This probably a worn out question but...



I've been trying to decide on which versatile bigbore handgun to buy.



I'm hunting with a Ruger #1 in .300 win mag (amoung other rifles), and want a side arm bigger than my .357mag's, and I have been carrying my Sig, in .357sig lately. I'm heavily loaded with .358 cal pistols and rifles, and molds.



What's better for a bullet caster?



I'm leaning towards 45 cal.(45 Colt, 454 Casull or ?), over 44.mag because of molds that can be used in a host of great 45. cal guns. Isn't this a great example of versatility vs. a 44 magnum?, or is the 44 mag still a better choice?



I want protection from dangerous game, as I will eventually be hunting in many parts of the county, and maybe abroad someday, and having a packable bigbore, that can also be used for straight handgun hunting would be very cool. I always look for multible uses if possible.



But what cal., make, model, and size would best fit this bill?

Ruger, Smith, D. Wesson, BFR, Taurus (FA's too much $$,??



It's not been easy, trying to make a descicion.



Thanks in advance for any thoughts........!

SW - You'll get advise from more experienced handgun hunters than me but for what it's worth, I'd get a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt. I haven't been read a new reloading manual but my old ones give two .45 Colt loads. One for old revolvers and one for Rugers which are much stronger.

I'm not sure if Ruger still makes convertible .45s with two cylinders .45 ACP and .45 Colt. That might fill the bill.

First of all, the idea of carrying a backup handgun while rifle hunting is not clear thinking in my book. I'll bet money I can reload a #1 from a finger held extra round and fire it as fast as I can draw a handgun, get it on target and fire it. I've done lots of hunting, etc. with .44 Magnum handguns. What's more, it is far tougher to hit anything, under stress with a handgun than with a rifle. Unless, of course, you are right on top of the critter.
Frankly, if it can fight back, I would choose a repeater, or have somebody back me up.
In handguns, I tend to favor the S&W's for hunting simply because their single action triggers seem to come out better. With a heavy handgun, a first class trigger will make or break your shooting.
Ruger makes some excellent handguns. If you need something tough, I'd definately go for a Ruger Blackhawk or Redhawk of some sort.
I suggest you shoot a hot loaded .45 Colt or a .44 Magnum before you buy one. The .44 Mag class wheel guns can't be shot well by 9 out of ten pistol shots. A good alternate, BTW, is the .41 Magnum. Plenty of power for anything reasonable, and 15% less recoil. E

Well Eremicus,

You're probably right on the backup carry issue... But I figured it's a good excuse to buy a nice bigbore wheel gun...:)

I've been eyeing the Redhawk 45 Colt 5.5 stainless, and it looks like a very nice piece.

Is the 45 Colt softer on recoil because of a lower pressure load compared to the 44.mag? I love Smith and Wesson, and have some very nice .357's with wondeful triggers, but I'm worried about the strength of S&W with the bigger caliburs. But, the bad trigger on a Redhawk bothers me.

What does a trigger job cost?, and can the 45 Colt really be loaded to rival the 44. mag when it comes to dangerous critters?

I've known lots of guys that shoot and load .45 Colts. You can load them up to the .44 Mag levels, but everybody that publishes data says don't. 20-25,000 psi yes. 36,000 psi, like the factory .44 Mag ammo, is not a good idea.
You can do very good things with a .45 Colt loaded at 20-25,000 psi. Get a copy of Elmer Keith's old book, Sixguns by Keith. He talks alot about the old .45 Colt and how effective even the factory 250 gr. RN bullets can be. Push a good cast bullet of 250-260 grs. 1000-1100 fps. and I'd put it up against anything resonable.
The Smith .44 Mags got a bad rap because too many idoits had to load it up and over the listed maximums. Many don't understand that substituting one 250 gr. bullet for another is not going to result in the same pressure load, or that adding just one more grain of powder is not going to increase the killing power at all as a practical matter. But it can easily beat the gun up badly over time. I've got an old, 4 inch, .44 Mag. S&W that was made in 1967. I've shot it over 8,000 rds. Most of it double action. Almost all of it the old Keith load of 22 grs. of old style, not the new, 2400 powder and a 250 gr. cast bullet.
The last time I shot it, with some old Norma steel jacket HP's, it put 3 into 1.25 inches at 25 yds. It's had the clylinder bolt replaced and the rear sight lossend some over the years. But that is all. I'd buy another in a heart beat. The trigger breaks at exactly 2.5 lbs every time. Show me a Ruger that can do that reworked by anyone and I'll buy one. E

Smith and Wesson pulls at my heart strings for sure. My 70 series stainless Mod. 66 6" is solid as a rock.

