I've been blessed I have two sons that are now men. They both have turned out pretty danged good despite having a dad that tended to breathe fire perhaps a bit too often.

Christmas is coming up and they both have expressed a desire to have handguns

That's no problem

Mom has had stuff stashed away for them for sometime for when this day came

What I'd like to provide for them is training and knowledge in the use of said tools

There's the usual suspects thunder ranch etc.

But it's a growing industry

Providing them with a decent tool is not a problem on this end

Providing them with skilset is, Ive taken them as far as I can in what little I know

I'd like to get them some next level help & training. They're close already, and figure a trip together to learn skills hopefully would serve to increase the solid bond that exists already.

So for you guys that have btdt could I get some recon please as to shooting classes ?

They'll be some expensive involved as most likely they'll have to travel for said course, so I'd really like to send them to a good,one



So I'd really like to make sure they attend a decent course

There's a former state trooper that does some stuff in Las Vegas & that's a serious consideration but I'd appreciate the experiences you folks have had with training

Appreciate any advice you can offer

I was really pleased with Gunsite Academy. I just took the 350 Pistol class back in March and it was well worth it.

I would recommend their 250 Pistol course for your boys. It's not cheap and it's a week long, but very worth it.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/250-defensive-pistol-class/

Never attended gunsite. Intended to but just never got around to it.

I have attended some other courses. One I can highly recommend is: https://pgpft.com/

Solid instruction no matter the level of participant. No BS. Lots of shooting and handling of firearms from holster/concealment.

Teaches at 3 or 4 different locations across the country.

Contact Flave tactical instruction and ask about the influenced tactics course. It's hands on experience in tactical applications while shcidt faced


They even offer birthday specials

I've been to a few of the big name schools, but the best instructor I've come across is John Farnam at Defensive Training International.

http://defense-training.com/

gunsite is in my neck of the woods. the gooberment even sends their hitters there.

Thank you gents

It appears I've got homework.

Knew in advance I'm gonna spend some loot x2

But imo&e training can be a more valuable gift than equipment.

Love those guys, they make me feel incredibly lucky & proud to be their dad

A local deputy sheriff got approved for a free ride to Gunsite, and is he pumped!! I can't wait to hear his experience when he comes back..

I took one of vickers classes. I enjoyed that he is a good instructor and a pretty down to earth and funny guys

Shooting schools like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch offer a whole lot more than just the experience of shooting on a square range.

If I could afford it, I'd go to Gunsite every year ..... it's worth going just to see who you might get to rub elbows with.

ETA: If you can swing it - go with 'em.

Would one of you guys please go to this class and tell me how it is? LOL
It's right down the road from me.

http://www.costaludus.com/index.php?route=training/view&path=73_74

I can't comment on the young instructors (Costa, etc.) but I've done most of the old time schools (Farnam, Hackathorn, Ayoob, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite and the late Ray Chapman). It seems like everyone coming back from the Sandbox is a deep, dark ninja-of-death, Ranger-Seal-Recon-Delta-operator and opens their own shooting school to teach the "new technique" of survival. As young men, perhaps your sons would like some of these younger instructors. In the "old days" almost all of the schools were started by competitive shooters (John Shaw, Bill Rogers and Mickey Fowler-Mike Dalton-Mike Fichman) and many of the SpecOps organizations sent teams to these guys for training (one well known competitive shooter/gunsmith lost his 1st wife to one of the Seals that he was training!). None of these guys had ever heard a shot fired in anger (well, maybe Rogers as an x-FBI agent had). JMO, but having "seen the elephant" is not a criteria for a superb weapons instructor.

Farnam, Ayoob and Hackathorn (and most of the young-gun instructors) are on-site instructors----of course, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch are static destinations. The "bonding experience" that you're wanting for your sons will be enhanced by attending one of the static destination schools IMO. Between the two, TR is more modern, newer and Clint Smith is superior to any of the personalities at Gunsite; however, Gunsite is bigger, has more facilities and is the Mecca of shooting schools…….the added bonus (if you and/or your sons are Cooper fans) is that Janel still has an open house for all of the 250 class members at the Sconce (Cooper's house) where students are free to roam in Jeff's gun-room, library/office, etc. She is in her 90's and who knows how long that will continue. The instruction and curriculum at Gunsite is superb. You can't go wrong with either TR or GS IMO.

Good luck with your decision.

There are a lot of different levels of training; the best one depends on the student's experience level. Some classes offered by the big-name instructors are billed as basic, but they move very quickly and you need to have draw stroke and manipulations down cold or you’re going to hold everyone else back. So if your sons are starting out cold, then have a good local instructor get them up to speed stuff in the way that it's commonly taught: the four-point draw stroke, the Isoceles stance, the thumbs-forward grip, tap-rack-bang, lock-rip-work, etc.

