Before the .44 mag, the was the Special. Most know that, but before that, there was the Russian.

Without going into a bunch of details that anyone can read on the errornet, the Russian is a fantastic way to make .44 Mags into very fun target/plinking guns. It is about like sticking a 230 grain .45 ACP into the cylinder. Very close ballistics wise, to the point that only nit pickers would bother to start in with the "Well akshully" BS.

A side by side of some 230 grain round nose 45 ACPs and 240 grain round nose 44 Russians:





Compared to Special and Magnum:

Just a little on the accurate side too:

These were shot over my hood, not exactly a bench rest....

25 yards.





The Russian makes a for killer little full wadcutter loads.





For punching paper of for in the home, or for small/medium game.

A great way to make a Model 29 even more versatile.

Nice. I've got some factory Russian laying around. What dies do you use?

Nice write up, MS!

Looks like too much fun.

LEE factory dies with a roll crimp

44 Mag or...?

I've got both 44 Mag and Special dies. I don't recall having any Russian ones though. Supposedly you can't find dies for anything right now and if you can they're mucho high dollar. The fact that most guys use 44 Specials to load Magnums would lead one to believe you'd need Russians to load them and you could load Specials with the Russian dies, but I dunno. Never have reloaded any Russians and have shot precious few of them. 100 or 200 rounds in my ammo stock, IIRC.

Cool. How much does poi shift between magnums and the little Russians?

That is entirely dependent on the load, but I shot a couple quick groups at 50 yards and they were just above the sheet of typing paper, where normally they are in the middle, so I'd say about 4" high for that case, but I was shooting over the hood of my Land Cruiser. Not exactly formal bench testing. Really its going to depend more on bullet weight.

Very fun little loads, and quite practical in application really.

I have a couple people that have asked me to load for them, so I am going to load up about 500 rds for each of them.



This time I am going to hold some back for myself, which didn't happen last time I made a bunch of .45s. It was a very accurate .45 load and I ended up getting talked out of my stash, then could not get any more new brass!

I have plenty of ACP brass though.

Cool.

Good looking crimp on those rounds, too. Any tips?

Yep,


The LEE roll crimp is your friend. Especially if you intend to shoot at any sort of extended range. I have not fiddled with these loads, but have put literally thousands of .44 mags downrange and the roll crimp allows the pressure to build a little more evenly in the case. The result is better accuracy at longer ranges. You might not notice it at 25 yards, but at 250 yards you certainly can.

Plus if you are shooting truly heavy loads, you greatly lessen the risk of bullets pulling out with recoil and jamming up the gun.

These .44 Russians also make a Model 329 Scandium Smith truly fun to shoot, which "FUN" and "Model 329 Scandium S&W" are rarely used in the same sentence.

What advantage does this hold vs. lite loads in 44 magnum brass? Seems like you would just be fouling the chamber in front of the shorter case, They are neat looking though- especially the wadcutters.

Kind of the same idea I have for a 45 colt S&W I have coming. I will be trying some of the 45 special brass in it. Should load up similar to a 45acp load, I think.
Still working out how to properly load these.
Les

What a great Idea.

Thanks for posting.

Nice, especially that wadcutter!

I had worked up a load a while back in the Russian case too. I ended up with 5.0gr Unique under a cast 250gr SWC, velocity was about 830 fps, right in there with the old ball 45ACP.



Some Russian rounds alongside some 44 Mag loads.



I was halfway expecting accuracy to suffer from the longer jump, but that was not an issue. I don't seem to have any target pics onhand to share though.

I wasn't too sure in the 44Mag dies would work with flaring/crimping the shorter case, and I just bought a dedicated set of Lee 44 Russian dies.

I may get a set of 44 Russian dies when things settle down. I was just looking at a box of 100 44 Russians in the basement.

I hear that a lot. However in decades of shooting revolvers I have never had issues when shooting .38s in .357s, and the Russians have been no different. I also tend to load/shoot a little more than the average bear. I haven't stopped to count, but I think I loaded about 50K rounds last month of various cartridges. Bearing in mind most of that was not personal use, but for other purposes, but I still tend to shoot a little since I am in the biz.




I know I went through a number of these 5 pound jugs in January..






Anyways, the point is that the whole "that's is going to badly foul and build up pressure" is more internet legend than based in actual fact.

I scrub out my cylinders when the gun gets dirty. Usually the tight barrel to cylinder gaps binding are an issue along with the gun just being plain dirty from excessive shooting more so than anything else.