I have a gunsmith friend that says on the new cast trigger/hammer S&W's it's very difficult to do a trigger job, be cause the cast looses it's hardnening quikly when worked, and there's not enough of the hard material.

I called MagnaPort, and they say the do tigger jobs on the new S&W's, and the new ones don't go out of time like the old ones do, and they (old models) are harder to re-time. So, I guess if I go S&W 44, I need to find one with a good trigger.

I like the Idea of casting for the 45 Colt as I can use the molds for other guns, but bad triggers do not make me happy.

Thanks for your input.

No doubt about it the S&W has the best trigger. Even reworked my Blackhawk never really got close to a S&W.
I carried a 629 for a few years as a duty gun. That was in the days when personal handloads were allowed. I shot a 250 grain Keith at 1000 fps. Recoil was well within limits and the load was accurate as all get out.

I also shot a large number of hot loads through the 629 and never had a problem.

As for the backup when hunting. I'd have to say I think its a good idea. You are right about doing the job with your rifle but I'd be concerned about the rifle becoming disable just when I needed it most. Heck it don't eat any hay as they say.

But I go armed with a pistol 99% of the time why not when hunting?

For deer hunting at close range the standard pressure .45 Colt has all the knockdown and killing power you need. For defense against big bears you can load it up to something even better than the .44 Magnum, but make sure you have a strong revolver like a Ruger or a Cassul. In standard Peacemakers or clones you cannot load them up hot.

My backup revolver is a Vaquero, 4 5/8", SS, 45Colt. Its easy to pack or carry horseback. I've shot three large black bear and other game with it and its been very effective, although the longest shot was about 30 paces.

I chose the Ruger because it can be loaded with 300gr XTPs and outperforms my M29, 44Mag, 4", though I doubt a bear would notice the difference. I prefer the stark simplicity of the Vaquero and appreciate the stainless version in the rain and snow. Its an excellent tool that always goes with me to the backcountry.

THanks Handloader...



How is the trigger on your Vaquero?



I really like the looks of the new Redhawk 5.5 stainless, and with Hogue rubber grips would suit me fine because I'm used to S&W's.



You guys got good tips, for an old dog... (well 44, ain't to old I guess).



So,



We've got bear, cougers, wild bore, and black tail deers, here in Kalifornia... right out my back door too.



I've been invited to hunt in Pennsylvania, Montana, Wyoming, and Oregon... and a fishing trip in Alaska also.



My long arms can handle all these critters, but alas... I need the wheel gun that I can carry along as bkup, and a 5- 6.5 barrel w/the extra weight doesn't bother me.



I'd just like to be able to hunt with it also, and I cast my own for the most part, but definately reload my own.

If that 300 magnum got you into a fix the big bore handgun ain't gonna get you out , lest you save 1 round for yourself.
Now with that said go with the 45colt in a Ruger. you can load it up to give a 250 gr bullet 1300 fps with no problem. 300 grs can come close to that. My everyday favorite load is 9 grs. unique and a 250 gr.cast swc. gives close to 1000fps ,easy to shoot and accurate as well.

If you are looking for back-up against dangerous game such as the grizzly, the biggest, baddest is the best--and for me that is a .454 cas FA with a 6-inch barrel. It is a high quality piece worth every bit of it's price. But Eremicus is correct in that a second shot with the rifle will trump any hand cannon. But I have also talked to a couple of bear-encounter survivors who wished they'd had a heavy side arm. Chances are you will never use it, but a short-barrelled (ease and rapid draw) .454 casull throwing a 335-grain slug has my vote. Steve

Why Dam...

what a comforting thought... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

well I spose I should of added that a bigbore handgun is a much better choice than a hastily gathered hand full of rocks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If you opt a single action Ruger, consider a Bisley style grip, or a Hogue replacement grip. The small Blackhawk grip is uncomfortable to me even in .41 Mag wit heavy loads.

My next big bore will be a 5.5" stainless Ruger Redhawk, .44Mag. Loaded with Garret 330gr hardcast would be my choice if I seriously thought I might need to fend off a bear attack.

MM
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp


330-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST LONG-HAMMERHEAD AT 1385-FPS

THIS 44 MAGNUM AMMO IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN RUGER AND DAN WESSON DOUBLE-ACTION REVOLVERS, AND THE GARY REEDER ULTIMATE 44 (5-SHOT) SINGLE-ACTION REVOLVER. THIS CARTRIDGE IS TOO LONG FOR USE IN FREEDOM ARMS REVOLVERS.

