i sold a friend a g23 a few weeks back.he was shooting today and after 24 rounds everything was fine. the 25th round was not so good. kaboom,the the blew right out of his hand. one scratch on his nose and a very black sore hand.the triggerbust to pieces,the mag was completly gutted out thru the bottom,the mag latch is gone,the frame broke. the ammo company says it was a overcharged 40cal casing. it split at the base and blew out the primer. glock says to send the gun to them for repair and they go after the ammo company for him. the ammo company has already offered a full refund on the 4 50rd boxes of ammo that he bought. i'm not going say what brand ammo it was ,if they take care of this the right way.

O U C H !

They sure that was not a triple charged case!

Dink

I think it would be a good idea to identify the ammo company and lot number.

It could save someone else from injury.

Looks like the pistol held, regarding slide/barrel lockup, and the damage was caused by the gasses escaping via case failure at the unsupported area of the chamber.

but I thought Glocks were perfect. Millions of rounds fired, no problems.

The 40s have a rep for that.

Cant help but think a steel or aluminum framed gun would have held up better.

More KA_BOOMS with Glocks than any other pistol on the market.

These pistol rounds are loaded with a case capacity of pwder than does not allow for a double charge.

Wow!

Are your freakin' kidding? Do you want someones eyes on your conscience?

How was the overcharge determined?

Are you saying the .40S&W doesn't have the capacity for a double or are you saying most manufacturers don't use powder for their pistol rounds, that is efficient enough to be doubled?

Because there is plenty of case capacity in the .40S&W or .45acp for that matter to double, depending on the powder and bullet.

my dad's 27 did that... and mine went down the road shortly after

glock and 'the ammo company' bought him a new one which he never took possession of just did a swap at the gun store for a 243

I am saying (with the powders used for full power cartridges) that if the case is double charged it will be too full to seat a bullet. If a handloader uses Bulleye then of course a double charge is possible

There are quite a few powders that will double charge (or come close enough to make your day exciting) a .40S&W with light-medium weight bullets (135-155).

Pull 2 bullets from factory loaded rounds and then pour the powder from both cartridges into 1 case and let us know what the results are

Can you tell us how the ammo company knew it was an overcharge? Did your buddy send them some unfired ammo from the same box?

Jwp475: Two things - YOU don't know anything about relaoding 40 S&W ammo obviously - AND I have been around and shot more Glocks than YOU will ever see in your lifetime and I have NEVER seen one go KABOOM to date!
Not one!
Something was catastrophically wrong with that 40 S&W factory ammo - NOT with the Glock.
Sounds like the ammo company agrees with ME!
Like someone else mentioned from what I see in the enclosed pictures that Glock held together pretty well!
I have NO plans what so ever to sell ANY of my Glocks as a result of this incident.
Maybe YOU could enlighten the rest of us as to which 40 S&W pistol YOU would guarantee that would have held up better under this circumstance?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Google Ka Booms you Dolt and you will find more Glock Ka Booms than any other Period

Apparently you ain't seen enough And we are talking FACTORY loads Einstein

No one can blame the pistol for coming apart with a double charged load.

I have seen pictures of some ruger redhawks that came apart with double charged loads. Hardly the pistols fault.

Dink

I'll bet that if you will pull the bullets from 2 factory loaded cartridges and the try to pour all of the powder into 1 case it ain't going to fit and leave room to seat the bullet

THER IS NO PROOF OF A DOUBLE CHARGE THE LOAD WAS A FACTORY LOAD

And a top secret factory load at that...

I've got to say that I'm afraid of Glock's at this point. There is no doubt that some of the folks on here have owned more guns than I have, but I've owned quite a few. Only one Glock, a model 20, so I am hardly experienced in Glockdom. I have said many times on here that I didn't like mine because every time you touched a round off it felt like it was going to explode. Now the 10 is a fairly high-powered round, but I've shot it in a number of other pistols, including the Delta Elite, which is not known for an overabundance of strength. It just seems like there are a lot of posted pics and anecdotes about KABOOM's with this brand. At this time, I don't ever intend to own one.

In the OP it is stated that it was a over charged case and ammo company has refunded the money on the other ammo they guy had. I am pretty damn sure if the ammo company says it was a over charged case they are damn sure it was thier mistake.

If you read the OP I don't know how you can take it the wrong way.

Dink

OP posted "Offered" doesn't say he has "recieved". The OP alos posted "overcharged round" does not say "double charged"
This is your first post and that is what I responded to.



