Been looking at the .380 line of pistols lately. Which does everyone prefer? I like the Kimber Micro Carry, the S&W Bodyguard, and also the Kel-Tec model. Any others worth giving a good look at? Just wanting something reliable for conceal carry when wearing lighter clothing. Smaller and lighter the better for this circumstance I'd think.

Bodyguard to Kel-Tec.

Also, look at an Airweight J-frame Centennial. They carry remarkably well in the pocket.

Tried most of them and for the size, shootability and sight quality I choose the Kahr P380....headshots at 25 yards are easy...

Has been totally reliable...

Bob

I forgot about Kahr. Did you get a chance to try the Kimber Micro Carry? Just curious. I have not shot it but it feels great in my hand.

Any kind of safety on the Kahr?

I carry the bodyguard in a sticky holster in a front pocket. I like the controls of the 1911 and the bodyguard is as close as i can find for minimum weight/size. I carry mine w/o the safety on as the holster and da trigger will prevent ME from an ad. I have carried it for 5 or 6 years and the only trouble ever was the bolt for the laser backed out early on.

I won't say head shots at 25 are easy....but it is WAY more accurate than I ever thought it would be.

Buy an LCR.


Travis

Or a S&W .38sp Bodygaurd revolver with the factory Lazer. They only weigh 13 ounces and cost about the same as the Ruger LCR, and it comes with the factory Lazer.

+1

To the OP's original question, on small auto's I've been carrying a KelTec, ever since they first came out. It's never failed to feed or fire in all the years I've owned it.
But if I was buying one of the newer model .380's it would be the Sig 238.

I have been more than pleased with my Kel Tec P3AT. I have TRIED TO make it hiccup and have not been able to. Extra light. dissapears into about any pocket, NO STUPID AND DANGEROUS EXTERIOR SAFETY, and blows through even cheap foriegn ammo and +P+ Buffalo Bore carry ammo without ever a bobble.

You do realize the safety can be left in position a or b right? Just cause' it is there doesn't mean it has to be used.

An exterior safety is stupid and dangerous?

Wow.

I seem to recall them being on 1911 style pistols, including that "uber" RIA 10mm.

Thanks for all the info so far! I'm definitely going to keep looking. But for now, I can't deny how that Kimber Micro Carry felt in my hands today. Plain awesome! I just know though that some of the others are lighter and thinner/smaller in size and that bothers me some I guess. Especially when conceal ability is my main concern.

Only 380 I own is an LCP hecause my wife bought it for me

Old School - - Walther PPK/S.

~ ~ http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/087/1/8/ram__s_skull_ppk_by_imorrison-d3cpfb2.jpg ~ ~

If the Kimber feels great go for it... That is why I chose the Kahr over the others it size...it just fit my hand well and I liked the trigger pull.

And no it has no external safety....which I have to agree with safariman isn't the best thing to have on a defensive handgun....and this comes from a shooter who has carried a 1911 everyday for 35 years.

Bob

not much of a fan of pocket carry but If I do It.s a Kahr p380

I'm sold on the new Glock 42.

Had a Ruger LCP and traded it on the 42.
I can HIT Lots better with the 42, it has better sights.

With a Hogue slip on grip, it's also very comfortable to shoot.

Virgil B.

^^^^

Don't tell Safaridouche you like your G42, he predicted it would be a flop.

I'll buy a single stack 9mm if/when Glock produces one. Until then, this will have to do. Haven't carried my Kel-Tec since buying the G42.

I have been struggling with this as of late, many posts are made about the "unreliable" expansion of hollow points in the .380. I have seen multiple posts suggest using fmj or solids of some kind as they are reliable penetrators. There are numerous tests showing the xtp and gold dots and similar expanding and penetrating 10-14" +/-. If a JHP fails to expand, is it less dangerous than a FMJ? I see it as making a hole and performing similar to a FMJ......school me up on my error.

RickyBobby,

I spent a fair amount of time doing trial and error with a number of pocket pistols. I'll share some of my experiences, and maybe you'll find some of it useful.

