Conceability in lieu of shootability, or vice versa?

Capacity over bore size?


Let's face it no gun is perfect, we all make concessions

For me personally. While the micro guns are nice. My hands are too big to shoot them well. Even as much as I love my J frame. I have to put full length grips on them.

For me, my own "best choice" for a CCW gun is a mid size Glock, caliber not a concern, as I don't buy into the theory that anything other than a micro gun can't be concealed well.
I don't subscribe to pocket carry and have yet to find a circumstance where, in normal everyday street dress I can't conceal a " shootable" handgun in a proper holster.

Reliability at the expense of all others. After that, concealability, then shootability, then a trade off of capacity and performance.

I carry one of three, daily. A 5-shot revolver, a 1911, or a BHP. For me, those three meet all my requirements well and I have confidence in them.

I should have mentioned reliability, but if it isn't reliable it shouldn't even be a consideration

Reliability and shootability first & second in that order. I'm big enough I can usually conceal just about any average size handgun. I'm usually packing either a Lightweight Commander in .45acp or my Glock 32 in .357 sig. And probably 95% of the time! I'm also packing a S&W Bodyguard in .38 special in my left front pocket as a BUG.

I favor shootability under extreme stress, and reasonably effective ballistics. Glock full-size 9mm/40/45.

I don't have any pocket pistols.

First I find something with a big enough grip to shoot easily, then something short enough to get covered by a tshirt when carried OWB.

I find something that says Glock and stick it in my waistband.

This.

Usually it will be a glock 19 with a spare mag or two. It will get you through the night.

Dink

I put 150 more rounds through this little SOB today and it's easily becoming my favorite. It's fed everything I've put through it flawless so far other than cheap steel cased Tula.

Yadda yadda yadda, glock 36.

Reliability is a given so no discussion there.

Shootability & feel; no fan of small semiautos in the least.

Commander 1911, G19 & a Beretta 92 Compact are the three that get the most use. No concealment issue with any of the 3 including with shorts & a T-shirt in the summer.

9mm is the bottom end of the caliber spectrum for a primary.

A S&W 442 as a bug or standalone pocket gun as needed.

MM

Pretty hard to beat! I'm not a 9mm fan, and I much prefer my Glock 32 in .357 sig caliber to a Glock 19, though. But the Glock 19 is easier and cheaper to buy ammo for, and has less recoil for those who are recoil sensitive.

Ranking my preferences:

1. Concealability. I like micros. But it has to shoot a 9mm or bigger. (I'd carry a .380, but I'm too lazy to reload for it, and too cheap to buy factory ammo).

2. Shootability. Night sights are a must, and I have to be able to hit where I'm aiming at.

3. Capacity. I like an auto with an extra mag, but don't feel vulnerable with "only" a revolver.

4. Cartridge. Pretty much anything .380 and above works for me.

With those as the order of my criteria, I typically carry a Kahr PM9. If not that, then it's a 4" Kimber 1911. 3rd place is my G23 but with its 9mm barrel (sometimes I don't carry an extra mag with the G23, since I'm already carrying 16 in the gun).

There are plenty of perfect handguns, but I might have to make a some concessions to what I wear.

Reliability and, when necessary, concealability are the two biggies for me....everything else can shake out after that.

Concealability first...First rule of winning a gunfight, Have a gun. This within reason however...no mouse guns. 38spl and above, beyond that caliber is only marginally important.

Second...shot placement, so I guess shootability. This really isnt the gun as much as the shooter, but the design of the gun does play into it.

Reliability third, important, but realistically one or two shots in most gun fights and it will be over.

Panache! I don't care if it goes off...if I die...it has to be with a .45 in my hand!

Seriously, reliability is #1, Accuracy is #2, Power is #3.

Many guns fit that bill for me. But I won't carry a gun for any reason at any time, that I can't make single shot with, into a 6" circle and 25 yards.

Many people can shoot 2" groups all day long, but if you put a 6" circle at 25 yards, with no target backing and ask them to hit it off hand, you'd be surprised how many miss it the first time.

Oh...and I hate the way Glocks look and feel...but one of the most accurate semi-auto pistols I ever fired (except for custom target guns) was a Glock long slide in .40 caliber. I still hate'em though.

I believe that we are in a golden age of handguns where one does not have to sacrifice very much of anything. Expanding CCW laws and the now expired 1994 AWB that restricted magazine capacity set off a technology explosion in duty caliber handguns. The ground breaking Glock 26/27 gave us compact firearms with decent “normal capacity” and the ability to use larger capacity magazines from their service sized big brothers. In turn, other manufacturers looking for market share built other things that were even smaller and lighter with decent ergonomics. Even the revolver makers got on board with new frame alloys. The ammo makers have enhanced ammo performance for the CCW market, including ammo for non-duty calibers such as the .380. Finally, the holster makers got on board and worked with new materials and new designs to heighten concealment.