ENERGY: 1400 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 28; MEPLAT: .320"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 40,000-PSI; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .255; TRAJECTORY: +2" @ 50-YDS; ZERO @ 100-YDS; -7" @ 150-YDS

Marlinlover most all states have a minimum barrel length that can be carried during hunting season so I would forget about the 5.5 inch Ruger and go with at least a 6 inch barrel. Most all bear attacks I've ever heard of in the lower 48 happened at night in a tent, If you're thinking of going to Alaska I'd just take a repeating rifle. As far as takeing your handgun to foriegn countries as a backup I'd check with some of the guys who hunt in Africa, Canada, Australia or where ever and see if you can even take it without going to prison. I've seen several cats in this country and never felt threatened, especially when carrying a hunting rifle. If you just like packing a sidearm I'd take a 6 inch or longer 357.

Marlin lover I can't say what the deal is in other states , but here in Wy. if you use a handgun against biggame it needs to generate 500 ft.lbs energy at 100 yds. The 5.5 barreled guns carry nice not as easy as 4.5 but much handier than 7.5.
I just wait to see what mood I'm in before I decide which one I carry got one of each and a couple more, But the hot loaded 45 colt is my favorite.

Marlinlover - the trigger on my Ruger SS Blackhawk .45 was not too bad from the factory. I tweaked the trigger return spring to lighten it, and have left it alone since then. It's not super, but good enough for defense against close up large bitey things. Or so I hoped. After I saw a big ole Brownie turd for the first time, and some 8" wide paw prints, I felt woefully undergunned.

By no means is the recoil of a stout loaded .45 shooting 300 grain bullets measurably less than a .44 mangleum. So I have to second MontanaMarines comments about going to the Bisley grip frame. Ruger made a special run of .45 SS Bisley Blackhawks, and I'd look for one of those. I think they are also available in .44 mangleum as well. If you prefer fixed rear sights, there's the Bisley Vacquero.

Regards,
Scott

I love 'em all and have been using .22 LR to .44 Magnum to .45 Colt for backup and hunting since 1952. Have fired handguns with a lot more whomp than anything you've mentioned here (.45 Winchester Magnum and all but the lightest of Lee Jurras's "howdah pistol" cartridges -- including the .577 Jurras), and my choice for my own use, in the applications that you're most interested in, is the Taurus .44 Magnum with a 12-inch barrel, loaded with the Keith bullet and a smidge less than the maximum charge of 2400. Hard to beat but easy to shoot.

Now why would I recommend anything else to anybody else?

Marlinlover, get yourself a man's handgun. An encore in the pistol setup in 30-06 or 300 win mag in a 15" barrel. lol. tom

"A man's handgun?" A single-shot is a fool's handgun, in the applications we're discussing. I have a Contender with seven barrels, but I wouldn't be caught dead with any single-shot handgun as a back-up piece.

Or to put it another way -- I'd expect to be caught dead, sooner or later, if I were fool enough to count on a single-shot (two-handed) handgun as my back-up piece in a sticky situation.

Question: how many who've commented here have had to use a back-up handgun on a dangerous animal? I have -- more than once.

In 1960, my .44 Magnum Blackhawk was enough to put down a bull moose that attacked my wife. My .44 Magnum Redhawk (1981) was enough for one Keith bullet to put out the lights for a 350-plus-pound wild boar. I fired two warning bullets close over the head of the moose but then had to go for the brain. Couldn't've gotten those rounds off fast enough with a single-shot handgun, Fortunately, one warning shot from the Blackhawk was enough to make a bear turn and lope for the nearest cover (Alaska, 1959). I didn't dare think that only one bullet would be enough for the boar -- was of course pleased that it was enough -- but glad too that I'd been well equipped in case it hadn't been enough.

Doc no need to get testy. you are the only person I have ever heard of that really used a backup pistol. tom

Ken...



I bow to real life experience...



44. Magnum Redhawk,...or... 45 Colt Redhawk....or .....44 Magnum Taurus......or.....44 Magnum Smith and Wessson..........?

....or... what about those .480 Taurus's?, that looks like a beefy slik handgun.



If it doesn't have the recoil from hell, then I could master shooting it well.



I dunno, I'll probably look for the best deal that comes along on a bigbore, then roll with it............:)

...and (everyones eat'n dinner or tired of my thread so I'm gonna keep writting)

...That Raging Bull in .480 6.5" I heard is a real good shooter. Comfortable recoil, and accurate. But it's from Brazil.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I wonder how the triggers are on em?, I wonder how strong they are.

They look nice, and would fill my needs for backup/hunting power, but I HATE buying cheap stuff especially fireamrs (which I don't).

... any owners choose to confess..............................<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Marlin gotta say go with the Ruger. Just personal preference from shootin them for more than 30 years. 45 colt wil do what you need. I shot a 2000lb charolais bull at about 10 yds that was intent on doing me bodily harm. put that slug between his eyes and he didn't tear up anymore horses,dogs or pickups.

