Since one member just can�t believe that any gun other than a Glock works, especially a 1911, I would like to open up a thread for all to talk about the handguns you have that WORK perfectly.

Oodles of Hi Powers have been 100% (My first Argentine was a POS though, and no matter what I tried, couldn�t make it work)
My current S&W M1911PD
A large number of 1911�s I�ve owned over the years. Only had one that gave me problems, a Series 70 Colt�s that as it turned out Colt�s only rough cut the chamber and never ran a finish reamer through it. Easy fix, 100% since then.

Other guns:
Taurus PT92 (very impressive, would eat anything)
Sig P226 & P225 (flawless)
Mauser C96 (flawless with any ammo, but there were no JHP�s in .30 Luger)
CZ 75 (would eat anything)
Beretta 92 (would eat anything)
Ballester Molina (100% with Winchester Silvertip)
Astra A-70 (garbage disposal, would function perfectly with anything you put in it; couldn�t get it to malfunction)
Polish Radom (preferred Federal 9BP for HP�s)
Beretta 1951 Belle (functioned well with every JHP I put through it)
Walther P38 (worked great with Federal 9BP and NyClad HP�s)

Worst gun I ever owned: Action Arms AT84 � Made in Switzerland by Solothurn (outstanding manufacturer); very nice LOOKING copy of the CZ 75, but as it turned out, had major problem with heat treatment on parts, Broke two safeties, two magazine catches, and a trigger bar. Gun shot like nobody�s business and when the parts were all together, it functioned flawlessly.

So what say you?

My Contenders never failed to feed.

Other guns that have NEVER jammed or failed to fire.
Or failed to feed:

Walther PK 380
S & W M&P 9C

( knock on wood )

Never had any issues with my SRH either Scott!

My XD40 is quite reliable. With 5000 plus rounds down the pipe, I've yet to have any issues. Good enough for me.

This one !!!





I have other Smiths/SA Abilene 44 mag...they all shoot.The 1911 is an original Colt,carried it in SEA and still shoot the dog chit out of it,shoots ball and even my cast 185 gr.SWCs no problem!!

These are all lies, and you all are liars! Eveyone knows that Glocks are the only reliable gun made. They never blow up, especially the 40 cal glocks, they love lead bullets and eat them all day long without issues......heck, you can even throw them like a frisbee and they still work. I honestly dont know why other handguns are still being made.

Pretty sad when someone is stupid enough make accusations like that..might as well tie a hamhock on your azz,walk through the jungle and hope you don't get bit!!!

Used to have a Ruger P95 9mm. 5500+ rounds, zero failures. Not only did it never fail, but something about the cycle speed and feel of the gun almost made it feel like it was impossible to fail. I can't quite describe it, but there it is.

I have or had three different third gen Smith 9mms. Total round count on all three is probably 7000+ (most of that on two, not so much on the other). Total malfs: one failure to go completely into battery (coincidentally during my CCW qualification shoot, go figure) that was probably an ammo issue as that was a couple thousand rounds ago on that gun.

Other guns with less rounds (all at least in the higher hundreds, some in the thousands):
Smith 4506, zero failures
Smith 4516, when I bought it, it had the unusual problem of trying to eject the slide stop on the last shot on a mag, causing the slide to hang on the slide stop. After a trip to Smith, zero failures.
Smith 469, got a great deal on this one, found out why after it seemed to decock itself every couple shots, after I cleaned the goop out of the firing pin channel, zero failures
Cigar box 1911, zero failures if you don't count my "I blowed up my 1911" experience, and it's on it's third amateur build iteration now, two of those after I blew the top end up.
Sig 239, zero failures
Sig 220, after I undid some lunatic's "trigger job", zero failures

Here's a couple I'd forgot I'd even had till I went back through my records, no idea how many rounds:
S&W 1911PD, zero failures
Beretta Cougar 8045, zero failures
CZ50, nasty little bitch, zero failures

So outside of one dirty gun (469), one bubbaed gun (220), one blowup (1911, most likely ammo), I've had the issue on the 4516, which was possibly a manufacturing defect, that was fixed, and one malf one one of my Smith 9mms, over many thousand of trouble-free rounds of non-Glock shooting.

XD ... As I've seen referenced in the past ... "The gun that out-glocked the Glock" or "The Glock's Glock" ...

Neither are my creations ... but I do like my XD9 ... cleaned it about 2500 rounds ago ... it still keeps schucking and spitting.