I am a huge .44 Mag fan and the point of shooting Russians is not necessarily to have any advantage. That said, with the Magnum, when you have excessive room in the cartridge case that is not occupied by powder, due to lighter charges, you get positional issues. The lighter charges result in inconsistent velocities. That is why I rarely go lighter than 8.5 grains of Unique, and even then I have found that a slightly heavier charge is a little more accurate in spite of it having a bit more recoil. It is a trade off though,

Aside from the shorter cartridge case for more consistent powder burn for target shooting, the other advantage is if you need to do any sort of quick reloads. The shorter Russians, with their stubby cartridge cases fall free from the cylinder very easily, whereas the Magnums often tend to hang up. That is one of the reasons .45 Colt shooters like the .45 Cowboy cartridge, which is a .45 Colt cartridge cut to .45 ACP. Pretty close to the same concept.

Frankly it really is about fun more than anything else. The are practical, low recoil and they are fun.

I hear that a lot. However in decades of shooting revolvers I have never had issues when shooting .38s in .357s, and the Russians have been no different. I also tend to load/shoot a little more than the average bear. I haven't stopped to count, but I think I loaded about 50K rounds last month of various cartridges. Bearing in mind most of that was not personal use, but for other purposes, but I still tend to shoot a little since I am in the biz.




I know I went through a number of these 5 pound jugs in January..






Anyways, the point is that the whole "that's is going to badly foul and build up pressure" is more internet legend than based in actual fact.

I scrub out my cylinders when the gun gets dirty. Usually the tight barrel to cylinder gaps binding are an issue along with the gun just being plain dirty from excessive shooting more so than anything else.

I am a huge .44 Mag fan and the point of shooting Russians is not necessarily to have any advantage. That said, with the Magnum, when you have excessive room in the cartridge case that is not occupied by powder, due to lighter charges, you get positional issues. The lighter charges result in inconsistent velocities. That is why I rarely go lighter than 8.5 grains of Unique, and even then I have found that a slightly heavier charge is a little more accurate in spite of it having a bit more recoil. It is a trade off though,

Aside from the shorter cartridge case for more consistent powder burn for target shooting, the other advantage is if you need to do any sort of quick reloads. The shorter Russians, with their stubby cartridge cases fall free from the cylinder very easily, whereas the Magnums often tend to hang up. That is one of the reasons .45 Colt shooters like the .45 Cowboy cartridge, which is a .45 Colt cartridge cut to .45 ACP. Pretty close to the same concept.

Frankly it really is about fun more than anything else. The are practical, low recoil and they are fun.







That has to be amazingly easy to shoot out of that Bisley!

You do need to publish some articles.

That's what Mas Ayoob suggested a few years ago about hunting!

That's what Mas Ayoob suggested a few years ago about hunting!

Tag

Yes, it's real comfy. It kind of got me interested in getting one of those Ruger GP100 44 Special 3" DA revolvers. I figured the Russian would probably play well in any 44 Spl also. Never quite got to pulling the trigger on the GP100 though.

Kind of a related question here. Can I load my 45 Special cases with 45 Colt dies or 45 acp dies? Or would I need something completely different? Also, what about crimping? What would be the best way to go about getting a good consistent crimp?

Have not been loading much handgun ammo for a few years but still have been loading my rifle ammunition. So a little out of practice.
Thanks, Les

I load and shoot .44 Russians all the time as well as .44 Specials in my .44 Magnum chambered 4.25" S&W M-69. I have not experienced any excessive chamber fouling as some claim. Also shoot a LOT of .38s in my .357 also without any excessive fouling. Having said that, I also clean them on a regular basis. I load the same bullet for my Russian and Special loads and most of my Magnum loads: a 240 grain coated cast lead Keith style SWC. Please note that these Russian loads ARE NOT intended to be used in an antique or reproduction 1800s era .44 Russian pistol. I have three Russian loads all using a coated cast lead 240 gr Keith style SWC bullet:

.44 Russian - 4.2 gr Titegroup - WLP -744 FPS

.44 Russian +P - 5.2 gr Universal - WLP - 787 FPS

.44 Russian +P+ - 6.1 gr Universal - Rem LP - 849 FPS

Lee makes dies to load .44 Russian. While the sizing die is the same for the Special and Magnum, the other will not work as the case is too short. I just ordered a set of proper Lee .44 Russian dies and use my same Lee factory crimp die. BTW - you can order direct from Lee, but they are a bit more expensive than what you can usually find them for from Grafs, Midsouth, Midway, e-bay, etc.