I see you have changed from "double charge" to "over charged" yet none of that has been proven as of yet


Do you jump to conclusions when you investigate a crime?

I'm not a Glockophile...but I'm familiar with one major city that has used them for more years than I can remember, in .40 cal and with hundreds of pistols and thousands of rounds, they haven't had any kboom issues that I've heard about. I'll contact an officer/trainer to be sure, but considering the number or guns out there and the number of kbooms, it's got to be rare.

Still, my hands are more important to me than status symbols. So, I'll stick to the pistols I know don't have a potential issue.

Dan

guys,i talked to the owner of the ammo company yesterday and he plainly stated that the load had to have been to hot. he said he had know idea how that would have happened . i guess it does happen from time to time with all ammo companies,know ones runs anything at 100% ,there has to be some bad ones. we'll see what he does.

know, no, too, to

It's a confusing language.

Dan

I love my G20
exciting stuff there!

well the 40 is a higher pressure round i think on that we all agree and the the glock is not a fully supported chamber so with that the risk of this happening is incressed. now i am not a glock junkie but do have 2( a 30-45 and 31-357sig and carry one on a daily basis ) i know there has been some cases of ka-booms mostly with 40's and than 9's next in line but now days with the internet if it happens to 1 pistol it gets posted evey where and you would think half of them out there blew up if there was a major problem with this l beleive there would be a recall . glock tells you no reloaded ammo i will be the first to admit i do run my reloads(not lead)
for practic rounds cant afford to buy that much factory ammo i do watch for "bludged" cases and discard them that being said there is a lot of factory ammo out there that uses "recondioned" brass and i bet they dont check their brass as well as most handloaders combine that with a high pressure round and IF they had "reconditioned" brass and an over charge and a not fully supported chamber you get the idea but it could have been a defective pistol but not likley

Agreed.

I think most have heard of Glock kabooms before, but in its defense, other than the greatest handgun ever made,(1911), the Glock is probably the most popular handgun in existance today. Most other manufactures are doing there best to play catch up, in the polymer framed defensive handgun market.
Shooting can be a dangerous activity, I think manufactures try to make it as safe as possible, but accidents sometimes happen. Accidents and kabooms have happened with every type of firearm at one time or another for whatever reason. Statisticaly they will happen more often with the most widely owned types.
More poeple die on the highways then from firearm accidents, that doesnt mean im gonna stop driving anytime soon, not sellin my glocks either, just like driving a car, im gonna be as safe and aware as I can while doing something I enjoy. Just my 2cents.

He said he talked to the owner of the ammo company. Call me crazy, but if I call Winchester, Remington, etc... I'm not gonna get the owner on the line to chat. I'm betting this was a small outfit. Perhaps one of the many small outfits claiming to have the best +P+ loads and crap like that. Name the damn company. If they make it right, we can respect that company. If they don't, it's a good way for us to know to avoid them. In any case, if they can overcharge a .40 to the point it blows up a pistol (even a plastic one with an unsupported chamber), people should have that info. If they admitted to being at fault, you're not trash talking them.

But I bet you're not driving a Pinto with a full tank of gas.

I see the eggspurt on everything under the sun has spoken....should be a dead issue now.

You got that right. Dont drive a grand cherokee either, same problem.
If I thought there was a problem with Glocks, I wouldnt own one. I just dont see it as the guns fault when it was almost every time, an ammo issue. Some of the toughest guns ever made have been blown to pieces due to ammo issues. It can happen with pretty much anything. It probably does happen more with glocks, because there are more of them out there.

Over charged or double charged it really matters not. The end result is to much [bleep] powder in the case. Know one even know if the right powder is in the case.

Are you always this slow or only when your on the internet?

Dink

I always thought the Glock Kaboom was a ultra rare occurance that was prepetuated by the G haters club.

Until....dec 17, 2010

Lesson learned.
Do Not shoot reloads in any HP Glock barrel.


Listen to Glock, they know their gun and it's limitations.

Could a 1911 kaboom?
Sure? the result may be more catastrophic! ?
Like a powder magazine. The stronger the container the bigger the bang!

I will contiunue to enjoy my G 20 and do EVERYthing in my power
to never see another kaBoom, in my grip!

If anyone has their thong in a twist over G23's going kaboom, please send them to me. I will dispose of them for you properly.

NO ONE HAS PROVEN THAT THE CARTRIDGE WAS OVERLOADED. It has been "Alleged" NOT PROVEN. The gun could have fired out of battery, the gun could have opened at the breach prematurely, the case could have been defeative.

