Hey Men, which 10mm do you like on the 1911 platform?

I'm leaning towards the RIA double stack, can anyone tell me if this model is one that offers more support on the case head?

Thanks,
Gunner

I'd go Dan Wesson, Colt, or Kimber - in that order.

If I wanted a double stack 10, it'd be a Glock or an EAA.

+1 on the DW...wish I had found it first!

I owned a Kimber Stainless Target for a few years and shot it quite a bit; I was very happy with the dependability and accuracy with a variety of handloads. Two things I didn't like about it as it came in the box: It came with a standard 16.5 pound recoil spring (which I quickly replaced with a 22-pound spring); and it had an extended ejector. I'm not sure why Kimber used that combination, unless they thought everybody was using Short & Weak loads. Until I replaced the ejector with a standard length one I was spending a lot of money on bus fare to travel and pick up my empties.

I sold the Kimber to a friend a few months ago because I bought a Dan Wesson Silverback. OH MAMA! No changes needed there!

I think the original Colt Delta Elites were a joke if you planned on a steady diet of actual 10mm loads. Of course, Colt built a lot of junk during that time period. I don't have any experience with current production Deltas.

I'm curious as to how well the RIA would hold up under a steady diet of 10mm. The few people bragging on their RIA 10mms on various forums don't strike me as high-volume shooters or handloaders.

Thanks men, sorry to start something then have to run off, I was summoned by wifey to the pea patch, gotdamn it's humid out there today.

Think I saw a DW Razorback in 10mm listed the other day somewhere for about 1400 bucks iirc.

Don't know if I can get by the double stack option, reason is, a bud is after my Sig 226 tac-ops in 40 cal, if I sell, I may as well go up in power with equal capacity.

Yeah, but with the 10mm you don't need the extra capacity, because you only have to shoot it/them once.

If they'll stand still long enough.

Dang Mesabi, I missed this post, Thanks, a lot of good info here, will definitely have to find a 10mm that offers the most case head support, still don't know if any listed above are the ones that offer that, have heard the same on the older Colt DE's, I'll most certainly load my 10mm like a 10mm.

Didn't figure you'd be using many powder-puff loads! The Kimber and Dan Wesson both have ramped barrels with good case head support, far more than the Colt.

I also wanted an adjustable rear sight on my guns just because of the variety of loads I was running through them. (I've settled on a 180 grain Gold Dot at 1200 fps as a "standard".)

Correct, didn't settle for powder puff on that little LW Commander in 38 Super you sold me either, 125 gr copper Barns' at 1341 are the real deal.

That's what I was looking for and didn't know it, ramped vs non-ramped, 180 GD's at 1200 would be a damn good place to be for SD I'd wager.

XTP's work good, too. They can both be pushed harder, but the increased recoil/decreased controllability and possible increased wear on the gun isn't worth it to me... Besides, I don't think that anything that needs shooting is going to notice a 100 fps difference.

I probably DO need to try a Barnes copper in the 10mm, just in the interest of science and mankind's development.

10-4 on the XTP's they are a helluva bullet, and agreed on the -100, they wont care too debate it.

The Barnes will let you shoot a softer recoiling lighter bullet with equal or in some cases better penetration, they are near or at the top of barrier penetration across the caliber spectrum too.

And they're so expensive, you can't afford to miss!

Colt just updated the delta with a beavertail, Novaks, and an extended thumb safety. I have always wanted a delta, but didn't want to send another gun off to get all that stuff done. Now it comes with everything from the factory.

I'm not sure if the lack of a ramped barrel is a problem. Underwoods sells a delta load that is a 180@1240 whereas the regular loading is a 180@1300. Not sure the extra 60fps is that big of a deal. I am sure the Dan Wesson is nice as well. If I wanted a double stack I would (and did) get a Glock.

But Safariman said that his Phirripine RIA was just as nice as all the more expensive custom and semi custom 10s on the market.

The DW Siverback is sure a nice gun and is should be for $1800 or so dollars.

If you're wanting double stack and a fully supported chamber, then it's the EAA Witness 10mm or a Glock with an aftermarket barrel.

