I've always liked the 45 Colt cartridge because it's so flexible - load it down or load it heavy. Lately I've been hankering for a SA version (for lighter-duty rounds - not the heavy stuff) and have been considering (primarily but not exclusively) either a Colt SAA or a Freedom Arms 97. I like barrels in the 4 - 5" range just because. I've never owned either a SAA or a model 97 (have owned several 83's). Between these two what are the considerations and factors in favor of each? Are there other SA 45's I should consider?

Thanks in advance for any input.

I want a Colt New Frontier BAD!!! The New Frontier is virtually the same as the SAA, but has adjustable sights. The Freedom Arms is an amazing work of art as well, but if I was going that route, I'd opt for a 454 Casull or something much more powerful to match the brawn of the FA revolvers. The 45 Colt, just seems, well, at home in a Colt.

My first favorite handgun was a Colt SAA but my was .38-40, not .45 colt. The only negative for me was I'm a handloader and tinkerer, I like to shoot lots of different loads, try this and that, and for that, adjustable sights are far superior because bullets of different shape and different weight, never mind changes in velocity, shoot to different points of aim. Also, at least on my Colt, the top of the front sight was rounded rather than squared off making repeatable holds a bit more difficult. The FA 97 is available with fixed or adjustable sights. For me, adjustable sights win hands down every time. It's a very strong gun and among the finest crafted handguns available. No "lose" with a FA.

However ...

My first choice in a lighter duty SA .45 would be a Ruger flattop stainless, a Lipsey's distributor exclusive.

Tom

I've owned three Model 97's - they are a fantastic gun. I still own a model 83 in 44 Mag. My only caution is to shoot one before you commit to buying, if possible. The grip size on the 97 doesn't have enough room, for me anyway, and they consistently beat the knuckle on my middle finger. To the point that I sold them all. I second the choice of the new vaquero frame size from Ruger. I had one of those in 44 special and the grip fits my knuckles just fine.

i do not have exceptionally large hands.

I've never held a 97 but a grip that's too small would not appeal. Honestly that's one of the things that (based on second and third-hand info) has caused me to shy away from Colts in the past. I don't have overly large hands either but want a grip that fits.

Thanks for the input so far.

If you are not in a hurry, consider a Ruger.
Then get a good smith to do what Ruger wont.

Keith bullets.

Be aware that if you use some of these designs, along with some smaller custom production cast bullets, they may require deeper seating past crimp cannelures in the SAA and clones. I believe the 97 FA also has a shorter cylinder as well.

How does the flattop grip compare with the Bisley grip offered by Ruger? I see a Bisley 45 with case colored frame from Lipsey's (which I really like) with the only downside being that it's barrel is 5.5" instead of around 4.5". I could live with the longer barrel depending on the grip. I had a Bisley 480 from Ruger and did not like the combination of the round and the grip. Perhaps in a lesser/lighter round the Bisley would be good? My middle finger got pulverized shooting the 480 Bisley to the point it was downright unpleasant.

Some of the comments seemed to respond regarding 44 magnums, or 44 Specials, when the question was about 45 Colts. Since you don't seem interested in the heavier loads, these are the models I'd consider.
The New Vaquero is a great gun and handles 45 Colts very well.

The Ruger Flat Top and it's available in 45 Colt and also in the convertible if you think you might like to shoot 45 ACP's.

Another gun that is very popular is the Flat Top in the Bisley version and it's also available both ways. I personally think the variety of 45 Colt ammo on the market is excellent.

I like the Original Vaquero in 45 Colt and have a few. I also like to add a SBH hammer to them. Makes it handy.

The standard Ruger Blackhawk, is a very nice gun as well and is also available as a convertible.

Sure there are other models like the Model 97 which to me has a small grip and it also has a short cylinder, if you want to shoot a heavier bullet. I've had a couple of those but was never happy with it for that reason.

Several companies make a SAA variance from Uberti to Beretta and more, but it's hard to find a stronger gun for the price that will last.

This is an apples and oranges type question. The Freedom Arms is a more quality gun than the Colt with features that will make it much more shootable. The only thing I can think of that the Colt would have over the FA is nostalgia. There is nothing wrong with that because people buying a Colt SAA are doing so to experience the feel of the frontier and the FA will never come close in that department.

IMO where the Bisley grip frame shines is in the handling of heavy recoil. This should not be the case with the loads you describe. IIRC the Lipsey's edition is based on the New Vaquero, a gun which is not capable of handling heavy 45 Colt loads, so the Bisley grip is for those who just prefer it or like the looks. The Bisley Blackhawk is a whole different ballgame, capable of handling the heaviest 45 loads.

So get the Colt if you want a Cowboy gun or the Freedom Arms if you want the ultimate in shootability.

