Thread title says it all. For hunting Mountain Lion with a 44 Special, Magnum or similarly loaded 45 Colt
(I have suitable revolvers in all three and can load up to "Ruger only" loads in the 45 Colt if necessary), would you load a solid cast bullet or an expanding jacketed hollow point?

Mountain lions are thin skinned. But since you are already shooting a large bore you could load a SWC and be fine. For a .44 I would simply load a 240 grain cast SWC standard pressure load and not look back.

If you are really just wanting to try a JHP, I have had good experiences with XTPs.

Frankly, I would use your everyday/all purpose load that you shoot the best and know well.

I've seen posts on two Kats killed with .41 Magnums. One was shot with the 200 grain Speer HP that I know when it hits the nose melts off and the ashcan that is left is a real penetrator. Don't know the details on what the Kats reaction was when hit.

The other shooter was using a 4" Taurus Titanium Tracker with 170 Sierra HP that were loaded to slow to expand well. The story was well detailed on the web but don't recall everything...

I like a lot of shock with thin skinned animals...with a 629 Mountain Gun .44 Magnum I use the Speer 200 grain Gold Dot bullets...they turn inside out at 1100 fps, easy recoil and good penetration.

Bob

I have never shot one but I would go with an expanding all the way. They are not very stout animals to begin with, and you are shooting a caliber that has plenty of penetration.

Hornady XTP. A good expanding bullet.

I'm leaning toward cast HP's for hunting medium sized game of late. I've acquired a couple of moulds and I've shot a few critters with 'em, so far so good, especially the 270 gr LBT WFN hollowpoints in 45 LC. They'd be just the ticket for lion.

We'll see how they work on deer this fall...

If anyone has Bob Hagel's "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter" or "Guns, Loads and Hunting Tips" one of them contains a good discussion of what to use for mountain lion hunting. I have both books so forget which one that info is in.

IIRC he thought fairly highly of a .22 Magnum for treed cats but I could be misremembering that.

That isn't the first time I've heard/read that. From what I remember the .22 mag. wouldn't knock em out of the tree...They'd bleed out & then fall...easier on the dogs.

ETA: If it were me, I'd use something that would open up quick.

Yep. Me too.

He wrote an article on hunting mountain lion for "Handloader" and recommended a Keith bullet out of the 45 Auto-Rim, among other similar Keith style loads.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm leaning toward an expanding bullet for the reasons given; mainly, that cats are thin skinned and light boned to begin with, and could have alot of life left in them even with a full-caliber wound from a .44 or .45 solid cast bullet. I'll likely try the 240gr or 250gr Hornady XTP or perhaps the 200gr Speer Gold Dot in the 44 special. I'll have to buy a few boxes and work with them this summer.

Its hard not to like the 225gr Hornady FTX from the .45 Colt.

IME, the open up quick bullet of choice in .44 is the 240 gr. Remington SJHP. The XTP, while a good bullet that I've used with good results, is a harder/stouter bullet than the Remington. I really like the Remington bullet on thin skinned big game from at handgun velocities. From a rifle I like something more like the XTP. I've not tried the GoldDots in the .44 size so have no idea where they fit in the line-up, but I keep hearing good things about them.

I agree, the Remington scalloped SJHP is a helluva bullet. It's basically a soft lead HP with a gilding metal half-shell so's you can drive the bejabbers outta it in Magnum guns. In the old days, Lee Jurras loaded these bullets in his highly sought-after "Super Vel" 357 Magnum law enforcement ammo. I stumbled across a case of 158 gr Super Vel about 12 years ago and snapped it up. The bullets run just under 1200 fps out of a 2" M19 and just under 1300 fps out of a 4" M686. When they impact a whitetailed deer, they create utter devastation in the chest cavity and they do NOT exit. Guys I know who wore a badge back in the 357 Mag era have told me that cops loved the finality of an officer-involved shooting in which Super Vel was used, as opposed to the old 158 gr roundnose lead bullet they'd had before.

I handload the 180 gr Remington SJHP in 357 Mag caliber to about 1400 fps and have hunted deer with it as well with similar results. The long 180 stabilizes beautifully for longer shots. A friend in WI who is a superb longrange shot with his scoped 6" M686 tool a whitetail buck at 120 measured yards with my handload a couple years ago, bang-flop.

I think the Remington SJHP would be an excellent choice in any caliber for lion. Or any other medium sized game, including deer, coyote, antelope, and lower 48 black bear.

I've used Remington's .357" 125 grain bullet a bit and like it pretty well. Never tried their heavier .357" bullets though. I'm not sure if I was even aware that they made it all the way up to 180gr. Thanks for that heads up, Doc.

My only real complaint about the Remington pistol bullets is the way they've really shot up in price in the last few years. I can usually find Hornady XTP's a good bit cheaper.

I'll have to give those Remington's a look as well. I agree on the price issue; I can get Hornady's locally for a few bucks a box less than the Remingtons, even before shipping.

Lions are not hard to kill and a 22 magnum with a 40g Winchester HP does an excellent job when they are tree'd. Trick is the kill them fast enought so that they will not kill a dog.

