Just got back from the range.

I've been making brass for my Yugo M57 from .223 brass and it's a chore.

I loaded some .312 diameter Speer 100 grain jacketed HP's over 6.2 grains of Blue Dot a while ago to serve as a fire forming load. I knew it would be very mild, but it wouldn't even cycle the action.

Also, the Lee sizing die didn't set the shoulder back far enough on those cut down .223 cases and the only way they would chamber was to single load them and drop the slide to hammer them into battery,..so I worked it as a single shot.

I'm still just working with fire forming loads, but this time I loaded them with 6.8 grains of Blue Dot.

Also, I took the shell holder to work and removed .015" from it's thickness with a surface grinder so that I could push the case far enough into the die to place the shoulder in its proper position.

The 6.8 grain load cycled the action fine and dropped all of the cases close by. It was also fairly accurate,...as is the Yugo M57. I was impressed by it's willingness to feed the 100 grain Speer hollow point,..which is intended to be a revolver bullet and has a lot of lead exposed at its tip.

I fired 60 rounds today,...mostly just to further process my brass. But even so, the fireforming loads chopped a ragged 3" circle at 10 yards without giving as much effort as I could have.

The 7.62X25 round is a smokin' hot .30 caliber bottlenecked handgun round, and even though the 6.8 grain load capped by a 100 grain bullet served to only be enough to cycle the M57 action, it wasn't all that weak. I haven't bothered to chorny it, but it feels at least as hot at the upper limit of a .32 H&R magnum.

Forming brass for it from Lake City 5.56 cases is a slow, laborious process,...and I've only played with a couple of fireforming loads,..but I'm beginning to develop a feel for what propellants will work well in it and where they should be.

There's a lot of new kids on the block in the propellant catagory, but as soon as I get enough brass properly formed, I'm going to work up some 100 grain, .312 diameter Hornady XTP's over my old friend, 2400.

Tooling up and loading for this handrifle is becoming a very interesting project.

From what I've seen so far, the results are going to be good.

Thank you for the information. I have been interested in this catridge / pistol for some time. Please keep us posted. John

Good stuff, Bristoe. I've been enjoying your updates and photos on this project. I'd like to see more of this kind of stuff in Handloader.

It's different.

I knew it was out there but never really paid much attention to it before.

Then I started reading up on the velocity it was capable of and decided to give it some work,..so I bought a fairly nice Yugoslavian M57 Tokarev to serve as a test vehicle for the 7.62X25

The biggest surprise so far is the accuracy of the M57.

This thing wants to shoot!

It reminds me of a heavy barrel Ruger .22 auto pistol the way it makes holes exactly where you hold the sights.

The surplus ammo for them has dried up and people are letting them go.

I'm probably going to buy another one.

Thanks for sharing your load development. Very interesting cartridge .

Ernie

I really haven't gotten to the load development part yet.

I've got to get a brass catcher first,..lol,..

Have you considered loading some of the 100 grain Hornady plinker bullets? Seems like one of my old manuals mentioned loading that little half jacketed bullet in those cases.

I wouldn't mind,...but they're .308 diameter.

The Toke that I've got has a .312 barrel,...at least.

I slugged it with a .312 hollow base wadcutter and it just barely filled the groove diameter.

Hmmm. Ten roger.

I bought several hundred bulk packed 71 grain .312" bullets intended for the .32 auto to try in the Toke.

I wanted some cheap bullets to fireform the brass with, but I'm also going to twist the ear on a few and see what kind of velocity I can get with them.

Found this guy on Gunblast who got over 1700 fps with 90 grain bullets using H110.

I would have thought that H110 would be too slow, but evidently not!

,...bet it makes a hell of a fireball.

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_CZ52.htm

Bristoe,

If you have access to some open base 110 fmj's designed for .30 carbine you might try them for fire-form/plinking. I know they are .308, but JB's use of .308 partitions in the .303 British makes me think it could work.

One of these days I need a 7.62x25 barrel for the 1911. Of course, I also need a 9mm 1911 pistol, too.

