with the rear sight blade?



This S&W Model 41 blade provided a deeper notch, showing more front sight in lower peripheral vision to confirm lateral alignment while focus was concentrated on the top of the front sight.

I tried K Frame Pachmayr Presentation grips a number of times. But, just couldn’t successfully adapt my double action trigger technique to the longer reach. I needed the exposed backstrap.

Steve

Wow I did a Triple-Take when I saw that pic! LOL... My eyes were thinking "this just doesn't compute!!!"

That's def unique!

Yep! The reason I ask is because for some reason there was some rumor that persisted for the longest time that there was a cake shop next-door and the signs just kind of ran together. I worked at the West Sacramento shop.

It’s a lot easier to put a python barrel on a Ruger then it is a Smith and Wesson because you don’t have to cut a new crane lock.

Funny to see this thread, but lately I've gone into 38/357 almost exclusively anymore - for CCW and plinking/shooting. I carry my 3" 686+ from morning til bedtime, to me the 38 Spl is just an all-time classic and is such a joy to shoot, easy to reload for, etc. Ammo is reasonably priced and easy to find (lately not so easy, but you know what i mean).

On my 642s I have hand filed the sights more narrow. It takes a steady hand If you don’t have access to a mill. I get them down to .10”. Makes a huge difference. The sights on my 60s & 36s are better as well 60-7 and 36-7.

What's your favorite snake medicine for that revolver...

It seems a revolver is my only sure cycler for rat shot

Funny, but I first got addicted to the 38 Special from my wife. She picked up a mid 1960s Colt Trooper in 38 Special at a gun show and had to have it. She is scary accurate with it. I don't want to make her mad!.

My daughter fell in love with it too and we found one for her also. Turns out the serial numbers on the two are only about 850 apart. She is almost as good with it as my wife.

Long story short, we now have several revolvers, all in 38/357. Other than 22s, they are the only handguns we own and will probably remain that way. We are hooked.

GunGeek, maybe you built it? This one has a double action smoother than anything I have seen. When I bought it, was told it was built for PPC competition. Bought it sometime in the 80's.

Same as my general use 38 load. 150-170gr SWC cast out of wheel weights over 5gr of Unique, CCI 500 primer in whatever mixed brass I grab out of the bucket.

TheKid, what molds are your favorites?

Hey, speaking of .38 Specials...

About an hour ago I picked up a 1965 vintage S&W Model 15-2 from my FFL guy. Excellent condition, I'd call it 98-99% on the metal with only minor wear on the recoil shield and hardly any turn line on the cylinder. TT and TH, .004" b/c gap with uniform chamber throats that will just allow a .357 jacketed bullet through. Seller said it lived most of its life in a safe and I believe it.

However, that safe queen status is definitely going to change for this one, starting tomorrow morning.

Current favorite for easy button usage is the RCBS 38-150KT. Mine drops bullets at .3585 out of clip on wheel weights with some 50/50 solder added which I size to .357 and lube with RCBS Green. They fit the throats in my 38/44 Outdoorsman, which is the 38 I shoot the most. I also have a 358429 single cavity and a 358156 that I chucked up in the lathe and converted to throw hollow points.
The RCBS shoots the best in the most revolvers and is easiest to cast with.

Different fix, same result:



When I couldn’t get a satisfactory sight picture with the too-wide, eighth-inch, stock front sight on my Model 640, I installed an old Model 60 barrel with its 1/10” front sight, then lowered that sight till 129gr Hydra-Shoks were all in the black at 25 yards. Very satisfying. Now, twenty years later, the light must be just so before I can adequately see those sights.

Excellent pick-up, Jim! Enjoy.

(I have a pristine 15-4).

is there anything you can to do now to help see the sights better?