I was set to order an Uberti Cattleman when I found a pristine New Vaquero for the same price.

Don't know the strengths of the FA nor SAA and clones, but fwiw the .45 Colt Ruger Flattop on the medium frame is perfectly capable of loads to 23,000 psi, that is compared to the full size framed .45 Blackhawk which can take loads up to 30,000 psi.

Brian Pearce did an article in Handloader IIRC around 2012 on that. He figured that since the Ruger Flattop convertible is chambered for any .45 ACP ammo and +P (or maybe even +P+, I forget exactly) is loaded to around 23 kpsi, then that figure would be a good safe max for the .45 Colt. Even at that pressure you can get some impressive results with the old Colt round, especially when the original level was no slouch at all.

I have had Rugers, Uberti's and Colt single actions (all three generations)
They all went bang when the trigger was pulled, and all hit the target I was shooting at.
But, there is only one real SAA and that's Colt, all the others are just copies.
Buy the one that will give you enjoyment of shooting, or buy a Colt, enjoy the shooting, it's history and the fact that it will keep or increase in value.

The Vaquero is no copy. Drop safe and rides six up.

And, for the former, don't overlook the Uberti replicas. The main differences between them and the Colts is the pony engraving and, consequently, the price.

PS, so does the latest version of the Uberti Cattleman (the Cattleman II). They're six safe.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790969393

I've got this Cattleman II that's a factory convertible from Uburti, i.e., it comes with two fitted, same serial numbered, cylinders, one .45 Colt and one .45 ACP.

Ohh my my my, you sir are an evil man. I would never consider buying that out from another member, but it makes me sorely tempted.
The custom grips are worth at least a couple hundred. I wonder who did them.
This would be my choice for a mid level load 45 Colt.
Recoil will definitely be the deciding factor on how hot you run it.
Not as bad as a S&W M-329, but it's tougher than most people.

I had a Bisley Blackhawk in 45 Colt that beat my knuckle mercilessly! And I wear an extra large glove!
I bought a standard Blackhawk (against all the nay-sayers advice) and liked it so much, I sent it to Bowen for upgrades, and tuning.
It may not go to the grave with me, but it'll likely be with me up until then.

I've had a couple FA's and still shoot a model 83 .454 Casull. Freedom Arms is in a class all their own. If you want 100 yard plus accuracy and a great trigger in a very shootable revolver, buy the FA.

I've had 2 45s on the larger Super Blackhawk Bisley frame, but my only experience with the Flattop "357" Bisley sized gun is in 44 Special with 265/270gr. bullets. Of course I've shot numerous 45's with the Ruger plow handle as well.

That said, the Bisley grip frame is a recoil champ, just don't do the death grip thing. Most who "like" the std plow handle aren't content with the OEM grips and are usually replaced by some rubber fist...

Very nice.

Thanks. Safely holds six, due to the newer design on the Cattleman, so there goes that rationale for preferring Ruger to the more authentic Uberti.

Rugers are still likely a bit stronger, but not so much for the New Vaquero.

Hawk how is the accuracy of that Cattleman?

Three screw Superblackhawk, line bored by Jim Stroh from .44 Mag to .45 Colt. Shilen 6" barrel, long exractor, front sight made by Jim. I added the aftermarket rear sight, did the trigger job and fitted a trigger stop. I installed a nail inside the trigger spring, behind the plunger, cut to the right length to eliminate excessive over travel. I fitted the stag grips, installed the Ruger medallions.

Mernickle cross draw holster, belt long enough to fit over Winter clothes I may be wearing while hunting. Good rig for WT's from a ladder stand. I use Penn Bullets 270 gr. Thunderheads over max 4227 load.

Have posted this before. This is my favorite .45 Colt.

DF

For the life of me, I can't see why...





Very nicely thought out and executed. The Dragoon grip doesn't seem to get much love on heavy kickers with the Bisley grips getting all the attention these days but I've always liked them in the SBH, they've never whacked my knuckle with the heaviest loads and the square back guard adds some visual niceness.

Most folk seem to like the Bisley grip for recoil but I’m in the opposite camp as well. The old plow handle grip, to me, does a much better job with heavy loads. At least in so far as making them comfortable.

The SBH grip is comfortable for me. I also like the Bisley but think the FA may be the best one yet.

IMO, Elmer's #5 sorta set up the Ruger Bisley, although a bit different from the #5.

Here is a Bill Grover Longhorn Arms #5, a copy of Elmer's #5.

Then a custom Jim Stroh Ruger Bisley I traded for.

And last, a FA 97 in .357.

One can see the grips compared.

DF

John, if you carefully analyze the 4 different grip styles I posted, you may see that the SBH may have more middle finger/knuckle clearance than the others.