Need pictures!

Not much to take pictures of at this point.

Making 7.62X25 brass from .223 is slow going and the learning curve was a bit steeper than I had anticipated.

I've finally got some cases with the shoulder in the proper position and have fireformed them to my chamber, so today I put together my first batch of *real* loads.

They use the same .312 Speer 100 grain JHP and are loaded over a charge of Blue Dot that should get them to 1300 and produce about 30,000 psi. (according to my buddy with the Quickload software)

I read reports which state that surplus ammo for the 7.62X25 is loaded to 40,000 psi,..and those who have chronographed the Sellier & Beloit commercial ammo say that it does in excess of 1500 with an 85 grain bullet from a Tokarev

My goal is to take a 100 grain bullet to 1500 from the Zastava M57,..and I'm fairly sure that it's doable,...but I'm not sure how fast I should go with Blue Dot.

The people who run up velocity with this cartridge have been doing so with H110 and 296.

I think 2400 and Lil' Gun might also be worth a try.

It's an interesting chambering to play with, but except for an occasional tidbit of information from Quickload, you're pretty much flying blind when working up loads for it,...especially since I'm using non standard cases and have no idea as to how their case capacity compares to genuine 7.62X25 brass.

All you'll have to do is SHOW a groundhog one of those evil looking little beetches, and it'll fall over dead.

lol,..They do make a nasty looking little cartridge, don't they?

I'm getting a big kick out of playing with this commie pistol and its miniature rifle cartridge chambering.

I'm trying to hold back on informing people that they'll have to spend big bucks on their government model .45 to get the accuracy that this Yugoslavian Tokarev demonstrates.

Don't need the grief,..yanno.

People can launch into a pissin' match over Sunday dinner here.

If I tell 'em that a Serb pistol that costs $250 produces more energy and accuracy than their $2500 Wilson custom, they'll go ape chit.

Heh, there are some things in life that just ain't right.

On the subject of that cartridge, can you imagine facing someone with one of those PPsH SMGs?

Holy Shyte!

What is your trim length? Could you form from 221 fireball?

I push 208A-maxs from a shortened 223 case ala 300 whisper using 8 grains of blue dot at 1070 fps with a 16 inch 8 twist barrel. It would seem that your load would be slower, not faster, but there are a lot of different variables in play there. You have definitely sparked some interest in this round for me. Keep the updates coming.

I read about that a long time ago in a book about the seige of Stalingrad.

The germans had it closed off, of course, and the Russians were yanking up railroad track,..pulling beams out of buildings,..anything they had to do to come up with steel.

Then they were hammering it into those bullet pump SMG's chambered in 7.62X25,...probably loaded hotter than the gates of hell.

Everytime they'd get a batch put together, they'd pass 'em around to the peasants and have them rush the german lines at dawn.

I'm guessin' that must have been un-nerving for the Germans.

,...20 damn below zero,...you just wake up,..sittin' in a hole trying to get some coffee above 40 degrees,..ain't been laid in 2 years,..don't givva chit no more,..but what do you do about it?,....

,..and then,..through the morning haze here comes some half mongolian sumbitch who has lived off of rat meat for the past 18 months rushing you with an attitude and a submachine gun made from some babushka's chamber pot.

.988

.988 from 1.4, still a bit of trimming

I cut my 223 cases in a chop saw, then level them up in a wilson trimmer. I have a little piece of small aluminum channel that I stack the cases in and put the channel in the chop saw vise. I can chop four cases pretty darn quick. But the clean up and trim to lenght are a pain.

I got one of them little chop saws from harbor freight too,...but I've been cutting them in a lathe every chance I get.

The trim length is .988, but they stretch when you run them up in the die and put the neck on them.

I've been cutting them at .982 in the lathe. They stretch up to about .990 when you bottleneck 'em, and then it's just a matter of trimming them a little bit to get the mouth of the case square.

When you fireform them, they expand in the middle and pull the OAL of the case back to about .983,...but that's close enough.