I don't plan on cleaning until it jams ... its not my carry gun (but with a cleaning I wouldn't hesitate) ... Just wanna see how long it will run. ... just some real light oiling now an then.

Fantabulous lil gun

I guess Kevins panties are in a bunch...

I have owned Ruger P90, Sig 220, Two springfields 1911's, two Beretta's 92F and several Glocks that all ran %100.

To be honest though I sold one of the springfields to a guy I work with. It is a loaded light weight champion. He was shooting some off brand of ammo in it the other day and it jammed 38 of 50 rounds. Not really the guns fault but it did jam.

Dink

IMO, unless there is an inherent defect or major design issue, most any gun can be made to work just fine.

There's no magic in Glocks at all.

As for 1911, specifically, I'll put any of mine up against any Glock for reliability............besides, they look better too.

Not knocking Glocks, just saying they have no magic. Period.

MM

Well, my Gosh. Every handgun I own works perfectly, and I own approximately fifty, not one of them a Glock. Although, of the three Glocks I've owned, they all worked perfectly too.

That's because you've never failed to feed it.

Gun's other than a GLOCK that work ...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Believe It Or Not ... A HI-Point !!!

It works.

Springfield XD

S&W 3rd generation 9mm,ruger SP101 and J frame smiths

I've owned or shot just about every quality brand name pistol out there and had only two problems. A Ruger Security Six that didn't always fire and a 30 Carbine Blackhawk that just hated reloads. Not counting various junk autos like Sterlings.

Even some of the 'Saturday Nite Specials' were pretty good. Once had a Titan .25acp, bought for $25 that kept all it's shots on a paper plate at 25yds. It never bobbled and was my back up/drop gun for several years-this was in the 70's when the practice was considered reasonable.

I now have three 1911's,a Woodsman, two Smiths,a Browning, a High Standard, a P38 and a Glock all of them are just fine if you keep them oiled. I don't think the 1911 is the ultimate auto (tho I have 3) and I think the Glock is pretty good.

Mostly, this is a Ford, Chevy thing. If you like it, buy it as long as it's a quality maker.

O

I bought an older Para P-12 used, no idea the round count. It had a few issues early on. I went through and replaced mag springs and recoil spring and now have more than 1,000 failure free rounds. Does that count?

Have a Kimber that I have owned since new. Never had an issue with it. Have an LCP with only 100 rounds through it that is perfect so far. Had a Ruger P95 that was perfect for 2,000 rounds. Heck, I had a Colt Gov't 380 that was perfect for 1k as well.

The worst gun I ever owned was a Brolin Arms 1911.

Have also owned Glock Perfection too, a 23 and a 17.

I just knew someone would see through the ruse.

That's incredible, then why do you act as if the only gun that is worthy of consideration for defense is the Glock. Any gun that is 100% is 100%; there is not higher standard than 100% reliability. I just don't get how your mind works.

I have tried and tried to get you to see reason, and you just continue to make these outlandish statements, and completely ignore any evidence that doesn't fit in your little world.

And quit your sniveling, and childish remarks. Apparently your reading comprehension is just as bad as your critical thinking skills, because it should have been clear that the idea of limp wristing was decisevly ruled out. But you pick out only the details that interest you, and ignore anything else.

Besides late model Colt 1911's working well, I do think the P7M8 is pretty ingenious - and the ones I have shot were very accurate, and never jammed.

Browning HiPowers have been good for me. Ditto Sigs; I have shot P220's and P226's, and they worked very well. I am just not crazy about the action function. I'll say the same about the S&W 3rd Generation guns.

Heck, I once watched a guy shooting a Luger in .30 cal at an indoor range. Don't recall if it was a Artillery Model or just a 6" barrel model. The gun shot perfectly fine. The shooter, however, was struggling a bit with it - it seems the ejected cases were getting launched vigorously straight up, hitting the ceiling, and about one in three was coming back down and kunking the top of the shooter's head. He was developing quite the flinch.

That's precisely the message I'm trying to get across. See how quickly a reasonable person catches on? Thanks MM.

I have a H&K squeeze cocker semi auto in 9mm and it works perfectly, but a I am a 1911 dyed in the wool slut. I always have a 1911 in the truck or on my body and it all ways works. No muss, no fuss

Yeah those were pretty bad. I worked for a company that IMO was the WORST 1911 ever...Sadly, at one point I was factory warranty gunsmith for Vega, which were the worst quality 1911 I've ever come across. Vega used the same subcontractors as AMT and Randall, only Randall got first pick, AMT got second pick, and Vega got the crap that was rejected by everyone else. Every now and then, they screwed up and made one that worked, and if it worked, it was a good pistol. But for the most part, I still have nightmares of fixing crappy Vega's. Oh, but the Vega magazine is one of the best magazines of the '80's. I never did bother to find out who the sub contractor was for the mags, but they were damn good magazines.