??????????????

Color me puzzled.

I don't understand why straight, plain talk makes you call me "testy" when I'm not. If I were, you wouldn't have to interpret the tone of my posting. It'd be clear to everybody for two threads on either side of this one that I were pist.

I own seven of the new Taurus revolvers and have just ordered the eighth. All seven and the two that I've borrowed and returned came right out of the box with excellent triggers.

For a number of recent years (but not now) both S&W and Taurus were subsidiaries of the same parent company, and a lot of knowledge and technology flowed both ways. Also, I understand that a recent Taurus factory worker suggested a slight but significant modification in the trigger mechanism, which smoothed and lightened the pull.

Taurus now owns -- and makes guns in -- the modern Brazilian factory built there by Beretta to manufacture Berettas for military contracts. Thus this very old, very experienced company is making guns on the newest and best manufacturing equipment.

Two of my new Tauruses are .44 Magnums -- the Raging Bull with 8-3/8-inch barrel and the Silhouette with 12-inch barrel. I bought both because I could not persuade Taurus to make a Raging Bull with a 12-inch barrel. (I suggested calling that one the "Range Bull.") I haven't given-up the idea of rebarreling the Raging Bull with a 12-inch barrel. I like the Raging Bull's frame but would prefer the even longer barrel.

I've had a good number of handgunners try these Tauruses -- especially the triggers, which they all rated excellent. I ask 'em "What would you guess that I had to do, to get that trigger like that?" After they've guessed or "given up," I tell 'em -- "just took it out of the box it came in."

A carry gun for the field has to be both (a) powerful and (b) pleasant-shooting enough to encourage a lot of practice. The cartridges more powerful than the .44 Magnum are fierce enough to discourage or at least diminish practice. For most shooters, including most experienced handgunners, they promote more flinching than development of skill and accuracy. The .44 Magnum, in my experience, confirmed by most of the experienced handgunners I know, is the best big revolver cartridge for this blend of crucial criteria -- (a) adequate oomph for stopping big nasties and (b) easy-shooting enough not to be too unpleasant for adequate practice.

I've shot (with both hands) several big cartridges that made the same handguns with a .45-70 barrel feel almost like a .22 Long Rifle by comparison. I didn't flinch (hit what I aimed at), but none of those -- with all their whomp -- would be my choice for quick, short-notice shooting with only one hand.

You know Taurus offers a lifetime warrantee on all their guns whether you are the original owner or not............! Now that's a warrantee I like.



I think I've made up my mind.... Taurus "Raging Bull" 454 Casull 6.5" bbl in Stainless Matte finish.



My reasons, after all the great input from the forum members here are:



The feedback from owners has for the most part been excellent on all accounts... quality, accuracy, recoil, customer service.



I like the option of having the 454 power when needed, but I understand I can shoot 45 Colt if I clean the gun before going back to the 454.



This is a tremedous advantage, as I can work up in skill to master more power, and have tons of load options. Also, I like the idea of having a bigger cal. gun to be able to shoot comparable hot 44mg/45 Colt loads comfortably.



I wanted to go .45 Cal because of casting for other firearms such as the 45/70, 45 ACP, etc. I can use the molds for multiple uses like I do with the .358 (35 Rem., 357 mag, 38 special, .357 Sig).



Trigger and action smoothness has got to be there. I know I wouldn't be happy with beautiful Ruger, that had a dog for a trigger. All my firearms have great triggers except for my Mini-14, and that's gonna cost money to fix, but I love Ruger with a passion. My #1 300 win mag (circa 1978) has a perfect trigger, w/AAA wood, and is a sub-moa tack driver with Remington Core Lokt 150 grns right off WallyWorlds shelf. I haven't even bothered to reload for it yet.



Size and weight, is right in there, and it is a damn good looking peice except for the ugly red strip on the grip. Much like the Smith, I'd be rigth at home with using this baby.



Strong double locked up cylinder.



FA's out of my budget. S&W (my love) I'll save for an old 44. mag some day. Rugers trigger question... and some of them not shooting to well, equals extra cost- I don't want to deal with if I had to right now, no matter how awesome they are.



The warrantee... I can buy a nice used Bull, and be covered. Who besides Leupold does that?



Well that's that... until I run into a nice Ruger, that I can't pass up.



Happy New Year! all... and, it's my 12 year wedding aniversary today.



