The 45 ACP and 357 don't seem to be talked about much anymore. Have they been declining or just about these days.

Where is that?

Here, seems like there are posts on both the 45acp and 357 mag most of the days a month, every month, going back forever. Using the search engine, it would be hard to find a time in the last year they were not talked about.

Sales, it sure seems like both are in the top four or five for commercial ammunition. Both have tons of support with dies and such, so don't see much slowing down in that corner.

Just curious, in what corner do you find the 45acp and 357 mag long forgotten and no longer mentioned?

They're no more obsolete than the 30-06.

That sounds like the old swampy 700

I don't know about the .357 but there are whole forums dedicated to the 1911 and the .45 ACP.

45ACP and 357 magnum tend to be standards other calibers are compared too! Both great cartridges that will be around for a long time to come.

Are you on drugs? Should you be?

The .45 ACP has never been more alive and well in the civilian market, but the .357 Mag is on the way out. Defensive revolvers themselves are on the way out, and the .357 Mag has been no closer than 4th place amongst handgun hunters for decades.

Were are you getting this stat? The .357 is not going anywhere IMO although good ammo can be hard to come by some times.

No.

The .45ACP is one of the two greatest centerfire cartridges ever invented, the other being the '06. The .45 ACP is the preeminent self-defense cartridge, especially when paired with a 1911A1.

The .357 Mag, while beneficiary to mostly undeserved accolades, might just be the best trail gun ever invented. 6 180 grain .357 Mag rounds would convince black bears to look elsewhere for dinner. Loaded with shot, it'll tear the hell outta rattlers and take game birds within reasonable distance. With suitable magnum rounds, it'll reliably take deer. With .38 Special wadcutters, it'll reliably take small game. With .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP +P, it's a pretty good self-defense gun. Add to all of that that it's the largest magnum revolver that probably 90% of all hand gunners can shoot without recoil becoming an issue make the .357 Mag one of the best revolver cartridges ever designed.

Start a thread asking for advice on a hunting cartridge and see how the .357 Mag fares.

I agree, the .357 Mag isn't going anywhere, but its popularity peaked around 1970, crashed during the '80's, and has become a niche cartridge. Kinda like the 10mm.

Not even close to becoming obsolete.......

That's because every billy bob badass thinks he needs a 500 magnum to kill a 150 pound deer.

Two of the most business like cartridges you'll find in my opinion.

No doubt, but whether you or I think it's a good move the .357 Mag has been largely replaced. Once upon a time a S&W .357 Mag was the most common cartridge at the range - everyone had at least one revolver so chambered. Nowadays I might not see one, and I don't know a shooter under 30-years old that has one.

.357 Mag revolvers dominated the LEO market. I can't remember the last time a saw a cop carrying one.

No.

I have to admit it has been at almost a month since I have fired either a 357 or a 45ACP.

Anyone who studies firearms and cartridges for longer than 10 minutes will see the merits of both of these rounds. I can't fathom that will change anytime soon. 357 is the ultimate crossover outdoors/sd cartridge. In the hands of a skilled marksman, it will take any game on the continent. It has.

What does "merit" have to do with it? The definition of "obsolete" is 'replaced with something newer'.

If you don't think the .357 Mag has been almost completely replaced for serious self-defense and hunting use you're in dreamland. That has nothing to do with effectiveness - simply that the buyers voted and the .357 Mag lost.

I guess I live in dreamland, because the 357 is used for serious self defense and hunting by plenty of the folks I know.

This is just a personal opinion, but I think if most people put up with the noise and racket of the .357, they'd also put up with the attendant recoil of something larger....now a down loaded, low flash .357 (38 Special?)still has merit.
I think most use their .357's in this manner as opposed to a 125gr. hollow point atop a pile of H110/296, which pretty much is like nails on a chalkboard, on your eardrums.

The 45 Auto is far from obsolete.

As for the .357 Magnum, it was first touted as the ultimate handgun hunting round, but was dethroned in that by the .44 Magnum. That still left it as king of the police handgun calibers, but when they went to autos it lost its position there too.

No, its still the king in FBI testing protocol and law enforcement track records. That's the reason for the 357sig.

357 makes for a stellar trail gun, which doubles for a good 38 as well.

J-frame 60s were changed to 357 in '96, I believe. There are tons upon tons of those about from the last 18 years of manufacture. One of those loaded up with the current Speer LE 38 135GD short barrel loads make for an outstanding conceal carry handgun for self-defense against two-legged road apples.

