Wow! been having fun with a new 45 Super i sprung up, just bought the Springfield Garrison from HilhamHawk, Thanks Troy, it has a forged steel slide and grip frame along with ramped stainless match barrel, i ordered some parts from Wilson Combat and directly from Wolff Springs.

The setup:

Full length Wilson Combat guide rod
28lb Wolff recoil spring
X-tra power firing pin spring that came with recoil spring
Wilson Combat flat bottom firing pin stop
25lb Wolff hammer spring

I installed these yesterday afternoon, last night before dark i fired factory Mag-Tech 230gr ball and my old 45 ACP +P 230gr FMJ-FP load, it runs 1000 fps, the pistol worked fine with both loads locking the slide back at last shot, brass was 5 and 9 feet off right shoulder, i was happy, recoil was next to nothing.

I had it in my mind i wanted to shoot a HP bullet in this pistol, also knew it needed to be tough, thought was, standard 45 ACP hp's driven at Super velocities wont fare well in penetration, integrity and retained weight, so last week bought two boxes of the tough 200gr FTX bullet meant for the 460 S&W and 2100 fps, i checked powder burn rate charts and picked 10gr 800X powder, snipped the red tips off and loaded to 1.225" col, rounds fed like a greased glass rod, loaded in new Starline 45 Super brass lit with old white box Winchester large pistol primers, the ones for standard or mag loads, the load clocked 1257 fps, brass was 16 feet off right shoulder, no smileys, dents, bulges etc, brass and primers looked great at this level, no firing pin swipe etc either.


Filled two 5 gal buckets with water, shot into them lengthways, bullet punched out the back of bucket one to hit the second and bounced back in, retained weight was near 198 grains, expansion measured .748 inch, perfect! shot two off knee seated on shop slab at 25 yards, around an inch apart, with 6 o'clock hold on bottom of Redfield big diamond, i can work with that.

Light for caliber yes, and only a random powder charge picked, but i'm happy with this setup, if a man wanted to get serious, a good hardcast 255-275gr flat nose with 22 BHN alloy at 1150 fps would certainly bring home the bacon.

45 Super is pretty outstanding. Hard to beat that in a 1911.

You bet, fun stuff Mac, i think this tough little 200gr hp will make a fine pig popper.

Picture for Gunner500

Sounds like a winner! Looking forward to seeing a picture of a hog or three on the ground from your new Super.

Many thanks for posting pics JWP, Thanks MOGC, it'll be a fun little carry gun, be nice to pop some venison too.

Here are the other pictures for Gunner500

Thanks again JWP, i appreciate it Sir, you know, the more i think about it, that tough 200gr FTX would make a damn solid SD carry bullet load, may really excel on barriers and heavy clothing etc.

Agreed, should be a good SD bullet

Been thinking of that or a 460 rowland. I have a Glock 41 would buy a barrel for it to use 45 super. I think I would use one of my 1911's for the rowland.

Now you’ve gone and done it! I caught the virus, now looking for the cure. I love the 10mm, expect the .45 Super will really wind my clock! Nice pistol.

I believe that more now than when i first posted, Hornady website says it has a hard core with antimony and a thicker copper jacket, i broke off two petals with pliers and tried to pry the core loose from the jacket with small flathead screwdriver, it's hanging on tight, i'm just glad i could get some good expansion at a lowly 1250 fps compared to the 460 S&W's 2100 fps+


Get on it OEH, these guns are fun, you know, the 1911 45 ACP's remind me of a 426 Hemi engine, you can drive around just fine with 500 HP and a light tune, or go BTTW with 1200 HP on pump gas and cruise town all night long, power in reserve with both platforms.

LOL GF1, i am here to help ; ] i have a like 10mm too, with either, 10mm hardcast with 200-220's or 45 Super with hardcast 255-275's they will both get it all done as far as keeping wayward critters uninterested in your hide, both great cartridges.

And since i dont have pressure testing eq, i mic'd an unsized factory stick of brass, then a FL sized new stick and got .471" on both, mic'd the three fired cases from today unsized at .473 inch, a whole 0.002" case head expansion says pressures are very reasonable with this load, went and mic'd some +P loaded standard WW fired brass at 474.5, so yes, i have been firing hotter loads all along in 45 ACP +P, different pistol, but i dont think that Baer is going to have any slope.

Well into the safe zone with these 200gr FTX loads at 1250 fps in 45 Super brass, fired old +P 230gr FMJ-FP load put up in WW 45 ACP brass in new Springfield Garrison, case head expansion was 474.5, so yes, i was harder all along using standard brass with +P loads over the new load in 45 Super brass, only talking about one and a half thousandths, but thought i throw that out there anyway, safe shooting everyone.

As soon as the heat wave breaks, we require pictures of dead animals and recovered bullets.