You can also load the .44 Russian with black powder, but I have never done so. After all, that is what it was originally loaded with. I don't recall the black powder load formula, but it can be found on John Taffin's website. Remember, black powder residue requires extra care with cleaning.

Should really look into trailboss powder. Will put your right around 800 to 900 fps depending on charge with a 240 cast. No short case in the cylinder. Full case of powder. Can use less expensive and typically more readily available brass. I have become a big fan of Trailboss in a wide range of cartridges.

Tip on anything LEE. Try Titan Reloading. They are basically the unofficial LEE factory store. Located just a couple miles from LEE. Better prices than LEE and typically stock more than LEE. Good people to work with.

There isn’t much more satisfying than shooting 44’s at sedate velocities out of a long barrel. Almost suppressed compared to a full house load.

With this reveelun revulashun antone wunder as to this? The diffrance betwane the 44 Speecial case and the 44 Rushing case is .190 thousunds anch. Is this nuff diffrance to make any worthile diffrance in the purformunce betwixt thee two?
Iffin there be diffrance enuff with bothen loaded to the same vlosity antone could see the nassisity to purchase them oddballed cases. Buut cudden most shooten well enuff to jistify other than to be diffrancer to emppress thur feller internetters und feller shooters?
Antone know?

I've never used Russian brass but I have loaded Specials way load in order to get close to the same.

I often tell guys that are looking for .44 Special Flattop's to find the ACP version instead. You can buy gobs of the factory stuff for cheap (typically).

Fun stuff! Thanks for the write-up!

Interesting.
Only played w .44 specials yrs ago in a SBH.

I have a .45 acp so just run mags in my .44s.
Full throttle.

If I had a bunch of TrailBoss I might have gone in that direction, but like most powders it is not available in large quantities and I have less than 2 pounds. I am loading some 44 Russians for some people in quantity, and that is where the Titegroup comes in, as I have more of it on hand. I have a couple thousand rounds of 240 grain round nose Russian load already promised to some guys. Once guys shoot a box or two, they want more. Then their friends start texting! Kind of like Crack!

Fun stuff and MUCH easier on the wrists than full bore mag loads. You can shoot a 329 Scandium and enjoy it, and shoot a couple boxes through a Model 29 and not have your wrists sore the next day. I had carpal tunnel surgery last year and my surgeon said my wrists were pretty trashed. No big surprise there.

I hear you on using what you got. I was smart or lucky a couple years ago and figured it was a good idea to lay in 10 pounds of trailboss.

I have never done the Russian (kick my azz for selling my USFA Flattop Target...) but Tightgroup just works in many manner of rounds (32 H&R to 500L) and given what I have read (Pierce) is not susceptible with issues as to where the powder sits in the case.

At least it is moving in the right direction, going down in power to try to come up high enough to begin to approach the powerful 9MM.
If one could trim the 44 Russin cases to .650 inches it would be even better.
Now there is a thought.

Back in the 80's I had two cherry Colt New Service's, a .38-40 and a .44 Special. Please feel free to kick my ass for not still owning them. The .38-40 was my "magnum" and digested many piles of hotly loaded ammunition, and suffered zero defects from it. The .44 was a pussycat though because my old mentor gifted me a train car load of truly ancient .44 Russian brass and a couple Ideal moulds. God, what fun that gun was, for all the reasons MS outlined so far. I honestly don't remember ever actually loading any .44 Specials, it was all Russians. (The .38-40, the way I loaded for it, was another wrist-breaking story though. I'll never forget the look on a smartass's face when he shot it after he denigrated it over the magnum-something he was shooting next to me.)

All the guys who bought a 329 and shot it only to realize what an unpleasant thing it can be, ought to be shooting Russians in it.

S&W should sell Scandium .44 Mags with Russian ammo. It makes the gun actually fun to shoot.

Well, from what I can tell you live in Elmer Keith country, you like to shoot Elmer-type guns, and you're a good storyteller, so why not?

Since there are so many smart people on here could anyone that have those smarts tell me this? What can be accomplished with 44 Russian cases that can't be accomplished with 44 Special? Or does the proponent/proponents just like the WOW/AWESOME of showing some goober a 44 Russian case?
Evidentally there isnt anyone that knows.

This is just flippin awesome

I bet a lot of UL scandium guns will get rabbit and squirrel duty from this!

Yeah the next time I go out on Jack Rabbit Safari, I will have to try these out. I have not tried any six round drills on paper yet, but I am betting these will track pretty easy. Going to load up some SWCs here pretty soon.

