Looking for input from those that have used cast WFN bullets to hunt large game. Is there a velocity at which they are more effective, wound more or Dispatch game quicker.

I've been casting the Lee 310g wfn 44 bullet lately. For years I carried the similar 310g laser cast bullet loaded at 1200 fps in my 329 pd while in the woods.
They penetrate very well but I'm getting to where I don't tolerate the recoil as well as I used to. I've been working on a reduced load that goes 1050 fps and is much more manageable. I have no doubt the bullet will penetrate well even at the lower speed but will the wound cavity be reduced much.

An old timer that used to hunt a lot with cast used to tell me that wfn and Keith type bullets wound better at 1200fps or above. He said that at lower speeds they just pencil through. I'm not sure if there is any truth to it especially with only 150 fps difference. I know my 1200 fps load does about 1500 fps from a rifle and definitely seems to hit things a lot harder exploding varmints etc.

I'm wondering if I'd be better off going down in bullet weight to a 240-260g wfn and running them around 1200 fps or just staying with the Lee 310g at 1050 fps. I know I'm not going to run lots of 310g bullets through the 329pd or mtn gun at 1200 fps anymore.

Bb

You may like these:

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/44-mag-lbt-280gr-wfn-gc/

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/44-mag-lbt-280gr-lfn-gc/

...or these:

https://www.lehighdefense.com/429-c...d-free-target-handgun-rifle-bullets.html

My experience is limited, but I can tell you a 255gr WFN at 1050 from a .44 special is plenty decisive on deer......at any angle.

I don’t have tons of WFN experience, the .44 250WFN from LBT is the only one I’ve loaded. But a friend of mine who owned several LBT WFN and LFN molds always said the WFN didn’t shoot well unless pushed hard.

Crap, great timing on this thread, i have a 15 twist 6" octagon barreled 500 Linebaugh on the way, was figuring on 1100 fps with someones version of a 0.512" dia. 450gr Keith bullet with a 0.400" meplat, and a big 0.513" dia.530gr LBT WFNGC with 0.410" meplat at 1000 fps, may have to lean on both a little more for good accuracy and straight line penetration.

Burley,


I can tell you that I have shot a fair bit of stuff with hardcast .44s that were 300, 305, 310s and 320s. Quite a few of those were at a nice sedate 1,000 FPS. What I found was that they punched a hole right through the animal, same as if they were going 1150, and :

I still never recovered the bullet.

The animals all seemed to act about the same.

It was a lot easier to control the recoil.

I shot the guns better, especially the short barreled guns like 4" 29s.





MS

Yeah, I am watching pretty close myself.

I'd bet JWP has some good thoughts on the matter as well.

You bet Big B, you have a half inch bone punch on the way too, What Mac said above helps too, will be waiting on JWP's take as well, i still think twist plays an important role in bullet stability through animal hide/tissue/bone etc, i think of a child's toy top, as it slows in rotation it begins to wobble.

Yeah, I believe the same thing Gunner. Get them spinning and they'll stay on point.

JWP might still be learning why we are still enamored by the marvelous 35 Whelen. I know he was working that 1885 pretty danged well last we spoke.

Yes, and iirc his 35 Whelen is a 10 twist, talk about spun up tight ; ] LOL

Oh yeah, I like what he is seeing from that over twisted old devil..

You bet, me too.

In my experience the larger the bore and meplat the less important speed is in terminal performance. I shot a mature bull Elk through the rib cage with a 440 grain wide meplat hard cast after he was down as a finisher. At a velocity about 950 to 1000 FPS out of the 500 JRH. The damage dwarfed that of the 180 from the 300 win mag that impacted at 285 yards. The exit from the 440 grain hard cast was 3 to 4 inches.

I also shot a 70 1/4 SCI bison with the 500 Linebaugh with the 525 grain WFN hard cast from Cast Performance @ 1090 FPS that exited and blood poured out of the entrance hole.

I smaller bore such as 38 special / 357 mag higher speed deginately increases terminal performance..

In my experience the 475/500's are very effective @ 100FPS and 1200 FPS gives more than adequate performance with good bullets.

Good word JWP. Thanks buddy. Should pick up the BFR this afternoon. I'll be bending your ear soon.

Yes, Great news! if we can call grizzly lighter bodied/boned big game, what did you hit the big grizzly with JWP? was it a hard cast with big meplat? if so, did it work to your satisfaction?

Thanks

This is JMO, sedate velocities do as well or nearly as well.....possibly better than the higher velocities! The only real advantage of speed is flatting the trajectory a bit, making longer shots a bit easier! In fact, unless I misunderstood John Linebaugh, the WFN actually penetrate deeper when impact velocity is in the 1000 to 1200 fps range vs. higher velocities! I’m stating that from memory......so the velocity numbers may be a little off from what he actually told me! memtb

That was the first grizzly ever shot with the 475 Linebaugh in 1988. I shot him with a 385 grain LBT LFN that I cast from wheel weights and water quenched out of the mold. Velocity was about 1350 from a 5 1/2" barreled revolver built by Hamilton Bowen.