They have both been largely surpassed performance-wise by the 327 MAG and the 45 GAP cartridges -

But unfortunately many of the experts here are slow to embrace the future.

Yeah I've heard all the same crap before about the 30-06 and 7x57. Obsolete, surpassed, yada yada yada. Still just as effective as they ever were, and more so, with modern powders, bullets, etc.

Really!? Close to a million LEOs across the USA must be dying to trade in their hi-caps for revolvers.

No, both the 357mag and the 357sig outperform the 45GAP in five of the six categories of FBI protocol testing, plus they outperform the 45GAP in the IWBA heavy clothing test. The only category the 45GAP can hang is the FBI protocol steel testing. In that category they are near a dead heat.

The 327mag was developed by Federal and I do not believe it passed the protocol testing for them to offer a Law Enforcement round in that chambering.

I don't think it was just the "experts" who weren't impressed with what the 327 and 45 GAP had to offer over existing rounds, judging by their meager showings in current manufacturer catalogs.

Been in the business for close to three decades, and yes, quite a number, both new and old, carry a small revolver as their secondary concealed handgun.

What happened to the .357 Mag as the primary weapon?

My thoughts as well.

While this may be true, it's not for good reason, IMO.

I think most of us forget that calibers that may be obsolete for military and police work, works just fine for civilian use.

I have never been a fan of the .357. But it will always be popular.



Travis

Top two performing SD rounds will never die.

I'm not a huge fan of the .357 either.

But I think it makes a great all around round for the guy who doesn't own or want a lot of handguns, especially if he doesn't reload. Makes for a good SD, practice (with 38s), and field gun, all housed in one packable package that won't kick him out from underneath his hat. I always thought of it as the 30-06 of handgun cartridges.

Yes. Very versatile.

Matter of fact, my son has pretty much skipped the 22LR part of handgunning. 38 Specials are what he loves and is learning on.



Travis

Cool! Heck it's just as cheap to cast and reload 38s as it is to pay the going rate for 22 ammo.

I'm sorta having a return to the 38. Been shooting it a bunch lately. Don't know why I gravitated away from it, but a recently acquired LCR and a police trade-in S&W 15 have really got me loving it again.

Shiiiiit. Doesn't get much better than that.

Mini-'flave has been shooting this Model 14. It simply bug holes EVERYTHING we feed it. I picked it up for $375 (?), replaced the hammer and trigger because some dickhead over worked them, I stoned what needed stoning and put 15lb springs in for the return and main. I have a 19 to go with.




Travis

Mini-Flave looks like a Mini-Dirty Harry! Those model 14s are sure nice guns.

With the rise in concealed carry permits across the country and most servicemen being familiar with the caliber the 9mm has eclipsed the .357 in sales, probably by a very wide margin.

But I doubt that the .357 Magnum is going away any time soon. It's like saying pickup trucks are obsolete and on their way out since so many more Camrys and Accords are sold than pickups.

The top two selling vehicles in the US are pickups (F-series, Silverado), but thanks for playing.

The 357 will always be a great jack-of-all-trades.

I've been enjoying the heck out of 170gr Keith in 38 Spl brass, over 5.3 gr Unique, for 1000 fps in the Security Six.

I think you've got it right. The 45acp seems to have been given a boost and now I see lots of factory ammo on the shelves at very good prices. 15 years ago when I was shooting 45acp a lot the situation was different. I'm not sure why folks are gravitating to the 45acp, but the ammo supply indicates that they are.

The 357mag pretty much followed the decline in revolver sales, IMO. It might have seen an uptick when the police agencies were dumping their revolvers into the used market.

Hey, at least I get an A for effort.

So, how many .357 Magnums are riding in those pickups?

P.S. Okay, the F series Fords I can see. But a Silverado?!?!

They aren't rounds for people who blather about minutia incessantly on the internet, they are rounds for people who go out and shoot.

I think out of all the revolver calibers that the 357mag would be the best seller?

Don't see many 44mag, 45colts, or larger handguns. But always see 357mag revolvers.

I'd supsect mostly 38specials get shoot through those 357mag

I sold my S&W Model 19 many moons ago for the cash to buy a Ruger SBH in .44 mag. In Montana that seemed to be the right thing to do. Now though, as an old man who know longer hunts, I wish I had kept the Model 19. Recoil for us old pups becomes more of a problem.

