No - not all of them (us). The "what you don't like" thread just reminded me about something that I find really irritating. So many guys think that it is a good idea to buy a gun and immediately begin to "fix" things that he read somewhere need fixing (regardless whether his particular gun needs it or not), using the technique that he read somewhere or heard somewhere..........but would never be done by a competent gunsmith - at least not in that manner or to that gun. I see far too many posts from guys admitting (even bragging) that they have done this. Used to attempt to tell them why they should not - but it usually seems to go in one ear and out the other.

It is for this very reason that I advise inexperienced handgun shoppers to buy new instead of used, unless they have someone knowledgeable in the given design to go with them.

I shouldn't complain though. You should see what some guys do to boats.

Like what?

Let's see....

Probably the one I hear most is polishing a 1911 ramp or "throating" the barrel. Usually not needed, and most likely not the problem....if there is one. Lots of potential to go too far with a dremel, which seems to be a popular tool.

Adding extra-high-power recoil springs. Again, probably not what should be done to fix (or prevent?) a feeding problem. At least it's reversible. Pretty harsh on the gun.

We all know about the abuse done to sears and hammers on various guns, by those who don't have the tools or the skills to do a proper trigger job.

I am not a gunsmith, so I know I can't begin to make a comprehensive list of offenses. But I about gag every time I read the words "buff & fluff".

If you've ever tried feeding flat nosed JHP's through a non-throated barrel with a piss-poor magazine, you'll revise your thinking really quick-like.

Fortunately, virtually all commercial barrels have been throated for some time.

MM

Well, yeah. I should have qualified my remark, in that I was referring to the "throating" of barrels that already came that way. I'm sure you are aware that some guys think it just ain't enough, and don't even know there are proper angles and clearances to respect.

IMO, no one should be touching a tool to a ramp or a barrel unless they have the skill and the tools to check if the geometry is correct.

Yeah, I do agree with that in all respects.

However, taken on the whole & looking at the larger scope of 1911's today...............

There are lots of manufacturers of that model today, & fortunately most are pretty good & the components come from a relatively few suppliers, but not all 1911's are created equal & not all have all the necessary details accomplished to the level of delivering a reliable gun with all ammo out of the box.

If the gun is intended for plinking, then it doesn't really make much difference; if it's a gun that is carried or is a home defense weapon, then it matters a lot.

Personally, on a typical mass produced factory gun, if it's mine, I check all the parts for fit & function & adjust as necessary before it ever fires a round.

On a semi-custom or high-end gun, I inspect it & I just use the mags I like & shoot it, usually with no issues, since whoever built it likely did what I'd normally do.........occasionally there may be an minor adjustment needed or a minor tweak, usually not.

I believe strongly in a polished feed ramp, a polished throat & a polished chamber & a tuned extractor........I was taught that early on in my exposure to 1911's & every semi-custom or high end gun I've seen has those things done, so there is, obviously, validity to their value.

However, I did learn from a number of very talented shooters & machinists who were gunsmiths & I have the tools I need to do what might be needed.

Honestly, except for a few (foreign) guns which had genuine dimensional deviations, I've never seen a 1911 that couldn't be made reliable from a functioning standpoint.

YMMV

MM

Glad you pointed out for the audience that you are, in fact, qualified to do the work.

I question whether fine polishing is necessary for reliability, but it does look nice. And it certainly can be done without harm by someone who has the knowledge and skill. OTOH, I have seen at least one rough-looking ramp that functioned just fine. Not confidence-inspiring on the face of it. No. And I wouldn't expect it to look that way after a visit to a 'smith.

But the idea of Joe New Gun Owner going at it with a dremel until it shines (as is all too common) without even knowing what makes the gun tick - that's what bugs me. I firmly believe this is some of the stuff that gives people the idea that the 1911 is unreliable.

Good thread. I'm not a gunsmith so I leave the gunsmith work to competent gunsmiths.

My Colt Gold Cup gave me trouble right out of the box but to be honest it was designed to be a bulls eye gun and not an all around combat/hunting piece. Wilson fixed that. It's a shooter today.

One of many reasons for going with a Wilson was I did not want to buy a gun and then have to send it in and have it fixed to be reliable. So I just paid the big bucks up front got the gun I wanted and went out and shot it. Good decision on my part.

I don't do my own brain surgery either.

Yep, DD. And if you saved the invoice from Wilson (I bet you did), I would probably not have a problem buying your used Gold Cup (were we inclined to enter into such a deal).

Come on Sam where's the fun in that!

yep there's only 1 DIYguy

I think we're overdue for that thread.

I've seen more than 1 aluminum alloy frame's ramp polished through the (hard) anodizing...........you can probably guess what happens then.

MM

I like my handguns just like my underwear - I don't change a thing!

OK, I admit it. I just dremeled a WHOLE BUNCH on my perfectly good,much loved, awesome feeding RIA 10mm....













On the Rosewood CT GRIPS that I just put on it! I did not and will not touch the metal parts with any kind of cutting tool. The grips were pretty fat and slippery, and can be removed/replaced in seconds with only the removal of four screws. I dremeled in a way for my thumb to reach the magazine button as well as get a better overall grasp of things, and a place for my fingertips to reside and grip on the left panel of the grips. Last I heard, the grips don't have much to do with function so long as one can keep a firm hold of the gun.