The sti perfect ten.

, WORD!

K1500, I have always thought the Colt to be the nicest looking gun, but, I will try like hell to avoid the brass smiley faces, that chit makes me nervous.

Dat cat said a lotta chit, just wish I could have been able to believe it.

the bear story with the mile long cable was the best!

Yes, it is, but, for about 1350/1400 bet that Razorback 10 would treat ya right too.

He must not have known that a mile of 5/8's cable would have to weigh near or over 10,000 lbs.

Dang, not much choice there, may have to look at xp100's suggestion, Thanks XP.

The EAA is a VERY well made variant of the CZ75. Damned good pistol.

I thought it was 2 full miles of cable.

And his story about his keltec sure 16 being better than an M4 was awesome

So I have tried 2 G20's, several different triggers. You just cannot get a great trigger pull in a glock. So I am trying a 44 magnum this time. If it does not work out I will just sell the house and buy a silverback.

EAA as in Witness?

Yep

They were good for many laughs in their desperate states of complicity.

You best check with Mrs. JP first. ;]

If you get an EAA my experience is that you should steer well shy of the polymer framed models, I've had several of the poly 10mms come through the shop that were unreliable garbage. The all steel ones are ammo eating machines, very nice pistols.

Having heard you're a rather big fellow Gunner you might look at the 3rd Gen S&Ws. They are all SS and the one I have is as reliable as a claw hammer. They're just big.

Para-Ordinance made one.

I know it's not a 1911 but Cabelas has a nice used Sig P220 Elite 10mm and there's a 10% off sale till the 4th.

Jerry, as much as you like your P226 you really should look at the P220 10, and I believe they make it in a single action Only model

Not 100%, but I believe the 220 that Cabelas has is a SAO. It doesn't have the de-cocker lever soooo... ?

I actually just sold my P220 Elite 10mm. Nice gun, but I prefer the 1911.

The Colt Deltas tend to be very reliable, and less fussy about mags & ammo than other guns. They do not have fully supported chambers so the heaviest loads are risky. I've owned 4 of them over the years.

The Kimbers do have fully supported chambers. They also have MIM parts and will likely need some tuning to correct fussy feeding.

The DW's are better made, and have better sights IMO - the Silverback is a real neat design - it borrows a lot of styling tips from Nighthawk. I agree the Silverback is a neat choice...The Nighthawks are more highly finished, and arguably are the best of them all.

I've owned a lot of 10mm's. Gunner didn't ask about other-than-1911-designs, but since we're there, the 1006 is the best 10mm IMO.

the Colt Delta is a neat gun, I wonder what types of loads are not acceptable to shoot in them? Are they beyond the max loads you find in a reloading manual? For instance would a 200 grain XTP with 12.5 grains of #9 and 37,000PSI be too much (from Ramshot data). There are 40 Smith and wessons that have higher pressures than that and with this load your shooting a 200 grain bullet at almost 1200 fps.

The 1006 is just a beast. Single-stack, heavy, but will gobble up anything you feed it and always come back for more. Stone axe reliable, and nicely accurate.

Delta's are very pretty guns, but that's about all they've got going for them. The Delta in polished stainless is just beautiful.

The only 10mm I have owned that I had any trouble with was a RIA which would jam frequently. I have had a Delta Elite and a DW Bobtail Commander that were excellent. The DW fed everything I put in it. I am still waiting on Sig to produce their 1911 in 10mm which according to their rep should be soon

The very thought of those 2 words together, reviles me.

MM

Gunner,

Due to the generally good reviews (excluding safaiman's as it was probably all bullshit) I picked up a new RIA 10mm, single stack. It was my second RIA, the first being a 9mm... which functioned 100%. I'd looked at the Dan Wesson's but wasn't sure I wanted to invest that much coin as I wasn't sure the 10mm was a cartridge I would stay with (I've got and am a big fanboy of the 45 Super).

