Looking for a Glock pistol that can deliver 600-700 ft. lbs of energy.

Considering the Glock 21 in 45 ACP OR Glock 20 10mm.

On either pistol an aftermarket barrel with more case head support will be installed.

On the surface, it seems that the G21 45 ACP with aftermarket barrel could deliver equal power to the 10mm with the advantage of the ablity to use cheaper, more widely available ammo.

Besides the cost of a heavier recoil spring needed for the 45 is there a downside?

You'd want a heavier recoil spring in either one anyway, the 10mm needs it as well.

Either one will do what you want, go with whichever you prefer. Both will benefit from longer barrels, and muzzle brakes help delay the slide unlocking if you can tolerate them.

IMO the 45 has a bit more muzzle flip, loaded to the same power level, because of bullet weight, but that's probably subjective and YMMV.

Thanks!

Not sure what you want to use your 600-700 ft lbs of energy for, but if it was me I would be looking at the MOS system Glocks such as the 41 (45ACP) or the 40 (10mm). They sport 6" barrels to give a bit of an energy bump there, not to mention longer sighting plane and steadier hold, and are also optics ready.

Personally, I want one of each. I'll get one this fall, just not sure which one to start with.

Performance in the field, both will do basically the same job. The .45 has cheaper factory ammunition, but .45 super factory ammo is harder to find and more expensive.

Go with whichever one light's your fire.

One comment about this (not posting to contradict you, but it's something worth considering) -

Slide mass on Glocks is important to delay unlocking with heavy loads. I haven't weighed the 40 and 41 slides next to the 20 and 21, but I think the new models have lighter slides. That's fine for .45 ACP and watered down "10mm lite" factory ammo, but not ideal for heavy loads.

You can't make up for that reduced mass with a heavier spring.

The longer slides are slimmer...

I don't know if they are lighter because they are longer, but consider that the barrel is also a part of the initial inertial mass before it unlocks. Since the barrel is longer as well it adds some additional mass.

So to compare the two, factoring in the added weight of the longer barrel by weighing the barrel and slide together will be a better comparison of the two...aside from actually shooting them side by side.

The long slides seem to shoot the heavier loads fine.

To the OP, I'm not sure what your interest is in achieving 700 ft lbs of energy. ME is way down the scale of evaluating how a round will perform on game.

Much more important in the equation is bullet construction and nose shape, velocity is a distant second, caliber still farther down the scale and shot placement trumps all...500 vs 700 ft pounds makes no difference in the larger scheme of things.

I know that some states have minimum ME rules for hunting, but a load designed to meet the minimum may not be as effective in the hunting field as a better load with less energy, if one focuses only on the muzzle energy factor.

Of course I don't expect lawmakers to understand that.

I view various handgun cartridges as falling (according to muzzle energy) into various power classes; Penetration and expansion being adjusted through bullet design/construction.

I don't plan on shooting dangerous big game with a handgun, but if I did, I'd surely want "magnum power" i.e. > 600 ft. lbs.

Whether I'm "correct" in my preference for "magnum power" is academic because 99.9% of a handgun's job could be done with something like a Makarov or maybe even a Lorcin 9mm.

But a rugged reliable high capacity auto pistol in the 357-41 magnum power class - well, it's useful and interesting in its own right.

Thanks again to everyone for their insight and information!

Good reply night_owl, I agree completely.

Here’s some fodder for your consideration.

I’ve kicked your idea around several times over the years and have thus far just stayed with the .45 acp cartridge. I’ve taken five bucks with my Glocks (G21 & G30) using standard pressure and +P ammunition with 200 and 230 gr JHP’s.

One of my hunting buds has taken three deer with his G20 and 180 gr JHP’s.

All of our kills have been essentially one-shot affairs but he has never experienced full penetration while I achieve pass through performance about 50% of the time. Recovery distances have been pretty much identical with all animals found within 75 yards.

When making these comparisons, it's worth noting that most Glock 10mm's will not operate reliably with bullets over 200 grains or any standard weight bullet (180-200 gr) driven faster than @ 1200 fps. That rules out most of the boutique/specialty loads that are clearly more powerful, but just don’t work well in Glocks.

With these realities in mind, I just don’t see that the 10mm offers any practical benefit over a .45 caliber bullet at a relatively comparable velocity. If I can achieve 90% of reliable 10mm performance with a +P load in .45 acp, I think that’s a pretty good indicator the .45 Super will best the 10mm in the field without difficulty.