Many factors that could have lead to the problem and none of them proven as of yet

Jumping to conclusions seem to be your MO and now the personal attack when you have no leg to stand on

If the ammo company has said that it was a over charged case it is not jumping to conclusions. Companies do not admit fault unless they are sure they are at fault. No way is a ammo company going to come and say that unless they %100 sure its thier fault.

My guess would be that whatever lot number of ammo this is they know it was over charged and admitted it up front.

Dink

I bet George Bush loaded the ammo that blew up the pistol. I will keep my Glock , thank you. If i had to make a guess , there is probably more to this than just the AMMO. Nothing is perfect in this world and you have a better chance of winning the lottery than a Glock failing you.

No way to make a definitive assessment OVER THE PHONE. Without complete testing of the ammo in question NO ONE KNOWS but some are certainly jumping to conclusions

Bingo, we have winner

Just to add fuel to the fire, HS Arms (manufacturers of the XD line of pistols) has run a number of Glock-like torture tests on their pistols. One of the tests involved intentionally squibbing a .45 ACP round and then firing another round behind it. The pistol held up so they did it again. The pistol held up again. Apparently the pistol functioned just fine, but barrel measurements indicated a slight bulge.

Was there a pretty good review and investigation made by the ammo company? I'd be VERY surprised if they just said "it's our fault" without looking things over with a fine toothed comb.

Without naming names, off the top of my head I can think of two Campfire members that had kabooms and two others that had head separations.

Rick Bin should sell lottery tickets.

+1

That info should've been the first thing you posted!!

I think that he with held the name of the ammo maker, because nothing has been proven as of yet

Looks to me like the brass let go and the gases were diverted into the magazine/trigger area.

If it was over pressure the extractor probably wouldn't still be in the gun.

All the so called Kabooms floating around the internet have the chamber area of the barrel peeled back and that shows a waaay over pressure load and not a fault of the design.

The VAST majority of Glock kB!�s have involved incorrect ammunition, most often handloaded ammunition with cast bullets, but at times, brand new factory loads from a reputable manufacturer. I�m very aware of ONE case where a Glock very obviously fired out of battery because the case was recovered and it had a very high primer hit. There have been other Glock kB!�s from things that blow up any make of gun, like a barrel obstruction.

The Glock doesn�t have an unsupported chamber, and saying so is just an inaccurate statement. Still, Glocks have a little less support at the lower end of the chamber near the feed ramp than most other makes of guns. This doesn�t mean a Glock is unsafe, it just means that a Glock is less forgiving of weakened cases (and ANY reloaded case is weakened), or issues that would lead to an over-pressure situation.

Each of us has to decide whether a given pistols known weaknesses are acceptable or not. There are some here that find that �less forgiving� nature of the Glock to be unacceptable. There are many here who sleep well at night because they feel the odds of getting bit by that bug are about the same as being struck by lightning. It�s an individual call we all make.

It behooves EVERYONE who carries a gun for protection to not deny a known issue with their personal choice of pistol, but to understand it and learn how to best deal with that. I have yet to see a pistol in this world that doesn�t make certain compromises to get the job done. It will do an individual well to know and accept what those compromises are, rather than bury your head in the sand and act like there�s nothing wrong.

Stray Round - very good observation.

I have to admit, I really didn't pay much attention to the photos, I was more interested in the "spin" certain individuals, from Glock lovers to Glock haters, would put on this issue. But your post forces me to look at the photos and I'm left with a similar conclusion.

The gun in the photos does not exhibit signs of an over-pressure situation. Now the barrel peeling you talk about is usually indicative of a barrel obstruction. But still, in most over-pressure situations the damage to the gun is much more severe. You're right in that the extractor is often blown out. But with an over pressure situation, the dammage to the frame is usually quite graphic and catastrophic. Whereas this pistol doesn't have nearly the damage you normally associate with an over-pressure round.

This pistol looks like your typical G23 that's been fed reloaded ammunition. Now whether it's a case of the owner shooting his own or someone elses reloads, but then stating to everyone that it was factory, I don't know. Or perhaps it's a factory reload; there are many makers of very high quality reloaded ammunition, Black Hills is one such maker.

Now understand, this is anecdoatal, looking at a picture and my opinion is just that, and opinion. But to me, that looks like it was fed a reloaded cartridge.