And, it depends on how you grip the gun. Some wrap their hands around the grip, such that the middle knuckle isn't directly behind the trigger guard. I tend to grip such that my knuckle is just about in line with the back of the trigger guard.

Now, I don't have (or want) a .454, 480, etc., just shoot full house .45 Colt loads. I don't get my knuckle busted with the SBH shooting max loads.

In the .357 FA, I'm shooting full house 170 gr. Gold Dots. I needed a taller front sight with the heavy bullets, FA knew exactly which one. The retrofit was easy with an Allen wrench. That load is equal in power to a 10mm and I prefer it to my 10mm Glock. No knuckle busting.

DF

Thanks Dirtfarmer. I like the idea of having a bit more room between my middle finger and the back of the trigger guard. Having my middle finger bashed like it's being hit with a hammer each time I pull the trigger takes all the fun out of shooting.

Based on a bit more online research as well as reading the preceding posts with great interest I'm leaning strongly in favor of the FA 97. What I really want is one with a 4 1/2" +/- octagonal barrel and express sights. If I have to order one what's the general consensus on delivery/turnaround time?

FA is pretty efficient, don't know about turnaround time. Their stuff isn't cheap, but very well done. And, as I noted, their CS is excellent.

They do know their stuff. Give them a call.

The gun you describe is super nice. I like the octagonal barrel and 4 1/2" is a great carry length, very handy.

DF

I called FA a couple years ago to check on delivery time since I'd saved up the loot. They quoted me 14 months. I decided it wasn't worth that much wait to me.

Tom

May find one on line from one of the brokers, like Gunsamerica, etc.

DF

I had one just like it; shot high and left. Sold it.


Them Italians are hit and miss. I have another that is wicked accurate.

When I was in the cowboy action game, I got an action wrench and barrel vice to adjust the POI. Shooting high is a problem, L vs R can be handled.

Shooting low, just cut some off the front sigiht.

Sometimes changing a load can influence POI.

DF

Depends. My old Cattleman purchased by me around 1988 shot left.

My new one is dead on. Not high, low, left, or right. I like it.

How tight the group is will depend on the load. This group is from some cheap, FMJ, .45 ACP range ammo at 15 yards from off hand (I have a .45 Colt cylinder for it, too). You can cover it with the palm of your hand. I'd say that's good enough for government work.

PS In Hickok45's hands, I'm sure it could ring the gong at 80 yards pretty regular.

That Jim Stroh's a beauty. Love those stags on it, too.

Yeah, Jim's a master craftsman.

I enjoyed working with him. I did the stags with medallions on that one, as well. Jim had rosewood grips, which are nice, just like stag better.

The line bored SBH with Shilen barrel will out shoot the Bisley, also a .45 Colt. It's been slicked up, but otherwise just a factory gun.

25 yds off a bag with SWC 255's and 4227.

BTW, FA's are reportedly line bored and will shoot with the best custom Rugers.

DF

Here's my 4 1/4" Oct Bbld FA97 in .45 Colt. I lucked out and got it used -- I've put in excess of 25,000 rnds thru it. Perfect size for me and can be loaded from mild to wild.



Paul

Paul, unless I'm mistaken that's the exact gun John Havard's looking for.

Nice size for carry, great round and those things do shoot.

Hard to beat El Paso leather. I like the pig skin lining.

What's the other holster?

DF

The two EP Saddlery holsters are for other guns -- the one on the left is a Freedom Arms cross drawn make for the 4 1/4" M97.

Paul

Sure enough. I just prefer they do it at the factory.

How about this one?


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...all-blue-in-the-box.cfm?gun_id=101123023

Barrel too long? How about this pair?


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-rodeo-s-in-45-colt.cfm?gun_id=101110655

That's a beautiful gun.

Yes, the USFA guns are likely the best SAAs ever made, surpassing the best put out by Colt, even. I came very close to ordering one a few times, back when they were making them. Just coulnd't quite "pull the trigger" on it, due to the fact that I'd be paying Colt prices for it, but not getting the Colt pony.

Agree that USFA were some of the best.

But, it’s that magic pony that makes the SAA extra valuable.

Not that prime USFA guns don’t bring a premium, them ponies are the rage.

DF

Ditto. And why is this guy wanting $45 to ship? Ridiculous, non-realistic shipping is one of the first things that turns me away from a seller..

Exactly.

Took the plunge. Ordered a FA 97 today with all the features and goodies I wanted from a large dealer. Expected delivery in about 6 weeks because he was able to simply spec this gun into his order queue.

Good deal.

We expect pictures.

What grip material did you specify?

DF

Black micarta, but I’m going to get a pair of sheep horn grips after it comes.

Did you go round butt grip frame?

I've never held either 97 grip so I relied on the input from the dealer. He said the "regular" grip was a bit more hand-filling than the round butt so I chose the regular grip.