The bear was coming in on us us as we worked a moose kill. My partner shot him first with a 338 with mag and Federal factory loaded 250 grain Partition. The bear went down and immediately sprung straight up on his feet as if spring loaded. My rifle was out of reach so I drew my revolver. The bear was angling away and aimed at the back of the rib cage in a line to the off shoulder. At the shot the bear went down spread eagle style and never gotten up again.

Yes I was very satisfied.

That all depends in my experience. If the bullet material is tough enough to withstand the higher velocity then faster peneyrates a little deeper but generally not a significant amount.

Damn, hell of a story, what a rush, grizz great first test subject, appreciate the info JWP.

Yep. My favorite .44 caliber cast bullet. LBT WFN Hardcast 250 gr bullet over 10 grains of Unique. It kills deer and feral hogs extremely well in my experience.

I’ve shot some amazing 25 yard 5-shot groups with them at that velocity range.
I’ve pushed them MUCH faster out of a Winchester 94 - .44 Trapper for some amazing 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

But really didn’t see that much difference in the way they killed deer and hogs.

I have 500 LBT .410 250 WFNs I need to loads or my 6.5” Blackhawk. I plan to drive them at about 1200 fps.

Now that I'm casting again I regret selling my BFR in 475 L and my rossi 92 in 480 ruger. They would have been great with around a 400 grain cast flat nose.

The other day I took my 77/44 with a scope on it to the range to try my lighter load 44 mag with 310g Lee wfn powder coated gas checked bullets in it. At 100 yards it was grouping about 2". I didn't chrony one from the rifle but that load from my 4" 329 clocks around 1050 fps.

I used to run 310g 44s at 1200 fps in the 4" gun. My old load was 20g of H110 and more recently 22g of PP300MP. My more recent reduced load is 10.5g of Longshot netting 1050 in the 4". It's about half the number of grains of powder for only a 150 fps loss. I just loaded a few more at 10g of Longshot to try. The 329pd can get a little sticky on ejecting cases especially when a bit dirty. I want the cases to fall out pretty easily to give me trouble free fast reloads. At 10.5 of Longshot they are just a bit sticky in that gun even though they eject easily in my other 44s.

We'll see how 10 g does and if the speed is still close to 1050. Plus my standard 45 lc load is 10g of Longshot under a 250g xtp or cast. It would make it easy to remember if they both work well at 10g.

Bb

Glad to read all this too CHLI, i use 17gr 4227 under GT Bullets version of a 255gr Keith bullet [actual 262gr] in my FA 44 Special 5.5" round butt, clocks 1020 fps, what a sweet load, forget about my no shooting ass getting all that\s there with that setup, i'd leave 10 bills on the table for anyone to pick up keep if that thing wouldn't raghole at 50 yards from a Ransom rest, crazy, happy to hear you guys have punched some game should anything wander in close.

I also run BT 250 WFNs out of my M69 over about 10 or 10.5 grains of Unique or a similar load of N350 which I think leaded less? It kills well. Night and day from a 357 bore at the same speeds.

I have not pushed them faster because it's a light gun. Regardless it's about 1050-1075 fps. Shoots nice tight groups at 50 yards and the bullets are still flying straight at 100 yards as well. I'd imagine at 1200 fps they'd be even better.

Great info fellas. I have been using 10 grains of Unique with 240 grain MBW WFN bullets in my 44 and 10 grains of Unique with the 480 Ruger and 420 grain MBW WFN's with complete satisfaction. Maybe a skosh dirty but it runs through the gun fine and seems to wipe right up pretty nice. I plan to try the same 10 grains with the 440 MBW WFN's in the 500 JRH as well, just to get the hang of it. I have ton's of Longshot as well, so that may be a step up if I wanted it.

W/O thinking too hard I can recall dozen deer and countless nuisance animals--racoons, groundhogs, dumped mean-ass dogs--I have dispatched with 44 and 45 caliber handguns using 230-325 grain cast or jacketed bullets running 850-1350 fps. With equal placement, I couldn't tell a nickel's worth of difference in any of them.

In short I would feel real comfortable packing a 45 pistol or revolver for the rest of my days. If I anticipated spending them anywhere big biters or stompers lived, a 480 Alaskan would be kept within reach and it would be loaded with heavy WFNs about 1000 fps.

They displace more soft tissue the higher they are pushed. Generally, this means the lungs. The impact velocity is what really determines seeing any kind of measurable difference, even when using the same load.

In my experience, as others have stated, hit right there isn't much difference that I can tell, although maybe on larger animals other than deer or run of the mill hogs. Animals generally keel over from holes in the right places, bigger holes leak more and heavy bullets retain more velocity down range, even when slower.

Wider noses and larger diameter holes seem to work better, with impact velocity down the list.

I've had one 300gr. 45 WFN function accurately down to 900 fps at a hundred yards and a 325 WFN needed kicked past 1200 to keep it from throwing fliers. Both killed deer in pretty much the same fashion, but the more sedate load was a heck of a lot more pleasurable to shoot both at the range and without the two week ear ringing when hunting was over.