But back to my RIA 10mm... the magazine falls out every one to 5 rounds (yes I tried a diff. mag.), other than that it fails to feed approx. every 4 or 5 rounds. I'm not worried as RIA reputedly has semi-decent customer service so I am confident they will make it right. Still it is one of the few gun purchases I regret. Next time I'll buy once and cry once. If I go 10mm again it will be a S&W 1006, Sig or Dan Wesson.

Dan Wesson does their 1911's in batches, if the supply of 10mm's is low... you will have to wait a few months or so.

Jerry

I would be very interested in a SIG external extractor 1911/10mm with target sights, I might have to get one of those anyway. I am glad I passed on the RIA 10mm!!!

I have nothing bad to say about my Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm, although others might.

I had a electroless nickel Witness Compact for a time. I would advise against one of those. It never did work right and EAA basically told me to go pound sand when I asked them to make it right. I do not believe that pistol has enough slide mass to handle the 10mm. It would sling empties an easy 40 feet. I don't know if it was my shooting technique,or whatever, but it would occasionally staple you right in the forehead with one of those cases...it WOULD leave a mark.

Let us know how that RIA works out for you.

Follow your heart but until you own a Delta you're just another loser roaming the earth.



Clark

I believe you'll see it sooner than you think.

Very true for some.



The Delta Elite is hard to beat. Especially the newest version.

There are some tricks that make it better. The newest version comes with Colt's two spring system. Replace those springs with a Wolf single unit. A full length guide rod helps in my experience also. When Colt used a single spring, it was a 23# spring. Wolf sells a 20#,22# and 24# for this gun. I have had the best luck with the 20# spring when using a square bottom firing pin stop in conjunction.

Hand loading the 10mm.
Use Star Brass only. They use a different grain structure along with heat treating for the 10mm, .460 Rowland and a couple others. Do everything possible to eliminate bullet setback. Clean your fired case completely. Use a polished expander plug to reduce it another .001 or .002. The coke bottle step after seating the bullet is a good thing.

My Delta Elite works well with any jacketed or hard cast bullet that I have tried.

I would agree with Gibby's advice, be careful when loading 10mm - also when shooting it!

Mike

Thanks for the tips Kid, but I'll stay with a 1911 of some sort or other.

10-4 on the canuck model Viking, it's probably better than the RIA.

Tmitch, got a local dealer that said for me to come by and handle the Sigs, he's got shelves of em in stock!

Have to have one without the rail G-12, I'll check em out.

Thanks for all that Tex, did your 220-10mm shoot well?

Have heard for years the 1006's were tanks EE, but, I'm ugly enough, got to have a pretty guns and a pretty wife to offset.

Damn, I was scared I was gonna hear that, thanks pacecars, that might save a man some money on a re-buy.

Yeah, like:
1911/9mm
1911/40S&W

But none are as bad as:

demotardsinvading/Montana

45ACP/Glock

Gotdamn!, strike two on the ria's, thanks JWW.

Looking like DW, or bite hard and get a Nighthawk, or STI.

Thanks kciH, bleve I'm spooked offa the RIA's for now.

Thanks for the heartfelt conveyance.

Appreciate the groundwork tips Gibby, going to try and buy something that doesn't need to be made better, the loading and brass info will be stored.

Thanks Mike, will do.

Safariman loved his.

So technically it's 3 strikes.




Dave

I blew the mag out the bottom of mine right out of the gate.

It hurt.



Dave

It did, I just find I prefer the 1911 over the Sig. Crimson Tide shot it at the Hog Hunt and was hitting stuff at 100 yards quite easily.

after all this talk of bullet set back, bottleneck and subsizing the case I am wondering if indeed the 44 or 41 mags make more sense....

Those gun tips are good with any 1911 to make them better. After all, John Browning designed the gun for half the working pressure. The square bottom firing pin stop was actually in his first design. The pussy's in the Calvary could not cock the slide back while on horseback. He then put the radius on the stop.

And strike three is easily the BIGGEST strike in a quickly approaching quartet.

Bet that mag leaving would turn a hornets sting into straight poosie.

Damn 10-4 Tex, that don't tell me much though, everyone knows CT shoots a handgun like most do a rifle, rockchucker does too.