Once they’re good to go on that, then a big-name class makes more sense. I’ve trained with John Farnham, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers, and Pat McNamara. I’ve also trained with the guys at InSights Training Center. Each one had strengths and weaknesses, and they all cost about the same. Fortunately, those guys all travel, so you should be able to find something pretty close to home.

As for hardware, give them each a Glock 19 with factory night sights, six magazines, and a couple of cases of ammo.


Okie John

I've taken some training with Suarez International, and highly recommend their courses. Their focus is on fighting and mindset, not just shooting.

What okie john said for hardware; can't go wrong there. Machining the slides for red dot sights should be considered too (but not the MOS system).

What's wrong with the MOS system? I've got several hundred rounds through a G19 MOS with a Leupold DeltaPoint Pro installed and have had no problems. I did use blue loctite and followed the instructions, however, and from what I've read failing to do either leads to predictable results.

The reason I went with the MOS is that I expect my Glock to last much longer than any electronic sight, and I'd rather not have the slide permanently altered.

What about 'flave precision.

Appreciate all the replies

But particularly see the wisdom in okie johns reco to get them local training first and master some basics before sending them outside to some of the name institutions

It would seem to enhance their enjoyment and those such as Leo that are farther along in the disciplines

gmoats yours was a very informative post as well, tho I appreciate everyone's insights and recos

I was a big Cooper fan, and sadly it makes me aware of I've not done quite enough for my lads to appreciate the unique qualities of the late Colonel.

Though my oldest did receive a copy of the art of the rifle with his second center fire rifle, a 30-06 of course

2 things - the sight is less secure, and it sits higher, harder to get irons to co-witness. Both can be addressed, it's just less ideal.

OP - sorry for the thread sidetrack.

….There's probably some wisdom in some basic local instruction prior to going to a school, however I wouldn't worry too much about that if sending them to Gunsite. In our "basic" class we had everything from advanced law enforcement trainers to people who had literally never fired a gun-----their system and personnel worked everyone through their program and they had enough instructors that individual attention pretty much evened-out the experiences. The one obstacle that NO school can deal with is someone showing up to impress them with how much they know and how good they are. We had one of those at GS and another at TR…….Clint uses left-handed sarcasm to imbue humility while GS does enough man-against-man exercises to embarrass the arrogance out of someone. Either would be a great choice, unfortunately, TR fills up so quickly that you almost have to plan a couple of years in advance!!

The best combination of personality and training content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sj6bmEAIzQ

I'm affiliated with the only people I'd recommend for the type of class you're looking for so it'd be pretty self serving to recommend them. I haven't taken any basic classes from the high-speed guys mentioned here so I don't know how they would do with new shooters.

A few things I'd look at in general....

Is the instructor able to deal with new shooters? Some don't have the patience, or knowledge base to deal with new shooters. That's not a bad thing, I really believe some guys have just gotten so used to everyone around them being so good that they don't know what to do with new shooters. It's just something to be aware of.

Is the course geared toward the outcome or the experience? Some courses are more of a feel-good-good-time type of experience that just want you to be comfortable with a gun. Others don't mind hurting your feelings a little, but want nothing more than to see you get to be a really good shooter. Both are fine, but you'll be happier if you choose a class that fits what you're wanting.

Are the course goals realistic? Any "new shooter" class that promises to have you shooting on the move and gunfighting your way to Valhalla in a day is just trying to sell you marketing gimmicks, or they're not going to give you the foundation you need to be really good later on.

Check out the venue. Maybe I'm just a punk, but if I can have a range with at least some shade to take a break in, bathrooms and somewhere to eat pretty close...I'll take it. I don't have to have it, but it sure makes a long couple of days not seem so long.

P.S.--Being a cop, or veteran, or face-shooting, beard growing, tactical god has absolutely no correlation at all to being able to teach. And what you need is a teacher.

The other credentials are well and good, but TEACHING credentials are what matters most in a basic handgun class.

very good points Bluedreaux, I've seen it in other disciplines.

you can be very good at what you do, but that doesn't always translate into being good at imparting that information or ability to others.

If you want some high volume shooting and more trigger time than taping targets and listening to instructors yap, try John Shaw's outfit.

Either Midsouth Institute, in Mississippi or Shaw Shooting in Hagerman Idaho.

Hundreds of self resetting automated steel targets. Press a button and the steel resets itself.

It seems that 50% of typical classes is either taping targets, or resetting steel.

At Shaw's schools, you will shoot more in a compressed time frame, while being critiqued. You don't tape targets or pick up brass, you just concentrate on being a better shooter.

From a cost benefit standpoint, you get a lot more for your money as far as I am concerned.

Thunder Ranch is my #1, Gunsite #2, but open to other suggestions.

I've been to a few run by others, was sent there by the military, and they were good, but keep going back to TR when I'm spending my money.

wow Thanks David, that's good info


and so is yours MacKay, really appreciate the input from you guys that have btdt.