Well for the life of me I cannot get much beyond minute of 81/2 x 11 paper out of any unique load with the Missouri 240 LSWC bullets, and I have not had much luck with the 240 grain XTP's all off the bags at 25 yards.

However I can shoot the 240 grain Lead soft points factory loaded WW ammunition into about 4 inches at 25 yards which for me is "ok". I plan on hunting out of a tree stand and the stands have a gun rest so I should be able to hit something out to 20-25 yards. So now its either buy another box of factory loads or buy a pound of powder that might work with the 240 grain XTP bullet.

I have tried H110 but it seems a bit more vigorous than I want to shoot in a smith and wesson, the unique is not shooting well at all for me at different charge weights, someone have a place\powder\load that they have been successful with to start the 240 grain XTP's that shoots decent?

If XTP's won't shoot decently I'll bet you have a gun problem. I have always had good luck getting XTPs to shoot decent with many different powders too. Have you checked you cylinder chamber mouth diameters? And slugged your barrel?

Mark in GA

XTP's have a good reputation for accuracy, so I'd check cylinder throat diameters as Mark pointed out.

Slugging the bore can tell you a lot, just make sure to lube the bore and the slug really well before you start trying to drive it through. I use Breakfree--regular bullet lube is too hard. It's tough to measure the slug from a S&W barrel because of the five-groove rifling, but there's a lot more to learn than just the diameter. First off, you're looking for tight spots in the bore, which you'll feel as you drive a soft lead slug from muzzle to forcing cone. If there is a constriction, you may want to have it removed. From there, see if the slug that made it through the bore will slip through the cylinder throats. If it hangs up, then you need to have the throats opened.

For what it's worth, I never met a Smith 44 that didn't shoot pretty well with a cast SWC over 10 grains of Unique, so you might try some different cast bullets. See if you can get them in different diameters than what you're using now (.430, .431, etc). Penn Bullets used to make extremely accurate bullets, but they've had problems delivering on time. Beartooth Bullets and Cast Performance are good, too.


Okie John

I cannot for the life of me understand why the WW factory load shoots better.

A few other thoughts based a lot of experimenting with 44 sixguns. The Missouri 240 SWC is the standard old Magma Engineering bevel-base SWC design. Occasionally I have had trouble with designs having a significant bevel on the base and getting accuracy. Missouri offers that design in a couple different sizing diameters and in two different hardness levels. This can greatly (depending our your load and sixgun) effect your performance.

How much Unique are you loading under it? If the bullet is too hard and the base not sealing the bore (via obturation) for the level of pressure your load is generating, you may get leading or even skidding and bad accruacy. This combined with oversized cylinder chamber mouths is pretty much guaranteed to give bad accuracy. It can usually be overcome, but you have to diagnose the actual conditions of your specific sixgun.

In more rare cases you may run into mismatch cylinder chamber mouths vs the bore diameter. Ruger tends to experience this more than S&W, but I have seen it in both. In this case you may have tight cylinder chamber mouths (say .427-.429) and a larger bore (say .430-.431). What this does is when fired, the cylinder mouths size the bullet down then it hits the bore undersized and gives crappy accuracy. In full power cast bullet loads, I have seen the pressure be able to obturate the bullet back up to get a seal in the bore, but still accuracy suffers. If this is what your sixgun has it needs a little minor gunsmithing to polish/hone the cylinder chamber mouths to open them slightly to better match the bore. If your sixgun has cylinder chamber mouths that are oversized (say .431-.433) vs the bore diameter (.428-.429) the solution is use larger diameter cast bullets. Ideally your bullets should be a snug fit in the cylinder chamber mouths and you want that diameter to be larger than bore diameter for best accuracy.

We need to know the following to give you better advice:

1) Missouri bullet hardness (either 12 or 18 Brinell is what they offer)?
2) Bullet sizing diameter in thousandths of an inch (anywhere from .427 to .433 is found in 44 bullets)?
3) How much Unique are you using in the load?

Then if you can get this,

4) Cylinder chamber mouth diameters if you can measure them?

Later,
Mark in GA

Yep.

You dont need obturation or worry if your bullets are too hard, or fret about bevels if they are sealed in the THROATS, so long as they chamber without issues.

I have a hard time thinking the WW factory loads arent without 296 (H110).

Jimmy,

I'd order some Keith style from RimRock with a Bnh of 12-15. Try that 9.5gr's of Unique and see if you're not more happier.

Don't forget your crimp.




Dave

The old classic load of 22 grains of 2400 (older version). Now in a 4 inch it might throw flames.

I had a Ruger SBH years ago that was erratic. One day I removed the cylinder and dropped a 240 XTP down each chamber. Some bullets slipped right through, one or two protruded and I think one stayed where it was supposed to.

So yeah, the dimensions where all over the place.