LOL, you bet my good Sir, it may be hard to catch one of these bullets in a deer or pig, but i'll dang sure try, speaking of recovered bullets, i told a bud about shooting through a 5 gal bucket of water, hitting the back of second bucket and bouncing back in first bucket, he couldn't figure how that could happen, i referred him to this thread, he was somehow able to blow up JWP's pic of the buckets to see the bullet exit hole at the bottom of the big crack and thought it bounced back in where the big crack is.

From what little i know, and having never cut the tabs on that bucket lid to remove it, blowing a factory sealed lid off and rupturing a 5 gal bucket with a light semi auto pistol tells me a whole lotta goodie was going on at impact and travel, should make a fine white tail/pig sidearm, old bud has a long barreled Glock 460 Rowland, guess who is going to be at the LGS first thing Monday morning to buy the remaining boxes of 200gr FTX for his Rowland? according to him, it'd make a perfect flat shooting load in his rig with delta pro sight, said he'd never thought about clipping the tips on the bullets.

Gunner, good deal on your Super, I think you'll really enjoy it.

I just finished putting another Super together, this time a Glock 21.

I had put it together with another brand barrel, the the throat was so short in that one that performance was, for lack of a better word, compromised. There were a couple of other small things I didn't like, too.

OALs with two bullets I like to shoot in the Super were shortened quite a bit. I normally seat the Missouri Bullet Company's 255 grain bullet at 1.26" in my 1911 Super, but max in this barrel was 1.8". The Montana Bullet Works 250 grain LFN GC is normally seated at 1.24" in my 1911 (this is to allow the meplat to clear the ejection port, not a throat issue), but max was 2.02".

This barrel will go to CylinderHone to address that issue.

Meanwhile, I bought a KKM Precision barrel. That came in yesterday. The throating in this barrel will allow the original OALs to be used and allow interchangeability of the ammo between my 1911 and M21 Glock.

The "other " barrel is SBN treated, and as a result, is rough. Velocities indicated pressure was elevated and as hard as an SBN barrel is, I don't know how long it'll be before it smooths out. The KKN is very smooth, the compensator felt like it was spinning on bearings when I installed it. I'm really impressed with this barrel and hope shooting it is not a disappointment.

Looking to get 1035 to 1050 fps with the MBW 250 LFN GC. That looks to be doable with fairly mild pressure and the chamber looks to support the case very well.

Now, If Starline will get the backorders on Super brass out of the way, I'd be happy. I'd like to have a couple hundred more cases cause I may wear out the ones I have now!

Mine is an xd tactical 5.25" threaded and Mrs. Geno's is an M&P 2.0 with a 5" factory threaded barrel. Only needed a recoil spring (20lb wolff) in mine. Hers needed a recoil spring and double sprung magazines.

Thanks Vic, those 250's at 1050 will lay a hard slap on anything, nice rig there.

That XD is a monster masher Geno, hope you guys bloody those on some FL pork this year.

I Just got a 20lb flat wire Wilson spring and flat firing pin stop with thoughts of setting up for +P or Super loads. Is 28lbs and the other springs required as well to handle it? I thought i had ordered a 24 but I got a 20. Don't want to beat the heck out of it. I really want to get another 460 Rowland setup, but from Clark this time. But if I can setup for the 45 Super that would carry me through deer season.

Gzig5, You can get by with a 20 lb recoil spring. The best mods for slowing the slide down is a Flat Firing pin Stop and about a 26 to 28 lb Mainspring. I run 20 recoil/28 mainspring/FFPS in my Ruger 1911. I also added a compensator, though mine is one that takes the place of a barrel bushing and does not screw onto the barrel, so it basically slows slide velocity down by mass. Ejection distance is 6 feet with comp, about 8 without. ACP loads dribble at my feet.

Thanks, Gunner. One thing I noticed putting it through its initial paces is that boy, that comp really helps with recoil. Ugly as hell, but it helps. Two other things I noticed are the lower barrel axis helps with muzzle flip and the larger Glock grip helps with recoil, all being equal with the two pistols. The Glock also seems a little less fussy about feeding certain bullet profiles, the one bullet in particular being the Missouri Bullet Company's 215 grain Express. That's the only bullet I've tried so far that chokes the 1911. The Glock feeds them slick as snake snot.

gzig5, I'm no 1911 guru or gunsmith, i called my 'Smith and told him what i wanted to do, he's a traditionalist and didn't think much of my idea wanting to hot rod my 1911, he reluctantly told me what to order beacuse he knew i was going to do it anyway, he also said with these parts i wouldn't beat my new pistol up, also said to save my factory parts to put it back the way it came when i came to my senses! it may be a little on the heavier duty side so sprung and setup, but that's fine by me, good luck and have fun, it's a great round and as said, has plenty of power in reserve built on an all steel 5" platform, i know i'm leaving plenty on the table with 200grs at 1250 fps, but that's plenty for what i want to do.