1. Sig P238 (.380). I owned, shot, carried and reloaded for this gun for a year or so. It shot very well, and I especially liked the "real" rear sight. The gun shot every brand of ammo I fed it, as well as my hand loads. It was easy to disassemble, clean, and reassemble. As you probably know, Sig is VERY proud of their magazines. Factory mags used to cost $36.95 each. I haven't checked on them recently, however, you can use Colt Mustang mags and they worked perfectly for me ($20 ea at Midway). There was some controversy as to whether Mustang mags worked reliably or not, but it appears that discussion was limited to early models. I owned two or three mustang mags and never had any problems. The P238 was really nice to hold.

I ended up parting with it, because I didn't like the notion of a single action gun in my pocket in Condition 1. I'm not saying it's unsafe to carry like that; I just didn't feel comfortable. Also, at the time, I was still on the fence as to whether the .380 was "enough" for self-defense. I didn't have a Dillon 550 at the time and single stage reloading was a pain. Factory ammo for the .380 was about $18 per box when 9mm was about $11. I decided to sell it a try something else.

2. Kel Tec PF9 (9mm). I didn't care for this gun. It looked cheap. It felt cheap. The trigger pinched my finger (it did the same thing to Hickock45 when he did a video about the gun), and the trigger was heavy and gritty (I shot another PF9 and the trigger was just as bad on that one). But…it functioned well and was accurate. I shot it as well/as bad as any other gun.

3. Ruger LCR (.38 Spcl, .22lr, and .22mag). I have owned a .22 Mag and a .38 Spcl. I have shot probably 4 others, belonging to friends and students. It's another economy gun. I've known two to fail. Both were .38's and the cylinder would not rotate when you squeezed the trigger--which can be a problem in a DAO revolver. The two I owned and shot were fine. Ruger, in my limited experience, has great customer service should you need it. The sights are fairly worthless, but likely no more so than on any other J frame gun. The trigger was OK--not terrible but certainly not "great" or even "very good"--just "good." But, don't forget, it's a budget gun. I think LCRs are a very good value (as long as it doesn't break on you). My dad owns one in .22 Mag (not the one I owned previously) and I didn't try to talk him out of it when he wanted to buy it.

4. Glock 42 (.380). I didn't own it, but was considering buying it. Back before the law changed here in WA, I borrowed one to try. My wife, her friend and I shot it. I liked it--it's just a little bit big for a .380, maybe. If you're going to get a gun that takes up that much space, there are a lot of 9mm's out there. But, make no mistake, I liked it. Here is a link to a thread discussing the G42 ad nauseum (my comments are in there if you care).

5. Kahr CW9 (9mm). I've owned this gun, shot it, loved it, then decided it was too big and sold it. Then I missed owning it and bought another--loved it, shot it and decided to get something smaller. But, I still miss it. If you're going to carry in a holster, I'd say this is as good as a choice as any. Nice trigger, economical on the wallet, easy to point and shoot, reliable. I really enjoyed this gun.

6. Kahr PM9 (9mm). This is the Kahr CM9 with polygonal rifling and some other "higher quality" parts. I got a bit of a discount through Kahr's Instructor Program, so I decided to go with the PM9 over the CM9. Since buying the PM9 I've had the chance to compare it side-by-side with the CM9 and would not hesitate to recommend the less-expensive CM9 to buyers. Many people don't see polygonal rifling as an improvement and certainly wouldn't pay extra for it. Kahr trigger are long, but no longer than a Glock. I like how smooth they are. I had night sights put on my PM9 and got a few extra magazines, including an extended 7-round mag. Their extended mag does hold that extra round, but other than that, there isn't much good to say about it. The magazine does not create that feel of extending the grip of the gun; instead it's just a longer mag wrapped in plastic/rubber. I shoot fine with the extended mag, but Kahr just made zero effort to make it asthetically pleasing. That said, I love my PM9. It's currently my EDC gun. It's small, thin, accurate, and reliable. It's a 9mm, which makes factory ammo cheap and affordable--especially if you shoot remanufactured stuff bought in bulk. It's easy to care for--no special tools or special knowledge required. No external safety, but I see that as a plus. YMMV.