This is why when I tell people I can make any 1911 work, most seasoned gunsmither fist offer their condolences, and then say, yep, if you can make a Vega work, you can pretty much make any 1911 work.

Believe it or not, but a Brolin was a Cadillac compared to a Vega, and Brolin's were pretty bad.

Colt Gov't Model 1911 purchased in 1969. As far as I recall it functioned perfectly until it was stolen in 1981. I hope it jammed and blew up in the face of whoever stole it.

Colt Series 70 1911. Worked perfectly even with my lead bullet reloads (H&G 200 gr. SWC over 5.0 231) and Speer 200 gr. flying ashtrays until the finger collet broke, then it jammed up hopelessly. Had to really crank on the slide to open it. Replaced broken collet with a solid one and it continued to run flawlessly.

Kimber Custom Target .45 - worked flawlessly even with my lead bullet reloads.

Every Rger Mk II I've owned (around 6, I think) except one, which failed to feed at least once per magazine. Sent it back to Ruger, they replaced the entire upper receiver then it worked flawlessly. None of these get cleaned or oiled or if so, very rarely.

German Luger, 1913 Erfurt, actually my father's. I only put maybe 150 rounds through it but it worked perfectly. Who knows, maybe the German officers who owned it prior to my father's acquisition broke it in properly.

Come to think of it, except for that one quirky Ruger all of my semi's have worked perfectly. There may have been a failure to feed once or twice but I can't specifically remember any.

Not a big semi-auto fan so except for a Browning Challenger and S&W 41, that's about it for bottom feeders.


However, Kevin, you gotta quit talking up those Hi-Powers. I've never owned one but just came into a little money from an estate disbursement. You got me thinking about one, that's dangerous...

Nothing new here, but my Beretta 92 feeds any ammo--yet to have a single issue with Win. white box, RWS, Federal, commercial reloads, police practice 147 gr. hollowpoints and Blazer. About 1500 rounds so far

Also, Sig 232 (.380 auto)--LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Walther PPKS--bought it used--about 500 rounds through it and not a single jam or misfire.

Ruger Sec. Six--33 years old (the gun, not me --I did have to send it back after 10 years (20+ years ago) when the cylinder would jam when it got hot after firing 25 to 30 357 rounds in a hurry. Has about 5000 rounds through it now and still going strong for bullseye and revolver pin shoots.

Thanks for mentioning the Beretta, that reminded me of a couple more. Had a Model 96 .40 cal. that was 100%.

The Kahr PM40 was also 100%

My Kel-Tec .32 ACP will occasionally fail to go into full battery on the last round in the magazine for some reason. Not always but sometime. A little push on the slide puts it into battery. Probably a big flaw that I should fret and sweat about, but I figure by the 8th round I'm already running away. I keep it around 'cause it's a good way to make loud noises and give me a chance to escape in the confusion.

Sorry Jim, but it's kinda my mission in live to be an "enabler" for anyone considering buying a new gun. If you get a Hi Power, do yourself a favor and pick up a set of Craig Spegel grips (they're VERY expensive), but once they're on the gun, you're just going to melt when you put the gun in your hand; nothing feels better than a Hi Power with Spegel's...it's God's gift to the Hi Power.

I think an AMT Hardballer was the first 1911 I ever bought, and it was pretty miserable. I recall it jamming up so bad once I nearly had to beat it apart with a hammer. Never have heard of an AMT that ran okay.

I have never said other guns were not just as good as far as reliability. For a true fighting pistol I believe the glock is superior to everything else for a variety of reasons. There are more accurate pistols, prettier pistols, and more expensive pistols out there (most of which I have owned at some time or another) but for a fighting pistol they get no better than a Glock (at this time).

You seem to think that some how I managed to scrape together $500 for one pistol and have never used anything else and you would be very wrong.

There are alot of pistol owners but very guys have shot under pressure, done shoot houses, done speed reloads or shot a pistol 2,000 times in five days with out cleaning it to see if the gun would do it. I have and in my opinion the glock is head and shoulders above the competition at this time.

As far as the name calling goes you started that chit.

Dink

Back in the '80's their QC was pretty bad, but I've ran into a bunch of Hardballers and Long Slides that worked. But finding the good one's was tough, because you just don't know until you shoot them. If you do find one that works well and is cheap, it's a good catch, because chances are it will run well for a long time.