Marlinlover

E - btw I carry a backup while shaving or walking in the garden or going to buy gas. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

N

I generally carry one of my Ruger Bisley Vaqueros, with either 260 or 300 gr. JFPs ahead of a stiff load of 296. However- If I'm feeling like I need to carry extra horsepower for hogs in Texas, I break out the short-barrelled .454 Casull, with 300 gr. JFP's. It's heavier, but there's no doubt that whatever get hits well will stay down. Here in CO, it's not just cats and bears, but lately, pit bulls seem to be making a dent in the human population. Probably, the SW 1911 would suffice for the dogs.

A lot of practice is as important as the right choice of revolver, cartridge, and load.

The right kind of practice is the only kind to consider. The wrong kind of practice is as bad as none at all and maybe worse.

� You have to be able to grab the gun and shoot it accurately as a pure reflex.
This means wearing it in one carry rig as often as you wear anything other than your pajamas. Then you'll eventually become able to lay your hand on it without having to fumble for it.

� You must develop one or the other -- or both -- of two techniques for fast shooting that gives-up no accuracy for the sake of speed.
Practice both techniques. Ideally, master both. Start with either technique, but practice both until you've become good enough at both to determine which technique is better for you.

"From the hip" -- stand facing a target (paper plate, at first -- something smaller later -- clay "pigeons," say) at about ten yards. Hold the gun with both hands, with your elbows snug against your sides. Don't look at the gun. Stare fixedly at the target and concentrate on how you feel the gun pointing. Try to feel it pointing at the target -- and concentrate on how that feels. Fire a round and note which way and how far off it hits. Adjust the felt position of the gun to compensate (as well as you can guess by feel), concentrate on the new feel, and fire another round. Note the direction and distance of the miss. Adjust to compensate. Concentrate. Fire. Adjust. Fire. Adjust. And so on. When you find the right felt position that points the gun where you look, continue concentrating on that feel and firing repeatedly (not too fast) to imprint that feel on your lower brain.
Each new session will be a new beginning, but you'll make some progress anyway -- especially if you don't leave too long a hiatus between practice sessions.
When you've become the local Wild Bill Hickok for targets at that angle and distance, practice standing facing away from the target, then turning and firing as quickly as you can acquire the right feel. Again, each new session will be a new beginning, but you'll make some progress.

"Aimed" (pointed) quick fire: -- stand facing the same kind of target. Stare fixedly at it. Focus on the target. Don't look down at the gun. Grasp the gun with both hands (at first -- one-hand shooting will be a later step), ready to shoot. Concentrate on how the gun feels in your hand. Quickly bring the gun up to the line of sight from eyeball to target. Spend little or no time searching for a sight picture (in time, you want to be able to "point-shoot" with either a quick, unconscious aiming or complete independence of the sights and without even "sighting" down the barrel). Fire. Note the miss. Adjust with the gun held low (without looking at it) and concentrate on how it feels. Raise the gun to line-of-sight level and fire.
Again, advance this practice by standing facing away, turning, raising the gun, and firing.

By training your eye-body coordination to shoot without reliance on technology (sights, etc), you're preparing yourself to be able to shoot accurately, on a split-second stimulus, without having to waste time on thinking, deciding, aiming, etc. In the kind of situation that's most likely to require accurate use of a back-up carry piece, you may very well have no more thinking time than that seemingly long but really very short period between (a) the instant that your brain sounds the alarm and (b) the instant when you must shoot or suffer.

Ken,
Thanks for the primer--it is definately worth printing off. I find that after the technique is mastered, switching between different hand guns is not all that difficult; so I do most of my practicing with a .22. That is not to say the others are neglected--my 'truck gun' is a .357 mag. so I practice with it almost as much. Since the .454 Casull was obtained primarily as a back-up for dangerous field situations, practice with it is generally one-handed (my paws are somewhat oversized, and strong--probably due to all those holsteins I milked the old-fashion way back when). Reduced loads are used (45LC in .454 brass) for most practice, but each practice session ends with at least five full-powered field loads drawn and fired one at a time from various positions. My goal is to put each of these last five bullets into a 3-inch circle at 12 feet; and a 6-inch circle at 25 feet. Admittedly, I have a ways to go!. Steve

marlinlover

Specific to the Vaquero trigger, it breaks clean at 4lbs. I bought the pistol used several years ago. Someone had put a birdshead frame on it and it just had the right feel for me.

Howdy Ken

This is a combined comment regarding useage on dangerous game and shooting positions/practice that you posted later in the thread.

I've twice used my Vaquero (45 Colt/300gr XTP) in situations where I felt it was advised; both were black bear, one wounded by a rifle bullet. It did the job, although, I am sure there would have been similar results with other handguns in the same situations.