B,
If you want to try some 221 FB brass, I ran up on a few pieces while out in the garage today.

I appreciate the offer man,...really I do.

But I'd hate to take 'em offa ya.

I'd just have to chuck 'em up in the lathe and cut off alla the work you've done to 'em.

I'm just as far ahead starting out with old range grabbed .223 brass.

Buddy I didn't do anything but empty them with the last rifle I had chambered for the fireball.

It's not likely I'll end up with another.

B, I'm going to have to go out shoot my little M-57, then go collect all that brass, just for you. If I can find the brass.
Would send a box or so, but not sure how to do it legal on live ammo or the cost.

.312 diameter 71 grain FMJ's generally intended for the .32 auto.

These were a bit of a challenge to get concentric with the case, but after a second attempt at fabricating a top punch for them to use in my bullet seater, I solved the mystery.

The little 71 grainers are almost all ogive,..with only about a .110" length section at the base of the bullet being the full .312 diameter.

I'm using them in my fireforming loads, but from my previous experimentation with fireforming loads, I expect them to shoot about as well as they're going to from a fully formed case.

I didn't get overly ambitious with the powder measure, but they should have a little bit of stink on them. I didn't want to risk having them not being hot enough to cycle the action so I capped them over 7 grains of SR4756.

I'm guessing about 1250 fps,...maybe,..who the hell knows?

Good luck on getting those cases ironed out to chamber spec. I love fire forming, any excuse to shoot.

I have no doubt that they'll get fireformed.

Finding them afterwards is the issue.

Just back from the range,...fired every round I had loaded for the Toke,...170 rounds.

I still haven't broken out the chronograph, however.

I was having second thoughts about the 100 grain bullet over 8.6 grains of Blue Dot, but I had 60 of them loaded up and didn't want to resort to the puller, so they got shot.

No issues. It is however, a *very* warm load. The primers look fine, but the brass got pretty fat. The recoil wasn't oppressive, but it was definitely present. It's hard to compare it to another round regarding recoil. Overall, it was about like 230 grain roundball in a .45, but the recoil is more abrupt,..has more of a "snap" to it.

Accuracy was still very good, but it didn't seem to want to drop them in like the 6.8 grain Blue Dot fireforming load with the same bullet.

Feeding of the 312" 100 grain hollow point revolver bullet was 100% from 3 different magazines, which has turned out to be the biggest surprise yet from the Yugo pistol. It's always fed them good, but there was a couple of times that it failed to return to battery with the 6.8 grain fireforming load,..mainly because it wasn't working the slide with enough authority, in my opinion. The 8.6 grain load doesn't lack for that. It snaps the slide back plenty hard enough to chamber the next round.

Suffice it to say that these things will feed.

All in all, I'm happy with it and will probably file it away as a load to use in the 7.62X25 round, but I'm not taking it any hotter with Blue Dot. 8.6 grains is enough.

I know everybody always wants to stick a disclaimer on any loads they come up with and most of the time it's just a buncha hooey, but I'm serious when I say that you want to work up to 8.6 grains of Blue Dot with 100 grain bullets in the 7.62X25 very cautiously. This is obviously a high pressure load and small things could make it go through the roof very quickly.

Personally, I wouldn't shoot it in a CZ52, and I doubt that I'll do much plinking with it.

The 71 grain .32 auto FMJ bullet over 7 grains of SR4756 was a surprisingly nice load. I just grabbed the load out of the air and really don't know what it was doing in the velocity dept, but it's no slouch. It generated a respectable amount of recoil and was as accurate as anything I've shot through the M57 yet.

I think the 71 grainers are going to become my plinking bullet of choice in the M57 Toke. They're cheap and they shoot flat and accurately. I've no doubt that I'm going to be able to get 1800 fps out of them.

They're a pain to load, however. I had to resort to all kinds of skullduggery to get them seated concentric in the case.

Just a very good day at the club.

You are a braver man than I Gunga Din!