Same here.

I've gotten out of the .44 business entirely after having had a .44 Magnum or Special of one kind or other since 1974, often multiples of either.

The .45 Colt at leisurely velocities of 950 fps or the .357 Magnum also at somewhat leisurely velocities of 1200 fps or so fill the bill these days. The .45 Colt doesn't blast much at those speeds and neither one kicks enough to bother me.

For the old folks here--

Some never left using the classic calibers.

Some have, then came back to them.

Some just added to them.

You can like a caliber without hating another.

But NO, the .357 and 45 ACP is not obsolete. Never will be.

Man I wished I'da knowed the 357 was on its way out. I wouldn't have bought one this summer.

All you guys with extra obsolete 357 brass and bullets hanging around, I'll take them off your hands. Please send to: ......

I've owned a 357 for 20+ years but never shot it much, preferring my 44, 45's and such. Shooting full power 357 in my 4" Security Six is a relief compared to most of my other pistols. I've run several hundred rounds through mine in the past month or so. I'm keeping it. I'll bet a nickel my 184 gr hard cast lead over 12 gr 2400 loads won't bounce off much.

With powder, lead and 22 rf being harder to come by than years past, I've gone to the 357/38 as my primary handgun for target practice. It's such an incredibly versatile round with 100-150 gr cast bullets at sedate velocity for small game and targets, and 170-200 gr @ 1200+ fps for mid size game.

The range I practice at has a plate rack. It has 6 plates. I like wheel guns, not because their better, because their easier to clean and you don't have to chase brass. On the plates 6 shoots is usually all it takes. Hasbeen

Obsolete?

Not in my book.








L.W.

I can't get my 10 year old to chase brass anymore, it's getting tough to get my 8 year old to, 3 year old still loves it....when the youngest gives it up I'm going to revolver's full time.

I'm a big fan of auto rounds in revolvers so it won't be a huge change. Moon clips are great.

I despise policing up brass! I believe my dislike of the practice stems from a hot and muggy day on the rifle KD range, where myself and my platoon mates had to crawl the length of the range, policing up any and all brass we found.

Hence my preference for revolvers.

Revolvers are losing ground every day, so that's why the .357 is declining as a defensive arm (and the fact it's not a great defensive choice, too much noise and muzzle flash).

For law enforcement and military, I think you're going to see the .45 ACP decline as the decades roll by. But I don't think you'll ever see it die; far from it. Civilians still love the .45 ACP and it's an excellent cartridge.

I think there's a good chance we'll see the .40 decline in the next decade or two though. People are starting to realize that a 147 grain, or 124 grain +P 9mm will do most anything a .40 can do with less recoil and far less abuse to the gun.

Stop chasing brass use a brass catcher.

Yep, I shoot on my place. A 16' x 20' canvass tarp over the grass works. Except for one of my buddy's 45 Super. We put the tarp a 1/4 mile down the road for him.

Don't get me wrong, I have 9 autos. But I think if you practice it does not matter you can hit with most anything some one hands you. I reload a lot of 38 spec and 357. I shoot 148's with bullseye in the 38 and heavy loads with h110 in the 357. Hasbeen

If you use full mag 125gr rounds in the 357mag that would be quite a muzzle blast/noise and recoil and probably poor self defense choice.

I think one would be better off sticking to 38spec +p for self defense.

Use heavier magnum loads, ie 158gr, for woods gun. Probably not ideal defense against a black bear or hog but should work on most things, yes?

Odd�the 125 HP was the 'go to' load for years whilst revolvers were still in vogue. It tallied up a 97% 'One Shot Stop' rate�..everything else was a distant second, including the .45 auto.( Who was that that compiled those statistics�Evan Marshall???)
The noise was impressive for sure, but the muzzle blast was not bad if a quick burning powder was used. A slow powder like 2400, or 4227 which is normally used behind heavier bullets, just about make the 125s prohibitive to shoot in the dark, the flash is so bad.

In 38 spec, I like 135 Speer gold dot or 158 lead swc . In 357 most every thing I shot is above 140. Hasbeen

ingwe,

Yes, I've read the hype about the 357mag 125gr loads.

But I've also shoot a bunch of them on an outdoor range in a 4" Ruger GP100. It was daylight and I was wear ear plug and ear muff. And the muzzle blast and noise was pretty substantial.