With age comes wisdom, and deteriorating eyesight. That 640 is still very shootable in good light, has a most excellent trigger, and looks just too cool to change barrels again. Its lightweight 642 stable mate, on the hand, had its eighth-inch front sight milled to accept an XS Sights Standard Dot Tritium front, which is very easy to see and not at all light dependent:


Please ignore the flyer. 135gr +P GDHP Short Barrel ammo is just too ‘spensive to shoot up trying for a better looking 15 yard target.

That XS front sight covers the entire black bullseye at 15 yards, and makes sighting easy: Just center that front sight on the paper, covering the black, and use your best double action trigger technique.

Idaho, have you found out if that Masterpiece shoots as good as it looks?

Yes, and so far so good. Initially tried seven loads yesterday morning, 10 shot groups at 25 yards rested over sandbags, and the best one was 1 1/4" with a few others hovering either side of 2". The most accurate one was also the fastest - 5.5 grains of True Blue. Haven't chronographed it out of this revolver yet but interpolating its performance based on this same load in the 3" M60 and a 6" M14 it should be going about 900 fps.

Three bullets tried were the Hornady 148 HBWC, a Missouri Bullet Company 148 DEWC and my own cast Accurate 358160A, a powder coated 160 grain WFN. It gave me a bit of smug satisfaction that the three loads using my own cast bullets were the three most accurate ones.

The bullets were all .358" diameter and the chamber throats measure .357, so tomorrow I'm going to try two 15 shot groups with the best performing load; one group with the .358 bullets again and one with them sized to .357.

I think that's probably what they mean when they say as good as it gets.

who did the work? How is that sight affixed?

Any competent machinist can do the work, following the clear instructions which XS provides with the sight. Then, the XS sight is simply epoxied onto the stud which was created by machining down the old front sight. If the POI was at the top of the original front sight, it’ll be behind the center of the dot on the XS sight.

It's certainly a possibility, but who knows. Since I was the "kid" in the shop, they had me mostly working on the easier stuff like action jobs; so a LOT of revolvers crossed my bench when it came to action work...it was our bread and butter. I had built a few Smolt's and Cougers, and I was well practiced on Ruger double actions, so it's a possibility.

A joy to read this thread. My first handgun soon as I was an official Texas resident was a 3” Mod 60 in .38 Special. As soon as soon as they made it a .357 I upgraded. That Model 60 served as a do everything handgun for years, also kept on hand for home defense.

My first cc gun was a blued Mod 39 Bodyguard Airweight, after they revamped the j-frames I replaced that with the grey Airweight version (the ones where they took the firing pin off the hammer and made all Airweight cylinders .357 length, I dunno the Model number).

My Ex recently took that grey Bodyguard because, technically, it was hers.

So I went back to the blued 39 but by now I treasure it so much I’d rather leave it in the safe. Been looking around, at this time of civil unrest all I’ve been seeing is the hammerless 442’s.

So just yesterday there was gunshow in town, other than a high-priced original 60’s version there were only two Airweights on display in the whole show, both 442’s.

So I bought one, though I’d much prefer a shrouded hammer. I put my preferred Uncle Mike’s “Combat” grip on it and it’s good to go.

One thing I had forgotten about tho is the fuggin “safety locks” it’s been that long since I’ve bought a S&W.

Of course I intend never to use it, do these “safety locks” ever cause problems?

The only ones I’ve ever seen cause issues were on 329 Scandium 44 mags. They would lock themselves under heavy recoil.

I don’t own any guns with the lock but I’d get a “Plug” from the guy on the S&W forum if I did.

Hey, tks, might be the same guy online too.

https://www.originalprecision.com/lock-delete-kit.html

Yep, that's him. Have a couple on J frames.

The S&W lock does have one good use. If your flight connects through Chicago, and should your baggage with the gun in it go “missing,” it is at least of some small consolation to know that the thief will be thinking unkind thoughts of you.

I could never get the lock to deploy spontaneously.

Nor I, but I’ve talked to two guys it happened to. One with a scandium .44 and the other with a .460.

I’d not have a new S&W with the lock unless it was disabled.