The natural pointing ability of the Vaquero was what initially attracted me to the revolver. I wanted a short barrel (4 5/8ths), something easy to carry if hiking or on horseback. During the actual shooting incidents, eventhough I practice a lot with this handgun, I was surprised by the stress and pleased that the Ruger was simple enough and I was familiar enough with it, that the shots came easy and were accurate once I got it out of the holster. I fire this handgun at the range weekly, about 50 rounds a session.

What was difficult was simply getting the Vaquero out of the holster (amazing how adreneline affects the process); I hadn't done but a few presentations, good enough to become used to the routine -- at least I thought so. Now, when I am at the range, I always draw from the holster and dry fire practice regularly at home.

Replicating the degree of stress present in these situations is challenging but my shooting buddy and I get together a few times a year, taking turns drawing and firing while the other is shouting or using a variety of innovative methods to try to confuse or distract the shooter. Our "instinctive" shooting has improved a lot as well. Probably the best instructive program for us, however, was a training session at Gunsite. It was money well spent.

Fine information Ken...

I'm gonna start practing with my .357 Sig first, then my 6" Model 66 stainless 357 magnum.

The when I get a 454 Casull, start with 45colt loads, then work up to the 454.

I like to hunt with my (Cabela's Rainsuede) Parka shell, and a large hunting vest (Cabela's guide vest orange camo) on the outside, if it's not raining, on the inside if it is.

I can carry binocs and gear, food and water easily, and still have mobility, and also be ready for changing conditions.

I find that a belt holster does not work with this setup, so what I need is a holster that postions the handgun between my knee and hip.

This way I can easily draw without anything in the way. I don't know if the Uncle Mikes people makes this, or I may have to make one myself.

This would be the place to draw from and practice for me.

Great post's everyone!

marlinlover,
I carry my casull in a cross-draw position on my left side on the belt. The bear spray is on my right. A cross-draw is easier for me when wearing heavier clothing than the other way. As I have never had to use either gun or spray, I cannot say the positions are 'field tested'. Steve

The cross draw may work with my setup...

where can I see one on the net?

I agree Ken. The contenders are so awkward that he would not be able to get at it when he really needs it. Plus, the guy is going to be carrying a rifle, where is he suppose to put the contender ? A revolver is the way to go.

Conrad

I have to disagree with you on the 12" barrel. It just makes the handgun harder to reach, carry and get into action. A 5"-6" barrel makes a lot more sense.

Also, I would use the garrette 44mag hammer head ammo for a backup gun if I needed it to deal with big beasties. Of course, your definition of a backup gun may be different than mine.

Conrad

You should take a look at my post on new 357 mag ammo. This ammo lets a 357 mag approach the power of a 41 or 44 mag. You have a lot a experience with 357 mags, you might be more effective with one of them than a new gun. Worth a try anyway.

Conrad

marlinlover,
I use a standard Uncle Mikes sidekick (nylon) in size 8 and wear it on my belt on the left side. Steve

Have you tried one and found it so? Or are you speaking merely from preconceived ideas about such a long barrel?

I have tried several, at some length, and have not found them as awkward as you and I first assumed that they'd be. Granted, they don't pack like 2-inch snubbies, but once you pack 'em right, they're surprisingly handy.

I understand the preconceived bias completely. When I first learned of the Tauruses with 12-inch barrels, I hooted and jeered aloud. My bias was then at least 50 years old and as strong and definite as you'd expect of an old coot in his 70s. But the fellow who told me about 'em let me borrow and use one on several months' loan. My very first actual handling flushed all my old bias away -- completely. I returned the borrowed 12-inch .22 and immediately ordered a new one (.22 Long Rifle) -- and later added a .357 Magnum and a .44 Magnum with 12-inch barrels. I love 'em.

The only problem that I've noticed is that they do threaten to become addictive! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ken...

What do you think about that Smith & Wesson .500 cannon?

Inquiring minds wana know........... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ml - I've been rethinking the subject after following the responses you've gotten. BTW great conversation starter, good job.

I agree with Ken - the single-shot makes no sense as a backup as good as they are for the hunting gun.

The only other observation I would make is that the barrel must be relatively short (6" or less). I used to hunt with a Super Blackhawk 7.5" .44. The longer barrel did retard drawing speed.

I recommended a Blackhawk initially. Here's where I've changed my mind. A double-action revolver would be best. And size would be a consideration. Maybe a S&W would be a good choice for size considerations.

I still like the .45 Colt properly loaded for backup.

Great thread.

Had a similar question/issue, and after reviewing responses here I am opting for a S&W 686 357. The only decision left is whether to go with the 4 or 6 inch barrel. Pros and cons associated with each.

Decisions, decisions....