There's no way I'd want to touch off one of those rounds at night without hearing protection. We'd both be deaf and blind. Plus the perp would need to "stop, drop, and roll" to put himself out, lol!

hasbeen,

Yep

Duty loads out of a 4" barrel is one thing, conceal carry loads out of a snubby is another. All this stuff about insane flame balls that burn out retinas, singe eyebrows, and torch off trees, are about as much pulled out the rear end of a BSer as is the report will shatter windows and fracture the earth.

The standard table for loudness rates a 45acp at 157db, a 9mm para pistol at 160db, a 41 magnum pistol at 163db, and a 357mag and 44mag at 164db. All are loud and beyond the threshold of pain, which is rated at 120db. You'd likely not be able to notice a difference of around 3db. If someone cranked off a round in your direction from gun fighting distance, I seriously doubt you'd discern that decibel difference. Likely in a gunfight, auditory exclusion would kick-in.

As for muzzle flash, current LE loads have greatly improved in this regard with the use of modern low flash propellants. I just ran through a night fire course using a .357sig and a 357mag revolver, and neither resulted in night blindness.

As for revolvers, I do believe that manufacturing reports show more .357 revolvers being made now, and going back for a number of decades than any other chambering, to include 38 revolvers. As for most profitable, both 38 and 357, each, outsell 44mag ammo worldwide. Being the 357 revolver is more popular by manufacturing numbers, most of that 38 is shot through the 357. So, when you add up global sales of 38 plus 357 ammunition, it accounts for a fairly good chunk of sales profitability.

If makers were forced to dump all revolvers and all revolver ammo except for their choice of one mixed chambering. Going by the numbers of sales, they would choose the 38/357 and dump all the rest. But, I don't see the 41, 44, and 45 going away anytime soon, if ever. So certainly, the 357mag is no where even close to being on any chopping block.

Best

Thanks for sharing that load Shane. I recently bought one of those 686 Plus 3" 7 shot revolvers that Shrapnel posted on here last year. I just started casting that 170 gr Keith out of a new Lyman mold - I'll have to give that one a try...

Jerry

I need to order one of those molds.



Travis

Here be one.

You think the 40 is on it's way out in favor of the 9? I'm trying, but I don't see that. I don't see a hot 9 being anywhere near a 40. My favored load in 9 is a 147+P or +P+, and 180 top end 40, and the way they interact with various media when they hit clearly puts the 40 well above the 9.

I don't shoot people, and hope to keep it that way, but by orders of magnitude I'd rather have the 40 and all it's drawbacks than the 9 when my life is on the line.

I know of several shooters under 30 who own 357s. And I don't know that many people.

I had a couple when I was under 30.

My 629 holds a special place in my heart, and will occupy one of my hands on my funeral pyre. But my 586 is what I grab 99% of the time I'm out and about.

I had one as well. Sadly I no longer qualify to be in the "under 30" crowd. Lame.

I'll drink to that. uber lame.

Ok, now I just bummed myself out. Believe I'll grab a beer myself.

Cheers. :hiccup:

HOLY SHEE-IT!! Someone FINALLY said it!

Am I the only person seeing the trend of shooters who spend infinitely more time behind a keyboard than behind a trigger?? It's near impossible to carry on an intelligent conversation because everyone's "knowledge" is either a) opinion, b) read from another internet forum or c) seen in a YouTube video. Anyhow, I digress....

Yes, I think the .357's popularity is waning because it's a revolver cartridge and revolvers are "old", "outdated" blah, blah, blah. The 45 ACP though I think is going as strong as ever.

I have a 45 ACP (Colt Series 70) and love it, but I'm more of a revolver guy.

I have three .357 revolvers, but to me the caliber is sort of in between. Much too loud and blasty for every day shooting, but not really enough for serious hunting.

My extremes are the .38 Special for plinking and fun shooting and either a .44 Special or 45 Colt for hunting.

I'm with ya. 38 Special for plinking/blasting/general everyday use. 44 Special or 45 Colt for hunting or when I really wanna blast big holes in stuff.

Here be another, and I know several more.

It's a good one - holds plenty of lube. I went with the 4 cavity and it casts great out of a Lyman bottom pour. Weight is closer to 166-167 with WW alloy...

Me neither. In fact, I own fewer .357's now than I did when I was under 30....

Jerry, it's a mild shooting mid-range load in the Security Six. I ordered the 170's from Western Bullet Co. in Missoula, and they are from the Lyman 358429 mold.

