OK, I have looked at Hornady's latest reloading book and I would like to hear about what other's say is the TOP DOG in the ballistics concerning these two caliber pistols.

Now I have one fellow, telling me that that .357-Sig has out done the 10mm in tests performed on glass and car metal. Well, lets hear it from those who really know shall we. Center stage is all yours Gents!

The .357 SIG is a .40 S&W necked down to .355� to try to get .357 mag revolver velocities in a 125 gr. bullet. For the most part, they probably succeed.

The 10mm is a straight walled case that uses a .400� bullet to velocities somewhat below the .41 mag. The full power 175 gr. 10mm Win Silvertip is about the same as the somewhat attenuated .41 mag 175 gr. Silvertip.

The .357 SIG is a high speed light bullet. The 10mm is a bigger, heavier but slower bullet. The cartridge is also longer at .45 ACP length where the .357 SIG is 9mm length, so the grip of the guns in 10mm is longer for and aft, basically the same size as the .45 ACP.

I generally stay away from cartridge debates. Off the top of my head a half-dozen factors are more important for self-defense.

That said, the .357 Sig couldn't carry the 10mm's jock strap. Sorry, but I don't know what else to say - the list is just too long.

Agreed! I will take the larger diameter most of the time!

Well after looking over the ballistics and sorting out all the BS given, I too have come to the conclusion that the 10mm is the varsity player while the .357-Sig is still on the B-Team!

I am going this morning to pick up another 10mm GLOCK 20 (full size) pistol and a KEL-TEC PF-9 for the wife in 9mm. Going early as the heat is going to be 98 degrees some say.

Whitworth-1, I did check out that DoubleTap web sight and thanks for the Link. I will be ordering some of that ammo for sure very soon.

You are welcome, sir! Keep us posted!

Simple. As far as handloads go...

light bullets

357 Sig 125 jhp 1450 fps
10mm 135 JHP 1500 fps

one is 35 cal the other 40 cal.

Heavies

357 sig 147 1250 fps
10mm 200 gr 1250 fps.

Enough said!

The 10mm is the real deal, a superb caliber killed by political correctness. The FBI original adopted the 10 after the Miami FBI shootout, proving once again what a lousy caliber the 9mm is even with HP rounds, but it's recoil was to severe for the quota females they were forced to hire. So the 10mm "light" was created, aka 40 S&W. The 357SiG is a fine round as well, but just not in the same league as a 10. That's too bad, the 10 is all but dead. jorge

So the reports that I read from the FBI tests that were unfavorable toward the 10mm in shooters "with small hands" was politco-speak for "women can't shoot it"? Go figure.

prexactly...jorge

I dunno, Gents. The original FBI 10mm was the S&W M1076 with a 4-1/4" barrel. A great pistol, but with full power loads that's a handful for most shooters.

The 10mm "light" is the reduced load the FBI went with but still using the 10mm case. The .40 S&W was developed since a shorter case could duplicate 10mm "light" performance in a smaller handgun.

Almost all 10mm loads are "light" nowadays. Double Tap and Buffalo Bore loads are two exceptions. Comparing factory loads, it's not uncommon for .40 S&W to actually outperform the 10mm.

Trust me, it was...jorge

Yep, me too. That's makes two of us that are honest.

Jorge-1.....I know what your saying is very very true, as I had a long talk the other day with an FBI agent from Houston Tex.
He told me the same thing in so many words!

Well, today I picked up a GLOCK 20 in a 10mm and 2 of those new model KEL-TEC'S PF-9. They are lighter than the P-11 but the first thing I noticed about them besides their color, was that the trigger pull was at least 2-lbs lighter and more crisp.

So is the 10mm a bitch to shoot, or is it simply a man's gun?

Well, of course I'd like to think it's a man's gun because, I have a Glock 20 and, I need all the self affirmation I can get.

Frankly, I don't find it much different than shooting the Glock 21. Recoil is a little stouter but the real difference, to me anyway, is the sound. The 10mm has a distinctive 'bark' that I kinda like.