I've had a few; only have one now... 617. My 617 has an obscene number of rounds through it and it has never given me any hint of trouble; absolutely fantastic revolver. I had a 340 J frame .357 which developed WAY more recoil than any .44 or .460 and I could never get it to deploy. I also had a 431 that, while not a .357...it's still a banger you don't want to shoot all day...never a problem.

Wish they made a 340 or 340PD in 38 special only.

The 437 PD that I have will lock itself if you shoot fast double action, until I removed the lock

At last! A legit reason for a lock

On the topic of the .38 Special in general a friend of mine has said “despite the rapid advances in bullet technology and the subsequent increases in the effectiveness of other calibers, specifically the 9mm, and the guns that fire them, all the bad guys killed by the Cops back then with their .38 Special revolvers are still dead.” 🙂

To summarize a story I read some time ago among the gun literature discussing the relative merits and stopping power of various handgun rounds:

In the 1970's a black NY Transit Authority cop had a shootout with a wanted bank robber. The cop had his .38 revolver and the bad guy had a 1911 .45. Both of them emptied their pistols at each other from spitting distance, just a few yards apart. When it was over the cop was standing unscathed and the bank robber was dead.

When asked about it later, the cop said, "shootin' straight with my thirty eight beats him givin' me jive with a forty five."






Hmm, something about accuracy or hitting the target being the most important factor might make a good sig line...

What he said.

Few things are as fun as a .38 Special for punching paper:

Google Jim Cerillo (spelling?)… 38 worked for hi,…aLOT

Jesus Christ...

LOL...

In Jim Cirillo's case, obviously he was a superb shooter and calm under pressure in a fight, but he also chose to use different ammo than that which was issued to the NYPD.

For a long time the issued load was a round nose lead load at 700FPS. Cirillo chose to use custom produced Super-Vel ammo that was a 110 grain hollow point, as 1125 FPS. This was for his K Frames.

For his 2" Colt Cobra, Cirillo chose to load it with Wadcutters, knowing that the most hollow points won't expand in short barrels and wadcutters do very well from a terminal ballistics standpoint.

Cirrilo knew that wadcutters work well in short barreled revolvers. They worked back then and they work now.

Looking at that M68 makes me think impure thoughts.

Mackay,
How do you find the trigger on your Security Six? I have a pristine 6” SS model I picked up for a song a few years back. Shot it a lot. Installed lighter springs. Dry fired it a lot. I still find it to be in a word; rough. I can hit with it double and single action, but it is so much work compared to my S&Ws. All in all I love the revolver, but sometimes thoughts of replacing it with a 3” M65 or 6” M19 creep into my head.

Expat

They do….

They generally tend to be heavier than Smiths. Not unworkable though. Mine is totally stock and is heavy but I don't mind too much, as I don't care as much about the trigger pull weight, as I do smoothness. If it is smooth then (for me at least) I can shoot it well enough. I have shot a few Ruger Security/GP100 series that have had some excellent trigger work done on them, and they were truly excellent, but it requires a smith who is good at doing such jobs. The GP100 and Security/Service-6 series are excellent guns and for a guy who is going to pound a lot of magnum rounds down range, I don't think you can do much better.

It's good to see that this thread is still alive and well, just like the .38 Special...

You're right! Been shooting this a lot lately...my old issued M67 that I bought from the city after retiring. Still an excellent package. Holster is a Hoyt breakfront.
Bob

.38 spl will always be around. I am very fond of the cartridge. Fun to shoot.

The cartridge will be around forever. Many newbs leave gun shops with small light revolvers as their first ccw. These are usually Taurus, S&W or sometimes Ruger. With DAO one can easily miss "barn door at five paces".😂

The cartridge will be around forever. Many newbs leave gun shops with small light revolvers as their first ccw. These are usually Taurus, S&W or sometimes Ruger. With DAO one can easily miss "barn door at five paces". With .357 load must make first shot count at all costs.😂