QuickLoad predicts pressure of 21,600 lbs-psi. That puts it above 38 Spl +P level of 18.5K psi, but well below 35K psi of full house 357 pressures.

Shane

Not for me...we just like to talk about the odd stuff I guess.

That sounds like a perfect combo and makes sense - Lyman #47 shows 5.0 Unique as max for the 38 Spl with that bullet at 860 fps. My mold is also the 358429 - my thought at the time I bought it was a heavier bullet in 357 cases at 11-1200 fps.

Just finished rolling a few with Unique at 4.7, 5.0 and 5.3 in 38 Spl cases...

Could not of said it better myself.

[quote=GunGeek]Revolvers are losing ground every day, so that's why the .357 is declining as a defensive arm (and the fact it's not a great defensive choice, too much noise and muzzle flash).





If you are a Hand loader with multiple guns in this caliber, there is no other cartridge with the versatility of the .357 Mag.

Period.


Except maybe the .22 LR

I teach both civilians & security officers shooting basics. The under 30 crowd has to have a 9MM semi-auto stocked with as many rounds as made. This applies to both guys & gals. I always suggest a revolver in .38 Special for casual shooters, but few listen. At work the .40 Glock has become the standard & is a great caliber. Had an inexperienced female S/O trying to qualify who powder burned her a$$ & put a round into the range floor last week. I frequently carry a .357 SP101 when in the woods or as back up in my truck. Used a .45 in the military & recently purchased a Remington. Both the .357 & .45 will stop most 2 & 4 legged critters with the right ammo.

Did you provide 1st aid?




Travis

My thought exactly.

Crap!
The 357 and 45 acp are gonna be obsolete?
Guess I better sell mine while there is still a market-- like hell.

What kind of brass catcher?



Travis

The FBI and many departments are moving back to the 9mm for a reason over the 40. The 9mm has some very impressive balastics on par or better than the 40.

I also predict the .40 will lose popularity over the next 10 years.

It is a good round, but I think recoil and wear and tear on guns are going to cause a lot of departments and agencies to switch back to the 9's.

Then we'll get to hear "When I joined the force we carried a man's cartridge..." for another 30 years.



Travis

Ding! Ding! Ding! Another winner!

I live in a rural area and have a range at my house. Lots of friends and co-workers, both mine and my wife's, come out here to shoot so I see the above theme over and over. Typically husbands buy their wives some high capacity semi with a grip the size of a beer bottle then bring them out to learn to shoot. I've yet to see one of these instances when the poor woman left any better off than when she arrived. But the same goes for most men. They simply do not understand that they'll never be proficient with their hi cap semis when they only shoot a few times a year, but they're all convinced that a magazine with loaded with lots of ammunition will make up for their lack of skill. My wife's two best friends, whose husbands are also close friends of mine, started out the same way trying to learn to operate and shoot semis. After a couple of counseling sessions with their husbands, they finally wound up getting .38's.

Easy there guy, I think you missed a drop.

This is coming from the same guy that brown bear called out a few years ago?

Here's another--not only under 30, but under half of 30. She's 14 in this pic, shooting her SP101 .357 Magnum.


However, the OP's point is well taken by me with regard to the .357. I'd not so much say it's "obsolete" but more "out of style." Its popularity on a forum such as this is not a reflection of its popularity with the public at large. It seems Joe Public generally wants an automatic chambered in .40 S&W or 9mm.

I think the .45 ACP remains as popular today as it was 5 yrs ago, even 10 yrs ago. When Joe Public opens a box in the ammo section and runs his fingers over a 230gr .45 cartridge, his eyes go wide and he smiles (like we all used to--heck, I still do!)

Anyway, it's a fun discussion. Somebody with the time, ought to track down sales data and see how many .357's are being sold out there.

Carry On!

Take the 9 and 40 both into the field shoot some deer and hogs with both and then get back to us as to how the 9 is equal or superior to he 40. Hint it ain't and never will be.

I only have one Europellet gun. Worthless to me, but it sure is pretty. Browning High Power.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Another winner!!

I like the .357 and 45 ACP. Was shooting both of them a couple of days ago. I like .40 S&W and 9mm. Was shooting the 40 yesterday. I like...I like 'em all.

Would you care to elaborate?

I'd like to hear the elaboration as well.

458 Lott for the record I have a lot of respect for your opinions and experience.

Why is it that when we talk about hi-capacity rounds the age and ability of the shooter always get brought up? They have nothing to do with the subject....

