I hear a lot of people recommend police trade-in guns as a good value, and I've even suggested that people consider them myself.

But I've got a couple of pictures I thought could serve as a good warning for buyers. If you are considering a police trade-in just know that it might not be all you expect. I'd get some sort of guarantee from the seller about the quality of the gun before I bought one sight unseen.

Remember, MOST cops aren't gun guys. And SOME cops are lazy and entitled beyond belief. When those two categories collide you get a cop who, even at his own peril, will invest ZERO energy into maintaining the gun he was issued--That you're going to buy.

Must have been his 'throw away' gun...

The same always applies with any used gun, look before you leap.

You know...I have heard the theory that "most cops aren't gun guys" my whole career...and I simply havent seen this to be true.

Perhaps its an issue with locale, or culture, but the cops I have worked with and around have, by and large, been gun guys. Granted, some may like guns more than they know about them, but the number that have issues qualifying, or those that neglect their weapons are far overshadowed by those who go above and beyond. The vast majority of officers here are hunters, and nearly as many are competitive shooters in some fashion.

In my agency, for example, we issue pistols, rifles, and shotguns. Last I checked, well under half chose to carry the issued pistol, and less than that carried the issued rifle, opting instead to spend their own money for the weapons they wanted. We have very nice shotguns, so many do carry them. We have free access to our range, and rare is a time I go there that there arent other guys already there, on their own time. Rarer yet is a qualification day where more than one officer has to shoot the qual more than once to pass, and we even require a higher score than the state standard.

I suspect my agency, and this area, are not the norm. For that, I am glad.

As you should be.

I used to be the medic on a SWAT team, and those were gun guys...and they really couldn't shoot all that well. For the regular city police guys, they were pretty poor at the range.

But the strangest thing. When I responded to officer involved shootings, every patient I had that was shot by city PD was shoot VERY well. So I guess they had it when they needed it.

SWAT guys definitely got the job done regardless of their prowess (or lack thereof) at the range.

Bluedreaux, where did you come across that poor neglected pistol? Hard to believe someone that may need it to stay alive treats a firearm that way, but some folks refuse to see reality until it whacks them - sometimes literally.

FWIW, I believe where you purchase a trade in from might make quite a bit of difference in this regard.

some of the Glock trade in pistols have not looked too bad. That gun must be a New Orleans Police Hurricane Katrina trade in.

Haha, I bet he inspected some paper pushing management levels pistol. Just a guess.

this one has been a good one. I bought it during the Clinton reign when the gun companys were trading new guns for the LEO guns so they could get the grandfathered hi-cap magazines.

Have to agree that 95+% of officers are not gun people....just because you choose to own your own gun doesn't make you a gun person.

I worked on a 38 man force...36 didn't carry off duty. All guns were city issue. Range was open any time you wanted to go down and shoot...I and one other officer were about the only ones who used the range. There were only a couple of guys that hunted.

Another department, 68 officers and only three carried off duty. Issue gun was a revolver but you could buy and carry almost anything you wanted in 9mm or .45. Well over 50% had their own semis and it was the only gun they owned. Most could barely qualify.

I've talked to dozens of LEO instructors over the years...most are not gun people. I just about always ask what percentage of their officers carry off duty...usually it is less than 10%.

Yesterday I visited with a childhood friend who I had not seen in about 25 years. He did over 20 years on a large department outside Hartford, Ct. He told me about a sergeant who retied and left his gun/belt rig hanging in his locker when he left...the gun had become fused to the holster and had to be cut out. Guy had gotten away without qualifying for at least 10 years...

Bob

That picture should qualify as domestic abuse.

It's true in places like NYC. They typically are gun ignorant, and only shoot enough to qualify when called upon. Then, the only gun they know anything about is their particular issue gun, and not much about that.

I used to shoot at a Long Island range where NYC cops (those that commuted from the Island) would often go to prepare for annual qualifications. I could take most of their service guns and shoot groups half the size of those they were shooting. Try to discuss any gun question with them, and if it wasn't about their specific sidearm, they hadn't a clue ... like talking to your typical man on the street about guns.

It was policy for their police psychologists to screen applicants. Part of the process was to ask them about their shooting experience. Basically, if they appeared to have any interest in firearms at all, they were eliminated from consideration.

