IMG_2156 by Jim Hackiewicz, on Flickr

Here is a few photo examples of the 445 super mag case used for my 44 mag shot shells. With 9 to 11 grains of unique and a circular piece of fabric, like terry cloth felt, or almost anything that can be tapped down snugly on the top of the powder charge to hold it in place against the primer. Then pour in the 7.5 or 9 shot or what ever you choose I have used 4 shot as well. 9 works really great for me.

One case firing will blow it out to match the cylinder and usually get you a better capacity the second load. The far right is an unloaded 44 mag case going to the left, that one is filled with powder, "wad" and shot then covered over with whatever silicone calk I had laying around. Clear works nice to verify what shot is loaded months later!

I usually ream a case mouth inside and out to a sharp edge. Than fold up fabric and tap the shell through like a cutter. With a straight piece of metal like a nail or paper clip you can push it all out from the primer hole. I found drilling out primer pocket of the sacrificial wad cutting tool it was easier to just use a small screw driver.

I suppose you would need to experiment with shot size and powder charge for the best patterns at your chosen range with your gun. Mine with 9 shot really performs fantastic at 20 feet from my 5-5/8" freedom arms revolver. As you can see the 445 supermag cases provide tremendous capacity. If I recall Properly I have as much lead shot in them as a 410 shell holds inside the wad of a new shell. Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth.

I have also poured melted wax into the case before sealing them up to hold the shot together longer. Not enough experience with that yet to share. But at 6-8 feet it's still a bullet hole in the paper. Less wax would seem better, but maybe no wax and having it work as it did originally is the best yet.

There is zero recoil from this load and all 5 cylinders can be fired easily in seconds without losing the sight picture. It takes time to set up the loading bench to make these but it's worth every minute to have them available in your cylinder. My revolver has externally numbered cylinders actually both my freedom Arms and my Mountain gun both have numbered cylinders. In this way I know which cylinder has which ammo.

Have done this with fire-formed .30-40 Kraig cases with the rims turned down to .050". Approximately 230 gn of #9 shot and 7 to 8 gn of Bullseye worked well. Like the silicone caulk idea. I have used epoxy or crimped in a .41 cal gas check. Couldn't get the cases completely fire-formed without using a full load. They work well but lead the barrel fiercely.

Might try cork instead of the cloth. 1/16" thick . I used 1/8" for a 45-50 load.

Years ago there were some write ups on the various methods. As IRC, the smaller the shot the better and don't hot rod the laods.

I’ve done similar with my 460 S&W, using .444 Remington Mag. brass, 1/2 oz. of shot, duplicating a 2 1/2” 410. memtb

Yeah, normal range powder charge is better. Loading hot just distorted the patterns badly for me.

None will walk away if you use a 255gr Keith.....

Will a shortened 444 case fit in the chamber of a 44 mag?

Here is the DocRocket 'campfire handgun shotshell thread for a reference.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6574835/1

it's easy enough to cut a wad using a casing with the mouth sharpened out of just about anything. I don't use max loads either. I did go online and buy a bag of no 12 shot cause i wanted a denser pattern. I use and electric glue gun over the end to hold the shot in place.
In 45colt i used a .410shotcup with the wings cut back.
done the same thing with several other calibers.

I don't think so; they fit 45 Colt / 454 Casull / 460 S&W chambers correctly. The 444 Marlin has a slight taper in original form, it's based on a rimmed 30-06 case with no bottleneck.

I use 444 Marlin brass in my 460 in a similar manner to the OP, but with old RCBS 45 Auto shotshell dies to crimp the over-shot wad in place. I make those wads much like the OP as well, but from card stock from primer boxes. I've found patterns are better when using a shortened 410 shot cup instead of an over-powder wad, at least in my guns.

I've posted these pics before but they seem appropriate here. The cases are "over-annealed" to fight case neck cracking because of the large degree of forming by the shotshell dies. The target was shot at 10 yards from a 6" 460 revolver, with an outline of my hand for reference.

Sadly, no, the .444 is .4698 at base, .44 is .4569.

As stated above you can use .303 British or .30-40 but you have to reduce the rim.

.445 Super Mag is easiest, I ran them into a 7x57 die to reduce the upper part of the case enough to chamber. I think it would work better if I had a .41 Magnum sizer, but after firing they fire form to look exactly like JJHack's in the OP. I loaded mine with a .410 shot cup trimmed to length and silicone caulk to seal.

Oh, yeah, .445 works in both .44 Mag and .44 Special if you size down the "neck" far enough.

These type shot shells work as good as anything including the 410 revolvers without the oversized cylinder chambers for the 45.

That's a great pattern for 10 yards....

I made up some .41 Magnum shotshells a few years ago and they worked well. One had an inverted gascheck on top the other a .410 round ball.