I've been thinking about this question also, but specifically with a Ruger New Model 44 Special.

I like cast bullets for most purposes but have decided on the 200 grain XTP @ 1130 fps. It should open up (maybe stay in the Lion with a frontal shot) and it shoots in an inch @ 25 yards from my 4 5/8" BlackHawk.

Now I'm looking at closed-bottom-flap-covered holsters.

I really like that stainless 44spl! I've got the same gun in 45LC/45ACP and am on the lookout for a 44spl to go with it.

Check out El Paso Saddlery's flap holster, they're pretty nice. Simply Rugged offers flap holsters as well.

Jim: Regarding the 22 mag for cougars, perhaps you are referring to "The Longwalkers" by Jerry A. Lewis (Wolfe Pub). Lewis is a strong proponent of the 22 mag on treed cats. Great read by the way.

Hey that looks familiar!



Mine is a .45 Colt/ACP though. I just use it as an ACP gun. Heck for Mountain Lions, I would just load some factory 230 grain Gold Dot JHPs in the ACP Cylinder and call it good. I think they would ruin Mr. Big Paw's lunch!

I was thinking along those lines for mine too:



Ruger's been making some really neat stuff lately. Wish I could find one in stainless with the 5 1/2" barrel. Or, better yet, if Ruger would make one with the Bisley grip.

The revolver next to it is a K22 made in 1948. Old enough to be the Ruger's grandpa

250 gr Keith SW

I haven't bought Rem SJHP's for some time... Midway used to sell 'em in bulk boxes, and I have quite a supply on hand in 158 gr and 180 gr. I can't find the box with the 180's in it since I moved, though...

Definitely an expanding bullet like the XTP which is one of the best expanding bullets for pistols made.JJ Hack had his hands in on the making of that bullet..FYI....

Jayco

That's how I used to buy 'em too. I'm now down to less than 100 of the 240gr 44's and probably less than 50 of the 125gr 357's.

Midway's bulk pricing used to be pretty attractive, but not so much anymore.

I never shot one, but what a thrill to keep up with the dogs on a successfully hunt!

I have seen 3 killed, 2 larger cats. One with a .22LR , one a .22 mag and another with .223 ball-ammo.

They all died just as quickly. They don't take much, but shot placement needs consideration.

Personally, For me it would be hard for me to think of anything being better then my 14" scopped Contender in .223 and a plain ol CnC tack-driver. I would slid in a round pf ball-ammo in a second.

I prefer deep penetrations on cougars. Joke aside expanding bullets with sufficient penetration has worked well for me. This is a B&C lion taken with a 10mm Delta Gold Cup. Load is 10.0 gr of 800-X under 165 gr Remington Golden Saber at 1400fps.

Who doesn't?

BTW, nice cat!

Cougars are not hard to kill, I've taken them at close range with .22 mag, and seen them taken at close range with .22 mag, .32 H&R mag and 357 Mag. With a 44 caliber, shoot either special or mag, the load should not matter at tree'd cat distances so long as you make a good shot. Make a bad shot, and it don't really matter what you use, just get ready for some tore up dogs. I personally would use a good hard cast with a 44, just so the holes that the taxidermist has to sew up ain't so big.

+1

Hard cast SWC's or any of the better JHP's in a 41, 44, 357, 45 is more than adequate providing you can hit where you aim.

If you miss a kill shot with most any of the above get ready for a rodeo & prolly some torn up dogs.......my BIL lost a good one last year to a badly shot cat.

MM

Bob Hagel probably hunted and more cougars than anyone will ever do again. In his book "Guns, Loads, & Hunting Tips" he covers most every thing mentioned to do with cougars.

He stated that he tried the 45AR with a keith type bullet, and it had inadequate penetration and shock.(P.376) He said the 357 with hard cast bullets penetrated very well, but "lacked punch."(p.378) He liked the big 44's with the keith type loads best.

He said that the 357 and keith type bullets "because of caliber and bullet weight."(p.378) were the least effective of the big magnums for big game.

I suggest that you check out "Old Bob." I think that he'd say that you folks with little pea shooters didn't like your dogs: or respect your game enough to kill it well.

I have been thinking about this for a couple of years myself. As a bowhunter in Az and Elk Hunter is which ever state I am lucky enough get drawn in for the season, I hunt in their backyard. I have always just carried a glock 19 for this case with the attitude that any noise will scare the cat away. Last year in Wyoming I surprised a black bear at 10 yards. He ran away from me and then stopped and charge back towards me. At that point I realized my little 9 will not help much.

With all that said I started to my research and in my opinion want you might want to look at for the purpose of hunting and how the equipment is treated on the mountain is the Glock 20. This is a 10 mm that should take care of all your needs in the lower 48s. And for the price you cant beat it. The mountain takes it toll on your equipment so I would be cautious about using one of my nice guns.

Now from this forum, I have discovered a great site that has the best carrying device for your guns. When you have a backpack on its hard to access your fire arm and their is multiple articles on how the black hawk sherpa has issues. So check them out. I have the runners kit for my pistols with the ravens holster. PERFECT for what we do.
http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/