If a shooter sucks with 15 rounds, he'll suck with 8. Knowing that he only has 8 rounds in the mag won't magically make him a better shooter. And it won't make him practice more.

And I've seen the exact opposite as what y'all have in regards to age....Lots of older shooters can't see what they're aiming at or shoot as well as they used to so they switch to pistols with dots and hi cap mags to compensate for their lack of ability.

Age and ability are just nonsense arguments from folks who don't have anything better to contribute.

The age is brought up because so many young shooters seem enthralled by and depend upon handguns with large capacity magazines. Additionally, they seem far more concerned with the capability of sending lots of lead downrange than learning to hit. i.e.- "The greater my ability to fire more shots, the less important it is for me to place shots well."

There are exceptions. My 24 year old son-in-law shoots a hi-cap 9mm but not well at all, but my 27 year old son chose a 1911 and shoots it fairy well.

Is he related to Derby Dude?

Sorry, couldn't help it.

If a shooter wants to learn and can follow basic instruction I can have them hitting very well with just about any style handgun.

Age has never had anything to do with it.



Travis

I was referencing the "fairy well" comment.

C'mon over and teach me how to shoot my J frame Smith. When I dig it out the only safe place to be is leaning on the target.

Bring beer.

Yep.

Dots are for the quick shots. Sight outlines are for bulleyes.

I know a lot of old farts you would not want to get in to a gun fight with.

I don't think the reference is pointing to a general lack of ability in the young 'u s, rather a possible lack of desire to learn to shoot and hit choosing instead to carry handguns that whose capacity will allow lots ammunition expenditure.

Then I'm not surprised at your stance. You guys that are younger than the Glock have no personal memory of when the .357 Mag revolver absolutely ruled the roost. A time when there were no Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, 3rd Gen S&Ws, and Sig was just a toddler.

Sales stats? Start with almost a million LEOs that have 'selected something newer'. The one-time ubiquitous S&W Models 13, 19, 27, and 586 have been discontinued or relegated to "Classic" status or special order only.

Probably one of the better post from a new comer in a long time, and without getting snotty and calling names.

As to the question;



No, neither one! If for no other reasons than there is too many arms in both calibers out there, with both components and ammo comparatively cheap when compared to other calibers in the same range of use. Both are capable and both well stocked.

Phil

I think it's just a tendency for old people to assume that young people are stupid and lazy.

For every young guy blazing away and not hitting anything at the range I can show you an old guy shooting slow and not hitting anything. Same problem, same result, just different methods of sucking.

I'm sure that "once upon a time" everyone was a pistolero and then Gaston came along and ruined everything......

The guy from Beauty and the Beast?




Travis

Easy there whipper snapper! Don't get your Under Armor all bunched up!

I don't think young un's are stupid and lazy....mostly lazy!

Seriously...guys my age grew up watchkng Gunsmoke, Kojak, Clint Eastwood and his S&W 29, etc. Today it's....well...I don't know any of their names in the current action films, but that and video games are bound to have an influence on younger folks and how they choose handguns and calibers.

And something else to remember: at least the old dude missing with his revolver isn't wasting ammo as fast as the Calln of Duty wannabe.

My .357 can beat up your 40 S&W.

From Lucky Gunner out of the Top 10 selling cartridges the .357 Mag placed...wait...

Factory stuff for the ignorant general public shooters.

Hand loaders are in the know!

Yes...and very likely cheap-ass steel case ammo, at least where 9mm and .223 are concerned.

How many posts have we seen in which a firearm/caliber is chosen based solely the cost of the ammunition?

My experiences with the "cheap-ass steel case ammo" are very good; never had even a hint of a problem. Remember, the US used to make "cheap ass steel case ammo" as well.

The .357 mag is the second most popular revolver cartridge in sales behind the first place revolver cartridge, being the 38 Special. Both, individually outsell every other revolver cartridge manufactured and sold. And as far as manufacture of revolvers, the 357 mag revolvers way outpace all other chamberings of revolvers made, to include 38s. So, add 38 Special ammo sales with 357 mag sales, and they add up to a pretty big chunk of both ammo and weapon sales.

So, not sure your point. If you think somehow the .357 is dead in the water, then what do you think of .45s, .44s, and .41s? None of those come close to being as popular in sales and profits compared to the 357. None of those come close to the total number of 357s built and sold each year. I just do not see any of those revolver chamberings going by the wayside, and I certainly do not see the most popular revolver made, probably going back decades into the last century, as being anywhere close to dying out. The gun and ammo makers just plain see too big a chunk of their profit out of the 357 to let it go.

