In your opinion, are there any handguns that are absolutely perfect right out of the box? I mean NO modifications needed whatsoever???

For me: S&W's 4" 617 K-22 revolver. While most gun snobs turn their noses at the presence of MIM internals, I say it's exactly those MIM internals that make this fun absolutely perfect right out of the box. The MIM parts are so precise that the action of my 617 is as smooth as any pre-war S&W just the way it sits. I mean, I'm a gunsmith so an action job costs me absolutely nothing, and yet in 10 years of ownership I have NEVER so much as taken the side plate off of the gun. Springs are a bit stiff but that's because it's a rimfire. Yes I could lighten that up some but it really doesn't bother me at all. I think of it as a training aid for "mere mortal" revolvers. If EVERY DA revolver I owIned feels like a Python, I may not shoot a borrowed gun too well. But heavy springs and all, I have won several matches shooting DA against people with match tuned Rugers, and even against a guy with a Pardini (shame on him)

The Hogue rubber grips contrast nicely with the stainless finish, and are comfortable. The finger grooves are a touch small for my mitts, but they still work out quite well, so I've never felt a need to replace them.

The only criticism I can lodge is the accuracy, which is good, but not great. It won't hold up to the old K-22's, and a Ruger Standard at just under half the price will almost halve the groups. Now that's not because my 617 is so inaccurate, but because even the lowly Ruger Standard will pull 3/4" groups at 25 yards if you do your job. Really quite remarkable when you think about it. The best my 617 will do is 1.40 at 25 yards with premium target ammo. But it will do 1.56" with CCI mini mags, so handgun hunting squirrels is very doable. In fact the worst group it has ever produced is still well under 2".

Now you sentimental sorts would be quick to say they just don't make them like they used to, but wait. The legendary reputation of the K-22 came from match bullseye shooting...and truth be told most match shooters would shoot only from the most accurate chamber, using the six gun as a single shot. Still the old guns were more accurate, but not because they were made better but because they only had to align 6 chambers, where the new 617 has to alIgn ten. To do that you do lose a very small bit of accuracy, but gain 40% more ammo capacity and easily 200% more fun if you're a DA shooter.

So there you are, the model 617 by Smith & Wesson. A truely perfect handgun, right out of the box.

So what's your idea of a perfect handgun right out of the box. Remarkably, I can think of several others. That means times are very good for handgunners.

Hence the "Colt Camp Perry"

Glad you like your gun!! I would too!!

As a combat gun the Glock comes SO close...but those horrendous plastic sights ruin it. And the M&P is just as close as the Glock...but then there's that silly trigger with the hinging lower half that's supposed to be some sort of "safety" device...they're joking right?

The Ruger Mk III's and Browning Buckmarks can give a couple lifetimes of outstanding service with absolutely no modification. Accuracy is superb, triggers aren't perfect but more than serviceable, and they're very reliable. What's more, depending on which model you buy, they can each be very handsome pieces to boot.

Many Sig's are nearly ideal in out of the box condition if you are okay with the traditional semi-auto DA trigger action. If it fits your hand, the CZ-75 is perfectly adequate right out of the box, and so is the Beretta M9 (rather large, but quite serviceable)

There are many 1911's out there that can be "perfect" right out of the box.

Unfortunately my favorite auto pistol, the Browning Hi-Power doesn't make the list because of the safety lever. If you do a proper hold with thumb resting on the safety, the rear section of that oh-so-poorly thought out "ambi" will punish you.

That "Perfect" 1911 would be called a Les Baer. I'm sure many here that own one would agree.

People do mods mainly because they "want" to, not because they have to. With the exception of having to adjust the sights, I've never had to modify a gun I'd purchased to get it to be reliable or accurate. I've only done so to personalize it.

Les Baer 1911

A few.

The Smith M25-2



The Smith P&R'd M629



And the second handgun I bought when I was 17, a M63.

I would say Glock and HK's. I haven't owned a 1911 yet but one is on the list, so I can't comment.

Any Colt Custom Shop piece. Keep it "in the box". The hell with Wall street,gold,silver.

What grips are on the Model 63? I have a couple of 4" j frames that could stand that treatment...

My suggestion would be the Ruger SBH Hunter model. It comes with two grip styles, one of which will fit almost any hand. And it is perfectly suited for the task it was built and named for.

Ruger Single-Six (convertible) 22 LR / 22 WMR.

I had a Colt Officers Model Match 22 LR
which was more technically perfect and accurate -
but the little Ruger SA is more perfect fun.

I agree to with Kevin about Glocks. The stock sights suck. However, with the factory night sights I think they qualify as perfect for duty carry without modification.

By the way, nice to see you on the board again Kevin. It has been slow in the handgun forums lately.

