I know this has been debated many times, but I didn't find anything similar to this question in the search on this site. I recently bought a Glock 26 as a CCW and haven't been able to make up my mind on which ammo to carry for self defense. I know that pretty much all of the high grade hollow points will work if you do your job and make the shots count, but every advantage helps. It's also nice to have what you believe to be one of the best rounds available loaded in your gun just for confidence purposes. I've pretty much settled on the Federal HST based off of reviews and price, but I can't make my mind up between the 124 grain and 147. Or weather or not to go with +P.

On one side, most people claim the lighter faster loads are better because of the higher energy. On the other side some people prefer the heavier loads for penetration. Also, from what I know and have read, Winchester states that the heavier 147 grain loads perform better in short barreled pistols such as my Glock because of the larger surface area that allows for the pressure to build allowing you to get the most out of the round. I'm only 22 and no expert on any of this stuff. This is my first center fire handgun and I've only shot others on a few occasions.

My main questions are, in your opinions(fired from my short barreled G26), which would be best for self defense? What are the differences in energy, recoil, and penetration? Please state weather or not you would go with +P or standard pressure and why.

The only rounds I have even fired through this gun are PMC 124 FMJs and Winchester 115 FMJs. I did notice that the PMC's had lighter recoil and were easier to shoot. I always thought heavier loads would have more recoil, but that's just from rifle experience.

All info is greatly appreciated.

I'd go with the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P Short Barrel load myself.

My advice ( worth < $0.02 ) shoot a box of each and see what YOU like.
Where it hits. And how you like the recoil, and feel.

For my wife's 9C I load 90 grain slugs ( HP Hornadys)

The same one I use for the .380

She can keep a palm sized group all day long with them.

AND I only need to stock one .355 bullet.

My sone likes the 148's in his Ruger.

( remember a hit with a .22 is better'n a miss with a .45 )

Factory...Corbon 115s....1350 from a 4" barrel...Sierra HP expands dependably...

Bob

For legal reasons, hand loads may not be a good idea for personal protection. Attorney's for the recently departed/wounded perp. will get up and do a song and dance before a jury about those "dum-dum" bullets you prepared especially for his client, the "victim" of your aggressive tendencies... etc., ad nausium.

I think any good defense lawyer would agree...

Just a thought...

DF

+1 on this load.

for HD, I use Federal HydraShock 124 grain in my 9mm pistols.

I just don't sweat it. Use any JHP from a major manufacturer that you can trust. The difference from one to the other will never matter. I tend to lean toward heavier bullets, never going lighter than 115 grain. Usually like a 124, but occasionally pick a 147. I've treated a lot of shooting victims, bullet has never been a factor unless you're talking gimicky rounds; that's why I say stick with the major manufacturers...they're not going to bet their reputation on gimicky bullets.

I always go with the heaviest HP bullet I can. I like the 147's and want them as hot as they come....the laws of physics apply and you have conservation of energy in mass rule......the heavier the bullet the better it penetrates....and I am not worried about pass thru's so much as getting all the energy I can inside the target...that said....no bullet in the world will do you any good if the shot is not place right on the target...remember more people die from .22lr than any other caliber...shot placement is the key...any thing else is just a bonus point...

If a pass-thru is going to be a problem, think what a miss is going to be!

Reason I'm so torn between the two is because I've read a lot about how the lighter bullets have more energy and I've read several things from places like chuckhawks stating that the 147s are the worst rounds to use. Seems like a lot of people love them though. I won't be ordering much of whatever ammo I go with and was hoping to just order a couple hundred rounds of one kind rather than 100 of each to try. If a local place sold them I'd buy 50 of each and try but no where around here does. From the videos I've watched on youtube the 124 appeared to do more damage and penetrate almost as much as the 147.
124 grain HST
147 grain HST

If both rounds are going to perform nearly identical to one another out of my gun, I'd rather have the easier one to control, but I don't know which one that would be? If one will perform reasonably better out of my short barrel I'd rather have it. I realize how shot placement is everything and either bullet will work fine but like everyone I want the best

My favorite load is the Corbon DPX 115gr. +P. I feel very comfortable with this round.

Only reason I'm not considering that round is the price. I want something I can practice more with and can't afford to do that with those. They look like a great round though.