About those full wadcutters....


I ran out and popped a few rounds this afternoon.



This target was shot at 20 yards instead of 25 just because that was where the sagebrush, my hood and everything lined up. I got a few minutes to run out and pop a few rounds out of my lever action as well as my 5" 29 Classic, and the results made me grin to say the least.

I was shooting over a bag, over the top of my hood, and apparently that was good enough! The target was slightly tilted, so the holes are a bit angled, but the little 180 wadcutters in the Russian cartridge cases are a real winner!



I then fired the last three I had with me into the big diamond target:




I only have a few hundred of these specific 180 wadcutters, as well as a few hundred of another brand, but know of another outfit that makes 200 grain full wadcutters, so I may look into purchasing some of theirs and see how they do. For now I will definitely be loading up the rest of what I have on hand.

I also fired 6 of the little cone head looking loads. It seems that The Russian really likes the Titegroup powder and the little bullets.



Those wadcutters though! OOF!

Nice! ^^^

What can the 44 Russian cases do that 44 Special cases cannot do? That should be the real subject. Or are they used just for the "WOW" factor to the easily impressed?

Or you can down load the 44 mag with 44 mag cases, cast bullets, and a few grains of bullseye or traiboss. Same difference.

Doofus,


You have made it your mission to crap in each persons thread and do nothing but annoy people with your total horsecrap. Literally hundreds of posts crapping in what were otherwise pleasant threads. You have acted like a total azzhole trying to annoy the hell out of anyone just to seek attention. Your behavior is that of an attention seeking butthurt troll.

Now you throw what is essentially a temper tantrum in large letters because nobody is paying any attention to you. Do you expect anybody to give you any sort of response after you behave the way you do? There are consequences for your actions. People are not responding because you have acted like a total douchenozzle for so long and people are just simply sick of your stupidity.

Here is a little clue. You are free to continue to do as you wish, but you are not free from the consequences of those actions.

Mackay:

Thank you for NOT quoting the Doofus -- it would spoil the "ignore" feature which makes the 'Fire more enjoyable for me.

John

Today, Saturday 19 February 2021, at 9:00 AM CDT, the starlinebrass dot com website shows .44 Russian brass available, .44 Special brass on backorder, and .44 Magnum out of stock / no backorders. My guess is that loading .45 ACP hardball equivalent rounds for use in a .44 Special or .44 Magnum revolver will use 1.5 to 4 less grains of powder if those rounds are loaded into .44 Russian brass rather than into .44 Special or .44 Magnum brass. In the current moment, in a batch of 500 or more rounds, that savings translates into not only lower monetary cost, but also into more shooting, assuming that one has an adequate supply of presently scarce and very expensive powder, primers, bullets, and brass. Some reloaders just want to explore (safely, please!) the possibilities of our hobby. So a big "Thank You!" to to Mackay Sagebrush for not only exploring some reloading possibilities, but also for clearly illustrating and precisely explaining what he has done and and how he did it.

I’ve got the original version of the pointy bullet mold. It’s a fun one, lots of stumps with holes all the way through. Shot most of them out of a 44 special.

.
Yep, I just ordered 1,000 44 Russian brass from Starline @ .20 cents each. Also got some of them pointy bullets at 190 grains, and 200 grain wadcutters (like Mckay above) on their way from Western Bullet. The Lee dies get here tomorrow. I been shooting .45 Cowboy loads for years and this should make my 44s fun to shoot also.

Man, that is just great stuff all the way around! I love it when a guy does something a bit unconventional and it not only works well, but opens up a new dimension of shooting for a particular platform! Thanks for posting, Mackay.

Thank you for the kind words 22!

A couple people hit me up to stock up their shelves for "grouse loads" as one guy called them and such, so I went ahead and ordered another 1,000 rds of Starline brass! I bet the ladies in the office are wondering why in the world .44 Russian is all of the sudden becoming such a good seller, lol. Dang Campfire shooters.

Good Times!

Makes me want a .44!

Life is too short, GET ONE!

Then take it someplace Wild!

Okay, but don't complain when I take your advice and come out for a visit! LOL


Frog---OUT!

Good thread. Reminds me of an old article I read probably in the late 70’s. Maybe early 80’s. It seems like Shooting Times, Skeeter Skelton. All about loads with older non-mag rounds with cast bullets. I distinctly recall the Russian and 44-40 being included.