"All the so called Kabooms floating around the internet have the chamber area of the barrel peeled back and that shows a waaay over pressure load and not a fault of the design.
"

Not so with my G20. The slide and barrel were the ONLY parts found to be withing spec. And returned to me.
The rest is all new . Even the sights were replaced by Glock.

The one Kaboom I'm familiar with locally, involved Fiocchi ammunition, factory loads, and it happened in an all-but-new 22.

so was it ruled bad ammo or gun problem ?

Kiesler's Police Supply, of Jeffersonville, sold both items to my friend, he was a serious "churner" who bought a new pistol every month, it seems like. He was one of their better customers, so they took the pistol back, and quit handling Fiocchi .40 ammo. He got store credit, or something like that, towards another gun. Kiesler's distributes Glocks to the cops, of course, so they took it in stride, and Glock probably gave them a new pistol, anyway. I don't know how it all worked out for Richard, except he was shooting "something else" the next month, nothing new there. He could break a brick with a soda straw.............

Ammo, I'd reckon, though Richard had used that ammo in several other .40 pistols without any problems, so one guess is as good as another. I think it was claimed as an "ammunition incompatibility issue" and otherwise dropped. He'd bought the gun and ammo at Kiesler's Police Supply, of Jeffersonville, IN, where he bought and traded a LOT of guns.

Overpressure can sometimes look like weak brass and vice versa, especially with a Glock. Some years back Federal had to change the design of their .40S&W brass because the web wasn't reinforced and there were several kabooms involving factory Federal rounds because the "less than fully supported" chamber of the Glock exposed this weakness. These kb's looked just like those involving handloads with weakened brass.

Now the question is, how thick is the web on Fiocci .40S&W brass? Because if it, like the Federal years ago is thin at the web, a double charge could and would seek the weakest link, in this case being the area of "less than fully supported" chamber as opposed to the barrel. If this occurred, it could release at the bottom of the chamber and down the mag well like we see in the picture.

A few years ago I got a bad batch of .223 rounds that were over pressure. I had for all intents and purposes, a KB in my AR-15. There was no damage to the barrel or receiver, but like the Glock shown above, the brass ruptured near the case head and all of the gas escaped down the mag well. Now I know an AR is different than a Glock, but the same principal can apply, gas will escape from the weakest area and in some cases that is the case head.

Glocks are crap, they should be able to stand up to over charged cases, the old weak Federal cases and inexperienced handloaders.

Here is a photo I got today from my father in law. Apparently from Chinese factory loads.?? Glocks are not the only guns that blow up with bad ammo.

Ive seen it done with many pistols including a HK USP 45 acp. The loads in that were reloads however. Glocks are more prolific than most other brands therefore incident rate will be higher in my opinion. Glad your friend is okay and hopefully it will get resolved. Esox357.

Much easier to determine if the ammo over load or an obstruction in the bore is the cause of a revolver blowing up for a couple of reasons.

1- the chamber fully supports the case
2- a revolver will not fire out of battery
3- a revolver action will not open too quickly

All 3 of the above can lead to a KaBoom in a semi auto

a couple of years ago my grandson was not listening to my advice about reloads in a springfield xd .45acp. I was there with him when it happened. He was in rapid fire, had a light load which produced a squibb, bullet lodged in the barrel, then fired another round.
it cracked the barrel and jammed up the gun. It was returned to springfield, and new barrel dropped in and that was it. Very strong gun.
Now i did the same thing a couple of years ago on a glock 23. Blew out the front part of the slide, and cracked the barrel. I replaced the slide and barrel and it runs fine. This by the way was with a aftermarket barrel.
There are some design items with a glock .40, just like there are with every pistol. You need to be aware of them. among others: They are loose chambered intentionally, and the six o'clock position on unsupported brass. Other pistols have this distinction too.
the .40 is susceptable to bullet setback and increased pressures if looses crimped.
They have to be cleaned, the square rear of the barrel is susceptable to material buildup and they in some cases if not fully locked up can fire out of battery.
I like to call a glock a gun i love to hate except they do work AS designed.
The key element is to pay attention to the phrase AS DESIGNED.
I have fired a 23 basically since the year they were first introduced with all kinds of ammo, and with the one exception of a squibb load due to my stupidity they have worked fine.
I also know a guy that blew a glock due to a for certain overcharged round. It looked just like the pictures, and in that sense i think the glock worked, the guy did NOT suffer any injuries. I might add i have fired thousands of rounds of lead bullets through glocks, but i did switch out to after market barrels. The main problem i have with a glock is stupid people.
such as not clearing the chamber before you pull the trigger to get takedown of the slide.

absolute worthy post

The pic of that blown up smith is really somthing.
Just curious how the other rounds in the cylinder,(the ones not in front of the firing pin)went off?
Would the top round exploding like that have enough ommph to set off the primers in the other chambers? The only other thing I can think of that might do that would be excessive heat, but thats not likely. Puzzled.