Most factory 10mm is very similar to factory .40 S&W, to the point of making a guy wonder why he bought a 10mm in the first place. Judging by the gun range, there are plenty of 10mm shooters that don't know what they have and ooh and ahhh over nothing. The numbers below are from a test barrel:

Federal 180-grain Hydra-Shok (4-inch TB):
10mm - 1,013-fps
.40 S&W - 1,022-fps

Nope, I don't have the data backwards. The picture clears up when a guy touches off some full power 10mm.

Buffalo Bore 180 gr. JHC (4-inch TB):
10mm - 1,338-fps

I think full power a 10mm is similar to full power .357 Mag. The latter can be fired in heavy N-frames down to alloy J-frames with the fun factor becoming less and less as you go. In 10mm an all steel Delta Elite is one thing, a Glock 29 is another.

Almost every shooter's speed and accuracy are going to suffer shooting full power 10mm, so the target should justify the sacrifice.

Nah, come shoot my double-action .475 and .500 Linebaughs and it's all mild after that......LOL! They don't kick so hard, but they do let you know that they have gone off. I can see how some folks can't shoot them well.

Let's just say I can't shoot a .454 Casull. A gov't .45 is no problem for me.

I have a near matched pair of Glocks in 29 - 10mm and 30 - .45acp. I find the 10mm recoils a little faster but the difference in felt recoil isn't that much if I am using .45 +P ammo, which is not much different the standard stuff really.

In comparing the model 29 to the model 20 over my Oehler 35P, there is 50 fps between them with all the loads I have tried so far.

JW

Hatari......Bitch yes! I have about a half dozen in my kennel and all have more bloodlines in them than the Queen of England.

This morning the wife and I did go to our shooting club and shoot those 2 new KEL-TEC PF-9's and my GLOCK 20 in 10mm. The PF-9's were more accurate than the last KEL-TEC we purchased, the # 11 model and the trigger pull was a bit less too. The accuracy of one of the KEL's was around 2 inches at 15 feet with cheap Blazer FMJ 115 grn bullets. The 2nd KEL-TEC shot around 3 inch groups at 15ft slow fire.

Now came the true story for the KEL-TEC's! I then paced off 6 feet and inserted the clip ready for action on the target. At the whistle I came to a combat stance and fired on target with a two handed hold on the pistol at the target as fast as I could pull the trigger. The results were that I managed to place 7 shots into a torso area of 8 inches everytime out the gate with both pistols. No aiming just point and fire on target, pulling that long trigger pull as fast as I could. Now at 6ft away, hitting all shots on target is a plus in my book. I believe that even staying inside a 9inch pie plate (as torso target) is still good enough for any muggers or car jackers on the street today.

Now when I aimed those sights and brought the pistol up to eye or nose height, the groups size shrank considerably to a little over 4.5 inches. We are also pleased with the accuracy and handling of both are new KEL-TEC PF-9 models.

The new GLOCK model 20 was a shear delight to shoot! I managed to put 8 out of 10 shots into a 2 inch bulls eye at 15ft right out of the box. I shot several groups of 10 with this pistol from 6, 10, 15 and 20ft. Now at 30ft using a table rest, slow fire and shooting at a 6 inch Orange color bullseye, I put another 8 shots in the center of the orange and 2 shots just to the right by 1.5 inches. This GLOCK 20 impressed me using once again cheap Blazer ammo. I am very pleased with this new addition to our pistol collection.

OK. We're talking the .357 Sig vs 10mm. No comparison in my view. The 10mm is a cartridge that can be found in auto's that will crossover to hunters handguns and have a 15rd mag. To compare apples to apples, the 9x25 Dillon is made from a 10mm case (I have the barrel exchange) and is 500fps faster than the .357 Sig. Good luck.

OK. We're talking the .357 Sig vs 10mm. No comparison in my view. The 10mm is a cartridge that can be found in auto's that will crossover to hunters backup handguns and have a 15rd mag. Mayhap a little heavy for defense, but as mentioned, a man's gun. To compare apples to apples, the 9x25 Dillon is made from a 10mm case (I have the barrel exchange for my Glock 20) and it is 400fps faster than the .357 Sig. Good luck.

Cro, I am talking about a similar setup for a G20SF in the long tube .357 SIG thread. Thinking a Lone Wolf Long Slide and 6-in. barrel would smoke.

What kind of loads have you come up with for your 9x25 and what kind of accuracy& velocity are you getting?

Killed any critters with it?