One of my best friends has an AMT that works perfectly with ball ammo. He asked me to make it work with hollow points. Very quickly I found the relationship between the feed ramp and barrel throat was completely wrong, and was that way because the hole for the slide stop was drilled in the wrong place; subsequently I could never make that pistol work right with hollow points. So I told him to try it out with Cor-Bon Pow-R-Ball ammo, so he could have expanding ammo. It worked perfectly. Now he has a 100% reliable 1911 he keeps in his car. He paid like $250 so if it's ever stolen out of his car, he's not out much. It's stainless, so he doesn't have to worry about the finish; a near perfect car gun.

But unless you can test fire at least 100 rounds through an AMT, I'd never buy one.

My 1988 era Commie CZ75. My S&W M15, M19 and M60. My Ruger Blackhawk and Single Six. My Dad's P38. My brother's and BIL's XD 9mms. My FIL's XD .357 Sig. My buddy's Hi-Power. My nephew's Ruger MKII .22 RF. The Beretta M9s I've carried in the service. I've shot other handguns that work well, but not as much as these.

Expat

See: Rabid Glock Owner The popularity of the Glock vs. other guns is based soley on its price. As you stated other guns are just as reliable, more accuarate, prettier, etc etc., The only thing Glock is head and shoulders above its competition on is price(and its barely ahead there) what sells a Glock is the Glock myth, preached by people like yourself.

I wwill stick with just my carry autos, otherwise the list becomes too long.
Colt series 70 1911
Kimber Pro Carry 1911
Walther PPKS

I am a die hard 1911 fan, and there must be a reason a pistol has been around for 100 years and is still going strong.

Swifty

SIG 225, SIG 226, SIG PRO 2340, HK USP.
I see the orginal post did not mention wheel guns so i'll leave that for another day....

Pobably because it was the premeire auto pistol for the first 70+ years of its life with little competition from other auto, save maybe the hi power, but that was more of a caliber preference not which gun is better arguement. My opinoin is the 1911 will slowly and consistently start losing ground over the next 20 years as a lot of todays shooters will grow up shooting Glocks, XD's, Sigs, etc etc much as a lot of the older shooters grew up shooting the 1911 or some sort of revolver.

Its my theory that people like what they were raised with and for future generations the majority will be a polymer auto of some sort.......except my kids, lucky for them I have taste and carry Sigs

Love Glocks, although they feel like $hit in my hand. They're a no nonsense combat killing machine. That beig said, I did have a problem with a brandy new model 27 once.
I was qualifying with it when it went south on its 27th rd.
The recoil spring collasped.
First I went across the street from the range to a gun store in hope of aquiring a replacement part. i struck out. They stated that they had be getting a lot of cops coming in with the same complaint for about a week.
I then alerted the company, asking for a replacement spring. They sent two. I then asked why two. They responded with, " incase the replacement spring goes south too" Not a ringing endorsement if you ask me.
They later thanked me for notifying them, saying they had a problem with heat treatment of the retaining collar.

Here's the difference. When anyone else says something like that, they put a "for me" at the end. You say it's absolute, and for everyone. You have your own experience and despite the fact that many have said there is a whole world out there with different experiences, you just refuse to consider that anyone else could draw a different conclusion than you. You've cited things like people can't remember to flip off safeties, and when contrary evidence is given to you by many more than just me, you just completely ignore it.

I agree with you that the Glock is a great pistol. I disagree it's the best in the world for all situations and all shooters; the world of shooting is just far too broad to make such a statement about any pistol.

I agree, the 1911 will fade in the future for exactly the reason you state. Currently the 1911 is THE seller in the civilian marketplace, just look at all the different makers of 1911's (i can't count them all). But one day Glock will become the more copied gun, and then it, and it's knock off's will eclipse the 1911 in the civilian market. Currently my observation is that for civilian sales, the 1911 is winning a good 3 or 4 to one over the Glock. But in LE sales, the Glock and it's knock off's are winning at about a 10 to 1 rate over the 1911.

But the real future will be decided by what is chosen as the next service pistol. I think if the next service pistol gains more popularity than the Beretta, it will be the one that takes the market place, and my bet is it's some sort of Glock knock off, if not Glock itself. (I still say Taurus is the one to watch for the next US service pistol, they have engineering and manufacturing abilities that far outstrip any other handgun maker in the world).