-Z

tominboise-

I was think'n the same thing. nice grips!

I love my 63's. Counting working on farm, fish'n, I probably have carried them more than anything.

Until the Hogs Came!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wife's S&W Model 34-1 right out of the box has always worked.

Any top-of-the-line 1911 usually works right out of the box. If I can get my Wilson Custom I'm sure that'll work right out of the box as they use all machined steel parts, no MIM in a Wilson any more.

I'd have to have a big box.

I can't live with less than I have.

Too many different uses for them. Like you need a tool box, not a single adjustable wrench.

I had a Ruger MK2 Gvt. bull barrel. Most accurate out of the box handgun I owned. Test target was an indication of how accurate it was. Never touched the sights either.

My SW 625 was perfect out of the box, have not changed a thing. My most recent glock is a gen 4 22 and it was close but would still swap out for a ghost rocket and sights.

I agree the Les Baer would be perfect out of the box and for the price I would expect that.

Only two at the house that I have not felt the need to change anything. A High Standard Supermatic Citation, perfect as it came from the box. Did not even need the adjustable trigger adjusted. In 30 years all I have done is shot it. Last year I did replace the recoil spring, as it is considered maintenance. Second is the wife's S&W Model 60, She loves it just as it came. Perhaps the DA could be lightened a bit with a spring kit, but it is not bad at all as it came. Other J frames I have had were not as good.

I have no idea. A cheap gunshow junk box find and they are darn nice in the hand.

Perfect out of the box, several of mine.

Dan Wesson Valor 1911
Smith&Wesson 629-3 Classic DX 5"
Smith&Wesson 629-4 6"
Smith&Wesson 686-3 4"
Smith&Wesson 686-4 6"
Smith&Wesson 36-1 3" heavy barrel

I would concede that my Glock's are almost perfect with the exception of the sights.

Glock with night sites

Smith model 41

Dink

three of mine come to mind:
Smith & Wesson 25-5 in .45 Colt
Wilson Combat CQB Compact in .45 ACP
Springfield XDS in .45 ACP

A S&W M18 was/is the most perfect revolver out of the box I've ever bought.
Best semi auto is a glock 19 that was bought with night sights.

Kevin, thank you for your continuing contributions to this forum. You always seem to post interesting topics.

Being old school, any 70 series 1911 comes to mind whether full size or a Commander. I guess this is why this particular series always brings a premium.

DMc

Right out of the box, S&W 1911 E-Series Bobtail LWT Commander & Wilson X-Tac have both been absolutely perfect in all ways.

Can't rate any Glocks "perfect" due to the [bleep] stock triggers; they all need some level of work & there's just too much variance between them in different guns; close, no cigar.

MM

Several that I haven't felt a need to change -

S&W M-57
S&W M-58
S&W M629 Classic
Ruger OM .41 Mag
Colt Python
Springfield XD-9 Subcompact
Ruger MKII SS bull barrel
S&W M-19
High Standard Sport King (1955 - though I have had to replace the firing pin when the original broke.)
Ruger Super Single-Six convertible
Taurus M-85 SS snubby

I have never owned a pre-lock Smith & Wesson that I did not think was perfect right out of the box.
Without any exception. And I have owned several of them. Still have my fair share of M29 and M629's.
Maybe a dozen years ago when they started putting the lock on them, I stopped buying.

Best one I've had 'right out of the box' was my Freedom Arms M97.

It needs NOTHIN'.........except ammo..

I have one of the old K-22 and they are tops. But the best all around handgun I have ever bought and is still the same as when I bought it is an early Ruger Security Six, 4" barrel in.357 mag. Not exactly a concealed carry gun, but it fits the bill for just about everything else.

The Gold Cup

Snake

My Freedom Arms was not as I wanted it used. However FA reconfigured it for me.

As I was when they were finished it would have been the same as if I had bought it from them to begin with.

With that exception to the question you ask, I would say that my Model 83 is simply the best firearm period I have ever bought. Right out of the box, it's a flawless piece of shooting artwork.

I also bought a S&W 629-4 Mtn Gun which has had a hella tough life. It was packed and dragged all over the bush in two countries. Never had a problem until a month ago with a troublesome ejector.

It was a maintenance issue ( my fault) and certainly due for a complete inspection, cleaning and service. Alex Hamilton ( ten ring) has it now taking care of that for me.

Few handguns have likely been dragged through the bush and put away wet and dirty with no problems for 12 years. It's an impressive piece of machinery!

3000+ Rounds Down My Xd40, Only Two Hiccups That Were Ammo Related. Sits Exactly As It Came.

Both Ruger 1911'S Have Been 100%, But They Don't Have 500 Rounds Combined Id Bet.

My factory armalloyed Model 58 S&W, 4 inch, accurate, indestructible, powerful, and easy to carry under my hunting coat in a horizontal shoulder rig..