Before you overthink this or get too complicated...if I were not getting good accuracy in a S&W N frame of any caliber with appropriate weight XTP's, the last thing I would be looking at would be the revolver or the bullets. IME any good load of XTP is going to shoot well in a Smith N frame. I know this is limited to my own approximately 10 or 12 or so N frames and I know there are always anomalies possible in any brand, but..... I get excellent results with H-110 in my Smith .44 and .41 mag revolvers. You're not going to hurt your 629 with any reasonable (book) load of H-110 under a 240 grain XTP. Use a magnum primer, make sure you have good neck tension and a proper crimp (all cases trimmed to the same length and not inside chamfered more than what is necessary to remove the burr.) If it's still not shooting after that, I would take a good hard look at my bench shooting technique with that revolver. Just my $.02.

Clean the chambers and then drop a jacketed bullet into each chamber holding the muzzle straight down. If the throats are too big the bullet will drop right on through. If they're right, the bullet will slow down before going through and sometimes get caught but not tight.

So the bullets is .430 diam, and they measured .430 with my caliper, the chambers are all .426 inside the mouth, the groove to groove inside the barrel is .422.

I will try the XTP's over the mildest load of H110 listed, I had used large pistol primers but not large magnum pistol primers. The WW softpoints shooting OK and the fact that they use H110 makes me interested in trying them again with a magnum primer and a crimp.

The bullets are brinell 18 and coated.

How are you taking these inside measurements?

Years ago I had a 4" 629. Nice guns. I've owned 35 or so .44 magnums over the years, shot a lot of ammo, and settled on a few loads that seem to work if the gun isn't somehow FUBAR.

I don't really load the .44 light. 9 or so grains of Unique under a 240 would be a thing to try if you're so inclined. I also like HS-6 and Winchester 231 for .44 special-ish loads in magnum cases.

My normal "light" .44 load is really about 3/4th to 80% "snot" ... 240-ish grain SWCs over 17.5 grains of 2400 with std primers. My standard every-day, anywhere, anything, .44 load is the same 240-ish grain (actually, 250 grains, lubed, thrown from an RCBS mold), over 24.0 grains of Win 296.

If i'm fighting with a gun that's being a pain, I switch to trimmed WW brass, Federal 155 primers, and 24.7 grains of Win 296 under 240 grain Sierra JHCs. This is the single most accurate handload I've found for the most different .44s.

One other thing to try is Remington's 180 grain factory load or, if you have their component bullets, load them with 29 grains of H110.

If none of that works, your gun is all [bleep] up and needs a trip to the gunsmith. For cylinder throats, Hamilton Bowen does good work at a good price with relatively quick turn-around. I havent had him do a .44 yet but he fixed the under-sized throats on my Ruger .38-40/10mm convertible and I'm very happy with the result.

Tom

calipers

That's not going to give you accurate numbers. It will under report the inside diameters.

Some of the advice your are getting here is about full power loads. If that;s what you are after, that's fine. From your original post I understood you were trying for something accurate and less than full power for less recoil and blast? Did I misunderstand your original post?

Otherwise, I always have to roll my eyes when commercial caster's claim they are doing a 44 SWC and its always advertised or call out as a Keith. The Magma Engineering design that 99% of commercial casters use is the antithesis of everything Elmer Keith ever said or wrote about what a Keith bullets should be!!!

In Elmer's mind any bevel base was an abomination. And just any SWC is not a Keith. A Keith has some very specific design criteria. Frankly Lyman's 429421 was Keith's original design, but even they changed it over the years and went away from exactly what Keith prescribed. He was not happy with Lyman's changes and went on to H&G for a replacement.

Under report meaning its bigger than I measure?

Do the .430 diameter cast bullets you have push through the cylinder chamber mouths easily? Drop through? Or go through with only a little finger pressure behind them?

Mark in GA

Right. As narrow as the caliper jaw edges are they still don't quite fit the sides of a hole.

Lighter charges of H110 and 296 don't always burn evenly, and non-magnum primers make that worse. If anything, run right up next to the max and definitely use magnum primers. If that kicks too hard, then use a different powder.


Okie John

I had read that about 110, I will try 23 grains and a magnum primer under an xtp.

Use a good crimp on the case mouth. My favorite load is the 240 XTP with 22 gr VV-N110 which is a full load in my 10.5" SBH.

Also, the grip should fit you very well, with your wrist and arm directly behind and in line with the bore, not offset.

Thanks but pretty sure it's the ammo

If any of my 44's ever shot that poorly with those 240r XTP's I would lean toward the gun or me being the fault.

Never had any problems with that bullet out of several different wheel guns.

I ran 180, 200 and 240 gr XTP in my 629 4"
Max loads of 296.
Accuracy was fine.
Blast was nasty, and there was some flame cut of topstrap (gun didn't have any when I got it).
No big deal.

Sold it to get a 6", then went 8 3/8" and back to 6".

Think the 4" the most fun though. Short sight radius.........was 50 yards and in rig for me.

Miss that gun