7. Kimber Micro (.380). Remember my dad who has the LCR .22 Mag? Well, he thought he should own an automatic. At age 75, he lacks hand strength. He could not work the slide well (if at all) on any short barreled 9mm. So we went gun shopping a few times and last weekend he bought a Kimber Micro CDP . He fiddled with a Sig P238 and the Kimber before settling on the Kimber. I don't know why, but I didn't want to like the Kimber--maybe because I was already partial to the P238. But, as I was dinking around with it at the counter, I liked it. A lot. We got some plinking ammo and some self-defense ammo and headed straight to the range. It shot 50 rounds out of the box without a bobble. It was accurate and easy to point and shoot. It has back strap checkering (made of metal, not the Kimber plastic) and front strap checkering. It's aggressive too! But it won't make you bleed. Recoil is what you'd expect. The external safety is ambi. The trigger is better than average. If you are (1) going to carry a single action with an external safety, and (2) you insist on a .380 over a 9mm, this is the one to get if you can afford it (you pay $400 for the Kimber name). Kimber mags are $20 each for 6-rounders (dad got 2 extra). I haven't seen the 7-round mag since the store didn't have any. He plans to get one, though.

8. Smith 9mm revolver. Owned one and sold it. Read my comments in THIS THREAD if you care.

I've owned a few other "smaller stuff" but not really in the league you're interested in so I won't bother with them.

Anyhoo, I hope this helps. Let us know what you get. 'cuz around here: When you get a new gun, we ALL get a new gun!! Woo Hoo!

Excellent write up that I thouroughly enjoyed! It's these kind of posts that help me make a more informed decision when spending my hard earned money. Thanks a bunch!

I had a Ruger LCP but with my big hands I had to get a mag. extension to make it fit better. I added a laser because of the lack of sights and the trigger pulled was so heavy that it only worked best when I used two fingers (trigger finger from each hand)
In short, it was a cheap piece of junk that was easy to carry and conceal.
I came across the little sister to my Sig 226, It's Sigs 232, this gun is well made, has great night sights, nice trigger pull and conceals and carries with the best of them.
It's a pleasure to shoot.

Me too. I haven't carried the PF-9 or the P-32 since I got the G-42. I do carry a G-27 or G-19 as my apparel allows but the G-42 fits most anywhere. I really wish they would make a 9 of course.

I think they'll eventually come out with a single stack 9mm, but don't think there's anyway it'll be the size of the G42. Lots of guys bad-mouthing the G42 on the 'net because it's "big" for a .380, but IMO, it's great, especially for those who have been training with and carrying Glocks for years. Glock controls, Glock reliabilty, real sights, and disappears easily.

Glock sure does have a huge following ... I need to start taking them more seriously

I went to do just that after work tonight, but the only one they had was the display and the cylinder had rotation marks bad enough from everyone handling it that it turned me away. I'm headed to the big city next week and may see what I can find. Would really like to find a 9mm.

I ain't a moon clip kinda guy.

Just picked up a Glock 42. Have been carrying a Glock 23 and the transition was simple. Yes, it is not the smallest .380 but it fits great and it's still a glock. Lots of other great .380's out there, its gotta feel right for you.

I'm old school too. Two PPK/S Walthers and a Colt .380.

glock 42 all the way. we live fairly close u can shoot one of mine if u chose

Shot the 42 for the first time today, love the little bastard. Got 500 rounds of Gold DOT coming.

I'm not sure anyone answered my question earlier in this post, but does the Kahr p380 have any kind of safety on it?

Hammer less, Double Action Only. Why would it need a safety?

Not sure really ... I guess comfort or peace of mind when carrying with a round in chamber. Educate me. Carrying is a whole new thing for me.

What sights are on your 42?

How does it shoot? Does it jam?

I have heard rumors that the 42's can be cranky about ammo. I work with some guys that swear they can make head shots at 25 yards with their 42's. I find this hard to buy since the same guys can't make head shots at 25 yards with their glock 22's.

I really want a glock single stack 9 but may have to buy one in .380.

Dink

Trijicon HD's.

Mine has been flawless with Hornady Critical Defense, Federal Low-Recoil Hydra-Shok, and UMC ball. Only ammo it didn't like is that Tula steel cased chitt from Wal-Mart.