I am not that much of a capacity freak. I guess that is because I started out with revolvers and speedloaders. Just switching to an autoloader usually ups the capacity and definitely increases the ease and speed of reloading for most shooters.

For carrying concealed, my priority is concealment. But, it no longer is all that difficult to hide a “three finger” or “two and a half finger” gun in a serious caliber with higher capacity reloads. With a slight bit of warning a magazine swap can occur before the action begins. The newer guns are all rather “shootable,” even the micros if they have good sights (and fit one's hand size). What will change are shot to shot recovery times. While guns and ammo certainly can affect these, so can practice.

I agree with the OP's general firearm size parameters. A micro in 9mm makes a good backup or deep cover concealment rig.

I think anything reliable in the Glock 19 sized platform is a good compromise for autos.

I think the L and K frames are about perfect in a revolver. As long as the barrel is 3" ish.

If all I'm wearing is swim trunks I think J-frames and LCR's are the only options. I don't like pocket autos.



Travis

NAA Pug for a hot tub gun. Inspired by TRH and a wisecrack that I made to the guy with the black powder dragoon in the pirate rig, I put some ammo in a glass of water for 3 days and they all fired the same as dry ammo. A Pug in the hand beats a .45 in a seal-a-meal bag. Free tip for the day. (No, I do not carry in the hot tub.)

Barrel length.

Absolutely----in spades!! In fact we're in the golden age of all firearms, not just handguns-----you can buy a rifle at Walmart that is "guaranteed" by the manufacturer to be more accurate than most "custom" rifles were 50 years ago.
While we can agree that the quality of a new Smith or Colt won't match pre-War manufacture, they're both better than they were in the late 70's and 80's.

As for the rest of your comment------I agree.

……don't laugh…..I'm convinced that if I died while carrying a Ruger for self defense…..I'd spend eternity in a state of suspended embarrassment…..

Yeah I have had to shake my head at city dwelling deputy once. He went to put a deer down with a 40 cal. If I recall he used a mag full.

We asked him why he just didn't put one in the head. The light bulb went off.

Shootability, is number one. Accuracy is second. Size, while it must be reasonable as in no X frames or similar, is not a consideration for me. My three carry gun types are full sized 1911's, Sig 220's and a Glock 20. I shoot all of those better than other guns I've tried and have no problem concealing any of those. For fun, I may try a Glock 17 and/or 19.

I have to have reasonably shootability. I prefer to carry full size guns and frequently tote a G22. I did pick up a shield and find it nice when realistic clothing options dictate a reduced profile. I will not go smaller than a shield and hate the baby glocks. As far as caliber I will gladly carry a 9mm on or off duty but will not go any smaller.

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Probabaly the most unpleasant auto I have ever shot was a G33. Those baby glocks are just too small for my hands

Even with the shield I have to use the extended mag. To be comfortable

I'm with MM on this. Handling and shootablity when under heavy stress. If you need your carry gun, you are going to need it very badly. You must hit something/somebody right or you will be in real danger of being on the losing end of the confrontation.
If it isn't reliable, it is not even a consideration, let alone a compromising consideration.
No little guns for me. Much harder to shoot well when under stress. Everybody I've ever met who really needed a gun and had a little gun, switched to larger, full sized gun for CCW uses after the confrontation.
No Glocks either. I need to be able to shoot cheap, lead bulleted handloads and need a gun that can be used a club w/o coming apart. E

I'm betting you could cave some azzhole's skull in with a glock, and then just need to wash it off before shooting it.

work every time you pull the trigger is my first , second weight i want a pistol light enough i will carry all the time and not be temped to leave in the house or vehicle and third a pistol that hits where you place the sights, to hell with Caintucky Windage, because bullet placement is more important than Cal

You wouldn't cave it with the butt.

I don't mean actually in the water. But for example when we go canoeing and schit like that. LCR and the clip is where it be.



Travis

I tried pistol whipping a coyote to death with my Blackhawk this season.

Takes too long.




Travis

I carry an S&W 1911ES, it's reliable, accurate, concealable and shootable, no tradeoffs involved. I figure if I can't do it with the 15 rounds I carry, I made a bad tactical decision.

Depends how you carry, but for me, concealability isn't the issue, comfort is. I'm only about 160 lb soaking wet, but can condeal a full size Glock 20 or 21 easily, and often do. I carry a G19 almost every day though, partly because it's lighter and a lot more comfortable. I haven't found any reason to go smaller than the G19 for normal attire though.

Shootability is #1...has to have balance and shoot where I look.

Power is #2....while I have a lot of .22s, .32s, .380s and .38 Specials it is rare I would carry one other than a second or third stinger.

Concealability...I believe in dressing to the gun to achieve #1 and #2.

Comfort...is all mental.