Once I had a M29 4” in college. The fireball from the muzzle and cylinder gap using full Keith loads at dusk was quite the experience 🙄

Later I enjoyed shooting 10.5 Unique under a 240 SWC. Even took a deer with it.

Part two of this thread might be the .41 Special 😁

I can imagine those wrists - probably seen thousands upon thousands of full throttle loads.

Enjoyed the posts.

No Worries!

the 41 special is kind of special. the shorter casing allows better usage in some of those short cylinder guns.
and you can still run about 1000fps with a lead pill.

Yep,


While I have put untold thousands of rounds of .44 mag through my various .44s, my wrists, between being broken numerous times from riding broncs for my college on the college rodeo circuit and then again during my initial LE days before it became a no-no to pound people into submission, just don't like the full power loads. My surgeon about a year and a half ago when he worked on my wrist for carpal tunnel said both were a mess.

The Russians, with their short case are very efficient with their use of powder. You get excellent accuracy and use very little powder. Kind of analogous to using a 6.5 BR to shoot little tiny groups at 100 yards instead of a .264 Win Mag. The Russian cases are very easy to distinguish from the Magnum cases in terms of length. While I have played with all three case lengths, as is obvious by the first post, when I pictured a Russian, a Special and a Mag, all next to each other, I find the Russian tailor made for the target loads I initially described.



The fact is that I do significantly more target shooting and small game hunting, than I do large animal hunting, so the Russian loads like the round nose lead for practicing fast reloads, bouncing tin cans, and general shooting are great. The wadcutters make outstanding little small game loads. Either would be a fine to leave with the wife unit if she needed a gun and one of her .38s was not readily available. The fact is that Wadcutters fly straight and go deep, with excellent penetration, even when they start out at modest velocities. I would not hesitate to carry a .44 full of wadcutters. The low recoil also makes it very advantageous in terms of manipulation.

The funny part is that WAAAAY back in the day, in early 1900s the .44 Russian was actually a very popular cartridge when chambered in the Smith & Wesson #3 revolver. Many (not all) were using the Himmelwright wadcutter shown here:




Some used standard round nose lead, but the Himmelwright design from 1900 essentially led the way to what we use today in terms of the modern wadcutter. There is a bullet caster and very knowledgeable gentleman by the name of Glenn Frxxell who has a lot of great articles on cast bullets, marlin rifles, etc that are online. That Himmelwright WC pic is from one of his articles BTW.

Anyways, just more food for thought this fine morning!

And a pic from the porch of the cabin from a couple of guys who think 5" N Frame .44s are the Goldilocks of Big Bore handguns!

How do these compare to the 45 Auto? Can one get 850 fps with 230 grain bullet? These would be the cats meow. I'll bet that nothing else could come close to this discovery.
Thank you for being so kind as to bring this to our attention.

I can just load these in my new model Super Blackhawk and start shooting?

Deep seating is another way of reducing case capacity. Seating below the front bearing surface and crimp just enough to straighten the case

Yes.

Same dynamic as shooting 38Spl in a 357 Mag, or shooting 32 S&W Long in a 327 Mag.

DYNAMIC

Dynamic adjective
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dy·​nam·​ic | \ dī-ˈna-mik
\
Definition of dynamic

(Entry 1 of 2)
1a : marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change a dynamic city
b : energetic, forceful a dynamic personality
2 or less commonly dynamical \ dī-​ˈna-​mi-​kəl
\ a : of or relating to physical force or energy
b : of or relating to dynamics (see dynamics entry 1)
3 of random-access memory : requiring periodic refreshment of charge in order to retain data

dynamic noun
plural dynamics

Definition of dynamic (Entry 2 of 2)
: a force or factor that controls or influences a process of growth, change, interaction, or activity : a dynamic force or factor a social/cultural/interpersonal dynamic … describes a world order that seems to be evolving from ideology as the principal dynamic …— Woody West Denial has always been the most devastating social and political dynamic of the AIDS epidemic …— June E. Osborn Still, one wonders, Is there a way to achieve … results without some of the extraneous nastiness, the relentless controlling dynamic?— Jack McCallum — see also dynamics entry 1

Yep,

As Montana Marine pointed out, It is pretty much the same as sticking a .38 Special in a .357 chambered revolver.

They work great. Just plain fun to shoot.

