What would you consider the best defense load in a short barrel 45 ACP with 3.0 or 3.3 inch barrel?

bea175, Here are some loads that chrono'ed out my glock 36, 3.7 inch barrel. I wanted the fastest 230gr load I could get for carry. Speer gold dot short barrel, 761fps, Win SXT 836fps, Fed hydra shok 825fps. Rem golden saber 775fps, Win white box FMJ, 775fps. Hope this helps, Blue.

A couple of more data points.

RA45T -- 230gr JHP, Win Ranger T (std not +P)

5" Les Baer 958 fps (5 long paces from muzzle at 80 Deg F)

3.5" Kahr CW45 876 fps (5 long paces from muzzle at 65 Deg F)

Paul

Wow, that short barrel Gold Dot ammo doesn�t seem to beat the standard velocity Gold Dots. Using the 230 grain standard velocity Gold Dots, I got 808 mv out of my Glock 30 with the 3.78� barrel and 782 mv out of a Springfield XDs with the 3.3� barrel.

I went with hydra shok as my carry load since I had the largest supply of them. The win SXT is no slouch either! Thank god we have plenty of choices when it comes to ammo selection and testing!

None of tha so called "short barreled" ammo is faster than a lot of regular ammo. The chrono doesn't lie it just breaks your heart.

I guess that the so called short barrel ammo is not always the best thing in all short barrels? You are right, the chrono always speaks the truth, whether we accept it or not is the question.

I guess that the so called short barrel ammo is not always the best thing in all short barrels? You are right, the chrono always speaks the truth, whether we accept it or not is the question.

I have several friends who carry Colt Defender .45s and all of them carry CorBon PowR'Ball. From a 3" barrel is unlikely there is going to be any expansion in a real body vs. Jello for any ammo.

http://www.corbon.com/corboncart/glaser/pow-rball/pb45165-20

I carry PB in my .38 Super...100 grain bullet at 1525 chronographed...

Bob

I carry the Gold Dot 230 +P in my Glock 36 at the moment.

I pocket carry a second gun -- a CW45 with Buffalo Bore 255 gr hard cast flat nose lead. This is my backup/hand in pocket gun mainly for close encounters. 255gr because always in moose/bear country -- only care about contact range penetration.

FWIW

Paul

Most of use who carry a pistol daily live in Black Hoodie Country not Bear Country

The short barrel was not meant to be faster,but it has a suppressant to reduce muzzle flash..try it out!
I carry the Gold Dot in 185 gr in my XDS
Matter of fact I carry Gold Dots in all my SD guns because it's a damn good bullet and the low flash.
from their web-site...
� True, bonded-core bullet velocity-tuned for optimum terminal performance
� Nickel-plated case
� Low-flash propellant

Great line, John! I'm gonna steal it for my sig line, if'n ya don't mind!

this ^^^^^^

I get a fairly consistent 800FPS with the Speer HydraShock 230 grain, out of my 3 inch barrel XDS.

LBT LFN at 50 yards.

Yes,but I have found Hydra-shocks don't open as much as a Gold
Dot in the short barrel XDS.Massive tissue damage in the right spot is a fight stopper...

If penetration is deep enough, slow velocity and wide expansion mean shallow penetration.

penetration of 5" at 5 to 10 feet is plenty and most likely distance of a SD shooting.
Gold Dots have very good rap from the street...

I run 6 gr W231, 230 gr Ball in my Commander, which is my carry gun. It's accurate & never fails to feed or eject.

I have to respectfully disagree, 5" is insufficient regardless of distance. There is a reason the FBI spent time and money to determine 12" or more is necessary to reach the vitals for a handgun cartridge.

Gold Dots are great rounds, but can fail like any other bullet.

Exactly. 5" is only good for a frontal chest shot without heavy clothes and is a very bad approach. No one knows ahead of time the shot angles or amount of penetration ne ssecary ahead of time.

We're not talking about a firefight here.Short barrel gun= close encounter of the bad kind.Read the post-shooting info on some of the SD shootings..max 7 yards,most 5' to body contact distance.

What LE/FBI have to do is nothing like a civilian protecting himself.Most citizen shooters are in their homes/cars. My 5" statement may be off a bit,however "Gold Dot have proven themselves time after time as reliable,but a head,neck,chest shot from any angle will stop the threat.
Measure your own head or distance to your heart and see where 5" of massive tissue damage will get you.....

Again you miss the point, you assume all encounters are close and frontal. May or may not be the case. Good luck

GoldDots penetrate more than that.

Where'd that 5" guesstimate come from?

My 5" statement is distance to brain or heart when damaged will shut off,either stop working they both die.
I had assumed that since most everyone here knows about bullets, that they knew GD/Hshoks/Golden Sabers/HST's will penetrate over the 12" mark,more than enough to reach vitals after shooting thru leather,cotton hoodies and whatever clothing is worn

LE/FBI have the most experience in shooting people so therefore their information is relevant. Hence where do you get the vital information that Gold Dots are so great?

What difference does the scenario make? A firefight requires more penetration and a knife wielding attacker needs 5"? Maybe a rapist needs 3" inches since he is so close? The logic here escapes me? You are assuming too much in this aspect as well as being able to recognize a threat, make a response to threat, initiating response by getting your weapon drawn from a concealed method, and accurately firing to connect on a head shot/neck shot ect? A lot has to take place in a small amount of time. It is very unrealistic at best. Most police department shootings are dismal on hit percentages under these circumstances.