10mm wouldn't bother me at all JP, now were I loading for a 357 Sig, I'd have to get tips from a bud of mine that rolls his 357 Sig bullets on some kind of a glue pad before loading, no chit.

, Lock those legs out straight, lean forward a bit with reigns in teeth and give her a quick yank!

That would have worked. I wish Ingwe knew that. He was there back in those days.

Ya, but they couldn't keep him away from the wagon axle hubs and lard buckets.

Which one are you thinking of getting?

Right now trying to convince myself Nighthawk.

Wait for the Sig....

The RIA sounds to be a better weapon than my Auto Ordinance 45, I would be inclined to determine what exactly, are the problems before I wrote it off. Could be crappy mags, rough feedramp, incorrect recoil spring.

10-4, may do, gonna be hard enough to sell my 40 to that whining ass buddy of mine anyway!

140 gr copper barns' at 1250 in a 40 ain't gonna feel good either, oughta just keep it, got 300 of those sombucks already hand loaded up.

10-4 RDW, but damn, I like a SD gun to run right, from the get go.

Gotcha, and good point, I do like my G20 and a drop-in 38 Super barrel is cheap

call me an enabler...

Silverback:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/568054314

There's several Nighthawk 10mm's on GB right now, but this one is probably my favorite. Note the similarity between the NH rear sight and the Silverback's

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/567822900

Sure got that right!

Good choice

Now I'm backtracking, another friend of mine told me about how well his brothers RIA 10mm runs, sposed to be reasonably accurate and dead nuts reliable.

I called my gunsmith/ffl buddy, he can get me the RIA 10mm #52009 double stack out the door for 625 bucks.

Nice pistolas Tex, but, I gotta run the Novaks on a carry gun, the bo-mar style sure are big and bulky, even had em dehorned on my old trophy match, still didnt like em.

That would be an immediate and simple end to all the guesswork, I'd have too, a man would be starring numb after writing a check that big for a pistol.

Whats the saying? buy once/cry once.

When have you EVER gone for cheap schit when you can get FAR better?

Never, and precisely why these 14 hour days kicked my butt over the last week or so, We work our ass' off for our toys!

On the advice of 2 of my friends, who own the EAA 10mm, I got the Tangfoglio Witness steel 10mm for $600 OTD, not too long ago, and am very pleased with it. It will replace my 357mag in the woods. I can shoot it more accurately than the 357, and 15 rounds can't complain. I have not tried the hard cast ammo as yet, but will do soon.
I have a Kimber 1911 in 45, and love it, but I couldn't justify the expense of one in 10mm with my budget. The EAA is built like a tank, and will cover woods carry just fine. its like carrying a Govt 1911 in wt.

Dang-it Gunner! Your a bad Influence! And now you've got me thinking about buying another dadgum 10mm

I've already got all 3 Glock models in 10mm plus a Kimber Match 10mm 1911 and the new version of the Colt Delta. But I did not know until this thread that RIA has a new double stack 1911 in 10mm! And after checking on GunBroker just now, I see RIA is also making a Commander size 1911 10mm. So now I can't decide which one to buy yet

Also have a couple of close friends that own RIA 10mm and they both swear by them. Another bud has the EAA steel framed 10mm Match or Target 10mm. I'm not a EAA fan, but I was really impressed with his when I shot it. Very accurate and seemed very reliable to. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy either.

And as a side note, if your not already hand loading for 10mm, I suggest you stock up on AA-9 powder and Hornady 200 gr XTP bullets. All of my current 10mm's love that combo with max loads, and it's sure death on big feral hogs at the Ranch!

I took my old Para 16/40 and fit a Bar-Sto 10 mm barrel and bushing. Shoots great with zero mag mods needed. A switch barrel piece.

Grab the RIA and if it runs, keep it.

If not, try-try again.



Clark

Have heard a lot of good things regarding the EAA 10's Wyogal, me personally, I just can't get past that hard Euro look, I love the way a 1911 feels in hand and shoots.

It's my favorite of all even though it's the only model I've had a few functionality issues with.