I think I recognize that cabin......LOL

Funny you mention "Body Parts" that can't take the pounding of the heavy recoilers anymore.....regrettfully, I have discovered that I can no longer use certain grips on my S&W revolvers, especially my brace of S&W Mountain Guns in both .44 Mag & .45 Colt. The recoil of the frame where it meets the web between my Thumb and Forefinger, can cause sever pain, lasting for days, with even moderate loads of say 9.6 grains of Unique behind a SWC. Thankfully, Hogue, makes the X Frame grip which tames the recoil impulse enough and has a broader cushion, that I can use them again!

That leaves me with several Kim Arhends grips that I should probably sell! LOL


Frog---OUT!

The old Pachmayr grips are not bad for recoil comfort and look pretty decent on an older stainless N Frame.

MS, exceptional write up! Who would have thought the 329 could be pleasant to shoot!! It's all about putting the right load in the right case & you did it with fine accuracy. A pound of powder will go a long way & those wadcutters can be both accurate & nasty at the same time. Great job buddy!

Dick

Those camo Pachys look good on any color Smith 44

That is the way I carry my revolvers, Cocked and Locked. It has helped my quickdraw tremendously. When you carry your 44 Mag cocked and locked you will be hoot at the range with the fellow clod kickers. They say "Look out here comes greased lightning."

Great write up, thanks for sharing!

Well gee.... last week I didn’t know I wanted a .44SPL, it will be here mid week. This week, I didn’t know I wanted to shoot .44 Russian through it.... 1000 brass will be here next week.

Looks like fun.

~Nathan

Starline ought to be paying a commission on .44 Russian sales!

They could pay in brass!


It is not like I am not already buying a little bit of the stuff ..

UPS guy probably groans when he see my address..

That’s a lot of flippin brass!

Has any of the ILLUMINATED ILLUMINATI figured out what 44 Russian cases

will do that 44 Special cases won't do.

That is what inquiring minds want to know.

The question is presented to the "GREAT ONES" among us that leads the way for us pitiful ones that has no knowledge of these things.

I am exactly the same with the web of my hand. I went the direction of shooting mostly SA revolvers for big bores and there is no pain at all.

I may give some camo Pachnyrs a try though. It's been one of those things on "the list"

It's nice to know that brass is available for something. So tired of seeing either "backordered" or "unavailable" on product pages...

I ordered enough 1X fired magnum cases from the classifieds to keep me busy for a while, and have a few bullets loaded and more due here in about 4-6 weeks. But this is a great thread and I'd love to try it sometime...

Gotta tell us about your .44 special. It's a rule...

Pics???

Epic bitch slap sir A+++ There are a handful of posters here I just never read. I've had the same signature line for over 10 years now. I've gotten back into bullet casting and tried out powder coating recently. Been spending time on the cast bullet forum again too. I have noticed zero toxic trolls over there... a welcome change.

I love micro red dots on revolvers but have not found a good solution for holsters that protect the red dot. I destroyed a Vortex last week when it fell out of a nylon holster.... I have a Hill People gear chest pack that works along with a few other bag type systems but would like a better solution something that protects the red dot while it is securely holstered. Suggestions for a Model 69 4.25" gun?

John,

I picked up one of the Jeff Quinn Special edition Ruger GP-100’s, polished blue, SS trigger and Hammer, 5 shot unfluted cylinder, 4.2” half lug barrel, with wood grips (with Johns likeness and signature etched in).

I was a fan of his writings and reviews, always enjoyed seeing him or his brother Bogie post on various forums as well.

I’ve got Dies, brass and bullets in route, luckily I have primers and powder on hand.

Just need the range to dry off to get some shooting in.

Thanks for the Kudos,

In regards to the holster, call the Milt Sparks shop. Ask for Jim and see if they will build you one of their new Optics ready OWB rigs for the gun. That's the first thing that comes to mind.

I don't know if it is on the website yet. Here is a pic of a prototype holster:




The cast bullet forum is a good site. Lots of smart guys over there.

Thanks I'll give them a call. What I'm looking for would cover the red dot too. The replacement cost on the Vortex Venom has jumped up to 280.00 I ordered one of the new Holosun H5507C instead. I like the Holosun better with the dual dot system and ability to turn the intensity of the light down lower so it does not wash out a target in lower light. I can't get this one to adjust elevation low enough though. I may need to return it.

Do the Vortex Red Dots not carry the lifetime warranty?

Mack that sob needs his ass handed to him . thank you for all the good info you post here

Good question. It was mounted on a 4" N frame Smith and fell from waist height onto a hardwood floor. The lens is fractured and the metal "window" has a major bend in it. I'm planning to take the Model 69 into the gunsmith for an action job tomorrow. I'll ask him.