Best

What's popular don't mean what's right.

Stumble into my abode uninvited & you'll be greeted with 45's like a shower head, from all angles.

I had my eyes dilated at my eye appointment an hour or so ago and can't see crap but I can see that and it is funny.

Well guys I went to Ruger site and the S&W site and both have 15 or 16 models of .357 revolvers and I didn't even bother with .38 Special revolvers.

Pretty good for an obsolete caliber.

LEO's carry and shoot what they are issued.
Off duty and back up's are a different story, but are often of a dictated caliber.

I carried one as a deputy sheriff during a hostage situation. I gave my 45 ACP to the chief deputy who responded to the scene unarmed. I had my 3" S&W 66 somewhere you don't show in public but carried it with me to the back door. As luck would have it, the armed hostage taker emerged from that door. Half a dozen guys armed to the teeth at the front door and me alone at the back. I was standing in the shadows and he didn't see me. Luckily, a relative talked the guy into surrendering. I didn't feel under-armed any time I had a .357 Magnum with me. They make a great night light for just a second when fired and hearing protection is a great idea too!

It is much more important to learn to shoot, than the particulars of a handgun cartridge. IF you don't reload, then it is darned smart to choose 9mm, (cheapest centerifre to shoot), over say the 10mm.

Learning to shoot and hitting your target wins over cartridge and platform worship any day.

Doubt either the .357 or .45 ACP is obsolete. I have individual Dillon SDBs dedicated to each cartridge, not that this means much to anyone but me. One thing I do know is how much fun I had shooting .45 ACPs today.



Excuse the photo quality - flip phone modified slightly w/Photobucket.

Paul

I was shooting a LOT of .38specialin the 70's, had something to do with getting it from the S.O. at 1.50 a box. My firearms instructor had some good advice that i never forgot. He said one well aimed shot is worth ten poorly aimed shots. Now his wife used to humiliate new deputies by using a j frame to make head shots at 50yards, she good do it.
I never felt underarmed with a .357 in a one on one situation.
But conditions change. As doc rockett said, enough in there for one confrontation without reloading, but what if you have multiple armed targets.
Now we practiced even then for that situation, but semiauto and hicap mags just do give you an edge.
we use to train double hand, strong hand, weak hand, barricade left side, right side, prone, kneeling at all kinds of ranges out to about 50 yards. I was really laughing hard one day when i took the highway patrol course which is basically draw from the hip and point fire at 5 to 7 yards. Now for those tail light chasers it worked for what they generally would face. We had different situations.
I do have a friend who i have timed. from a holstered revolver, draw and fire and hit six steel plates at ten yards in 1.45seconds. He's getting to be an old guy too by the way for you young hot shot wippersnappers.
i haven't practiced it in years, and surely couldn't do it today, but long time ago i pretty much could do 12rounds on target with a model 19 in about 8 seconds. And I wasn't that good.

Draw from a holster, fire and hit six steel targets at ten yards in under 1.5 seconds? That's pretty sporty...

at the time he was firing probably 30 to 40k a year in competition related events. He did manage to beat rob laetham a couple of times, but as he told me that was pretty rare.

Obsolete??

Gun stores in my area have entire display cases dedicated to the 1911, not to mention the other handgun models chambered in .45 ACP - Glocks, XD's, etc.

Smith & Wesson is still selling revolvers chambered in .357 Mag for $700+.

Electric typewriters are obsolete. .45 ACP & .357 Mag are not.

True .357 is a great round, but who really uses it? That's right. Almost no one.

.45. Almost same thing. Too big for military use, too big for most CCW--yeah there's a few die hards, but most of us carry something smaller. 380 is the most popular handgun among the masses. We're not typical on this forum.

.45 is still alive mostly for certain competitions and nostalgia.

"380 is the most popular handgun cartridge among the masses".

Are you high?

I'll have you hittin' paper plates @ the fiddy after six beers.



Travis

mrm- you do not know what the f...k your talking about. Get out and mingle with real shooters.

Guys I think mrmarklin is talking with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

dd-

For his sake, I hope your right.

Check it out.....


http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/firearms-for-sale/best_selling_guns_2013.cfm

I have an awful lot of things that go bang, not one of which is on that list, i few so out of touch.

