Long and ultimately probably not interesting to a lot of people but I enjoyed it for the history and some of his talk of what they used, why etc. Interesting talk about keeping it wet, even in dusty environments. He also, obviously holds both Springfield Armory and Caspian in very high regard. Caspian especially for their frames/slides they were providing Delta armorers (and later SA).

I like Larry Vickers. He has gone through some tough times lately, I wish him the best in recovery.

I'm generally a Larry fan too. Would love to take one of his 1911 smithing classes. In the video he mentioned that Delta was shooting 1m rounds of 45acp. That's nuts. Have to believe he knows a thing or two about the platform.

I like him too.................but for the most part, the stuff he gets & the support from SA & Caspian are not readily available to you & me.


MM

Caspian big/small enough - advanced enough to offer bespoke metallurgy for small runs of frames? He talks specifically about their strength. The SA part, IIRC in the video - was about team guys buying off the rack SA's for him to build them pistols on as well.

I get I'm not getting SA support/pricing he got from their custom shop - my impression tho was that they used their parts, basically off the shelf and were happy with them.

IIRC, Caspian gets their castings from Pine Tree Castings (a Ruger subsidiary). They probably ARE bull-strong, whether it's needed for a 1911, I can't say.

Good video clip. Vickers obviously knows his way around a 1911.

I remember reading a Ross Seyfried article, he recommended running 1911’s wet enough at least for range/competition use that the oil would spray on his glasses for the first few rounds fired.

So are those castings strong?
As strong as forged?


AND THEY ARE OFF!!!
😉😉😁😁😁

LOL.

How about MIM parts?

Nothing at all wrong with any parts from SA, but really, I see no difference if compared to Colt or Wilson or Harrison or Ed Brown or ????? so long as they're not MIM.

Smith & Kimber use a lot of MIM.

MM

Holy crap.
Full flamethrower!

I'm glad he mentioned stainless on stainless galling problem. More of a problem with 10mm 1911's all stainless.


Mentioned here a few days ago in another thread. \/\/\/

This might seem ridiculous to some here, but It shows it's ugly head on "some" Stainless 10mm 1911's.

Galling becomes a problem between slide and frame on some brands when they are new. Stainless on stainless galling is real. Use a good lubricate on the rails until the gun gets a good break-in. If it's bad, you might even have to use RIG gun grease for awhile on the rails. A little goes a long way. Especially in cold weather.



...and run them wet.

Vickers is a good man.

Do not worry the galling problem occurred in 1970s to early 80s affecting companies like AMT. Stainless 1911s made now do not have this problem.
There is no need to compromise by settling for 10mm in 1911. There are numerous choices now: S&W, Glock, XD, SiG (with SAO action option?), Tanfoglio.

At least with Ruger or Caspian frames, you can get plunger tubes "cast in" and they can't get loose or fall off. It's not a common, serious issue, but it does happen from time to time. I kinda like that aspect. I have a Ruger 1911, it's a solid, good gun, but frankly, I like my Springfields better.

And why is that?

MM

I'd ask - does it have to be? Taking Larry at his word and I generally would - 1m rounds of 45ACP shot by Delta in 1911's (unknown if that's a year or what) and he can't remember a single Caspian frame crack or issue. Could it possibly "not crack" more? I don't know.

Either the Springfields shoot better, or I shoot them better, one or the other. The Ruger actually has a better trigger and sights than the Springfield's triggers, too. It shouldn't matter a bit, and the better trigger and sights should make the Ruger the better shooter, but for whatever mystifying reasons, that is not the case. As far as that goes, I've got a couple of Colts that are humbled by the Springers, too. And a couple of RIAs that humble the Springers................

I'm guessing you aren't tuned into the "Cast vs Forged" debate?
Or the gnashing of teeth Lemming referred to with his MIM comment?

Mostly BS. Virtue signalling crap from old nitwits who fight any change.




It worse than Stihl vs Husqvarna.
Cast vs Forged can go back and forth.
There are caveats......

At least with saws,
Husky is easily the best.
Even though Stihl is darn good!😁😁😁😁😁😁

Good thing you're around to keep everybody straightened out.

Smith & Wesson MIM safety..................still say MIM's being cheap ass is bullschitt?

I'm gonna call BS on your comment.............I work in the metal industry & there's no way that MIM has the strength & wear resistance of tool steel & forged steel.

Does it work? Yeah, more often than not, but in hard used applications, no, not compared to machined tool steel or forged parts.

And you can bet the farm on Vickers not using any MIM parts on the modified / reworked / updated 1911's.

MM

Why do MIM parts work well in so many guns, machine parts?
Turbines and compressors on jet engines.


But not 1911s?

Conflict due to old designs vs characteristics of MIM?



If you are a metalurgist, shed some honest light on the topic please.
It is something often brought up in these discussions, but I've never
seen any anti MIM guy explain it. Just the Pro MIM folks throwing
it out there.