Like I stated earlier...I am sure it depends greatly on region, and the societal norms within that area. I can recall one new officer in the last fourteen years who had never fired a handgun. One. Hell, around here, most people are gun people, and thats the pool we hire from.

Off duty carry? In a 50ish man agency, I would estimate that we stand somewhere near 90%, maybe greater. The majority of our officers carry backup guns. We issue GLock 17s and 22s, so choosing to carry your own handgun is not a reaction to poor equipment. Our agency provides every single officer 1200rds of handgun ammo per year, in addition to and independent of any ammo needed to qualify or train during formal training sessions.

I am fortunate to work for such a firearm centric agency.

I have never really liked buying a gun I could not handle and look at in person.

Most police trade in guns sit in the back room of a gun store for a very long time before they are even looked at by the owner. I would suspect that was the cause of the issue noted rather than neglect by the officer. The rust on that pistol doesn't look like it came from sitting in a holster and more like being stacked in a box likely in a moisture saturated room.

I bought a used M&P 9mm from Bud's last summer. It was in good condition, though dirty, and I think the magazines were from a qualification range pooling of said magazines (one was painted on the baseplate).

On the whole, it was in excellent shape, though I had to swap over the magazine catch, as it was probably issued to a lefty at one point. He sure didn't bother to clean it, but it was no trick to do that.

No rust, and the bluing on the barrel at the ejection port looked new. The night sights had faded, and I haven't replaced them yet, and might not, dunno yet.

I got a pretty smokin' deal on the pistol and three magazines, box, backstraps, and manual, for $350, so I can't fuss about it. It feels better to me than a Glock, and while I'm not emotionally attached to it, I like it plenty. It shoots "okay", it ain't no tuned up 1911, but it'll do.

Bluedreaux: As with most all broad and sweeping generalizations yours is NOT correct!
I spent 29 years being and interacting with all manner of law enforcement types then spent twelve more years doing body guard and robbery suppression work with more law enforcement (mostly retired) types!
I NEVER once saw a gun in the possession or use of any of these MANY hundreds (thousands!) of law enforcement types that comes anywhere NEAR what you show/allude to/contend!
NEVER ONCE!
And as I review my firearms inventory I see 6 (six!) pistols that I purchased over the past 4 decades from Law Enforcement agencies two are Glocks and four are Smith & Wessons!
All, let me repeat, ALL of them are in excellent to new unfired condition!
NONE, let me repeat, NONE of them are in the condition you depict!
Nor have I ever seen a police surplus arm that was for sale in the condition you depict!
Sheesh!
I run with about 35 ex-law enforcement types (F.B.I., D.E.A., State Patrol Officers, County Sheriffs, City police and two Military Police Officers - most all of whom are retired now like me but some active) currently and without exception they are safe gun handlers and take VERY good care of their firearms both handguns and long-guns!
Like others posted buyer beware - and sure look for signs of over-use and holster wear but finding an example like you depict is rare!
At least I have never seen such.
That gun you depict is suffering for poor or long term storage among other things IMO.
I completely disagree with your premise/contention.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

After twenty years of being a State Trooper I know some of my fellow Troops aren't gun nuts but they still take care of their equipment. They have to as it gets inspected regularly. With that I wouldn't buy anything used from a police agency. The stuff has a life cycle for a reason. To me buying a used pistol from a police department is like buying an old police car. What do you think you're going to get. Cops are hard on equipment because they use the hell out of it.

Look, we all know you're an idiot, but here's a clue - Bluedreaux IS a cop.

...like lillysdad said...it all depends on your location...

I talk to LEOs and instructors mainly from Pennsylvania to Maine and I hear the same things I related above.

In Dallas it was different..statistically you had a 7% chance of getting into a gun fight during your career. It was rare that an officer didn't know someone that had been in a gun fight...much different attitude.

I've been in NH for almost 30 years...there were more LE shooting in Dallas in ONE year than in NH the 30 years I've been here. Rochester PD started in the 1800s...there had never been a LE shooting till 1992. Many towns and cities have never had one and many not more than a couple...whole different demographics....and therefore "sheeple" attitude.

Bob

Cars, sure...guns..hardly. Not really the same thing.

You do realize you just made a broad and sweeping generalization about broad and sweeping generalizations, don't you?