With all that said however, I do think the 10mm offers some potential for better is penetration when non-expanding, solid bullets are used.

Lastly, if you really want to experience the maximum performance from the 10mm or .45 Super, I think a ported or compensated barrel is the only proper way to address the inevitable issues relating to reliability and durability of your pistol.

What are you basing these "considerations and realities" on?

My question is what JHP's were y'all using? Apples to apples or other.

I am not taking sides in the 10 vs 45 Super, just wondering. And I think if we move up to the 460 Roland, that is a different animal again.

Good point about the 460 Rowland, which should be noted, since 45 Super can be hand loaded up to that level as long as the barrel has a well-supported chamber. A muzzle device is essentially required too. If I weren't already invested in 10mm, I might go the 45 Super route. But, there's something to be said for 15 rounds of 700 ft-lbs without a muzzle device. And with practice, the 10mm can be controlled well enough for rapid firing. In that regard, it has advantages over the 45 Super/Rowland just like the 9 has over the 40. Or maybe that's just how I tell myself to think so I don't have to switch horses

If your goal is 200 gr @ 1200 fps, IMHO the 10mm is a better choice, if you want 250’s @ 1000 fps, then the 45 super is your only choice.

If your goal is 200 gr @ 1200 fps, IMHO the 10mm is a better choice, if you want 250’s @ 1000 fps, then the 45 super is your only choice.

10mm 180 XTP @ 1300 plus VS 45 Super 230 XTP @ 1100 plus

Same depth of penetration and Ray Charles could see which one left the larger wound channel

A picture is worth a thousand words.

With all due respect, that's a bunch of hooey.

You may have malfunctions with heavy loads and the stock recoil spring, but anyone who spends 5 minutes researching 10mm loads and the G20 should realize they need a heavier spring for heavy loads.

As I pointed out earlier, that's a requirement for either the 45 Super or full power 10mm, and either one will get the job done.

good post, even the .40 smith and wesson is close on the heels of the 10.

The 40 S&W is not even close to the 10mm. Comparing Underwood ammo 155 gr loads for each cartridge shows that the 10mm is far superior to the 40 S&W. 200 FPS and 192 FPE is a significant difference. From the Underwood ammo website.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w-155-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/

Technical Information:

Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 155 Grains
Bullet Style: Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 582 ft. lbs.


https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-155-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/


Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 155 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps
Muzzle Energy: 774 ft. lbs.

10 mm heel nipping 200's LSWC in the shorty 40
200gr TMJ 7.9 gr VV N105 1,116 fps 1.134"

plus several others at 950ish, of course as proven by Clark the 40SW can't kill anything.

I keep reading this insanity on the FBI's choice of the 9mm where they say that surgeons working on gunshots can tell no real difference in what pistol round Boo got shot with, so you have to wonder why all the lyin is going on cause everybody knows how powerful some pistols are

Just think about "can tell no difference in pistol caliber wounding" let that sink in...can't be true.

on the other hand heavier slow bullets do penetrate well if you need to shoot through stuff.

45 Colt Factory LRN 250 950 21.0 penetration of paper, cool Linebaugh penetration seminar stuff.

There's no comparison between the two, except in the bullet diameter. Common sense would dictate that the 10mm has the larger case capacity and that it would handle heavier bullets better than the smaller case 40 S&W.

Underwood ammo provides a great example of this. The 10mm really shows how much more powerful it is than the 40 S&W, especially using heavier bullets. 250 FPS and 250 FPE with 200 gr bullets is a major upgrade in power. The 10mm with a 220 gr load is faster and more potent than the 200 gr 40 S&W load by 200 FPS and 259 FPE.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w-200-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/

Technical Information

Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Brass
.
Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 444 ft. lbs.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-200-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft. lbs.


https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-220-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 220 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 703 ft. lbs.

still its nippin on the heels..and in a much smaller package...or get a 45.

I would not call 200 FPS nipping on the heels. 200 FPS more for the same bullet is a size able difference.

you wouldn't...

but you shoot the 45 super.

edited to add...the .40Smith and Wesson is short and weak, personally after much study a 44 magnum is where I landed in the discussion, but am interested in a model 23 for hiking, black bears and other sub 250 pound animals only.

I use both the 10mm and the 45 Super.
The 40 Short and Weak is nowhere near the equal of either of the cartridges.