With a bullet that retains near 100% weight and penetrates to next week and is accurate, i'm there, just need to get some hair in front of those sights.

10-4 on all that Vic, my pistol is so heavy, and with only firing 200grs, recoil is nothing, it do have some muzzle blast though, the fireball from 10gr 800X at near dusk is impressive LOL, those Glocks will eat anything, the barrels drop down really nice in the back when the slide gets blown back, great combat/hunting guns.

Finally shot the Glock 21 with the KKM barrel today and got a baseline on pressure/velocity.

Life and its time demands sometimes get in the way.... Work is really wanting a large part of it and since it pays and pays well, I defer to it. Today was the first one in 12 days I had off....

I have not sent the barrel to CylinderHone yet, wanting to get an idea of performance potential before mods. I did find that the KKM will meet my parameter of the 255 grain Pinbuster at 1050 fps at reasonably moderate pressure, and having "the treatment" done will allow lower pressure at that velocity. It also enhances accuracy to a degree, but a Glock full of drop-in parts ain't gonna be but so accurate. I'll admit the pistol is accurate enough for it's intended use (to protect me), but the Indian could use a little improvement in skills, which we will work on. I promise. Since finding out about velocity and reliability were the most important thing I wanted to find out about, I didn't really shoot for accuracy, but I know how well I shoot....

Reliability with large-meplat bullets was 100%. The PinBuster and 215 grain Xpress were fired.

I have another Glock 21 that's going to get the Rowland treatment, we'll see how that compares to the Clark kit (an excellent conversion) in my 1911.

Good stuff Vic, and yessir, grab that cabbage when available, dont leave any on the table, you can then get to F'ing off permanetly a lot sooner ; ] those loads sound great, the Rowland setup is going to be a real hunting hammer, i got an empty apple cider vinegar gallon jug from Wife, cut a notch in the top and dropped in a few rocks, set it out at 20/25/30/35 yards at the base of an old bow stand tree, got up in the stand and fired at all ranges, my 45 Super is ready, i will most certainly shoot a pig with it while bowhunting deer instead of ruining a 20 dollar arrow and broadhead.

I still think this 200gr FTX bullet designed for max speed of 2100 fps will act like a super premium at only 1250 fps, going to be hard to recover one on a deer or pig, will be great fun testing this.

Yea, when I quit working, I'm gonna QUIT.

Sounds like you've gotten ready, both pistol and skills-wise. Just waiting on the day. I like how you've duplicated an actual hunting scenario. As for pistol hunting, I'll admit I don't have the confidence in my skill just yet. But that gives me something to work on.

The FTX sounds like it'll be tough enough. I don't know if it's the best thing, but I feel like a through and through is what to strive for, and you've got a load that's designed around what you're going after.

I'm interested in seeing what the MBC 215 Express will do. I originally thought "Heavy bullet" with the Super, but a 210 grain (actual weight) with a big meplat and Brinnel hardness of 20 going 1200+ fps sounds like it might do.

Sounds like you have a plan for that Super, we're hoping it comes together!

VIC, What would I need to run a 45 super in my Glock 41?

What I did with my 21 is: KKM barrel, NDZ 24 lb Recoil spring, and extra power mag springs, to start with.

I like to use a compensator to reduce slide speed, though really not needed at sane Super pressures.

The KKM barrel I'm using now has their proprietary compensator on it, but I have ordered another KKM with supressor threads to accomodate a Carver Custom 4-port comp, and both barrels will eventually be sent to CylinderHone to have some work done on the throating. This will do two things, make the throating more ammenable to cast bullets and second, allow a longer OAL with some bullets that tend to need a shorter OAL. This has the effect of lowering pressure over the original throating at a given velocity or higher speed at max pressure.

I look for <8 feet ejection, saves frame battering. Comps really help with that. They are loud and ugly, but work.

If the 41 were mine, I'd look at a KKM threaded barrel and have CylinderHone massage it, Carver custom 4-port comp, NDZ 24-lb recoil spring (captured), and some extra-power magazine springs, though the mag springs are really not needed if slide velocity is kept sane. I just like the assurance.

A 255 grain hardcast bullet at 1050 fps gives a good balance of power but quick recovery for repeat shots, and penetrate really good.

One thing I don't know yet is: Will the pistol cycle ACP loads with the 4-port comp? If not, I'll change the recoil spring to a stock-weight one. The 2-port comp dribbles ACP loads at my feet. I just don't know if the faster powders used in an ACP load generate enough gas to make that a concern, but I'll find out.

There, that should be clear as mud....

Thanks for the info.