Don't feel bad I too have a lot of things that go bang and none my bangs are on the list either. I do have a Ruger single action but it's not on the list.

Current best-selling guns do not equate to best-selling cartridges.

Online retailer LuckyGunner.com, for example, lists their top ammo sales for 2013 in this order: 9 mm, 223 Rem, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 22 LR. Most other lists I've seen from other retailers rank 45 ACP 1st, 2nd or 3rd, but seldom lower.

as a kid 9mm wouldn't have rated a second glance. A few had .45acp, but colt single actions in various calibers were mostly what people had.
then the kframs smiths.
I still think we are reinventing the wheel, a .22 in various denominations, a 30.06 rifle, and a .45colt wheel gun would cover most all bases. But then how would you justify all the other toys?
i should add a 12guage, or 20, but i had to be different and had a 16.

.45 ACP not obsolete, .357 Mag obsolete.

For the .357 to be obsolete either the role it served no longer exists, or something has replaced it.

Not really sure what revolver round has come along that has replaced the .357's role for small game, varmints, target practice, self defense up to medium sized game? Neither am I familiar with an auto loading round that serves the same purpose.

If this is true, then why is .357 mag brass backordered everywhere you look. Starline allocates their raw materials by demand. They say the .357 mag brass is in high demand. I have talked to them in the last 9 months.

It's a statement of opinion. BUT, I've owned (and still do) several 357 mags in both SA and DA, they all spit fire, are way too loud and shoot a tiny little bullet really really fast. .44 Spcl and .44 Mag are better stoppers for 2 and 4 legged critters, and IMHO don't belch flame and noise as bad as the .357, and to me the recoil is not as sharp. One of my favorite's is a 686 SS with a 6" full bbl and full under lug with the original S&W square butt combat grips. BUT, I don't enjoy shooting it so it sits in the safe. To me, the 357 mag died the day the 44 mag hit the market, IMO. Oh, and the brass argument falls flat, the Feds are the ones buying up all the ammo, brass, bullets, powder and primers right now� it's all part of the greatest political conspiracy our country has ever seen� and they know a lot of folks have 357 mags.

I'll just say look at all the 1911s out along with customs, Kimber alone sells god only knows how many guns a year, not to mention all the customs semi customs and other big names. I would say the 45 and 1911 is as hot as I've even seen it. Seems like a new 1911 is out every mth. Reason being, they sell like crazy and 99% of them are, you guessed it, 45acp.

The key with the .357 is to avoid the lightest bullets and slowest powders. With a 160-170 gr cast over 7 gr of unique you drastically reduce the bark but at 1100+ fps it's still a very capable load.

I suppose the most valid criticism of the .357 is that factory ammo choices are lacking in some of the best combinations. But on the flip side that's why I like the .357 so much, with a bit of lead and a bit of powder it offers quite a bit.

It ain't new but it's mine. Built in 1981, acquired by me around 1999.



Second from top. Others are SRH .44 Mag, Single Six Convertible .22LR/.22WM and SP101 in .327 Fed.



Holster was Dad's, a Kirkpatrick Santa Fe.

I think the point is that we on this forum are simply not typical gun buyers/owners.

Joe Average does not buy a 1911. It's too much gun and face it, it's a 100+ year old design. The .357 has fallen victim of the general disinterest in revolvers.

Really? Marines are buying a new handgun in 45 ACP and the Pentagon's follow on to the POS Beretta is going to be in 45 ACP..

The 40 IS a woman's cartridge. It was a toned down 10MM cause the wimmins couldn't handle the recoil when first offered to the FBI after they abandoned the even more effette 9MM

That which is in red HAS to be in the running for the best quote of the year.



It is a curious thing....When I go to the local gun store, I see that they are stocking a lot of .357 revolvers of various configuration. But when I go to the range, I rarely ever see another shooter using one. I have several, but I tend to shoot my autos more. But when I go to the woods, I tend to favor the .357.

I don't know what that says about the popularity of the .357.

The idea that the .45acp is not still popular is just...ignorant.

The .357 and the .45acp have both been talked to death many times over. IF one doesn't see a lot of posts about either, that wouldn't surprise me. The fact that we still do talk about them should tell you something....about them or about us.

You need a high-cap mag, because:

Only one round in seven, fired in a police/perp gunfight, hits anybody.

Only one bullet wound in three is fatal.

Ergo, you need 21 rounds to kill a man (unless you learn how to shoot).