For reference, I know know for a fact that this pistol isn't suffering from long term storage in anything but a holster (in a relatively dry climate). It came from a duty belt into my hands.

Ask one of your many, many retired LE / bodyguard / coffee shop buddies about the rust line on these magazines.... As they sit in this picture, what would that rust line coincide with?

What's the problem?




Travis

Unless the inside of the barrel is rusted, the magazines look like a bigger problem than the gun. Did you shoot it?

I don't know about that 95% figure thrown out there above. Surely it must be regionally influenced. In my experience around here about half are not "gun guys." I've never met a female officer that was firearms oriented. Probably 20% of the guys I know and work with are knowledgeable gun guys. Another 25% or so are ok, have more than a basic rudimentary interest in firearms. For about half though they just really don't know any more about their gun and ammunition than they know about how the engine in their patrol car works. And they don't care about knowing anymore than they have to.

No. Those magazines actually don't belong to that gun. Since I already had pics of a rusted gun I only took mag pics with the second "find".

I did try to insert the magazine. I got it about halfway in and stopped because I thought it would take a tool to ever get it back out.





(That's what she said)

JFC.... This thread's beyond idiotic.

I've got time to kill, so I'll bite.

How so?

Careful, Blue... Outsmarting VarmintGay (which is quite easy) will trigger his homoerotic tendencies and he'll start fantasizing about and commenting on your anus.

As to the rust lines; that seems pretty easy to figure out.

Plural has you all f*cked up?

I thought I'd lob a slow pitch his way. We'll see if he swings or not.

Thanks for the info Bluedreaux. I seldom buy anything other than FTF, and this reinforces that.

I am thinking that the right thing to do is identify the supervisor of the person who pulled this pistol and those magazines out of his gunbelt. Demote said supervisor. Suspend Said person.

Oh, and Varmintguy should read and never post.

I have to say (and I am likely in the minority) that I would still happily pay $330-$350 for that pistol.




Travis

OP says, "Caveat emptor when buying LEO trade-ins sight unseen", while suggesting that one shouldn't assume all LEOs take care of their service weapons. OP provides pics of rusty glock and mags. Respondents take thread to be wholesale indictment of LEOs.

It's a snowy Saturday in February. I guess I hoping for better entertainment.

I would too, unless it is a 40. I hate a stinking 40 S&W.

N > 2

It's a start.

Ahem. That was a junky Smith & Wesson.

See, getting better already.

Then you would be in hog heaven down here. You can't walk into a pawn shop or a gun shop and not find a bunch of used Glocks.

Somehow I think Travis has connections to get NIB Glocks and M&P's for sub $400.

It's part of his UA endorsement deal.

Correct.




Dave

Had no idea we had that kind of celebrity amongst us.

Lucky, we are.

You have no idea.




Dave

It was likely Clark's Glock customization vid complete with "proof" target that pushed him into the land of celebrity freebees.

With an interweb brimming with posers offering tactical advice, the BS stops, and the hammer drops when Clark steps in front of the camera..........

This meteoric rise should have him at SHOT signing posters next year.

Jason Statham will play the the role of Clark in Clark of the Hi-Line, premiering Summer 2018. Bruce Willis was just too old to keep up with the Clark character.

How 'bout Ryan Phillippe? He's already done Bob Lee Swagger.

I do realize it's reaching, him trying to do The Flave.

I think Wahlberg did a good job, but I can't imagine Ryan Phillippe playing a Swagger..............and for sure not Clark.

For the fast action sequences, and UBER tactical scenes, I think Statham was the right choice.

Obviously Dave will be there as a technical advisor to make sure things are done correctly. The studio wanted to hire Seagal, but Dave said NO. Plus Seagal is rumored to play a Blackfoot chief/undercover CIA agent in the film.

Philippe has way too much hair.

Is this the one that shows the family lineage with Clint Eastwood playing himself as Clark's grandfather, and Chuck Norris playing himself as Clark's father? No grandmother or mother is in the line; that much testosterone just impregnates a rock and the child is born ready to eat steaks raw and wash it down with straight whiskey.

Exactly.............though only in voice-overs for Clark's inner thoughts as he stares off into the distance, deciding who's azz to kick next.

I bought one a couple of years back.