Golly. lol

I don't like Glocks. I haven't shot one enough myself to form a firsthand opinion of their reliability. Certainly though, there is an abundance of evidence that they are one of the most reliable brands on the market. Seems like they are controversial. I saw them on sale for about $350 at Cabela's and thought about picking one up. Between Cabela's propensities for not having what they advertise actually in stock, having fine print in the ad that nails you every time and making you wait forever after taking a ticket, just to look at a gun, I guess I'll just have to look elsewhere. As much heat as they generate though, maybe I need one.

I agree with your take on Taurus, the OSS would have been a great contender. My obsevations are different than yours when it comes to the civilian sales, not saying you arent right, I've just seena different trend. While I will say the 1911 may be the best selling gun for "shooters", the Glock and other sub 500.00 polymer guns seem to be the leader for "average joe". People who shoot realize you get what you pay for and prefer something with a little class or whatever you want to call it. The average person who just wants a gun 9 out of 10 times will get a revolver or polymer gun.

For the average person to be told that the 450.00 Glock is equally reliable and holds more bullets than the 900.00 Kimber or even the 600.00 Taurus 1911, they take the Glock everytime. The average joe is sold on round capacity,looks and price. The shooter is sold on functionality,quality and "does this gun suit my needs for the particular task im buying it for".

I can always tell the average joe from the shooter, especially when looking for a CCW piece. The avergae joe will always ask to see the smallest gun behind the counter, his second question will be "how much?". Anyways, just my .02 based on my encounters with people and guns. Maybe its a sign of the type of people we associate with and come into contact with, I find myself around more "average joe" than "shooter" since I made the move to Iowa.

Warpig,
I cant agree with your last statement. Too many companies are getting into the starter price range for 1911 pistols.
This is an area that you touched on in a post above as the reason for Glock popularity.
Taurus PT series around here goes for around 649.00 and is a well made semi enhanced pistol, the new remington at at 599.00 MSRP is another. S&W got into the market, as did SIG with 17 models no less.
In my many trips to the range, I am seeing more and more people shooting these entry level 1911s than I do Glocks or XDs, and espescially in matches such as IPSC, and USPSA (IPSC is what I actively participate in).
The reason is that they worked for 100 years, and they still work now.

This ia a quote from an article by Dick Metcalf, of Shooting Times.

"All of which emphasizes why all the top pistolsmiths and spokesmen for Model 1911 manufacturers with whom I have spoken about the Government Model�s past and future are uniformly convinced that its long-term prominence is guaranteed for as long as firearms exist: versatility and adaptability. Among handguns, the Model 1911 is the most customized and customizable platform in existence. The list of calibers and uses to which it has been applied is essentially endless. It is a proven foundation for more different handgun applications than any other pistol design imaginable."

Here is the link to the entire article http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastpistolofCa.htm

But IMHO the paragraph above says it all. The 1911 isnt going anywhere soon!!!!!

Link to the 17 diffrent SIG 1911s http://www.sigsauer.com/products/ShowCatalogProduct.aspx?categoryid=25

Swifty

Warpig -

I know lots of people in the business, and even the low dollar 1911's tend to sell more than Glocks for civilian sales. As has been for the past 20 or more years, the bread and butter items in most gun shops are affordable 1911's and small frame revolvers like the small frame Taurus and the J frame S&W.

But all that is changing. Glocks, XD's and M&P's are now selling alot, and when added together probably even seell more than the 1911's. But still, most everyone I know in the business always has a good selection of 1911's in the shop, or they're just asking the customer to go somewhere else. The Rock Islands sell very well. But Glocks sell very well, and I expect will eclipse the 1911.

The small .380's are THE money item these days and pretty much outselling everything.

That, I can attest to. Reminds me of the "wonder nine" period.

Not much in terms of performance IMHO

Nope, scary part is people around here are buying them as their primary carry gun. They havent learned that there is more to CCW than just finding the smallest gun possible.

AMEN.........

Much of that trend is due to the fact that more & more new shooters (& casual CCW's) are coming into the market, they are somewhat afraid of the 1911 & other SA's, the sales people see that & steer them towards a supposedly "less complicated" weapon.

That for me is what is driving sales in the consumer section of the market.

Doesn't mean the guns growing in sales are better, just that the market & the buyers is changing.

I have no problem in using any of the newer, properly designed stuff, but for me, they just will never replace the 1911.

I grew up shooting it competitively, learned much about 'smithing it from some very high level shooters & armorers & handling it has just become 2nd nature; it fits me & my hand to a T & no matter what else is introduced, it will likely always be my favorite.