Yessir, all good fun stuff Vic, you wont go wrong with those heavy hard cast slugs, will be looking forward to your results as well, it's going to be a great hunting season this year, i'll get it started with Cape Buffalo and plains game in Africa on the banks of the Limpopo to the North to the edges of the Green Kalahari to the South and West.

Jealous here. Wishing you lotsa luck and a safe trip.

Thanks Vic.

I have interest in the 45 Super. I bought a 10mm thinking that would scratch that itch..... but not really. A half inch diameter bullet moving 1200 with alot of friends in backup is appealing.

So - what is the best platform to a 45 Super?

It's a great round bwinters, it's my second build, both were built on all steel 5" 1911's, i cant think of a better platform.

I have Supers in both the 1911 and Glock 21 platforms.

As Gunner pointed out, the 1911 is great, just make sure you either have "Super" brass or a fully supported barrel. It's easier to calm the slide velocity down with a couple of tricks besides springs.

The Glock offers a lower bore axis, larger grip to spread recoil, and some flex in the frame. You absolutely should get an aftermarket barrel, the OEM design is lacking in support but is reliable as hell with ACP loads. Doesn't take too long to get "smileys", but with a supported barrel, even ACP cases can be used to develop some rather stout loads.

I recommend barrels for either one go to CylinderHone for a throat treatment. It's not expensive and turnaround is fast, does wonders with pressure, and is designed around shooting heavy cast bullets. I generally use 250/255s at 1050 to 1100 fps.

At this point, I'd say "what platform do you like"?

Here's a pic of some Montana Bullet Works 250 grain LFN GC, brinnel hardness, I believe, is 22.

At 1050 fps, recoil is at a level that allows quick follow-ups, and those bullets will penetrate for a couple days..

Hey vic,

I have several Glocks and have grown to like the platform. Took me a summer to learn how to shoot them but find them comfortable and accurate. If I had my wishes, I'd use a Glock 21 with aftermarket barrel. I like the platform and capacity of Glocks.

I had a couple 1911s and love them. I would like a bit more magazine capacity than the 1911 offers. For reference, I carry my Glock 20 alot. Each magazine holds 15 rounds. I dont feel undergunned with a single magazine but almost always carry 2 riding in an HPG chest rig. The Glock 21 holds 13. My RIA held 7-8 as I recall.

Spray and pray is not a viable strategy but I shoot the Glock fairly accurate at a rapid pace. I wasn't as accurate with my RIAs in quick fire mode. Slow, rested or offhand, the RIAs were accurate enough for me - but when I began moving around and mimicking situations I thought might develop in the woods, the Glock is a bit more accurate, and it carries more rounds.

Long-winded way of saying, I'd use a Glock if safe and feasible.

Okay, I just finished putting a 21 together.

I have tried Alpha Wolf and KKM for barrels, my preference is the KKM, specifically the threaded barrel. It's 5.375" long. I haven't tried it yet, but Carver Custom makes a 4-port comp that ought to really tame slide velocity down.

I have 4 mags with SLR rifleworks +4 extensions, and several OEM capacity with +20% springs. The SLR extensions seem to be reliable and do allow the mag to hold 17.

Gun with the SLR extension, comp is a KKM 4-port, another efficient design. The only issue I have with that barrel setup is the threads are a proprietary pitch and size so you gotta run whatcha brung. It does work good.

I could like that. I'm interested in your loads and accuracy.

Thanks for posting.

I have a new lone wolf g21 barrel and carver 3 port comp in the classifieds that I planned to do exactly this with , and never picked up the g21

I have shot underwood 45 super and some similar hand loads out of the factory barrel and a Kkm in my g41 with no issues

Vic,
What is the metplat diameter on those big girls and what range of OAL length feeds well?

bwinters, I'm still working on the loads for the Glocks. As of now, I haven't had the Glock barrels throated. The KKM barrels are fairly accommodating of the longer OALs, which really helps with pressure and an eventual max load.

My standard start to test a barrel is:

Starline brass (unobtainium at the moment)
WLP primer
10 grains AA7
Missouri Bullet Company 255 grain Pinbuster (actual weight 250.4 grains, hi-tech coated)

1.18" OAL

My SR1911, with throated barrel 954 fps
Alpha Wolf Barrel 1037 fps
KKM Precision barrel 1007 fps

Measured case capacity in all three barrels was essentially the same, 27.2 grains of water.

I don't know what max OAL is in the SR1911, but there is no trouble going 1.26" at all, which is all the Wilson P47Ds allow.

The Alpha Wolf barrel Max OAL is 1.18" and maxes out on pressure pretty much right out of the gate. I'm not going any further with it, it's melonited, costs a lot to throat and the guy said it won't come out as nice so I'll leave it as is.

The KKM barrel will allow just past 1.26". I haven't had a chance to verify it yet, but QL says I should get 1050 fps with this bullet with pressure to spare, but not as low as the throated barrel in the 1911.