I dont dispute the superiority of billet or forged.
But hell, you can find arguments about which of those are superior.


For the most part, my posts were tongue in cheek,
laughing at the whole dam fight.

My 1911 has more MIM than I like.
Thing works fine, and is a range toy.
If it was envisioned to be a serious gun, it would get a few hundred dollars
of parts installed by a local 1911 guy.

I have personally experienced MIM parts failures twice. Once the magazine catch on a Kimber 1911 broke into several pieces and fell out of the gun. The second was an MIM extractor hook that broke off. If possible I'll replace MIM when and where I can.

You said it. Kimber cheapens everything they can.

I've seen new Delta Elites jamb up at their first range session. The owner cleans the new gun up to make it pretty, then runs it almost dry with their Hot loads.


...and to keep the fight going... I'd venture to say nobody forges a frame/slide better than COLT or their suppliers.

I bought a Springfield TRP thinking it was mostly a custom gun, boy was I mistaken. The guide rod was beating up the front of the barrel lugs and binding the barrel link. Closely examining the entire gun I could see the MIM mould lines on most every part on it. I replaced every part in the gun except the slotted trigger with Wilson, Brown, and Cylinder&Slide parts. Fitted a Kart EZ Fit barrel and bushing. I have a lot more confidence in the gun now, knowing everything in it is actually forged. Anyone interested in buying a once used plunger tube staking tool? Maybe a safe edge file used once that fit the barrel? Mule Deer coined the term rifle looney but there probably needs a good term that can be used to describe looneys with handguns.

I bought this in moment of weakness. The deciding factor was the fact that is is military pistol, therefore, I assumed it would be reliable
and durable. It is reliable with JHP ammo, but the finish is not durable. It is stainless steel under yellow coating.



I read the following parts are MIM: magazine lock, sear, disconnector, thumb safety, grip safety. This does not concern me at all. I am 100% convinced it will go off every time I take safety off, grip the gun and pull the trigger. I keep it because it is the only gun I own with night sights and rail with light.

My biggest reason to change all the MIM parts is most of my handloads are +P. If I was a good enough shooter to compete in bullseye type matches where accuracy was most important the MIM parts wouldn’t bother me. I carry the gun for work, I’m an armed guard, I’d like to feel that my gun is as tough and durable as can be built.

MIM parts?

What manufactures of 1911’s use the most?

I assume SA does on their cheaper models. Kimber?


I have one 1911, it’s a Sig.

I think almost everyone making production 1911s is using some MIM parts these days. I have no issue with them, but yes, they can break if they get used abusively. I've seen forged stuff break, too.

I don't worry about them, if a part breaks, I'll replace it. I have several 1911s, and will swap one pistol for another, until I can get the "broken" one back into service with another part. For me, anyway, I'm not going to worry about it.

If you don't want MIM parts, you'll probably have to buy a Baer, Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk, or Alchemy Arms pistol, those run very high into four figure prices. I don't know if Dan Wesson's have any MIM or not.

Dan Wesson does not use MIM parts.

If ya own a Toyota, the engine has MIM connecting rods in it.

What's this got to do with a 1911? Not much really, considering an internal combustion goes through a gazillion more cycles, stresses, & heat changes than a 1911 ever will.

Same logic for gun oil. Motor oil stands up for the engine, it'll damn sure suffice for a gun.

MIM is great or terrible like any other process. It depends on who's doing it.

From my very limited experience, the MIM failures I had came within the first 1000 rounds. My guess would be if an MIM part is going to break that is likely to happen pretty early on. If the parts make the first 1K rounds they are probably good to go the distance.

Yes, it's very true that MIM quality is very dependent on who produces it.

MIM rods, aircraft engine parts, medical devices, etc., are all tested by Xray, magnaflux, mag particle inspection for cracks or porosity, 100%, so defective parts are almost nil getting used & installed............not so with gun parts.

And yes, I agree with MOGC also............MIM tends to fail early in life with no warning, no preliminary cracks, no deformation. When it goes, it goes with no warning.

MIM can be good but really should not be used for parts such as slide stops, for example. There's just no doubt that for hard, frequent, continuous use guns, forged parts have a less likely to fail scenario.....................but for the everyday Joe that shoots 3 boxes of ammo a year in a 1911, most will work.........until they don't.

The 1911 is a very different animal than a Glock which also uses a lot of MIM parts, with a generally very much lower failure rate. Or maybe they just have better suppliers, I dunno.

MM

Not a big deal, just replace them. This is a Colt 1911A1 WW II repro made about 20 years ago. I swapped out the cast and MIM parts for forged parts that I have in my GI parts stash. I wanted a more "correct" 1942 clone (except for the WW1 long trigger, which is more comfortable), but the forged parts also make for a better pistol. I now have a WW II repro that's more like the originals, all forged steel and a Colt. Too easy.
Bob