+1

I have 9mm 147gr Winchester Black Talons, 147gr Speer Gold Dot, 124gr Speer Gold Dot +P and Cor-Bon DPX 115gr +P.

The Cor-Bon DPX is my favorite....

Those short barrel Gold Dots are what I'd carry. Winchester Ranger is the best all around 9mm load if you can get it. This is especially true if carjacking is an issue where you live and you need to shoot through glass. That stuff is deflected a lot less than conventional ammo.

Not all Ranger is bonded.

Barnes 115 XPB's, I load mine w/ power pistol powder for 1300 fps. in a little SIG P-239. done quite a bit of testing in my bullet box.
My bullet box has hard glossy magazines [dry] pieces of 2x4's and drywall mixed in and stacked tight, and after testing all I can say is thats one mean little MOFOing bullet, and I would NOT want that little buzzsaw ahold of any part of my azz.

It may sound silly to some, but I had to do those test to try and convince myself that something that small can be effective, IMHO it is.
And if your not a handloader I believe Double Tap ammo sells these loaded up and ready to go.

Gunner

Whether you like or despise Masaad Ayoob--you have to give him credit for being a student of lethal confrontations---he compiles data like no one else that I'm familiar with. He's been a friend since 1979 and I was able to sit thru a very intensive two day MAG-20 class of his two weeks ago.

His take on the 9mm is that of the data that he's collected (including response reports from a HUGE # of LE agencies)- by far the best stopping load in the 9mm is the +P 124 gr. load.

I'm not personally a big fan of the 9mm and have no dog in this fight--just passing along the opinion of someone who has more than a cursory knowledge of the subject.

YMMV.
Greg

From what I've read he actually prefers the 127 grain Ranger +p+ and the 124 Gold dot +p second.

Looks like I'm going to order some of the Rangers and DPX's from surplusammo.com because they are the only two self defense loads they carry that I'm really interested in plus they have cheap practice JHP ammo. Hoping to get some HST's to try out as well.

I could never understand the theory behind the 147 Subsonic loads.

.38 Special 158 +P LHPs don't exactly have the stellar reputation for tactical penetration nor immediate incapacitation among street officers who have been in actual gun fights with them. So if the average velocity of these rounds from a 4" barrel is in the 900-950 fps range what exactly is the difference between that and a 9mm (.355) at 950+-fps from the average 9mm handgun......

The 9mm subsonics being jacketed and having a smaller meplat over penetrated in soft tissue and underpenetrated hard cover. One of my friends saw an expended bullet recovered after a gunfight and said it could have been reloaded....

I remember making the statement right after the wound ballistics committee report came out that "now we just have a 15 shot .38 Special"....and that is what it exactly turned out to be. If it was as great as the committee said it was going to be every LE department in the nation would still be using it....few today are. Somewhere around I have an article with an interview of the Chief Range Officer for the FBI being questioned as to the 9mm/147 and why the FBI was no longer using it. He stated something to the effect that "it hadn't worked quite as effectively as predicted"...no $hit $herlock....

In .35 caliber guns give me all the velocity that can safely run and still control the weapon. The .357 Magnum/125 JHP is the standard that every other self-defense cartridge compares itself to and the 147s have proved lacking over and over again....

Bob

They were originally designed for use in suppressed MP5SD's. Frpm what I read, they kept increasing bullet weight until it went subsonic, which happened to be 147gr. That got rid of the sonic crack. The problem was that people saw other agencies adopting it, and didn't determine why. They just followed as copycats.
From what I've read, the best 9mm loads are the Ranger 127 +P+, GD 124 +P, Fed 9BPLE 115 +P+. CB 115 DPX +P and regular CB JHP 115 +P.

The +P 147gr loads are running in the 1120-1175 fps range.

An MP5 SD is designed to "vent" gas off of standard 9mm ball (the NATO stuff is pretty hot) and make it leave the muzzle subsonic. If you run 147gr through one it really kills the energy.

I should have been more clear... What I meant was that I could never understand how anyone could believe that the 147 subsonic could be any more effective than a .38 Special.

And yes, the original rounds made by Winchester were for the MP5 but were mainly to increase accuracy I believe. They also needed the increased bullet weight to operate the delayed rollerblock system of the MP5 for reliable functioning...