Bob

I am still looking for the perfect gun myself! I don't have a clue to what is best. I personally just as a shooter like a consistent trigger pull from first shot to last, a short trigger reset, easily used sights 3 white dots maybe, and as little muzzle flip as is possible.

That is certainly conventional wisdom, but I'll disagree. The first thing is that the gun should be safe. I know a lot of people would say that's a given, but the same could be said about having one that works too. To wit...some guns that work aren't safe. The OP made a comment about a gun not fitting his hands, it happens. You take a very small gun like NAA mini 22's and in the hands of some folks, they're just not safe. Neither are some derringers. It's not ALL design some of it is hand size, dexterity with a particular weapon, etc. Some of it can't be trained either. So I have to put reliability second and then accuracy third. Concealability and "stopping power" could be interchangeable since you could conceivably have a gun that was very concealable yet just couldn't meet minimum standards as far as doing any good if you shot somebody. I personally would carry a .22 LR, but I'd draw the line at a Beretta Jetfire that only shot shorts.

I've got two VERY small guns that I'm unsure of. One is an aforementioned micro .22 that just doesn't seem quite safe when I shoot it. The other is an NAA Guardian that meets all the criteria but also doesn't quite feel right plus is a wicked kicking sumbitch.

Another thing is concealability is seasonal. My S&W M&P Compact is plenty concealable this time of year but when it warms up it will make you look like Wilt Chamberlain when he sees Halle Berry. Then it's time for the SIG 938 and a tradeoff of some firepower for some concealability.

If you have to beat something to death then it's best to pick up a stout shillalah and spare your gun. In two hundred years there will be all these Oriental guys collecting the guns that I used and I don't want them to have to pass on them because they're like them old Colt's with places on the butt where they beat nails into trees to tack up wanted posters. You need to think of your fellow man.

When selecting a beating gun, you need to first ask yourself what BGG would pick when defending his garage stash of warm Miller Light.

No offense but that's just gay as hell.

….then you look like Herve Villechaize wearing Speedo when he sees Halle Berry…. :-)
……………...(or maybe Travis when he's canoeing)……..

Not much of a trade off with a G-23?

Shoots, conceals, capacity, point and shoot. About perfect!

[/quote] Another thing is concealability is seasonal. [/quote]


Unless you are carrying a Desert Eagle, or wear nothing but speedos your statement is false.

You can conceal a g 19 sized gun in a t shirt and jeans
The same as a t shirt and cargo shorts

Of course, there's no easy answer on this because variations in body type/build, preferred carry methods and hot vs. cool climate, make it harder for some to conceal effectively than others. The best solution will always have to be tailored to individual needs.

In my case, I've generally sacrificed capacity for concealability, going for smaller guns like the Kahrs and the Springfield XDs, to name two favorites.

However, I just turned in a review of a new gun that will very likely earn a prominent spot in my carry rotation: the new XD Mod 2 in .45. While it's barely larger than an XDs (standard mag capacity of 5), it gives you 9+1 rounds of .45 in the standard mag and 13 rounds as a backup in the extended mag. Height, overall length and slide width are quite close to the highly concealable XDs. The biggest difference is in the grip width, to accommodate a double stack mag, but it's still slim enough to remain highly concealable. The more I shoot and carry this pistol, the more it has grown on me. 9+1 rounds of .45 in a reliable sub-compact that's surprisingly soft-shooting. What's not to like? OK, the absence of night sights... which is something I'll remedy if I buy this one -- or rather, when I buy this one. Oh, and if you're wondering about holster fit, it works in all holsters designed for earlier XD sub-compacts.

You know, you wouldn't have that problem if you loaded it with matching ammo.

Just sayin'...

what is kind of funny to me now in the age of polymer pistols and the like, is in the old days i packed around a model 19smith all the time, summer or not, and didn't have an issue with it.
today it's a baby glock in model 33, currently in .357sig. With aftermarket barrels in .357sig, .40s&w, and 9mm. With a spare hi cap mag. I kind of think glocks are ugly and have no class. Except mine have always worked_reliability, shoot well enough for me_accuracy, and a lot of firepower in a relative small package. I still think they are ugly tho.

I've been packing a pistol of one sort or another since the mid 70's. After all that, my 'compromise guns' are a Glock 30 with a mild grip reduction and a LCP.

Two friends jumped on the (blowback action) Ruger LCP 380 bandwagon a few years ago
for defensive carry - and soon after complained about the unpleasant recoil.

I don't have a permit to carry, but I mostly relied on a CZ 40P pistol as a defensive handgun
sometimes found in in a jacket pocket holster or under my belt.

I do want to get a CCW permit and I have recently purchased a Sig 290-RS sub-compact pistol in 9MM.
I guess my defensive handgun trade-off is from 40 Caliber to 9MM for a smaller caliber and size
and the additional comfort in carrying and shooting.

Very well said, Dan. I agree completely.