I had a first generation Burris red dot that I didn't much care for but the newer mini red dots are pretty amazing. I turned 65 this year. My wife is a shooter too but she (and her eye sight) are 9 years younger than I am. She has been kicking my butt shooting iron sight hand guns for the last several years now. The red dots have given the edge back to me.... not that I'm gloating about that or anything because that would be wrong.....

I’m a staff shooter for our local Vortex dealer, he assured me that your Venom does have the full warranty. Yet cover pretty much anything, and have been trying to keep items in stock to cover warranty claims, but with their current backlog (I just received two scopes I ordered in August of 2020), they might not have a quick turn around.

Really? Cool thank you! For anyone that hasn't tried a good quality micro red dot you really don't know what you are missing (or maybe not hitting when you could have especially if your eyes are getting older and not seeing the front sight like you used to). I'm surprised holsters designed to protect the new sights are not commonly available.

We have a 4" square steel target in the back yard. From a seated hunting position with a light weight set of shooting sticks I have been able to hit it 10 out of 10 times on a fairly regular basis.... my wife's best score is 8 out of 10. I'm kind of pretending that I'm not really keeping track.

I grew up in a shotgun only for deer hunting area. When I turned 21 and could get a pistol permit all my deer hunting was with hand guns. I moved to NC 30 years ago and went on a serious high power rifle binge but now that I'm not moving up and down the hills like I used to I'll be taking some deer with handguns again.

My wife is an extremely determined person and while we are being polite and not talking about the score thing I'm pretty sure she will be matching the 10 for 10 thing soon and maybe taking a few handgun deer herself next Fall.

The inquiring minds of greatness would like to know what the 44 Russian cases will do that the 44 Special cases wont do.
Is there an answer or is there not an answer? Deflection of an answer using me is a good indicator that the people asked dont know. Deflection to how stupid and how low life I am is just a way to slither away from actually a good question even if it come from a lowlife like me. BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER.

Does the large font make you feel as if you’ve made a point somehow?

Doof,

The reduced capacity of the Russian runs more economically on powder than the Special. Also, being shorter, it ejects a bit sooner.

Of course you already know those things.

Also the smaller case is more consistent with reduced loads

.44 Special cases are not available for purchse new.

44 Russian is.


I believe this was stated in this thread.

Can you put that in all caps or a larger font to help him out?

He is not worth a response guys.

It is his mission in life to disrupt, and schit in people threads, so just ignore him. His putting words in bold only indicate he is pouting about the fact that nobody will bother to respond to his tantrums/trying to interrupt. Pathetic.

He even sent a PM throwing a hissy fit, which of course I did not respond.


Like 2nd wind said, please don't feed the trolls.

Hahaha hahaha.
You received one as well?

Apparently you're paying some of us to pick on him.............
BTW, you're late on payment!

Yeah...

Back to our regular scheduled program...

Mac,

Do those cycle in a Marlin 1894? I'm thinking those wad cutters out of a carbine would be fight stoppers.

Question, could you load 44 special using 44 Russian and a ring spacer , same as 38/357 ?

I have absolutely NO doubt that they would knock the starch out of a bad guy. Wadcutters have an excellent record for straight and deep penetration, and when you are already starting out with a larger diameter projectile, it is hard not to like it. The meplat is .420. Hard to ignore. Reference your Marlin question, in my unmodified 1894 Marlin both the WCs and RNLs have feeding issues. As I have been informed there are kits that you can get to modify your rifles that will remedy this. They are primarily aimed towards the CAS crowd.

Curious, brass supply issues with the Magnum and Specials or still readily available?

I personally have never bothered with the spacers/shims. That said, if you really wanted, just set your Russian dies up to size, bell, seat and crimp the little Ivans. Then put the spacer ring between the die and the press, you should all set for Specials.

The clarity is becoming clearer now. Thank you.

Yes there are supply issues.


The new Biden agenda calls for all new ammo sales to be conducted through an FFL and paperwork be filled out, just like they do in California. Same for buying components, gun parts, etc. Partly due to that and for the other various reasons, the industry is massively behind on product orders. I doubt there is going to be any relief this year. It is going to be a rough ride. If guys thought 2020 prices were high, and current prices are steep, just wait...

Anyways, short version is that yes new brass can be tough to easily obtain.

I have not cast bullets in several years. I always felt good about knowing the basics of how to do it. I thought I had a life time supply of WW ingots stashed that I smelted down 30 years ago.... "somewhere around here".... not finding them though. I did have a few boxes of them under the workbench.