I now have two of the KKMs, and as soon as I can, I'll get them throated and re-run the data I have. I have one obstacle, work. I am going to be very busy from now to Christmas, and the best I'll be able to do for shooting is maybe once every other weekend. Next goal is to compare throated data to unthroated in the same barrel.

As an aside, the Montana Bullet Works bullet shown in the pics were tested with the same load, the exception being a 1.202" OAL. The results were 1015 fps. This bullet feeds impeccably in the Glock, and my Clark-barreled Rowland in a Kimber 1911, but I haven't determined if I trust it in my Ruger 1911. So far, it's been Ok, I just haven't gotten the warm-fuzzies yet. These bullets are somewhat expensive and can be harder to get so I don't blast them away at the rate I do the Pinbusters.

I eventually plan to migrate to them (the MBW LBTs) but I'll get things sorted out with the Pinbusters. I like the larger meplat of the MBW bullet. In the 1911, I ran them at 1037 fps with pressure not to far out of +P range, so 1050 was easy. The Ruger barrel is not as well supported as the Clark barrel in my other 1911 or the aftermarket Glock barrels, so I like to keep pressure as low as possible with it.



gzig5, the pictured bullets are the Montana Bullet Works 250 grain LFN GC for the .45 LC. They are .665" long, weigh 254.3 grains actual weight, and the meplat is .325". I'm using .451", but I'll eventually try .452". These bullets are about 265 dollars for 500 vs about 70 to 80 for the Pinbusters, so I do a lot of the legwork with the Pinbusters

My Rowland 1911 eats the LFN-GCs up, no reliability issues whatsoever.

Back to the Super, I run them at 1.23" OAL because any longer, the edge of the meplat catches on the edge of the ejection port if I cycle a live round out of the chamber of my 1911. In the Glock, a dummy test showed that out to 1.26" is possible, but I haven't verified mag function yet. If I get thing hittin' on a hundred with the Pinbusters, it's just a quick-n-dirty switch to the MBWs for field carry.

Thanks for the great info, very helpful. I'm try to decide if I want to invest in a Clark 460 Rowland kit or play with the Super. I had a Rowland brand 460 kit but wasn't impressed with the barrel and chamber quality. I've got a throat reamer to touch up the barrels on my 45's so they'll all feed the same length ammo so knowing a OAL that works in advance is helpful. I've already got brass for the 460 so I may just go that way. The Kimber shot pretty nice with the comp and I'm going to put a flat firing pin stop in, which should help with slide velocity either way. I've got a six banger mold for the Lee 252-255 RF to start with on the heavies.

The Clark kit is a very well done kit, great support at the chamber, throated very good, and the comp is quite efficient. It took very little fitting to get it to drop in my Kimber and function proper for a 1911. It didn't fit my Ruger so well, so I keep it in my Kimber. It feeds flat meplat bullets like butter

My Kimber is outfitted with a Flat Firing Pin stop, 28 lb Mainspring, and 20 lb recoil spring. Mags have a +10% spring (Wilson 47D), but I'm only running Super-level pressure so slide velocity is not an issue, getting about 4-5 ft of ejection. I'm running a 275 grain Hunter's Supply at 1050 fps along with the Montana Bullet Works LFN GC (1100 fps), recoil is mild, so repeat shots are a pretty fast follow up. I run the speeds up anymore and time between shots gets longer, so I figure a compromise is in order.

Vic in VA, I have been shooting the 215 grain coated bullets from Missouri (IIRC). They penetrate well, nice meplat and are reasonable cost. I like the montana bullet work meplat but their cast bullets are pricey almost as much as a jacketed vs the 215 grain bullets.

What powder are you using for your super loads? I have been using AA No 7 so far. There was not any Power Pistol or other powders available when I started buying and the AA no 7 seems to work well.

What are your thoughts on MBW's 250 vs the Missouri 215s?

I'm going to try the MBC 215s, I've run them at ACP level loads and like the idea. They would be sufficient for anything around here and getting them to 1100 to 1150 fps wouldn't be too stressful, probably much less so than the 255s. Extrapolation on QL from the small amount of data I have is encouraging, the bullet has a nice meplat and is sufficiently hard, plus being coated. Recoil is probably lighter, too. Once I found an OAL that my pistol liked, they've run slicker'n Snake Snot.

I agree on the price. MBW makes a nice bullet and they're proud of them.

AA7 is what I'm using, it has given very good results so I'm going to continue using it. I may try PP at a later date more as a curiosity than anything, I've use a lot of AA7 over the years and have confidence in it.