Interesting dialogue.
I did my research before buying my Glock 17 gen 3.
The Glock does indeed have "slightly" more of an unsupported chamber... has a little more slop in the chamber compared to a match chamber... not supposed to fire lead rounds in the polygonal bore... not supposed to use reloads... Some 40's in Glocks apparently have a higher percent of kabooms than the original 9mm... So guess what I did?
I bought a 9mm, I shoot no reloads, I shoot jacketed rounds, and I know for sure that I am shooting a "mix" (gun/round) that will load, and load, and load, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, for as long as I want to pull the trigger... the 9mm Glock is a sewing machine of dependability...
I also have long-guns I reload, both 30-06 and 375h&h... I stay within the limitations of the rifle and if I ever want to shoot a hotter load, I'll get a bigger rifle... boring, huh?
Reading all the kaboom diatribe tells me that some folks want to push the envelope and not do what Glock recommends, then complain about the weapon... let's see.... I wonder if I can put another 20 grains of 4350 in my 06', and I wonder if it will hold up???? What do you think?

Im sure that there have been quality control issues during this wave of mass produced ammo craze. The odds of this being an ammo problem is probably pretty good. Whether its over, double, triple loaded is irrelevant. I own many different handguns and none have blown up Glock 35 and 21 included. I have had a 1911 go full auto when a friend of mine shot it and blame near shot me in the head. But, the 1911 is still my favorite handgun. These type of things always end up in a pi$$ing match between guns and owners. There have been all types of failures in all types of guns and will be until the end of time. Did we all discard our Remmy 700's because they go possessed and fire whenever they want? I doubt it. Arguing over experience handloading and shooting or who has the biggest set of dies or loading press and/or whatever else accomplishes nothing. But it makes for a helluva lot of interesting reading...

geez

I wish you would tell us what type of ammo.

of recent i know that federal recently had the wrong powder get into cases.i posted with lot numbers here is link to that post federal ammo recall

I think two different things are being discussed here. One is definitely over pressure rounds causing the chamber area of the barrel to let go and I think everyone will agree that if this happens in any handgun it will have the same results. Totally the fault of the ammo.

The other problem is from split brass letting the gases blow out the mag and frame area. Some believe it is due to the supposed "unsupported" Glock chambers and others due to firing out of battery or possibly bad brass either straight from the factory or worn out reloaded brass.

I used to have access to brass fired from several hundred Glocks from police qualifications. I have a hard time with the unsupported chamber idea, especially when you place a round in a chamber and look at where the web is on the case.

As for firing out of battery keep the firing pin channel clean to keep it from getting stuck while protruding out the breech face. Keep the chamber clean to prevent partial seating.

One big culprit that I don't see mentioned is don't keep unloading and loading the top round as it gradually allows the bullet to be seated deeper and deeper running up pressures quickly. Possibly why the .40 guns with their higher pressures seem to usually be the ones blamed for letting go.

If something else is to blame I'd like to know.

Now for a real controversy, lead bullets don't hurt Glocks.

srws -

A few years back I had a Tangfolio .40 blow up in my hand. Checker wood grips stamp the checkering in my hand. The slide was bent and the barrel was blown.

I was firing a box of 20 rounds of FACTORY ammo.

The dealer, a friend, took the gun back and dealt with the companies involved to recover his $$.

you are right i have no proof it was a over charge,as far as a double charge fitting in one casing,you are wrong. with only 5.6grns in the casing a double will fit .

just to update you all

ammo company has refunded the money for ammo,and said they wanted to do the right thing with the gun and they were waiting to hear from glock.

i called glock on friday 3/11 and they can't seem to locate my gun . i have checked with ups ,glock did recieve it ,it was signed for. so now all i can do is hope they find it.

and a big THANK YOU for doing so!


opened the link, but hadn't had time till today to check my .45 auto ammo


sure enough, I've got a 250 value pak, with one of the lot numbers


you have my sincere appreciation and gratitude for sharing this info with your fellow shooters.

who knows what you may have possibly helped me avoid?