And yes, 15 rounds of fast and accurate 10mm would be hard to trump with six 357 mags.

CHLI, ALL this is my beggin buds damn fault, I was perfectly content and liked [still do] my Sig 40 cal for my hi-cap pistol till he came along whining to buy my dang gun.

That pitiful show of his set all this 10MM crap in motion.

That'll work EdM, sounds like a nice set-up, and 10-4 on the turn and possible burn Clark.

Anything a 40 will do, a 10 can do better.....

Yep, but when I am a lazy azz I throw on the 40 barrel and shoot remanufactured stuff through it.

I believes ya CT, I'm having a nice tomato beer right now, you in arms length of a COLD PBR?

No doubt Buddy! I haven't seen much point in having a 40 Lite ever since I bought my first 10mm years ago. Only way I'd pack a .40 S&W would be if I was a LEO and that was the caliber the agency required.

Never fooled with a 10mm CHLI, but, the limited penetration testing I've done with my 40 firing the 140 gr copper Barnes' at 1250 tells me I wouldn't want to fool around and catch one of those either, it's a little meanie for what it is buddy.

I've got an extra .40 barrel for my Glock 32 in .357 sig. I use it some at the ranch as it will feed the CCI 40 S&W shot shells slicker than goose chit.
It's the only semi-auto that I've ever seen that will reliably feed snake shot with out a hitch.
I'll have to get some of those 140 gr copper Barnes bullets and give then a try in my Glock .40 extra barrel. What powder were you loading them with?

Sounds like a plan buddy, I load the 140 barnes' with Power Pistol and Longshot powders, both give equal velocity and accuracy.

The G20 will feed CCI .40 S&W snake shot pretty well, too.

I do so understand about the 1911 preference. You gotta do what works for you.

Hmmm, I haven't thought about that. I'll have to give them a try in my Glock 20 or 29.

My G20 and G29 all did (two 20s, one 29). YMMV, but I hope not. They likely won't CYCLE because the impulse from those loads is too low, but they'll feed if you rack the slide. Never found a semi-auto that will cycle CCI snake shot reliably, regardless of chambering/cartridge.

Don't do it! Wait on the SIG, or buy a Dan Wesson. I would not bet $600 of my dollars on RIA.

For $600, get the G40 and call it good.

I have one of the original Delta Elites and I have no complaints after multiple thousands of rounds of full power 10mm. Have a Glock G20 also and have no complaints. I don't rteload 1omm but I use a substantial amount of Win 175g Silvertips and Prvi Partisan 180 hp. Hot stuff No probs.

the Glock is a great Self Defense gun but even Ted Nuggent has moved on to a 1911 style 10mm...

You assume that means something?

If you want a real 10mm, buy a Delta.

Otherwise, you need a .40.


Clark

After the Witness Compact experience, I'd be a bit gunshy of a Commander format 10mm

Agree.

Get the new model and start shooting, loading and have fun. Lot of bang for the buck. It holds it's value more than the others if that even maters.

yes 4eager, Ted and I both tried a few G20s great gun, great for Self Defense...I was going to try another one (#3) or a G40 with an edge trigger as I have tried a zev and ghost rocket in the other two I bought and sold...but was convinced that you cannot get a 1911 type trigger in the G gun no matter what you do So I opted for a smith 44 magnum but still want a 10mm 1911 maybe a SIG with the external extractor...should they materialize over the next few months..

Lordy, thanks for all the comments and experiences ladies and gentlemen, the choices are far greater than I first anticipated, they all have their certain strong points.

I do know for a fact, I want/need double stack firepower, the most support on the case head, and a Novak style rear sight.

45 Suoer 230 XTP, 100 plus FPS and 10mm XTP, 1300 FPS plus. Same depth of penetration any questions on which one leaves the larger hole?

Agreed JWP, I really used to lean on an all steel 5" 1911 in 45 Super, Starline Super brass and 230 gr FMJ-FP bullets at 1150 were a real eye opener, the 45 Super is a badass for sure.

On my 10mm quest, it's looking like a dang Glock with an after market barrel, that sucks, because a Glock is like aiming/gripping and trying to shoot a damn board to me, they don't fit/feel/point right in my hand.