I also added skateboard tape to the front of the non checkered grip frame.

Boy you really screwed things up now that gun will never work again.

How you doing BTW?

My dad said "There are 2 kinds of people that work on watches, jewelers and idiots".

I figure that applies to all kinds of repairs...

Been throating barrels and polishing feed ramps for decades, I don't have any tools to check if the geometry is correct. Honestly, I'm unaware of any such tools.

No geometry changes should ever be made. Polishing a feed ramp involves taking as little metal off the feed ramp just to remove any machine marks up; geometry shouldn't come into play.

Throating a barrel that has not been throated means taking the throat that's already there and carrying it up about 80 degrees on either side. The geometry of the throat never chances, nor should there be any less support on the case head. I will check with a fired case periodically, but it's a visual check (you can eyeball down to a thou).

Yeah, I had better go test it out today.

I am feeling a bit worse, have to sleep a lot etc. but I FINALLY have paperwork in hand and all of the approvals (Insurance co, my Nephrologist, their chief of the Kidney Transplant center) to now be an official patient of the U of W Kidney Transplant center aka Virginia Mason transplant hospital. So, whhile I feel pretty craappy a lot of the time I try to live life to the fullest my body will allow me, and I am hopeful and excited about the future now. Getting a Nurse coach conversation today, then off to a 3 day battery of tests and testing to determine my Kidney match markers etc.

THANK YOU for asking!

Well, there ain't much to risk on a chocolate gun, eh?

Kevin, I figured y'all would know I'm not talking about that kind of work. Maybe you haven't noticed as many posts as I have where guys have taken recent production 1911's and as much as admitted to removing enough metal to change the depth, angle, what have you, of the barrel throat and/or frame ramp. Maybe I exaggerate the frequency of it - but I bet for every reported incident, there are several others.

And all I'm referring to is simple measuring tools and math - and the knowledge (or references) of the proper measurements (which would result in the proper geometry). Probably bad terminology on my part.

I know that you know it doesn't require the use of power tools to remove a little burr or minor machine mark (ridge). And I know that you know the difference between a raised edge and a gouge. I'm definitely not speaking to the actual gunsmiths here.

And I fixed that last line for ya, BTW.

I hear ya, and I agree.

BTW, you can eyeball down to a thou; probably have done it more times than you ever know.

Well...without checking it with a measuring device, how would I know?

A lot of smiths throat and polish feed ramps incorrectly. A 1911 does not need a polished feed ramp to function properly. What a 1911 needs is a feed ramp that is the proper angle the proper distance from the magazine. Normally only a few thousandths needs to be removed to acquire proper function. FreeMe is more correct than many are giving him credit for.

When I had more time to waste, I used to do a lot of reading at m1911.org. There were/are a lot of "help me" threads there, and some of the close-up photos would be shocking to you guys. I remember one in particular (I think that was where I saw it) that showed the bottom edge of the barrel actually cupped away from the breech after the owner had dremeled deeply. The excessive clearance to the top of the frame ramp was obvious even to my eye.

Wish there was an easy way to compile all the photos of and direct references to frame ramps that were "polished" (with dremel) into oblivion. Nice and shiny, those ramps. Top edges rounded over, and all. A compilation of those would make your hair stand on end.

And yeah, MM - I seem to recall a few photos of a ruined aluminum ramp floating around there....

JWP's right, it's almost NEVER the feed ramp that is the issue unless:

A - Someone has ruined it
B - It was done incorrectly from the factory.

I've seen feed ramps with BAD machine marks and the gun still fed well. It's usually the magazine, barrel throat, extractor, or breech face if there is an issue; very rarely is it the feed ramp.

Back in the day it wasn't uncommon for feed ramps to need some serious attention on non-Colt 1911's. There were a lot of cast guns that had feed ramps that weren't cut deep enough (not horribly uncommon on Essex), or were under-cut badly (AMT & Vega were famous for under-cutting). The nice thing about Essex frames is if you encountered this (which wasn't all that common), the fix was easy. A feed ramp cut too deep is a cast iron be-otch to fix.

As a gunsmith I recognize that polishing the feed ramp, while unnecessary; is just an expectation from customers. So I do it because that's the expectation. They feel all warm and fuzzy if they can comb their hair in their feed ramp. But guess what, I haven't done it on my 1911's because it's just not needed.

Your welcome. Hope all works out okay for you.

Dang something we both agree on. That's how I ended up with a full ramped Colt 1911.

Here's some bad ones

I don't have the words to express how bad those are............

MM

This one





Isn't just bad, it's dangerous. The throat on the barrel has been RADICALLY changed to the the point to where he has lost a LOT of case head support. That barrel is not safe to fire.

Kevin,

With some of the really bad one's you show here (thank you, BTW). Could the guns be salvaged with the installation of a ramped barrel from a good maker and properly installed? Seems like the only hope for a couple. What say you? Might even be the upgrade the owners were seeking, and really good case head support.

Since my big ten feeds about everything like clockwork, I have left it the hail ALONE.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!

I would think so. Wilson fixed my Colt by squaring up the frame and putting in a ramped barrel. The sucker is a real shooter now.

Yes, a ramped barrel could fix everything.

It did for me.

Those pics give me the shivers... Geez...

HO LEE FLUK

MM was right, words cannot begin to express