My goal is to eventually develop a load with the MBW 250, but I'll substitute until I get all the legwork done andthen fine-tune a load for it. It has the right meplat size, weight, and hardness for defense from bear/pig, at least it looks very comforting to me and is what I'd like to use. That would be my carry load while in the great outdoors. Though that 215, if it penetrates good enough, would be all I need around my house for what we have here. Bear are the biggest animals, but have been no danger to me. Feral dogs (especially) and coyotes have been the most trouble.

Good thread and good info, thanks all for sharing.
I have played around a bit with a 45 super light... I run a flat bottom firing pin stop, a 20 lb recoil spring with a poly buffer thingy on the guide rod.
My load is a Lee 255 cast from wheel weights , powder coated and enough Unique to yield 900 to 950 fps. I can keep my ejected brass within 12'
So far so good...

Good stuff Vic.

'Fubar, i'm going to try and drill a big boar through the shoulders and see just how tough that little 200gr FTX at 1250 fps reallly is, sounds like you have a good handle on your setup.

I am going to fit the flat FP stop and put in the 20lb Wilson flat spring and give that load a try for this deer season. I won't have time to get the Clark kit and get it tuned up but it will happen. I replaced all the mag springs with Wolff +10% when I had the Rowland kit so should be good to go there.

Would it be easy to convert and M&P 2.0 45acp to 45 super? I like the M&P platform better than Glocks. What aftermarket barrel would you guys recommend?

Vic - good info, thank you!

Only tried this is several 45 ACPs. It shot well and functioned in all but a Kahr CW45.
.

.

.
AFAIK, beartooth bullets is defunct. I've subsituted, the RCBS 270gr SAA sized to .451 and seated to plunk (OAL 1.200 +- for both in my guns) and function thru your magazine for almost identical results.
.
Have worked with 45 Super in HK USP for a bit more velocity and 460 Rowland (in both 1911, and HKUSP) for more velocity yet. The load pictured above functioned with no gun mods - if intended to shoot a lot, would go with heavier recoil springs and flat bottomed firing pin stop in 1911s.


FWIW,

Paul

Paul,

Thank you for the info! and nice shooting!

Went out and shot Glock #2 today.

It is also a KKM-barrel equipped pistol, this one is threaded for a suppressor so it has 5/8 x 24 threads instead of the proprietary size/pitch of the KKM barrel equipped with a KKM compensator, and is also 3/8" longer. This barrel is equipped with a Carver Custom 4-port compensator, recoil spring is a 24-lb NDZ captured unit.

Load #1 was my baseline load, Starline brass, 10 grains AA7, WLR primer, and a MBC 255 Pinbuster at 1.18" OAL. For all intents and purposes, data was right in line with the other KKM barrel, indicating consistency in manufacture.

Numbers for this barrel/load were 1018 fps, indicating pressure is 25391 psi according to QL and everything adjusted to reflect actual weight, length, etc. Ejection was about 4 to 5 feet, recoil was not at all objectionable. The Carver comp works very good!

The ogive on this bullet allows longer OALs, so I extended that to 1.252" and increased the charge to 11.3 grains. Results are 1073 fps, pressure (QL) is estimated at 25,040 psi. That's a good increase in velocity at essentually the same pressure, of course at the cost of a little more powder. Ejection was the same. An increase in OAL to 1.26" would net, according to QL, velocity of about 1055 fps and a corresponding drop in pressure to app. 24.7 Kpsi. The Glock mags will accomodate that length.

.45 ACP-level loads dropped the cases at my feet.

I'll say that, though it is large, the Carver Custom 4-port comp really calms slide velocity down, and recoil is not bad at all, quite mild if you're used to a .44 mag revolver. A person could deliver pretty fast aimed fire with this load/pistol.

Now, barrels will be sent to CylinderHone for some massaging. This means I'll have to shoot these pistols some more.....bummer

Sounds like a nice setup. Is there a specific reason for using the WLR primer instead of a "pistol" primer, either regular or magnum? Maybe for pressure handling capability or just what you have available? I need to see if I can find some AA7 around here.

Yes, very specific. It's what I had.

I am running out of them and have managed to aquire a few CCIs. The CCIs look like what I'm eventually going to migrate to.

These are not loads running on the ragged edge so I'm not concerned about pressure, just hoping reasonable accuracy is there. Once loads are determined, I'll check accuracy but these loads are intended for a "woods defense" type thing so benchrest gun precision is not going to be a primary requirement.

They will also not be for daily carry in social situations.

I also want to try the MBC 215 Express.

I opted for a Wilson Combat in 460 Rowland after trying several 45 Super and Rowland conversions. I use Underwood Ammo and it remains much more reliable if your life depends on it.

200gr XTP’S are running 1385 fps from my 5” 45 Super

Well I got the EGW flat FP stop fit nicely and the 28lb mainspring was a bit of a trick but I didn't launch any parts. Unfortunately the 20lb flat recoil spring won't work with my guide rod, it needs one .250" diameter so I had to order a round wire one which puts me back a week or so. While I was at it I ordered an EGW base for my Holosun 507C because I struggle to see the front sight anymore.