Greg0320,
You will have another decision to make if you ever have to use that .357 mag in a dangerous animal situation--what to do with that LAST round. Then again, maybe the decision will have been made for you by then. Steve

Ken,
That's the first thing I thought upon seeing the taurus for the first time; and, that bias is the reason I carry a 6-inch .454. Prior to the casull, I carried a super blackhawk, which has an overall length 2 inches longer than the casull (I consider overall length to be more important to handling ability than simple barrel length). I'll admit the blackhawk, with its larger, after-market rubber grips handled as easily as the shorter casull. However, the redhawk, which is only one more inch longer (3 inches longer than the casull) feels awkward to me, both while carrying it and in rapid deployment manuveurs.
You talk about 12-inch barrel tauruses--it is definately a different gun, but my 10-inch barrel BFR in .45-70 is a full 6 inches longer (oal) than the casull, and is about as hard to carry and deploy as would be a 20-pound ham.
I've practiced some with the Raging Bull and while it is somewhat more difficult to carry and to deploy, it is a bit more pleasant to shoot. (I do understand that 'pleasant' is not a word used to describe shooting the .454 casull.)
Recently I had a chance to shoot the S&W 500--10 times--in my view, it is no more punishing to shoot than the 6-inch casull. I could get used to it! I haven't handled it enough to get a feel of my ability to deploy it. Steve

Steve

I am assuming that you are referring to the potency of the 357 which is a whole 'nother story.

In my situation, wild boar hunting or deer/antelope out west requires a gun capable of shot shells for rattlesnakes, and 38/357's for varmints or larger game, as well as possibly putting down a wounded boar.

The 357, given that it accommodates 38's, will also double for a defense pistol for my wife whenever I may be away on business (she has a Kimber 38 Super in case I have the 357).

Bottom line, more power, whatever the situation, does not equal the most potent weapon. Shot placement, with a weapon you are capable of shotting dead on, is always more important.

Greg

Well after a long search, high and low... on what handgun to buy, I finally made a decision today and bought one... an Uzi full auto!!!



Just funnin'......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



But I did break down and buy a Taurus today.



I bought a 454 Casull 8 3/8" barrel Raging Bull...<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



They had a SRH 454 long barrel 7.5" and it was pretty nice, but it didn't quite feel right to me. The trigger was pretty decent, maybe a little to easy, as dry firing it almost felt like I didn't know when it was gonna release, or released to soon.



But the Taurus felt like a form fitting glove, smooth as silk in the action, and the trigger was superb. Not to easy, and I could feel right when it was going off, then crisp as a fresh graham cracker.



I wanted the 6.5" barrel, but when I held the 8" it really had a nice balance. With the huff and puff of the 454Casull, I figured having that extra 1.7/8" of extra barrel would make it easiyer to master.



It would be different if it felt barrel heavy but it doesn't, not one bit to me. This made the 6.5 feel a little barrel light, and the 8 just felt better.



Another item was rasing the gun to firing position. The Bull just seemed to come right up on site for me. The Ruger SRH was not as easy for me to pull up and line up on site. Because the rear site seemed higher, then looking to the front site was not as a straight line as with the Bull.



Viewing down the Bull's sites and barrel is an easy straight shot, and I could line up the sites much faster. Just pointing the Bull seemed easy. I think I could learn point of aim well with this Handgun.



I'm sure I could quickly get used to the Ruger, but the grip, balance, and overall feel was better for me with the Raging Bull.



I'm going to design a semi tacticle lower hip holster for this baby. As a kid I was heavy into leather work, and I still have alot of my tools.



Yes it's long, but it just doesn't feel that long, and with the right, positioned holster, and lots of practice, I know I will be able to draw this baby as quik as a 6.5". With the fine balance and longer barrel... once I get it drawn even point shooting this handgun will defintately be learnable.



I've read reviews and post on forums that the SRH that size in 454 kicks damn hard, and some shooters replace the grips right away. The grips did not feel comfortable in my hand. It may have been a good shooter also, but not all of them are. Everyone that has a Bull posted, and the magazine reviews written report they are very very accurate.



So that's my decision for a backup/hunting bigbore.



Come on and let me have it, with the yay's and nay's on my decision,



I'm a big boy, I can take it..............<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Written in a SHOOTING TIMES Handgun Review article:

The key to what I call the "shootability" of today's heaviest power handguns is their application of recoil management technology, primarily in the area of grip configuration and muzzle brake/compensator applications. For example, I do not consider guns like the original-design Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum four inch, with its light-profile barrel (by today's standards) and hard-checkered wooden grips, or the relatively lightweight Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull with its unported barrel and noncushioned wood-insert grips to be particularly "shootable." Both are very good, very functional tools, but after about three rounds fired in succession, you want to put them down. On the other hand, you can shoot guns like the Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull with its rubber shock-absorber grip insert and heavy-profile full-lug barrel with integral muzzle brake or a Magnum Research BFR .475 Linebaugh single-action revolver with Pachmayr grips and a good aftermarket muzzle brake all day.