MM

Yep.

I tell you what,if you ever fire a BHP in 9mm or .40S&W with a great trigger job and Spegal grips,you WILL part with that estate disbursement money.

I started a thread a while back to try an establish some definition of "reliable". You and a few other guys replied, but the thread died pretty quickly. I don't want to read too much into that, but it's interesting a thread can generate hundreds of replies on 'most reliable handgun' yet when asked to define the terms it got real quiet.

Maybe part of the reason for that - we want to be able to say our choices are based on empirical values and sound method, but in the end we prefer handguns for much less scientific reasons, like faith.

That said, a handgun that works perfectly for me is as much about how it works as how reliably it works. Some designs might fire thousands of rounds without fail, but if I don't have faith in the design - no thanks. A couple examples that come to mind are Glocks and Beretta 92's. Both are decent pistols, but I don't ever want to wonder if today is the day that parts are gonna fly.

JOG, I'll throw in the H&K models without thumb safety. I personally am sold on the GlOCKS!!! We now have a total of 6 of those plastic ugly pistols that YOU can bet your life on and are extremely dependable too.

School is still out on the XD models, as they have not as yet accquired near a track record as GLOCK pistols or the H&K pistols. I have not forgotten about those Sig Sauer pistols but those come with a De-Cocking Lever and I have no use for that item on a pistol.

I have a bunch of autoloaders that work fine, although I admit I haven't run 10,000 rounds through any of them. These include:

H&K P7
Clark Target 1911
S&W M 52
Sig P228
Beretta 92FS
Browning HP

I have shot a Glock 19 and 30 but they just don't fit my hand well and don't point naturally - for me. By point naturally, I mean I can grab it with my eyes closed, raise it to eye level, open my eyes and the sights will be right there, or very close. Of the above, the ones that fit me best are:

H&K P7
Browning HP
1911
S&W M52

In that order.

Just off of the top of my head, every pistol I've ever owned worked fine with a few exceptions.
The two Lugers I had wouldn't always work with the milder US made 9mm ammo. An unmodified for lead wadcutter ammo like my Series 70/Mk.4 1911 wouldn't feed lead wadcutter target loads until I had the barrel hard chromed.
What I've owned would take up quite alot of space. Try two .22 autos, four .22 Revolvers, three 9mm pistols, one .256 single shot, four .38 specials, two .357's, a 10mm, a 41 magnum, two .44 Magnums and four .45 autos.
They all worked. But I'm also of the opinion that none would work under certain conditions. I've already mentioned inappropriate ammo. Rough treatment is another. Dirt, dust, and silt are still more.
The real trick to maintaining a reliable handgun is to know what to avoid that will render it inoperable.
The other thing, of course, is what works for you under the conditions which you use it. I pray that the day does not come that I get into a gunfight with a DA auto pistol. A DA revolver I could handle, but I'm not nearly as good with a DA auto pistol. Too much chance I'd fumble the controls or throw either shots No.1 or No. 2. I guess I'm to used to the 1911's I have. Yes, yes, I know. With lots of training I'd be OK. E

HK's have a decocker too.

Of the ones you mention above....I have used and owned several.....Browning HP...I had a Belgium model....NEVER a problem...wish I still had it....CZ75....way under rated...excellent weapon...I have 2 Glocks....a 9mm and a 10mm...goes without saying....they work...owned a Beretta 92Fs...no prob....and dont forget the FNP9....FN's are very good value for the buck, and work damn nicely! I carry one daily.

CZ's are the most underated pistol on the market today.

The one I had wasn't worth a crap. Even with high grade FMJ, it couldn't get through three mag fulls without a jam, and that after several hundred rounds of break in. Sold it a couple years ago. And yes, this was a real CZ75, not a clone. In fact, I have an Italian clone that works 100% with whatever I feed it. The real thing stunk.

It is not based soley on its price.

Take some of your buddies to a IDPA match and shoot your sig. The guys with the glock will out shoot you. Two guys with the same skill level the one with the glock will win aginst your DAK.. The glock shooter does not have worry about a long fairly heavy trigger pull like your sig DAK or the slow reset times of the sig. The glock shooter times will be faster and much more accurate. Try it.

Dink

Dink

Won't read the entire thread, but will just state, happily and without reservation:

H&K

I met a Minneapolis policeman who told me that he is satisfied with the Beretta 92 he carries. FWIW

The big trick with Lugers is usually the magazine spring, not the ammo. They work better with hotter ammo, but that's just because the hotter ammo causes a touch of a dwell at the top of the toggle stroke. If you replace the Luger magazine spring with a brand new, very stout one that will feed as fast as that toggle cycles, the Lugers will work pretty well.