I've got some .414 Supermag brass and now that I have a 10mm die need to see if the necks can be reduced to fit in the chambers...

Bob

Couldn't you just run them through a 44 die?

just happened to dawn on me, is length the problem with running them in a 44 die?

Yes, the .445 is much longer than the .44 mag case, it extends into the throat of the cylinder so it has to be sized down to fit. .44 mag sizer is around .457, the throat part has to be around .430.

JJ,

Get your hands on some #11 shot and you'll never go back to the 7.5 or 8 I promise. Shot penetration is never the issue, number of pellets on target is paramount. With 7.5 shot most snakes require two shots, with #11, even out of a .38 special, it's never more than one shot.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Chilled-Lead-Shot-11-15mm-10_bag/productinfo/02611/

I shot a mouse that kept raiding candy bars inside my wall tent with my . 357 mag shot shells using 9 shot. Did the job,but pieces of mouse wer all over the tent walls. Kinda noisy too

ballisticproducts is where i got my shot, enought to last me into the next lifetime. I never used special brass, just the brass designated for what ever caliber i was making them from. Wads are easy to make, or in like 45colt the .410shotcup. you can make a cutter for the wad and end c ap out of a casings with the mouth sharpened. And a glue gun to seal them in the casing on the end.
In some cases if they will fit an inverted gas check.

Bingo

Exactly

Once I had the idea to stuff some steel screen down into some .44 CCI shot capsules, fill them with shot (#6?) then stitch the top together with some very thin wire. The idea was to make the shot hold together until it broke through the screen so it would pattern better. They were very time consuming to construct.

I didn't load the .44 shot cartridges very heavy. As I recall, I used 3 grains of Bulleye.

I propped a 3/4" piece of plywood against the garage wall, then backed off the distance of the garage and "patterned" my shot capsule on the piece of plywood.

It didn't pattern. But I found that a bean bag of #6 shot would blow a half dollar sized hole through both a 3/4" piece of plywood and one side of the wall behind it.

They sucked as shot cartridges, but it appeared that they would be a hell of a defense load,...even when only propelled by 3 grains of Bullseye.

I surely like that 30 foot pattern. Makes me want to try making some.

I load the Speer capsules in 44 and 38 and buy 22 Long Rifle and 22 Mag. I carry them all at one time or another and kill 4 to10 Prairie Rattlers around the place every year.

My only use for these is for P R and 6-8 feet is more than enough. One day, I killed 24 PR with the old Remington crimped 22 LR loads in my Model 34. They held 25 grains of #11 shot. A second shot was seldom necessary.

No aiming needed with the shot, that 255 bullet has a lot of air around it. A 20" pattern of lead makes shooting in the dark in a panic and without any measurable recoil quite a nice load in the house where people in other rooms are often likely. A stressed out horrified and panic'd woman awakened out of a sound sleep without much experience holding the gun shaking like crazy might not actually have the calm precision of the experts in self defense so common on internet websites!

Also, discharging a gun inside a house, actually inside a room in a house, will deafen you for quite some time, days. It's also quite the effect on an intruder. There are plenty of other people down the road without guns in the house. You will experience a muzzle blast of pressure on your face and body that does not occur outside or even at indoor ranges for the most part. That concussion even if you miss the target is quite impressive.

Remember I lived in South Africa, home intruders are not the exception. My business partners 70 year old parents were executed while sleeping in the master bedroom both shot in the head. The mother lived about another week before dying in hospital. Just so they could be robbed without interruption. I could post up a number of photo's of what a head looks like when shot with a handgun bullet, shotgun blast or even one with a 308. I have them on my Iphone right now. It's simply to disgusting to actually put on this site.

I'm not speaking from a "what if" scenario that is remotely possible. I'm speaking from seeing this in person several times, many times, or better stated too many times! Then calling the SAPs only to tell me they have no fuel allotment remaining so I'm on my own. Yet another time, I had the intruders zip tied hands behind the back for 6 hours until the SAP's arrived. Only then to be scolded for wasting their time to drive all the way here when I have a back hoe parked in plain sight!

My opinions are not guess work and theory....... I lived in these conditions for a good portion of my adult life. Google South African Farm murders and then choose images or read about it. Hundreds of remote locations a year are attacked probably on a daily basis. Understanding home defense is not a hobby or interesting chit chat, is actually real life and death conditions.

I listed 20 New 455 super brass in the class. here! never got around to useing them for snake loads!

Wait...you're using this for self defense against humans?

I see you're convinced that you're right about this, but I would recommend you look at some ballistics gelatin tests with 7.5 shot from a 12ga...It's very unimpressive. From a handgun cartridge, penetration will stay much the same, but with much less shot.