Mine is stamped with the "1" revision frame/internals, but shipped with very first series magazines. I bought two more "02" stamped mags from Midway and haven't had any issues with either and haven't had any FTF/FTE (other than Tula) or any of the slide lock-back issues with rounds still in the mag.

I don't doubt there has been some problematic G42's, but I think a lot of it is people inadvertently hitting the slide release, limp wristing, cheap ammo, and a whole lot of re-reporting of troubled guns all across the 'net.

"My cousin's uncle's co-worker talked to his brother-in-law who is a cop and he said he was at the range and someone had a rental G42 and it malfunctioned".

As with any DAO, the long stiff trigger pull is your safety just like a hammer less revolver. Should be no worries carrying with 1 in the chamber as long as you keep your finger out of the trigger guard.

I see your point, just not sold on the idea. Not saying it's wrong at all. Just not something I'm wanting to maybe risk. I get some experience carrying and that may change. That Kahr p380 would probably get the nod if it wasn't for that.

Get pepper spray.

Are you carrying the p380 with a round in the chamber? Just curious.

HaHa! You're real funny.

That would be my choice for a pocket rocket.

Five pokes, full caliber 160gr wadcutter at about 1000 fps. Ruger LCR 357.

It doesn't have a safety

That dumbphhuckk is constantly boasting how he carries a He-Man 10mm RIA 1911, which has TWO external safeties (thumb and grip), so I wouldn't pay one bit of attention to anything he says.

How the [bleep] could one have ever carried a revolver?

I know, but cases of 9mm in the garage sure make it tempting.

You know, this does interest me some though. I am familiar with the 357mag and have shot one for quite a few years. In fact, I reload for my 629 revolver and my Marlin 1894. I know how hard the 357mag can hit. I've witnessed it with my own 2 eyes! Now I'm really confused.

I know the story about opinions, azzholes, and doorknobs. Everybody has one or uses one.

For a pocket pistol, I'll take 100% reliability and complete penetration via full caliber wadcutter.

I had a S&W 642 some years back. Sold it. Today I'd roll with an LCR 357 pushing 160gr wadcutters at 1K fps.

A 629 is a 44 magnum. Regardless, a revolver DOESN'T have a safety.

Get the pepper spray.

Kubaton...

Sorry ... meant 686

Still no safety

BaHaHaHaHa!

I really think the Kimber Micro Carry is what I'll end up with anyway. Now I just have to decide on which model. I like that all stainless Raptor with the night sights ... just not sure yet.

Nice write-up, Waders. You definitely dumped a lot of first hand info out of your brain and onto the table.

This is worth looking at if you can find it locally. Some fluff, but good info with all kinds of specs/weights/sizes.

Thank you much! Know where I can look for it? Looks very informative.

I picked it up at Fred Meyer

S&W 642; Ruger LCR.

Cut the bullschit and just get it done.

If you can figure out how to f'k up carrying either of those, you shouldn't be carrying anything other than a spare helmet for your window licking idiot self.

Alrighty then

I know the Op didn't ask, but am I the only one carrying the Taurus 738 TCP ?

No safety, double action only, 10.2 oz empty ( 13 loaded ) easy Crimson Trace adaptable. Slide locks open on last shot.

Mine has been utterly reliable with everything I run in it.

The CT laser sight works incredibly well and really brings out all the accuracy of the piece.

I put my Colt Mustang back in the box and bought a Colt Govt 380. Guess I like the Colts. It fits my larger hands and shots very well. All the neighbor hood cats (the ones left) run when they see me. "Here kitty kitty kitty"

Thanks for the info.

Dink

For some reason Colt is another one I forget about at times ... I'll look them up.

I called my local dealer yesterday and have him pricing several of the 380's out for me. Anxious to hear back from him so I can get a decision made.

How many rounds are these little 380 pocket pistols good for?

.... because I do plan on having some range time

The store about 3 blocks to the east of you.

314

I read on the internet 310 ... so who's right???