And the guy with the 1911 will outshoot the Glock; that's why the SA's are in a different class. Otherwise Glock shooters would never win a match.

And in a game without a 10 round limit the 1911 shooters might be to busy changing mags. Who wins then?

Who really cares except the Rabid Glock Fans???????????????

MM

Hmmm. Got to thinking. A friend was a big Walther guy and he hated recoil. He bought a Walther PPK/S made by Interarms. It just would not function. Sent it back twice. Never fed reliably and he sold it.

I do recall a couple of friends who bought AMTs that had real problems and dumped them.

O

A wide-body 1911.

I have stated before the gun with the best trigger pull will usually win competitions. There is a big difference between a competion gun and a fighting gun.

When I talk about pistols I am always talking about a fighting gun. It makes little difference which gun is the most accurate at 25 yards when your trying to save your hide at 10 feet.

Dink

Outside of optics on open class pistols, what else ya got?

H&K 40 and 45 USP in both full size and Compact. Never had a 9mm but would venture to say they are as good as the 40s and 45s...

I feel your friends pain! I bought a PPK/S 2 years ago, based on reputation (used, but very few rounds through it) I had 2 usues with it;
1) It never fired one full mag without a jam and I tried brands of ammo's. so I started asking casually at a few other guns shops--EACH ONE OF THEM said it will take, and I quote "300 (or more) rounds to break in". I bought this as a CCW--no way I'll have a defensive gun that doesn't go bang EVERY time.
2) The hammer bit the web of my hand enought to draw blood after one magazine.

Luckily the shop had 100% return priviledges--I returned it and got a SIG 232. This gun is as good as the Walther was bad. Over 500 rounds through it, of 4 different ammos (including flat nose and hollowpoints) and not a single jam or misfire.

+1....... For my fighting weapon I want the one that I can hit the best with

Eyup, the entire IDPA organization and the multitude of 'service pistol' subdivisions of every stripe would be interested in Dink's opinion...or not.

IDPA is great place to see what works but I have seen them allow things that they shouldn't. In local matches I have seen guns with after market sights, trigger pulls of about a 1 lb, Holsters that don't cover the ejection port, pre weighted cover garmet.

The difference between a carry gun and competition gun other than optics. Light triggers, comps, ported barrels, mag wells, barricade shrouds (wings), ejection port lower flared, accuracy over reliability, extended slid release and mag release, etc. Some of those options could be used on a carry gun but some would be really hard to explain in court. If your target gun jams you get a do over if you carry gun jams you have problems.

Dink

have not read all pages here so may have already been said . i have a few hand guns that have been very reliable including glock xd beretta star but the most surprised buy bersa thunder .380 wow great little gun shoots more accurate than my sig. p232 and much more reliable that a walther ppk i used to have

Glock disagrees with you, as shown by their line of compensated/ported pistols. Since comps and ports are illegal in virtually every division a Glock would compete in, including all the IDPA divisions, Glock must be intending them for carry purposes. In contrast to John Browning's 1911, Glocks already have a lowered and flared ejection port, and an extended slide and magazine release.

By your own definition, Glocks are competition pistols.

What in the hell does a C series glock have to do with difference between a fighting pistol and a competion pistol?

Glocks do not come with extended slide release and mag release (unless the gen 4 does but I don't think so).

Dave Sevigny shoots a glock in the open divison. You know what that means. Not a damn thing about fighting pistols.

Like I said in my last post you can have some competion options on your carry pistol there is nothing illegal about it but you will have a hard time explaining them in court.

Dink

You tell me - you're the one that drew the distinction by stating:



When I asked you to explain the differences, you stated:



I give you the Glock C Series:



So is the Glock C Series a competition pistol?

KevinGibson: My Glocks work perfectly - when NEEDED to work perfectly (dangerous situations!)!
Do YOU disagree?
Why look any further?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

A guy can live on peanut butter and water. Why look any further?

VG - You're good to go, and I have no problem with your selection; a very sound selection. This thread is intended to provide evidence to those who ascribe some sort of super-abilities to Glocks. I have always maintained that Glock's are great guns, and I really believe they are. My issue is not with Glock, my issue is with those who would have you believe that a Glock is the ONLY pistol that is worthy of consideration as a defensive pistol. And then goes on to derride most any other pistol as woefully inadequate by design, to the point of spreading clear falshoods.