Looking for 45 Super data for the 200-255 lead bullets for Blue Dot, Longshot, Unique, Bullseye, 700X or 2400. Those are the only pistol powders I have access to currently.

Tag…..I’ve got a 5” Kimber that may find gainful employment as a result of this thread.

gzig5:

I have a Sprinfield XD tac. with 20 lb. Wolfe spring. Make sure you have a fully supported case head barrel.

Load is a 265 gr SWC sized .452, Fed 150 primer, in Starline .45 +P brass.

8.2 gr. Power pistol =1065 fps. Load seats to 1.256 in.

Longshot and Power pistol are similar in velocity production per grain.

As always, use this load at your own risk.

I put a Clark .460 Rowland kit in a Springfield several years ago, and liked it - but got talked out of it on a trade. Have a HK USP .45 now, and have read it is OK for. both 45 ACP +P & .45 Super? Have a box of each by Underwood, both with 255 gr Hard Cast Flat Nose, with Underwood rating them at 925 fps for the +P and 1075 fps for the Super. Haven't tried these in the USP - yet, but want to use them as potential "pig medicine".

Anyone see any problems with these loads in this pistol?

Mike Holmes

Should be fine in the HK

I have *heard* the USP is Super-rated. I imagine that is assuming fresh springs, which I have a tendency to refresh pretty often anyway. If I were to replace the springs, I would think about a pound or two heavier than normal if a steady diet is anticipated.

A 255 hardcast at 925 fps is a penetrating mo-fo, and Underwood uses a good bullet. As far as Super, I am leaning more and more to the Missouri Bullet Company PinBuster at 1050 fps for a variety of reasons, cost and accuracy being two.

I have one Rowland in 1911, waiting on a kit for a Glock 21, and I've established a load I like in the 1911 using a Hunters Supply 275 at about 1075 fps.

I wouldn't hesitate to use either load you mentioned for pig medicine. I believe either one will knock the oink right out of them.

I have a Glock 21 with a fully supported barrel and 24 pound Wolf recoil spring. With the Missouri Bullet 255 grain pin buster and Power Pistol powder this easily produces 1025 FPS. With this set up case ejection is 8-9 feet. The load is powerful and accurate.

I think rjrenner makes 7" long slide 1911's still. Chambered for 45 super and acp

Here she is, next to Grandpa (belonged to wife's grandfather who was Lt. Cmdr in WW2) which is a 1917 Remington frame with a Colt slide. The Kimber's new 20lb spring and EGW sight base came in and are mounted. Getting that original rear sight out was a bear but I mounted the slide in the Kurt mill vice and shaped a brass punch to drive it out with a 3lb hammer. No damage to sight or slide but it didn't want to move at first. I also took the opportunity to lengthen the throat lead with a Manson reamer so I could run the bullets out to 1.200"+. I may have gone a touch deep but it doesn't shoot any worse than before.
I loaded some extrapolated loads with Blue Dot and Longshot since they are similar in burn rate to AA7 and Power Pistol. Bullet is powder coated Lee .452 255-FP. Brass is shortened 460 Rowland because 45 Super is about unobtainium at the moment. The Longshot loads were way too hot, which was surprising. I won't mention the weights but I must have screwed up with the scale so I'll revisit when I have more time. Didn't have time for chronograph either. The Holosun was pretty well centered from the getgo and initial group on the upper bull was pretty decent from a shaky rest. The second Blue Dot group settled into a bit over 1.5" and made me smile a little. That should tighten up with better rest next time. I like the Holosun, this is my first experience with one of these type of optics. I also ordered a neoprene hood for the optic, which hasn't come in yet. I think this will work nicely for how I want to use it for deer season and hiking in general. I modified my M7 chest holster to accommodate the optic and it should be OK for now.

Sounds good!

I just got in a .460 Rowland kit from Authentic .460 Rowland people. I'm converting one of my Glock 21s.

I have a Clark kit in a Kimber 1911, and have some loads made up for that, so I measured throats. The Glock barrel's throat is .039" longer than the Clark which means there shouldn't be an issue, if anything the Glock could be slightly slower, all else being equal. The Rowland loads I like are only in the 25-26 Kpsi range anyway.

Back to your 1911. It should run pretty good with the setup you describe, and the cartridge is a hoot. You are right about the brass, I ended up buying a stash of +P because, again, the loads I like are not that far above +P pressure. If your barrel has good support, you may consider that unless you're running balls-to-the-walls.

Well, I can tell you that the Longshot loads I shot were well beyond balls to the wall and the brass wasn't hurt so the barrel has pretty good support. Appeared to be close to proof loads, no dimple in the fired primer. Not sure what I did but I'm going to revisit that powder later.