Gunner, try the Glock Model 40 with the longer barrel and cut for optics already. It handles and balances much differently.

Thanks 4, a 6" gun would be a concern for concealment, no?

I saw a G19 MOS yesterday...maybe a G20 MOS is available..

I'll have to try and get a hand on one too JP.

Dude, you're already a walking tank. Why worry about concealment, as you draw attention anyway. People just know you're carrying.

Maybe I'll grow a ponytail and wear tye dye t-shirts.

Pics or it didn't happen......

George

A tie-dye shirt with Peace and Love on the front, maybe a headband then a G40 in an outside holster plus 2 mag carriers forget the ponytail I am pretty sure most folks would understand

I really like the way my Glock 40 in 10mm points and handles! It has quickly become my favorite Glock model to shoot.
That being said, even though I'm no pip squeak at just a bit over 6' 2" & 240, I'd have a hard time concealing it unless I was wearing a giant winter parka.

My Glock 29 or a full size 1911 is about as big as I can pull off for concealment in T-shirt weather, which is 90% of the time in TX. As big as I've heard that Gunner is, he might be one of the few who can actually pull it off.

LOL K9 and JP.

I may have just pucked it all up CHLI, I got my Sig tacops 40 out before dark last night and ran 4 mags [60 rounds] through it, probably gonna tell my buddy to forget it and keep my Sig, that damn thing shoots straight to the sights, never mind the precise shoots rested off on old Ford farm tractor fender firing at only the silhouette of the small cardboard box at way past dusk.

The gotdamn thing is accurate.
I can shoot it as good as any pistol.
It has never failed in any way.
Got near 300 140 gr Barnes TAC-HP's at 1250 fps already loaded for it.

Chit, hope I didn't waste to much of everyone's time should I decide to keep this pistol.

Oh, and I'm only 12 lbs heavier than you, you can conceal it too.

Gunner, I have 2 Sig P226S, and more and more I find myself carrying them than anything else.

For one I shoot them very well and they are accurate...

2 when we go to amusement parks and such I generally carry in a maxpedition bag and I just feel more comfortable with a da/sa being carried in that bag as opposed to a striker fired handgun.

Carrying IWB in a sparks VM2 I don't really notice the difference between a sig or a Glock

And if I'm carrying my 9, my primary magazine is a mecgar 18 round flush fit and back it up with a 20 round mecgar

I hear what yer sayin G-12, understand and agree, for me, one 15 rounder +1 in the gun and three 15 rounders in my back pocket is a secure feeling out and about.

Gunner.

I think you need a big male German Shepard Dog posing as a seeing eye dog to add to your "out and about" plans. He can help carry extra magazines if needed. They tend to draw attention in a way that would favor you.

LOL on the gist, but, capacity is never a bad idea while o&a.

Is it a done deal, G20?

Not yet, waiting to see the Sig 1911 in 10mm when they come out.

Plus, I was filing the front sight on my Turnbull 1886 in 50-110 Winchester yesterday before dark, I'm working up a new 700 grain grease groove bullet load with black powder, I thought hmmmmm, wonder what this P226 40 cal here in my watch pocket will do at the 50 yard target?

I rested my wrists across a bag, leveled the sights and fired one single action, the 140 gr Barnes struck 2"s low and 2"s to the right of dead center, it's gonna be hard to dump this 40 for a 10.

Gunner,only the 10mm will work for you, everybody knows that a 200 grain 40 smith and wesson flat pointed lead bullet at 1000 FPS will not kill anything.

Technical Information

Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Brass
.
Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 444 ft. lbs.

LOL, that will work too, how bout a 200 gr XTP at 1100 fps with 8 grains of VV-N105?

Straight from their 2006 load manual.

Yeah, you need a 10 mm, that's what all the cool kids have.

But but I heard 1911 and 10mm together sickens some.

Saw a guy 2 stands down from me shooting the Win 175 gr Silvertips today. He wasn't having a problem, either..

There's just too damn many cool guns that need buying Dirt.