I have a pistol on a local classifieds and am getting young people around 19 and 20. Far as I know 21 is a federal law for handguns. They do allow concealed carry at 18 here, but I figure the parents had to purchase the gun for them.

One of them sent me this link: First time I'd seen it. https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-individual-between-ages-18-and-21-years-age-acquire-handgun-unlicensed#:~:text=An%20individual%20between%2018%20and,possessing%20firearms%20under%20federal%20law

Am I the only one that's behind the times??

The 21 rule is only for buying new from an FFL. Some states (the ones you don't want to live in) may have their own rules.

If there is ANY doubt...


"...you know the thing...the thing!"

"C'mon, man!"

Why would you ask how old someone is? Do you ask if they are from the same state? Do you ask if they are a felon?

It’s not your responsibility to know if they’re legal.

In a lot of states it IS your responsibility. As dumb as that is.

I dont get rid of guns, but I wouldn't sell to under 21.
Pa requires transferring ownership, if your state doesn't I
would still do a signed Bill of sale for both parties.
If ever ask, it shows who and when you a sold it.

Might not be my responsibility but I sleep better at night knowing I asked the person buying it if they can legally own it.

Follow your heart.

does look matter?

I gave some pistols to a couple teenage kids one time. Had their dads permission first, tho....

It's only a gun - It's not like you're offering them 'candy'.

Many on this site are gun people, we like guns we would have multiples of everything we like if we could afford it. Not many have ever said it was wrong or incorrect to value a nice or large firearm collection. Now we have liberal gunhaters in federal offices who want nothing more than to reduce the numbers of people who have and own firearms. For absolutely no reason other than from fear and ignorance of them they don't want others to have them. So history has given us thousands of gun laws that don't work for the simple reason that guns don't kill people , people kill people. But they hate guns anyway. They blame the high death rate in Chitcago of black on black violence on guns just too fugging stupid to understand it's the people but they don't have balls to say you black guys can't behave while owning guns so you can't own them. Guns aren't the problem people are. I bought my 1 st rifle at 11 years old in a hdwe store (pre 1968) guy that sold it to me said "Did you talk this over with your dad? " I said yup paid the 10 dollars and 30 cents tax and walked with my new used 22. Bought a Ruger single six at 14 the lawyer who sold it to me said bring it back if it makes your dad mad. My dad was more concerned that whatever I bought was good quality. Today is different we have too many liberal retards in public office and they hate everything they can't control or blame their failures on the other view point. I would be [bleep] careful who I sold a gun to these days certainly no one under 21 because of the laws they will use against you if that firearm is used in the commission of a crime. If you did a 4473 on the gun when you bought it , it's looking smarter to me all the time to trade it back to a dealer and get the bill of sale from him or other documentation proving you moved it in the approved way. Bitme and crew want to end private party transfers, I think a guy really needs to cover his ass these days because I don't trust the commies in power. They hate the constitution specifically the second amendment. Be smart CYA

Only if they're not white.

I'd bet that there is a attorney out there who would argue that a person selling a deadly weapon is responsible for exercising due diligence to insure that he/she isn't selling that deadly weapon to a person who is legally prohibited from owning it. I wouldn't sell a firearm to a person who couldn't legally go to a dealer and purchase the same firearm, but what you do is your business, not mine..

Caribou, please ignore this.

I actually DO ask if a person is 21 if I am in doubt. I also ask if a person is legally allowed to own a gun before I sell one to them. That way if something happens, it would be exceedingly difficult for a prosecutor to come back on me, since I actually asked and the questions were answered.

Mac, I agree, in my classifieds I typically say they "must be at least 21 YO, and a resident of Idaho. I prefer to see a concealed carry ID, but an Idaho Drivers license will suffice. NO FELONS." That way not only do I hopefully scare away anyone illegal to buy, there's evidence I made a good faith effort. With the ATF description of 18 from a non FFL has caught me off guard. I suppose someone can also comeback with my gun my rules. Lot's of this stuff is a call at the moment.

Federal law require that the purchaser be at least 21. Federal laws do not apply to an individual private sale of a used firearm. That falls under the jurisdiction of state law which is why you don’t have to go through an FFL. Most states set the minimum age for handgun purchase at 18 but a few set the minimum age at 21.