Terry

Is it a surprise to anyone else that most listed in this thread are revolvers?

I noticed that too, but then two out of the three I listed are semi autos. Go figure.

May have been discussed but couldnt " perfect" have different meanings. To wit. 'Perfect' to a bulls eye shooter may be different to a street cop, and may be even different to an ipsc shooter

A Walther P-88 C I bought new years ago - was/is perfect.

(I just found it yesterday - Didn't even know I lost it.)

Revolvers are just magnificent...I mean the good ones.

My RIA Tactical 10 has, so far, been perfect and ideal right out of the box. Really good trigger, great sights, correctly timed barrel lug/slide interface, ramped barrel that well supports my stout 10mm loads, sharply checkered grips, semi beavertail grip safety with the bump, ported and lowered ejection port, and accurate WAY out of proportion to its cost! 16 shots at 25 yards into 1 5/8 inch with twelve of those into under one inch. A better shooter than I would likely have put them all into the one inch group. I have been and still am mightily impressed with this import.

Another perfect out of the box gun has been both of the Kel Tec PF-9's I have owned. For a pocket pistol, ideal.

RE good to magnificent revolvers.... I have had the pleasure to own a couple of early Pythons from Colt. WOW is all I can say. I hope to be blessed enough to own another someday.

The 329PD's I have had came close to perfect, but the keylock had to come out, and the sights replaced IMO. That said, the 329PD (ESPECIALLY if I ever see one of the ultra rare 6 inch versions!) another handgun that is on my very short list to re aquire one of when I get half a chance.

My kimber 45 acp

Hello
I feel that the Prefect hand gun right out of the box was a Pre-War S&W K-22 Outdoorsman revolver, Here is one that shipped in 1936. But, Then again the Early Post-War K-22's were just as perfect. Here is one that shipped in Early 1947 that has a Low four digit serial number and is what they call a Transitional K-22 due to it's Pre-War style Mushroom shaped cylinder extractor end...TheGeneral

+1
Yes they are.
For me the good ones are the old S&W's

You know, the new ones aren't nearly as pretty as the old ones, but they are made well and with MIM internals, the actions are smoother than they've been since before the war.

Hello Kevin
I can't agreee with you on a newer one having a smoother action than my Pre-War Registered Magnum. Nothing can compared to the smooth silky action of a Registered Magnum These were hand made, hand assembled and Hand Tuned before they left the factory. This one breaks clean at just under two Pound's of Trigger Pull with Zero Creep.This one left the Factory on December 13, 1935 and is one of only 720 Made the very first year of the Registered Magnum's. To see it up close simply click on it. Regards, TheGeneral

General Stuart,

You have some AMAZING gorgeous Smith and Wesson revolvers, sir! The Registered Magnum is, of the guns you have showed here, my absolute favorite. That one would have to be wonderously fun to shoot and play with.

The blueing on yours is reminiscent of the Colt Pythons of later years, and Weatherby Deluxe and Lazermarks of even now. Dark and shiny and DEEP like the bluing on a gun OUGHT to be! I don't know how or especially why the gun co's ever got away from that! So many guns were sold back them on aesthetic appeal. I remember looking at the Pythons of even the early 70's compared to the other revolvers and the difference was stunning and clear. I still think that Smith and Wesson and others would sell more guns if they looked more like the ones you have been displaying here. I have about had my FILL of 'matte' (read LAZILY and poorly!) finished guns of recent days!

OH, to again be able to again walk into a gun shop and see guns of that class, finish, caliber and style, blued like these guns of yours again, and the smell of Hoppes #9 and Gunslick gun oil in the air..... sigh....

On my last trip to South Central California, I looked for the Weatherby factory store to try to get a fix for this experience, and to my dismay I found NO SUCH STORE in their new hometown (then) of San Luis Obispo Calif....

Anyone here know where to go to re create the experience I am speaking of? Maybe the Montana Rifle co? Dakota Rifles? I feel a road trip coming on if I knew of such a place.

This thread has me thinking about sending of my 'tactical' 10mm 1911 off to someone who can do the olde time deep dark blueing and adding perhaps some real ivory grips to it.

No, no, no...I said smoothest SINCE... Not smoother than; big difference. No out of the box DA revolver has ever had a better out of the box DA action than a Registered Magnum.

They are smoother than a 1950's Python? I have never handled one, so I cannot say. This is a genuine question. I did not think metal on metal could GET any smoother than an older Python.

Another one that has a trigger that has to be felt to be believed is the S&W 52, the bluing is very close to the old Colt blue. I bought mine used, so it did not qualify as "out of the box".

Yes they are.

Wow, sir. That's the classiest thing I've seen in a while. Just beautiful. 1935. Wow.