So I think you're well armed and made a very good choice in your Glock.

S&W M&P outGlocks the Glock, though. They did it better.

I've heard that malady (a blindness towards any non-Glock handgun) described as "Glockoma".

Outstanding. I'm stealing it.

good one
Bet they wouldnt drink a Colt45 either. Or is there a beer out there called Glock20?

Swifty

lol

Shouldn't it be spelled Glock-Coma?

I only know that my Glock 10mm suit me just fine and enable me to draw and get my shots on target vital zone. They fit my hand and have been very reliable.

Now to say that the H&K or the Springfield XD is not worthy of being usd as a CCW weapon. H&K has an excellent track record, just like the Glock......shool is still out on the Springfield XD. I have shot the pistol (several) and they shoot very good for me.

Anything that is mechanical can and will in time fail! Thus the reason for a good backup pistol folks. My Glock in the 10mm is a joy to shoot and recoil is not as bad as some might be lead to believe. I like the fact I can shoot a 165 grn bullet 1450fps and have deep penetration, delivering 750-lbs of energy to the target.

I have not read the entire thread, but I will take issue with the comment from Kevin about Glock shooters not winning against a guy with a 1911. That is simply not true. I have flat out hammered one hell of a lot of 1911 shooters in limited class and limited 10 with a bone stock Glock 21.

BTW, for the "anything other than Glock", I think VERY highly of the CZ75. If I was limited to 9mm only, a cocked and locked CZ75 would be at the top of the list.

CZ75's are fine weapons.

Every time people start comparing pistols I remember that shoot out in Ohio where 2-3 guys where not 20 feet appart, everyone emptied their clips and no one got hit.

Skills are important -

Kevin, I am going to try and compete once again using my sub-compact model 29 Glock in IDPA. I may have to back down to the model 19 in 9mm don't really know yet. I have thousands of 9mm brass and only 400 for those 10mm brass. I'll let you know how things for the old man go later.

I've never had a 3rd generation Smith fail to go bang, whether 4506, 4516, 4566, 4046,4013, 3913, 6906, what ever they just work. I've had great luck with my Ruger SR9, KP345, Smith M&P 45, XD 45, Kimber 1911 and others I can't think of right now. I've come to believe that most guns being currently made are pretty darn reliable.

The M&P certainly has better ergonomics, IMO, and everything I've heard from those few I know who've shot them alot is "Glock-like", time will tell. I was impressed enough to buy one and will likely get another.

Gotta disagree with that. Locally, the Kentucky game wardens are switching from the M&P .40s they currently carry, and going to Glock 22s, because they're having neverending fits with S&W and their new pistols. They just aren't working right, and the possum cops are fed up with them. They pitched a bitch and are switching to Glocks (they had been carrying S&W 4566s before the M&Ps came online). Kentucky's departments have had a very long relationship with S&W, so this wasn't expected at all.

Sigs. I have 2 and had another. They have yet to malfunction after thousands or rounds. My XD is flawless thus far. I had a Glock 17 that would FTF about every 500 rounds. Notice I said "had", 1st and last Glock for me. All of my revolvers are 100% as well.

Take a knee,

This is not directed at you, rather the subject matter at hand.

I currently am issued a M&P 40. While it is "ergonomic" I do not shoot it nearly as well as just about any Glock or 1911. While it may feel good in the hand, I have observed most people tend to choke up on the gun way too much and put far too much finger on the trigger. Most end up pulling the trigger with their first distal joint, which is not conducive to good accuracy.

What feels good in the hand does not always translate to tight groups on target. Personally, I do not care for the gun or caliber. I would prefer a brick that I can cut the x ring out of the target on demand, than something that feels good but produces mediocre results on paper.

I have an M&PL 9mm I've put about fifteen rounds through. I have a G17 I've probably put 15K rounds through (2500 on a Rogers Range last year). I filled the gap in the back of the pistol grip with black accraglass and sanded it down to have the same grip angle as a 1911. Got the idea from a tech article on Brownell's site. If I could only have one handgun, that'd be it, I'd miss my 1911, but I wouldn't cry about it. Time will tell about the M&P. It is amazing that it only took S&W about 20 years to come up with a decent replica of an Austrian washing machine manufacturers' first handgun design.

Life is too short to adopt a Block, I meant Glock.

Thank you for that well thought out reply. It definately contributed to the discussion.

I think the Sigma would be considered the copy. On the M&P they strived to improve the concept.

Regardless, joking aside I hate them. I will take a Sig any day.