There are several reasons for low hit rates since physiological responses occur when placed under stress as your heart rate climbs, vision narrows, auditory exclusion, you urinate/defecate as your body prepares for your survival mode. You lose fine motor skills; which shooting is.

I agree most "tackleberrys" want what the police have and demand the same requirements. Yes, most citizens won't come across the situation to warrant firing at a moving vehicle or shooting through barriers to stop a threat? It could happen but unlikely.

Don't put much faith in bullets or cartridges! Your ability to detect danger first, have a proper response, use tactics, and getting off the 1st shot and hitting a vital will give you the best results added with a lot of LUCK to survive a deadly force situation! You can do everything right and still end up dead......remember that!

I hope you got something out of this?

If not well.

Merry Christmas Eve! :o)

Yes,I have had defensive and low-light training,spent my own money to do so. All taught by LE instructions and a few military ones as well.I can give names and hours spent,but it's not needed is it? I too,know how the motor skills go to [bleep] along with a lot of other things.
However,here is my conclusion,you carry what you wish,I'll carry mine and pray we never have to use them....Merry Christmas

Gotcha. I've shot deer with the GDs, and they definitely penetrated more than 5". Can't say how much, though, as they exited the rib cage on broadside shots both times.

Agreed on carry what you want. We live in a Golden Age of bullets. You have to try hard to find one that doesn't work well, especially in the standard calibers and weights.

What caliber and weight did you use on the deer?

.45ACP, 230s. "5, 1911 Gov't Model. I know they were 230s because that's the only weight I've ever shot in that one.

I'm not sure I buy all this 'short barrel' load stuff.

From what I can tell, the whole premise of the short barrel load is about making the smaller handguns more pleasant to shoot.

If I was going with a smaller pistol in 45 ACP, I'd put performance over my personal creature comfort, and go with a high performance load like a 230 gr +P.

Then I'd practice with it to be comfortable with some basic stuff like double tap, failure drill, etc.

There you go again making sense. You should know that doesn't work too well around here on the Campfire.

Sheesh.

Exactly.

^^^This^^^.

Except in a LW Combat Commander.
I've shot a few Whitetails with that same load and I was pretty impressed with the Penatration and expansion of the 230gr Gold Dot + P Load.

I've also killed one small Buck with the 230gr Remington Golden Saber +P load. Expansion was about the same as the Gold Dot load, but with a little less Penatration.
IMO, both of those loads should be great personal defense ammo.
Sure hope I never have to find out, though!

Which 230's?

Um, the GoldDots I mentioned earlier. Speer GoldDot 230 grain JHP .45ACP factory loads from a 5" Gov't Model 1911. Two deer (does), broadside. Both shot through and through.

It's a sample of exactly two, but it's a sample and I liked the results.

Thanks.

No problem. I wasn't, and still am not, quite sure if you were trying to get at something else or not, though.

Just info is all.

I took this hog from my 5 inch Springfield around twenty yards using the Federal 230 gr HST Plus P and he dropped in his tracks with behind shoulder shot. I like this bullet and load. I took the second hog with the Hornady 230 gr Plus P XTP at about the same distant and he dropped on the spot with behind shoulder shot, so if the bullet will go through the gristle plated shoulder of a Wild Boar it should work well on humans. In a civilian self defense shooting i worry more about over penetration than under. Has any one tried the New 220 gr Hornady Critical Duty Ammo in the 45 ACP? In my Springfield Champion i carry the Speer Gold 185 gr Plus P because the pistol likes them so well.

Did any exit? What was the internal damage like? Good shooting on those hogs. This type info is awesome.

IMO the best short barrel load would vary depending on usage Hunting = max velocity with accurcy, self defence = good velocity, accuracy and low muzzle flash . If one thinks muzzle flash is unimportant in a defence load go shoot some in the dark and see how long it takes your eyes to adjust for a second shot with varying degrees of muzzle flash.

Both bullets where lodged under the skin on the far side . Lungs totally destroyed. Federal expanded better than the Hornady , but both worked the same, dead hog at the place they were shot. For self defense i believe you risk over penetration with the Hornady 230 GR XTP over the Federal HST

I have been liking the XTPs in my 45 Super. Ammo today is much better than 20--30 years ago

Thanks for the info.

no problem

Para Ord P10 45acp 3.16" barrel
152 gr. lead semi wad cutter, .569" bullet length
12 gr. PowerPistol
1.275" OAL, Lee factory crimp
Starline 45acp +P brass

If Quickload is altered from 25 to 24 gr water case capacity to
compensate for the thick case walls, then 1,211 fps, 26,027 psi - 1,247 fps, 28.767 psi

chrono 1226 fps, 1257 fps,

Over all length is important in the short pistol for feeding and pressure.

+P brass is important with .235" feed ramp intrusion and .180" web on 45acp brass, leaving .055" of thin unsupported case wall. P.O. can do this for a 21,000 psi cartridge to improve feeding, but at 29,000 psi, I need the thick case walls to avoid a case bulge.

So you are shooting 45 Super pressure levels in the short barreled pistol.

you are pushing the pressure limit in a standard 45 acp

Yep, with a short light slide.

Load up some of my carry loads Bea.

10.0 gr of Power Pistol under a 185 gr Barnes TAC-XP, you'll still get 950+ fps in your 3" gun and it will penetrate with the 230 HP's.

your load is a good one for sure . Number one Hog Killer

10-4, load would also offer you a bit less muzzle flip than the heavies.