Bob

Big BS flag waving here. H&K didn't need Winchester to "fix" the MP5 SD, that may have been some bullschit tale some sales guy told to sell ammo, that doesn't make it so. You can set a pepper popper so that GI 115gr will knock it down and 147gr won't, so you tell me which one is best?

If the 115 will knock it down then so will the 147..

I have found that the best 9mm SD ammo is (and I have never shot anyone so its all speculation) is the Top Drawer stuff. Cheap and effective.

WildithinkiwillshootsomeofftomorrowAlaska ��2002-2011

There have been several LEO involved shootings in SW VA using the new Federal stuff (polymer tipped), in 9x19.

The results have been... definitive.

Personally, I carry Speer Gold Dots when I carry a 9mm.

Not this schit again....

BS, on the whole.

+1, VA

Gotta say, even though the 147 seems to have it's followers, the best arguments I've heard have been for the lighter stuff. Cor-bon is known for making some of the best ammunition out there and their motto is (according to surplusammo.com) " At CORBON, they believe that velocity is king! Higher energies enhance bullet performance and increase stopping power." I have yet to see a manufacture say anything about the slow heavy rounds being the best or close to it even though they sell them. But, God knows I haven't read more than a speck of all the info out there.

This has been a very helpful topic. Thanks to everyone who has shared their opinions and the more the better.

The .45ACP 230 ain't no speed king, but it's damned sure a stopper.

CorBon has good products, and great marketing to those that believe "the fastest/deadliest/etc-est" has more to do with anything than does reliability, function, and accuracy.

The fact is, there are some supremely good ammunition options out there these days for just about every round, and the 9x19 has more than it's share of excellent options.

Pick one of the top-shelf versions based upon what functions FLAWLESSLY in your pistol, shoots well, and go with that one.

Put the bullet in the right place and I wonder if you'd notice the difference between 115, 124 and 147 grains.

I'm shooting corbon power-ball in my new diamondback 9mm. These new pistols occasionally have problems feeding and although it feeds federal 115 fmj perfect and it fed 7 rounds of gold dot fine i'm going with the round that feeds in anything and is also a good stopper. YMMV
Fred

You wouldnt. Thats why I stick to Top Drawer

WildthebestthereisAlaska ��2002-2011

Stated this in the first post because I already understand that shot placement is everything.

"I know that pretty much all of the high grade hollow points will work if you do your job and make the shots count, but every advantage helps."

Just looking for the extra advantages and peace of mind knowing I have some of the best in my gun. This post has helped a lot with that. Ordered the 124 Rangers +p+ and some of the Cor-bon DPX's just because the place that had the bulk practice ammo that I wanted carried them and I figured why not.

As always.. Complete bullchit.

Something else to consider is reliability. Agency wide I saw a lot of functioning problems with the G26 that I did not see in the G19 or G17 when using 147 Hydrashok. Switching to the 124+p hydrashok was an immediate solution.

I know limp wristing was a strong factor in some of the malfunctions but it was a marked increase in reliability by increasing slide speed. In 9mm in general I favored the 124gr at 1200fps regardless of brand or style.

again, bob, you beat me to the punch, great minds must think alike. I have always thought the 147grain bullet in the 9mm was just a hi cap .38special.
As to another poster commenting on those barnes bullets, they are truely nasty little mothers.
I obtained a few in different calibers as loaded ammunition and think they are one of the nastiest if that is the right word bullet out there these days.
A few years ago i was talking to this long term F.B.I. guy, who also subbed as an instructor in virginia for them, and he pulls out this little auto in an ankle holster and shows me some ammo. 115gr 9mm running at 30% OVER saami specs. Took me a while to find some, but i did. And certainly not to be fired in every 9mm out there. What he really had was a .357sig in the 9mm

This. Masad Ayoob has a great article on this in a recent issue of either Guns or Handgunner. Today's self defense ammo is very good. Find one that functions perfectly and shoots well in your handgun and go with it. My CZ75 shoots lighter bullets lower, so I narrowed my choices significantly when I found 147s shoot to point of aim.

Expat

Speer Gold Dot SB in my PM9 and regular +P in my M&P 9mm

Cor Bon DPX is good as well.