So new purchase and federal FFL laws apply. Used sale between private citizens federal laws do not apply they have no jurisdiction and it’s left up to the individual state and usually 18 years old.

To me if someone is 18 years old in a state that requires they be at least 18 to purchase and I have no reason to believe that they are going to commit a criminal act that’s plenty good enough for me. Obviously if the person is right on the bubble age wise I’d want to take a glance at a drivers license to confirm that they weren’t underage but that’s where your responsibility and business starts and stops IMO.

If you take that attitude, and they go kill someone with it the next day, how do you think that's going to play out for you with the DA?

Anytime I'm dealing with a person who doesn't already own guns, before I hand them one, I go down the basic list of questions on the 4473 with them.

Are you a convicted felon, have you even been convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, are you in the country illegally, do you do drugs, have you ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, have you renounced your citizen ship....

Yes, I want to see how they react to the questions, but it's also part of educating new prospective gun owners to the complexity of laws surrounding gun ownership and the consequences for not following them.

Plus, there is always the issue of civil litigation that is totally separate from criminal litigation. O.J. Simpson won his criminal court case, but lost his subsequent civil litigation.

I've got news for yall.... If a DA or civil attorney want to string you up, asking, "Are you 21?" ain't gonna help you at all.

For that matter, even seeing that they have a carry license won't help you..... Was the license still valid? Had it been revoked due to domestic violence? Did you even check? Why didn't you just meet at an FFL and have him run a background check? And you're a gun guy, right? You know how background checks work and that your license to carry may be revoked and somebody could still have the actual hard copy of the license? But a background check would have caught that. If you would have cared. Look at how much pain and misery could have been avoided if you would have just cared.

Sincerely,
An actual survivor of a civil case who knows what he's talking about, written from the land of activist attorneys

Neither would I, but it’s not my job to find that out. If I don’t know they’re a felon that’s not on me.

Short of going to a dealer and doing a background you have no idea somebody’s legal standing or their age. Asking if someone is a felon isn’t due diligence LoL

Half the 19 year olds in this country have fake id’s that will fool you.

We already have way to many gun laws in this country I’m not going to go beyond them.

Do you confirm someone has a clean driving record before selling then a car?

When I was an FFL and a young man was looking at a handgun, I made my judgement within a minute usually. Did he? Clear the weapon when I handed it to him. Keep it pointed safely at all times. Ask if it was ok to dry fire. Maybe not fair, but it beat the schidt out of yes or no questions on a yellow piece of paper.

Welcome,

It is readily apparent that your contributions will certainly be an asset to this forum.

He ain’t wrong.

My home state requires that you not knowingly sell to a prohibited person. I think that we can all agree on that. As Hypocrite stated. There are already to many unconstitutional gun laws on the books and he isn’t the FBI or the ATF. His responsibility morally and legally starts and stops with not intentionally selling to someone under 18 (in most states) I’d definitely check ID of someone on the bubble age wise. Not selling to a known prohibited user, or to someone obviously under the influence, that has severe mental problems, or someone making threats.

This post must be from Kalifornistan

That's the rule, even in NY. I sold a Ruger Mark I several years ago to a guy under 21. He told me he couldn't buy from a dealer until he was 21 so I checked and that was the deal.

I simply don't sell or even hand a gun to anyone I don't personally know is-

A. Able to legally possess a firearm, and
B. Not a fugking moron.

This limits me to close acquaintances I know and trust. Otherwise, guns from the barter pile go to an FFL in trade, etc. Yes, this costs me a little money. I chalk it up to peace of mind.

.Blue has given you the worst case. As an old flatfoot who has traced--and by 'traced' I mean leg work and interviewing people--a dozen or two guns used in homicides, I can tell you that you don't want to be in that lineup.

It’s unusual that someone under 21 would have a pistol permit in NYS. Most counties won’t issue them unless someone is 21. They rationalize that policy by saying federal law doesn’t allow persons under 21 to buy pistols. I’ve only ever seen one exception.

This is sadly true^^^^^^^
How in the hell did we get to this point in this country? The seller shouldn't be in trouble for what the purchaser does with his purchase. Somehow that is exactly where we are

It's all about assigning evil to an inanimate object.