In all my years as a Paramedic, I have never once seen anyone killed by birdshot from a shotgun (or handgun for that matter). I've seen some nasty wounds, and some guys in a good deal of pain, but every last one of them could have got up and resumed the fight had they wanted to.

Not trying to start an argument, but my observations have been different.

I have investigated three homicides and one self-defense fatal shooting where a 12ga with birdshot was used. One victim was shot in the belly from about 10' and was DRT. Another was shot in the neck from ~ 15' and bled out within ten feet of where he was shot. The third homicide was a 16 year old boy who caught a load of #6 shot in the chest from roughly 7 yards. He died in my arms before medics could get there.
The intruder in the self defense shooting caught a load of #8's in the chest at about 4' and the shot column stopped at the chest wall on the other side of his body. He didn't get very far, either. Pretty much straight down.

It can happen. I've seen several handgun body shot deaths, too, including one from a .39 Special wadcutter out of Charter Arms snub nose from over 75 yards. One shot,center-punched him. DRT.
On the other hand I've seen some folks "shot to doll rags" with handguns and lived to talk about it.

Also, keep in mind that where JJ has had to deal with these situations, hygiene is not a priority, and medics are even father away than the cops. You don't want to get shot with anything. Much like the Old West where people feared even a .22 Short.

Ed

1) Several years ago my hunting partner tripped and fell in a pasture, his 20guage auto went off . For some reason the trigger was pulled or bumped, it was not in his hands, he dropped it as he was falling and fired straight up in the forehead of his horse. The muzzle to forehead distance was probably 10-12 feet but it's a bit of a guess nobody measured it. There was a hole about 2" in diameter in the horses forehead and no exits of any sort. 6 shot was in the shell. He was spattered in blood and brains from that distance and the horse was dead before it hit the ground. He was shook up and scared and confused. Later that same week he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Had been fighting through some of it without telling anyone. This event was the last straw. He had been seeing a doctor about it prior but this event was significant in his life.

2) I've never used this load on a person, it was an observation in the original post I used to reply to another person. I would not use the shells for this duty. Just an observation about the damage and ease of use. ie no recoil big area of coverage. Would not really care if the first debilitating shot killed anyone, but it darn sure levels the playing field a bit with 5 more behind it.

Oh one other example, on youtube there is a arguement between two guys over something and one has a shotgun. The big fella puts his arms out and is yelling something like go ahead shoot me!

The guy with the gun shoots him in the bicep, and you can see the hole blow through his arm pretty darn clearly. It was 3-4" hole clean through. Nothing lives through that in the chest! They were probably 15 feet apart or a bit less. I think it was in south America someplace. My memory on the details a bit fuzzy, but for anyone interested about what birdshot does to flesh, its brutally nasty and easily very lethal !

I guess the Marines kicking doors in Fallujah should trade up to handguns with birdshot.

I generally stay out of tactical discussions because of my lack of experience, but I'll jump in this time on the basis of witnessing 5,000+ room clearings. Active LEO's carry what they're issued, but those that can choose overwhelmingly go with a shotgun loaded with slugs. In most cases these guys are ex military and contractors, or LEO's on leave of absence, vacation, or some sort of time off.

They go with slugs to stop the fight and precisely FOR the reason they can shoot though interior barriers - walls, a mattress, a couch, or whatever a bad guy will use for cover. There are shared horror stories of having birdshot from a riot gun bounce off room décor while the bad guy opens up with a double stack 9mm.

These same guys prefer a M4-type weapon for the open streets, and many will carry both a slung shotgun with slugs AND an M4 and switch from one to the other moving from street to buildings.

For anyone new to the handgun forum, things can be done routinely countless times inside 10 yards or ten feet that just dont cotton when the distance doubles or heaven forbid, quadruples. Sliced bread may be the "greatest", yet don' t pack for [bleep].

There are other things that work essentially universally from 550 fps to 2,000 or translated 0 to pushing 1,000 yards and Id be damned if birdshot is one of them...

That about as stupid a thing as I've read in awhile.

these still available ?

They are still available --- but Speer does not always have them in stock. Apparently produces them every now and then.

Midway has them in stock now, probably others do also.

Those plastic shells often see tough duty bouncing around or in pockets with other things. That plastic will crack and break. That was the number one reason I started using the 445 Supermag brass and calking the top. They have never broken apart even bouncing in the truck dash box for a year at times

I've got some Speer shot capsules that I've carried in open belt loops for a long time (44s) and they have been banged against all matter of machinery and such. Never had any trouble.

I've never even broken one while applying the crimp, though I've heard of others breaking them during crimping.

Maybe mine were not made by Speer? Don’t know the mfg it was more than 10 years ago. At that point I needed full length brass failure of those shot shells was frequent with shot getting into everything.

Good luck!