I really liked how the Rowland I had shot and how well the comp worked, I just didn't think it was as well put together as I wanted. The Clark kit should be better when I get there. I have 200 Rowland cases and that should hold me on the high pressure end. I think you can shoot ACP in the Rowland chamber? I know that my Rowland barrel was deep chambered by nearly .080" and the Rowland case was hanging off the extractor hook for headspace, so ACP wouldn't be much different. That was one of the reasons I got rid of it. Any experience with ACP in the Rowland chamber?

Great shooting and nice irons Gzig5, hope you get some meat in front of those this season, mines ready, need to pack it up on the mountain and get next to that giant mama black russian sow, asap!

Vic, funny about the brass, old bud i sold my first 45 Super to told me a few days ago that he's been using standard 45 ACP brass with his Super loads, 230gr FMJ's at 1100 fps, said he never picked up the 45 Super brass i sold him and couldn't find anymore new Starline 45 Super cases, he still has both eyes and all his fingers, maybe the standard brass is okay at those levels, he uses 800X powder as well.

Gunner, as I understand it, the headstamped brass was to address the lack of support in a typical 1911 barrel. I also understand that the newer 1911s have better support, so the regular brass very well could be sufficient.

Where I heard use of standard brass was with guys who have aftermarket barrels that have much improved support, and the most often group I hear using ACP brass for Super (and beyond) are guys with Glock 21s, of course that is probably due to gleaning the info from a Glock-specific site.

My Ruger SR1911 appears to have good support as does my Gen-4 21 with a KKM barrel. My Super loads usually top out at 25 Kpsi so Im leaving a little on the table. If a 255 hardcast at 1050 to 1070 fps isn't enough, I figure I just need a bigger gun, anyway

I enjoy letting friends fire one of my Supers. Boom.....big grin...."I gotta get one of these!"

I have heard of using .45 ACP in a Rowland, but I'm just not a big fan of the case depending on the extracter holding it in place. I'd also be aware of a carbon ring developing in the chamber.

Agree with your comments. Not a fan of it hanging off the hook either, but that is how Rowland chambers his barrels. The 460 chamber was way deep. Got a bit pissy when I brought it up with him.

You bet Vic, my new 45 Super Springfield Garrison has a ramped barrel, when i had it apart dropped a round in, it shows great casehead support, i could mostly get buy with standard WW 45 ACP brass with 200grs at only 1250, i wont load BTTW either, we all have bigger guns if need be, 454C and 500 Linebaugh are just a couple pegs over on a safe door.

The BOOM and big grin is exactly the way i lost my first 45 Super, it was built on an all steel 5" Springfield Trophy Match, was bracing off a back porch post shooting rocks on the bank of Wifes brim pond 90 yards away when Big Bobby pulled up, now big Bobby lives Big, has a wad of cash in his pockets about the size of his belly, when that guy see's something that sparks his eye, the hundred dollar bills come out, when got a sufficient pile loaded on the bbq grill, i went in the house and got the rest of the loaded ammo and a leather holster, he drank 5 beers in about 10 minutes, shook my hand with a big grin and left LOL!

Great story!

I've thought about a bigger revolver than the .44 I presently have, and the Casull is one to consider, but a big .50 would be something to behold.

A friend was considering a FA (I think it was FA) in .500 JRH, but hasn't bought one yet.

I'd do a Big Bobby if he did. Though I doubt he'd sell it, leaving me to find my own. I'd fire it, get a big ol' grin on my face, and the search would be on!

Gzig5-I've had communication with both .460 Rowland inc. and Clark Custom and was never made to feel like I was irritating the Clark folks at all. Great people to talk with.

Huntington conversion Freedom Arms M83 to 500 JRH. Way more gun than I can handle any more, but enjoy it with moderate loads too much to sell.
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Back to orig thread -- here's my Clark 460 Rowland conversion:
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Also have an HK USP with Rowland conversion but lost the picture. Gave it to my son for backup while bow hunting elk. It's loaded with Cutting edge 200gr flat nose mono metal bullets using Longshot at about 1,350 fps.
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Used the HK with Super level 230s at 1,075 - 1,100 fps before converting to Rowland.

Paul

Nice!

Yessir Vic, i concur ; ]

Damn nice irons Paul, i wouldnt sell that FA either, i shoot 460 and 530gr bullets from my 500L at only 1000-1050 fps too, i know that'll get it all done, as would your 230's at 1100.

Well, the corn barrel i hung to shoot pigs off of with my 45 Super is covered up with deer, we have no acorns this year, cant make myself blow a buck deer out of a corn bucket, i may have screwed up my deer season here at the house trying to bust some pigs LOL!

I'll just still hunt the rest of the mountain, maybe i'll run onto a nice buck.