If you sold your old farm pickup to a loser who rammed it into a toll booth, nobody would give two shets about it.

Sell a pistol to some nimrod, who shoots his own pecker off in a Walmart restroom, and you're the reincarnation of John Wilkes Booth.

When I was a kid you could order genuine USGI 1917s and 1911s 45 via USPS. It wasn't until a wannabe Russian defector, supposedly shot a president, that anybody seriously suggested it was a problem.

I’ve only sold pistols to individuals I knew personally. Otherwise I’m going through an FFL. For all the reasons stated in prior posts.

A lot of this angst could be alleviated by following my policy: I only buy guns I intend to keep. If I get rid of one, it’s only because a brother, son, nephew or very close friend wants it more than I do.

I live in Delaware County. They practically pass them out with the birth certificates here.

suggestion.

Delaware is certainly one of the better downstate counties to live in. I lived there for a while years ago, Sidney Center... actually went over to Delhi and got a pistol permit application, but before I could get the process done, girl I was living with decided she didn't much care about somebody who was out all night with his coohnounds...shortly after that, moved back up where I belong, St. Lawrence County. Twenty years later, went back down and worked in Delaware County for a couple of years. It's a beautiful area, just too close to NYC.

anymore i won't sell any gun to a non family member without an FFL transfer. i know a guy who sold an ak to a POS who killed two cops with it. he was an FFL and his life was run through the ringer.

I’ve sold a couple handguns for an elderly friend recently. I required an FFL transfer.
In my view, there’s a “potential” huge downside risk to do otherwise.

I sell one every once in a while, I follow the federal laws and the laws of the state I am in. That's it game over, thats all thats required. Don't make it any more complex than it is.

In MI, they either have to have a CPL or a pistol purchase permit issued by their local PD.

I bought my first gun, a S&W .38, from an ad in Outdoor Life. It was shipped Railroad Express. I rode my bike downtown to pick it up. Fifteen at the time. No questions asked by anyone. Of course that was back in 1960.

Folks get wound up about the strangest things.

I don't ask for ID, I don't require a bill of sale, I don't care. If they look 18, and have given me no reason to believe they are prohibited, the sale is on. Done.

I've walked away from a couple of deals because the other party wanted to see my ID, or wanted me to sign some piece of paper.

probably because you turned into fat and lazy suburbanites. The folks who wrote constitutions werent stuffing burgers down their yap and flicking football channels all day. The US legal and liability system in particular is off the rails. You guys now have 4-5x the incarceration rate of other 1st world countries, where as 30-40 years ago you were more or less on par with them. 1 in 5 people in prison on Earth are Americans now.

I agree. Sad but true. Before it's over people will be allowed to blame the manufacturer's. They still occasionally go after the sellers already.

Here where I live I wouldn't think of selling a handgun to anybody, no matter their age, without adhering to the draconian handgun laws we live under. That goes especially in terms of selling to a minor. I don't wish to be stripped of the gun hobby I hold so near and dear and won't jeopardize that, no matter how much I disagree with the laws and see no problem transferring a pistol to a mature teenager.

The stuff that interests me is easily acquired by myself via my C&R license, I have zero interest in the latest greatest Wonder Guns. What's weird is that with our laws it's bloody difficult to legally transfer those guns locally if I ever want to divest myself of them so I'm stuck with them - which is ok because I don't want to.

YES

But why in the world would you want to sell your handgun?

Where I live we have a small local trade paper that advertises lots of firearms. The problem is that criminals and druggies come here from Detroit, Columbus, New York City, Washington D.C., etc. to buy those guns so they can resell them in their cities, mostly for illegal activity. They come here because they have relatives living here who keep them posted on what firearms, especially handguns are listed for sale. Another way to get around that problem is that their relatives buy because they are local and then resell to the out of state perps.

I have bought many firearms from this local site but I haven't sold a firearm (a Rem. 760) on it for well over 30 years. My rule of thumb would be if they look like trouble they probably are trouble. I'm getting old and I need to develop a plan for selling most of my firearms but I will not sell a handgun or shotgun to someone whom I don't know.

Colorado law follows this 👆

Half the responses on here are a Democrat’s wet dream. Knocking yourselves over to willingly pass the “gun show loophole”.