I have to admit that I have not shot a pistol with a 12" barrel except for a contender pistol. I have fondled a 9" super redhawk and it is too long for convient carry. 12" has to be worse.

How do you carry your pistol when holding a rifle ?

Conrad

Taurus has paid a lot more attention to recoil than Ruger. The Raging Bull is ported and is so heavy that it feels like they have attached a boat anchor to it.

Conrad

I'd go real light on the powder when I used those .45-70 mold bullets in that .454. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boat anchor?... which RB barrel are you refering to the 8 3/8" or the 12"? If there was an anchor on the 8, I didn't feel it. I could hardly tell the difference in weight compared to the SRH 7.5".

I'm still wavering somewhat this morning, and was thinking of maybe changing my mind. It would be because of the lighter weight Ruger, with the 7/8" shorter barrel.

But if the Ruger was not as comfortable to shoot, what would be the point?

Shoot some serious reply's at me... MAKE MY DAY..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a 6 1/2 raging bull 454 I think it is a little heavy.

It shoots awesome the recoil is very managable. The heaviest loads I have shot are the 360 cor-bon penetrators.

It is a little heavy to me for all day carry.

I plan on carrying it in a cross draw holster while bowhunting.

I would like to get a taurus 460 stainless in 45 colt to carry while rifle hunting or fishing. Cor-bons 300 grain at 1300 would be a good pick.

Dude, I own a Colt Anaconda, Ruger 45 long colt in a redhawk, and a Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Csaull. The taurus is were it is at. The magnum rounds for that gun hits like my Kinght 50 cal muuzzel loader with max powder and is almost as accurate. It will drop anything in north america with one well placed shot at 100 plus yards.
My friends hot load their 45 long colts and they still can't touch the casull. Plus it will shoot their ammo.
As far as choosing a make go with the taurus. It looks better than the ruger. kicks less because of porting, and is as or more accurate than those stupid looking super redhawks, plus the redhawks feel like [bleep] in your hand and tha taurus feels great.
I cannot say anything bad about the anaconda other than the fact that it is a 44. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

ar15a3...

What barrel length is your 454casull Bull?

6"1/2

grego320,
You're right--the .357mag will work just fine on rattle snakes, expecially with shot loads. Steve

an hmr17 will work well well on snakes too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'll have to agree with you on all accounts about the RB,

THe only thing with me is I couldn't get the damn 6.5" here in California because it's not DOJ aprroved.

Fricken bastreeds, so I got the 8 3/8". I could have bought a used one out of state, adn had it sent to an FFL here, but I don't like buying with out it right in front of me. The 8 felt great, and I'll pack it.

I just read that you did buy a Taurus, congrats. You will love it like a child ( maybe not that much). What finish did you get? I have the polished SS. Have you shot it yet? Better were some ear plugs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks ar15a3...

I bought it last night, so I got 10 days to wait. I got the Stainless Matte finish. Fits my hands beautifly, and I agree ... the SRH did feel like (...) in my hands.

OOOO boy, you wait. your gonna laugh when you can blow up softball sized rocks at 25 yards.

Waz a'matter with you guys?? A Colt's 1908 Hammerless .25 ACP is all you need. Easy to carry, too. Just put that little .25 FMJ pill in the left nostril of a charging bear and Voila! Problem solved.

L.W.

A knitting needle in the same spot -- if it's long enough -- is quieter but somewhat limited in effective range. Also, it takes longer -- and a lot more skill and technique than just a strong shove. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A knitting needle! I hadn't thought about that, Ken. Now that is what I call "sporting"!

And it doesn't weigh much, either.

L.W.

Fire - In - The - Hole........!

I got home with Mr. Casull late last night, 8-3/8" Raging Bull,

and you know I had to rip off a few anyway...

Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claws-454Casull 300gr, $43.95 a box of 20 (got em to through them in on the deal).

(on the box) Velocity: 1630 fps

Muzzle energy: 1760 foot pounds


I shot at a stump, about 36" in diameter. The blast was tremendous. It

litterly echoed through the canyon, like thunder... for what seemed at least

10 seconds after each shot....

The fire burst out front was impressive, but the recoil was not bad, not bad at all. Damn sure felt like someone let off a bomb- 5 times.....

I've never shot anything that powerful in a handgun. Today, I looked at the stump,
...the rounds penetrated right through....

Man, what a thrill...