What's the one in your avatar? Is it even better? Couldn't be. Wow.

For me, most K frame Smiths.

Expat

In response to this thread, I took the Custom Shop Python out last night and squeezed the trigger a few times. It is as close to perfect as I'll ever attain on this earth.

It's going to the range with me next time.

Generalstuart, I'd give my left nut for your registered magnum! (I'm married so I don't need it anymore but I do have to get it out of my wife's purse.) I handled one in my lifetime and it is one of my grail guns.

My vote, to get back on subject:

Revolver---Colt Diamondback (fits my hands the best)
Colt Python

Auto---Glock 35

Coltfan

.

Hello Walker6
Yes that is the one in my Avatar wearing a set of Original Walter Roper custom shooting stock's from the same time span. Here are some better close up Picture's of the Walter Roper stock's for your viewing pleasure. Regards, TheGeneral

Dan Wesson Guardian 45ACP and Freedom Arms 83 6" 454

Wouldn't change a thing! PERFECTION!

I don't tinker/modify them like some on here. For me, if it works properly and I can find ammo that shoots well in it, I'll keep it. Otherwise it will go down the road.

Last two have stayed, S&W 637 and MP9C.

That Smith has to be one of thee finest looking revolvers ever. And I am a colt fan.

Yep, a thing of beauty. Thanks General.

The perfect handgun, right out of the box!!!

That's easy:




DMc

Browning Hi Power 40 S&W

Always goes bang.

Hi Powers just tend to do that!

"Absolutely Perfect" is a tall order. A Cabot 1911 comes to mind.

Best

The one I shoot the most and the only one I have never had an inkling to modify is my cheap little LCR 22lr .

Hello
It's hard to beat any S&W K-22 But Harder yet to find them new In Box 57 Year's old ! Here is a Four screw K-22 Pre-17. These are some what Rare to Locate as S&W dropped the upper side Plate screw in their Five screw variation K-frame's in late 1955 and they started Model stamping the K-22's with the MOD-17 In 1957. So, These Four screw Pre-Model stamped K-22's had Less than a two year window time frame. This one came with the early Post-War up-swept Speed hammer or more commonly called Fish Hook Hammer. S&W started offering Their K-Frame Target Hammer in January 1950 @ $2.50 a Piece as well as their Target Trigger's in January of 1956 @ $3.00 a Piece but they were not a company to waste anything so they often used up existing part's as my Speed Hammer shown if the customer did not specify that they wanted Target Hammer's or Trigger's S&W shipped them out as standard items, or used up existing supplies of Part's on hand to assemble their revolver's with. Regards, TheGeneral











[img]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1956_S_W_K-22_Box_paperwork_and_tools_019.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1956_S_W_K-22_Box_paperwork_and_tools_018.jpg[/img]

That's a good un'.

I'd say any Glock, XD, M&P with N/S is good to go as well.



Travis

My SIG Sauer P220 is out of the box and has the "made in W. Germany" on the slide. I got it in 1995 so I don't know DOM. It, to me, is perfect out of the box. My S&W M19-4 was made in 1980 and has the target trigger/hammer and other than grips that I put on, is out of the box. Those are my two stories on handguns that are about as perfect for me as it gets.

K-22's are just magnificent, but I'd have to at least add a T-Grip, or replace the grips altogether.

I'd say Gen 3 factory night sight Glock 19/23/32 with 5.5 trigge6...and Sig P229 Enhanced Elite.

Lots of guns that are perfect out of the box, but few triggers these days are perfect out of the box.

I'd say Freedom Arms produces perfect out of the box revolvers.

As much as I like Rugers, while I think they are perfectly designed out of the box, they are somewhere between a bit and quite a bit rough out of the box. On the upside, by the time you've worn them in and smoothed them out, they'll still give two life times worth of service.

If by no modiications you mean not even changing the grips then I have had three..an S&W model 41, S&W 642, and a 3" S&W 629-4.

If changing grips is allowed then every S&W revolver I have ever owned. All of them had amazing DA/SA triggers and shot incredibly well from day 1.

Forgot about this one...will always regret selling mine.

4 inch Mdl 57. Best there is.

I'm a diehard 1911- Hi-Power guy, but I just picked up a Gen 4 Glock 19. As far as opening a box, loading a gun, and defending yourself, this one is definitely in the top 5!

Hello
Yup, I have one in Nickel they are much harder to locate than Blued ones. Here she is theGeneral

For me, 4" M686 purchased when they came out. Although I did later "cheat" it with a pair of Pachmayr Grippers?

Nothin' wrong with the pistol, just my stubby meat hooks. ;O)

Haven't done a thing to the 6" M629, aside from shooting it and killin' things with it.

General,

That's cool!