So I would test the reduced load out to 100 yards at least, farther is better, just to be sure your getting stability and accuracy. If you have it, there's no reason for the noise, racket and recoil, unless of course you want it.

My experience as well.

It’s amazing how accurate those Freedom Arms Revolvers are, Gunner. Finally sold my 454 version several years ago.
Got tired of all the noise. 🤠

Yes sir they are, bought my FA 454 more than 25 years ago for a real good price, it came to me at 7.5" with factory mag-na-port, not long ago i sent it in to FA, 10 days later plus 250 bucks and some shipping i got back a very handy 5.5" barreled 454, best money i've spent in a long while, very handy and point-able, my old easy load with 300gr Cast Performance bullet at 1350 is still right there, didn't loose crap with barrel cut except some ugly porting, haven't shot my hellbender load with 325gr A-Frames over a max dose of 296, i suspect they'll be as obnoxious as ever, that's all good if a man needs it though.

This is a point not to be overlooked! My previously mentioned .44 special load using a 255gr WFN at 1050 is much more pleasant on the ears than any of my traditional .44 mag/.45 colt loads using a 300gr at 1150, or a .357 with full velocity loads. Anymore, if I can't get the ear plugs in before I shoot a deer with a revolver, the deer walks or gets shot with the rifle. If I've got the special though, it's just draw and shoot.

Shot this bull Gemsbok in South Africa last week with a WFN from my FA 41 magnum at 54 yds using the high shoulder shot. The bull never took a single step, just dropped straight down at the shot. Bullet went completely through as they always do. Velocity was a bit higher than I normally run them because of the 10" barrel plus these Gemsbok were wild & they had me zero for 150 yds. Took me 5 days to get this old warrior. These 250 gr WFN bullets penetrate fantastic, whether at 1000 fps or 1300 fps, I've taken a lot of game with them. My buddy with me on the hunt took 4 animals with his FA 41 magnum using heavy cast bullet, Zebra, Nyala, Wildebeest & Impala. I took 4 other animals with my bisley 45 & cast.[img]https://i.imgur.com/PXYFir9h.jpg?1[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bOyliwNh.jpg?1[/img]

Dick

Awesome hunt! Congrats on the animals!

I killed a lot of hogs over the years with a Comtemder .44 mag - with a suppressor on the end of it's 14" barrel. My favorite loads were shooting 300 - 330 gr hard cast at under 1000FS. Most shots were 50 yards or less, a few out to 75 or so. VERY effective, excellent penetration! (And easier for the ears!)

Mike Holmes

Man that's some good stuff Idaho1945, you guys had a blast, also hope you ate all you could hold of the Gemsbok and Zebra loin, Thanks for the load info as well, easy for me to keep that stored, 41 to 45 cal, 250 to 300+ grains of hard cast, 1000 to 1300 fps, a lot can be brought to bear so loaded and placed correctly.

Dick is that a 97 or 83?

What is a great all around cast bullet for the 44? Something that will work well on big game and is accurate at long pistol range. Something between about 240-310g. One bullet to rule them all that I can just load a bunch of.

I still wonder about modeling one off of the Lee 310g but leaving the shank off where the gad check goes. Maybe end up in the 280g range. Just cast it, powder coat it and load it over a medium speed powder like Longshot, be-86, or power pistol or something similar. Get it going between 1050-1200 or so and call it good.


Bb

BB, I use the Montana Bullet Works WFN 240’s pretty much all the time in my 44. Most of the time with 10 grains of Unique. It’s been accurate for me. No animal killing with it but I’d suspect it’d be fine for most animals.

I’d be interested in hearing which others the experienced handgun hunters use.

280gn LBT WFN GC or LFN.

It's a model 83. I've killed a lot of game with a 240-250 gr bullet using 10 grs of Unique. I've killed a lot more using the same bullet with 21.0 grs of 2400, including several elk, antelope & bears.

Dick

I used the 280 gr LBT WFN quite a bit before I switched to the 250 gr LBT WFN. In my 44’s.

Both phenomenal bullets. Both very accurate. Can’t tell a bit of difference in kills with them though.

Thought you might get a kick out of these old Land Cruisers, they are in perfect condition! There are 12 people on the one counting the young guy riding on the suicide seat on the front bumper. Don't know if he was smiling later in the day, they drive like hell down those dirt roads!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/eAQk7zRh.mp4[/img]





Dick

My only experience on game with non-expanding cast lead bullets is with my Hawken cap-lock 50cal with 320gr bullets at 1200-1300fps mv. All elk hit had a complete pass through and ran approximately 30 yards falling stone dead. The spine hit ones fell immediately and died in 5 to 10 minutes.

The same exact pattern as the one's I shot with a 30-06 rifle, except those fell still alive after a 30 yard run.

I have full confidence in cast lead big bore handgun bullets launched at anything over 900fps.