The only place of business 3 blocks east of me is a strip joint

Seriously though

2,000 - 5,000 - 10,000 rounds

I wouldn't think the lightweight polymers would last as long, but then again that part has nothing to do with barrel life

... just curious

Several years ago, there was a Rental Glock 17 at a Gun Range in CA that had over 200K documented rounds down range. Don't know if it's still going, but Glocks are Definately the Energizer Bunny of handguns.

Holy Smokes! Doubt I have anything to worry about then.

Really I find it very easy to go through 50-100rds a session with a semiauto pistol. If you do that once a month, maybe more, the rounds can add up quickly

Yes...always...1911, Glock, Kahr...makes no difference.

Having taught CC classes since 1991 I know what you are going through psychologically and I have had tons of new shooters feel the same way about carrying a "loaded" gun. If you would put a snubbie in your pocket you can put a DA semi in your pocket just as safely.

DO NOT put a "safe action" like a Glock of XD in a pocket or IWB without using a holster. There are way too many cases of something getting caught in the triggerguard and discharging the gun... But I have never heard of a DA revolver or semi going off if the gun was not cocked to the single action position. And with the DAO Kahr it can't happen anyway.

Go over to YouTube or LiveLeak and do a search on "shootings", "armed robberies", and see how these actually go down...then ask yourself if you want a manual safety between you and death...

Took a lady who wants to start carrying to a large gun store today...she looked at just about all of the above mentioned guns and came home with a Kahr P380.

Bob

Thanks a TON!

I really am liking that Kahr P380 if I can get past the no safety part ... and you're definitely helping move me in the right direction. I'm especially liking the model with night sights. I think lots of range time handling the pistol and lots of days carrying it and I would get comfortable with it. The "no safety" truly makes sense to me ... just hard to get past right now.

It's pretty simple to pack a small DAO pistol safely in a pocket. Just DO NOT have any other items IN THAT POCKET!

No worry about something hanging up in the trigger guard that way.

Virgil B.

I'd be surprised if you keep putting 100 rounds per month through a Kahr .380, because after the honeymoon is over (maybe around the 6 month mark), you'll start to enjoy shooting it less. The recoil is snappier (is that a word?) in those micros, making extended range sessions kind of a drag (my experience anyway).

Regardless, I wouldn't sweat wearing one out. For $330, if you put 10,000 rounds through it and kill it dead, go hang it on the peg board in your shop and proudly show it off. How many people do you know that actually shot a gun so much that they flat wore it out?!

Go buy another and do it all over!

Anyway...have fun!

Was going to visit a friend tonight and actually carried the P380 tonight instead of the Commander I normally carry...

This is the DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster...it also works just like a Remora IWB holster as it appears to be made out of the same material.





Night sights while not really necessary have a better sight picture than the standard ones...



Bob

That is exactly how my P-380 rides in my pocket. Seems like the hook on mine extends out farther though. Love how it comes out of the pocket with no holster. Cant also think it keeps some pocket dirt out of the pistol as well.

Got BodyGuard .380's for each of my three girls. They have Kimber .45's but none have their carry permit yet. Two working ion it, one lives in MD ('nuff said) but will be moving back to Colorado in a month or two and will get a carry permit here.

My PPK/s has been semi-retired in favor of a S&W Shield in .40S&W. The two are the same size overall but the Shield's trigger guard extends down further, as measured from the top of the slide, so I had to get a new holster.

Isn't Colorado talking about Constitutional carry or is that a pipe dream?

There's a lot of pipe related dreaming in Colorado these days.

One of the legislators has a proposal that would relax restrictions but I haven't read it. I've heard it would keep people who open carry legally from breaking the law if they put a coat on and "conceal" their gun by doing so. Don't know anything else about it.

Hope it passes.

Just sealed the deal on a Kimber Micro CDP w/night sights. It was an Internet transaction so might be a little while before I have it in my hands ... can't friggin wait! I sure hope I take a liking to it. I know the ones I held @ local shops felt really good in my hands, that's the main reason for getting it. Just felt right! Hope it's a shooter. I'll post up pics here when I have it. Haven't added to the stable for some time so it's exciting to me!

I really like my Glock 42,small,lightweight,easy to carry and I like the trigger much better than the bodyguard that I had,now if they would make an internal laser like the other glocks,it would be awesome,maybe in time...