I would be disappointed in that rusty gun. Then get the oil and 0000 steel wool, elbow grease. It'll be OK, bet it will work just fine.

i have bought on the other hand several handguns, rifles, and shotguns that were L.E.
Most came out of california
The handguns were new in the box, sat in inventory some place till they upgraded the model then the agency dumped them.
the rifle had the factory grease still in it.
the only one that did show a little exterior rust was a remington 870 that spent it's life in a patrol car.
I know the agency it came from. Some oil and 0000 steel wool, no more issue.
And i have ran into a few that had to take the periodic qualification run more than once. perfect one foot groups at ten or 15yards.

A Remington 870 police magnum is about the only firearm I'd buy used from my department and I would look that over real close. Everything else is pretty well wore out and not worth the hassle of getting it back to good condition. Certainly nothing I'd stake my life on. I would rather buy a new pistol and not one that has 10K plus rounds through it. Perhaps other departments don't shoot as much. Glocks are cheap new.

Hey, where is VarmintGay?

Which department do you work for?




Dave

When my brother became a police officer he gave me his service pistol so I can get it ready for storage. I got some gun grease and got it ready for storage. He used his own personal gun. When he retired I cleaned up his gun amd he turn that one in. It had never been fired.

Huh?





Clark

Um, what?

Umm I'm no Leo but I imagine that carrying a gun that wasn't approved by the chief/armorer would be bad juju if caught or in the case of using it for defense on duty. Also not sure what department doesn't know the serial number of guns they issue and would accept a different serial number back.

When and where was this??????????? Better yet why. If they're buying you a gun why would you buy your own. That is if this truly happened.

They issued him a 38 special but he preferred the 357 magnum.

Interesting thread. I've purchased 4-5 copshop Glocks from Summitgunbroker, a couple of Sig 229R's from CDNN, a P220 or two from KYGuns and couple of MP40Cs from Buds. One of the MP40C's had a thin 1” strip of light rust behind the front sight and it was removed with oil and 0000 steel wool, leaving the finish intact. It was obvious from the location and shape that the cased gun was stored in a wet/damp environment and moisture collected between the foam liner & slide. Rust was present on the liner as well and foam don't rust.

I worked for or closely with about a dozen agencies over 30+ years including contract work for feds. I served as Chief or Adjunct FTO for many of them. I saw a few poorly maintained service handguns but in every case it was the personal sidearm of some fossil dick who should never have had a badge in the first place. And if I issued a sidearm that was allowed to rust like the pistol depicted in the opening post, the officer I issued it to would have been exploring other career options PDQ. I made that known from the outset and never had a problem.

Unless the Chief authorized a personal use firearm, that sounds like a great way to get fired.

He got the approval that he needed. Here is the announcement of his retirement back in 2009.

[/URL]

I suppose I'd do the same back in the 38 special days.

That's pretty cool.




Travis

Interesting thread.

I just paid Bud's $300 for one of the Detroit PD M&P40's. It should arrive by Friday. Hopefully it's in decent shape.

Mine was about perfect (but it cost $319).

just picked up the Detroit PD M&P40. bargain for $300

Good price. Our Sig 226 DAK 40's were a bit more and the S&W 640 357's were priced stupid IMO.

I agree with most of this thinking. IN general, police trade ins are a good deal. Carried a lot and shot a little. Most have quite a bid of holster wear. I have been happy with all of mine. But, you must buy from a reputable dealer who describes his products accurately and honestly. Most dealers are like this. If I saw a picture of that rust bucket, I would just move on. Unless it was cheap enough then I might consider buying it and cleaning it up.

Bud's does a good job describing their police trade-ins, but I still wanna handle them before buying one.

I did that with the one I bought, but I happen to live in Kentucky and like to do a day trip now and then.

They had some Israeli? guns in, FEG Hi-Powers and CZ-75s, that looked like they'd been left in the bottom of the Dead Sea for a couple of years, lots of rust and pitting. At the price they wanted for those, I'd rather add $100 and buy the police guns, even the one pictured here looked better.

I have bought a couple 870 trade-ins before, used them for 3 Gun Matches, and had no issues. I'd monkey with them for awhile, then swap them off.

I LIKE my M&P 9mm, though, it was righteously priced and is a danged good pistol. Shoots a little high, but I can adapt.

I had the atvantage of seeing the guns which were cherrypicked. But the ones i selected were israeli cz75's and they were muy bueno.
they were from a different dealer.