I just recently made my first batch of powder coated bullets. It's cheap and easy to do plus the guys on the cast bullet forum have 35 pages of "Hey look how pretty my last batch of bullets turned out" pictures posted.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?251956-Powder-coated-bullets-pics-only

Apparently the only real "trick" to powder coating is picking powder that has proven to work well with lead. This vender has that sorted out and the cast bullet forum people love this guy.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252509-VS-Hi-Quality-Powdercoating-Powder-For-sale

Thanks , thought the old spacer trick would be the same . Russian dies available but no specials . Have to work with what you have nowadays.

Maine,

That is the great thing about being a handloader. Being able to find alternate solutions. More than once I have modified something to achieve my goals.

2ndwind.



Idaho1945 is THE guy when it comes to powder coating, cast bullets, etc. Same with handgun hunting for that matter. Here is a pic of a few of his PC bullets he has sent my way. They are simply Awesome!



The one in the middle is a 170 grain Keith and I load it warm in .38 cases. It is just the ticket for keeping in my old Model 15 Combat Masterpiece, that does house duty.



CHEERS!

Wouldnt the 170 Keith be the one 4th in from the left or the 2nd in from the right? The middle one is the 3rd in from either right or left. Am I not correct on that?
The middle one certainly can't be the Keith. Am I correct? Or am I incorrect? Concerned minds want to know.

Mack, the 2nd bullet from the right looks like Smokes flame red powder coat. I just made a batch of .452 200 HP for Valentines Day. Red is Jayne's favorite color . I may have messed up my shooters karma by telling her they "might help her shoot better". The thrill of being able to see the red dot well enough to pull back into the steel target shooting lead must have gone to head.

We have 2 friends that have shot with hunted with (and yes Dave I'm talking about you) tracked deer after dark through the thickest steepest wild rose infested parts of our property with us. My guess is that they would both place bets on my lovely and very determined bride being well into the steel shooting competition winner's circle well before next deer season gets here. We shoot heavy 255 and 280 grain bullets in auto rim and .45 Colt loads at modest velocity. 240 grain cast in our Model 69 maybe my current favorite. Any of these loads should shoot straight through any game on our property.

I still shoot full power magnums in a scoped Ruger Redhawk from time to time but moderate loads from compact big bore handguns topped with micro red dots is what we are currently having the most fun with.

For the 240's .429 or .430's please?

.430 works fine for me.

Yep also .430. Interesting side note I have had a box of SSK style 320 hard cast bullets on the shelf that are .429. and from a LONG time ago. IIRC J D Jones took an elephant using one of his custom Ruger revolvers and this bullet. It's been so long since I test fired some of these on pine logs that I don't remember for sure how much penetration I got but I'm thinking it was 12" +

I have recently taught a friend how to reload and cast bullets. The guys on cast bullets forum have argued for years about what kinds of toxic solvents would be needed to clean lubed bullets up well enough for powder coating to then stick. Dave didn't realize that it was a waste of time to do that kind of thing so he just boiled some cast 9 MM bullets I had given him and then powder coated them without trouble. I think he said they come out .002" fatter. I'll ask him to post some pictures

On my "to do " list is to give that a try with the 320s and then resize to .430 in flame red.... just incase of an unexpected arrival of escaped and angry elephants or really fat zombies.

While looking through Ken Waters I saw .429-.430 and .427 Find my self good to go with what I have in stock. Thanks! Powders in stock are Unique, Bullseye , HP -38
and W-231. Sure I'm missing some others that are suitable.

Bumping this up for someone who was inquiring.

Yep.
I use 6gr of Clays, (cause I have a lot of it), behind a .430" Brazos 240gr hitek-coated lswc (cheapest), in Starline 44mag brass, WLP, for 860fps from my 4" 329pd. 800'ish fps seems to be where the grandkids don't complain about recoil. I used to run them at 930fps but it was a touch too much for noobs.

Years back I got a 624 but couldn't find any brass. I drove 45 acp brass into a 44 mag die, all the way to the rim. Left just enough to chamber. 429421 over four grains of bullseye and I could at least shoot.

Since the .45 ACP is rimless, how did this work in a cylinder designed for rimmed cartridges? Please explain.

Just bought a .44 tracker my first 44 in about 23 years. Naturally I got the Pmc and Hornady 44 Special ammo,I may not be really smart but Special sounds better than Magnum in a 35oz .44.