You can always send it back to get round butted if you want, but not the other way around. All of mine were the regular grip and worked fine.

Who you gonna get to fit sheep horn grips?

Those are really nice.

DF

I've had Paul Persinger recommended but I might work with Dustin Linebaugh too.

From what I’ve read, they both do great work.

To me the choice would be turn around time.

DF

Come on guys, I can Google pictures of .45 SA's. Let's see some TARGETS!

My favorite (at the moment) 45 Colt, that costs 1/3 the price of an FA-















Very typical accuracy of the late model Uberti's. But, you'll enjoy your FA.

35WN

Nice gun handling, nice gun;

DF

Nice Uberti. Can't say I like the pearl grips, though.

Remember what Patton said about them?

"They're ivory ... Only a pimp from a New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl handled pistol."

I'm not getting any younger and that's why I recently made a change with a lot of my gunsmithing.

ex: getting my G21 back today from yesterday on some parts installs.

Ive come to enjoy shooting more than waiting.

Impressive.


No 255's?

Damn fine shooting there, 35. Looks likes you got yourself a dandy there. FWIW I have excellent accuracy from several 45 Colts with the same MO Bullet slug you are using.

These days I use the Lee 255 RNFP over 8.5 grains of Unversal for 950 fps from my Coltized New Vaquero. A cylinder full, plinked off with one hand from 50 yards. The revolver shoots way better than I do.

That's some pretty good shooting SargeMO

Well, maybe I am a pimp! But definitely not from New Orleans!

To each his own, and while I respect Gen. Patton for his prowess as a military leader, I feel the same way about gaudy engraving, never really understood it.

35WN

Why, thank you.

Now that you mention it, I have moulds that drop bullets all around 255, but none exactly that weight!

35WN

Nice shooting, Sarge, and touche'.....



35WN

I like pimped out SAA's. Engraved...pearls or ivories either one. Nickel or silver plate.

Nice guns fella's. I like the 7.5 inch models personally. Matt Dillon style.

I had several very fine S&W 45 Colts. I sold them as I decided I highly preferred the SAA’s solely.

I own Ruger Blackhawk’s & Super Blackhawk’s in 45 Colt. I own the Ruger Hunter & it will put its rounds into one ragged hole off the bench. The SAA’s are awesome handguns and should not be overlooked.

Some are plow handle & some are Bisley. I prefer the plow handle but they both have their place.

Agreed on engraving.

Speaking of single action revolvers, here's a photo of a typical pistolero

LOL.

Here's my Ruger Old Vaquero. Talk about a beast. Strength equal to the Super Blackhawk.

POA equals POI (regarding windage), which is always nice on a fix sighted gun. Elevation varies with load, but is generally right on.

Love that stubby Vaqiero, TRH. My favorite barrel length to boot.

Thanks. That was from when they came with color case hardened frames. Not sure if it was real or not, but it looks pretty good.

No target pictures, but I can dig the accuracy of some of the ubertis. I sure like this one.

Ooooo....very nice!

She's a beaut!

Yeah, a real Colt with adjustable sights would be at the top of my list.

I went with the next closest thing and don’t feel slighted at all: a USFA worked on by Alan Harton.

These have the crispiest sights than any handgun I own.



I run it in either a homemade “quiet shoulder holster” or Purdy gear Mountain Man type rig when I’m feelin’ sassy





I set it up to shoot 45 Cowboy Special loads and 255 gr SWC over 9 gr of Unique with the same POI at 10y

It’s a solid 1”-per-10y gun and that is plenty good for me for as far as I can see these days.

USFA

I like the Ruger Bisley 45 Colt.. It is capable of everything from Mouse to Moose. The FA Model 97 limits you cartridge OAL to about 1.6 inches. The Colt SAA clones limit your chamber pressure. The older large frame Ruger Vaqueros are your best bets for fixed sight gun to shoot the heavier Buffalo Bore/Grizzily/Garrett 45s. You don't NEED to shoot the romper stompers but with the full size Rugers that is an option.

Garrett makes a Colt SAA(3rd gen) and Colt clone compatible cartridge that goes about 260 grains @ 900FPS that I would not be afraid to hunt any North American ungulate, black bear or other medium sized game with given the appropriate shot angle/distance.

Frank Hamer had a pearl gripped pistol. I don't think Patton would have said that to Captain Hamer.

If you follow Brian Pearce's columns and articles, he has developed lots and lots of loads for the 45 Colt. In his 14,000 psi section, he loads a 285 gr. cast SWC to just under 1,000 fps. In the ~20,000 psi (Ruger New Vaquero and Uberti SA's) he loads the same bullet to 1100 fps.

If I need more power than that, you'll find me carrying something with a shoulder stock, a tubular magazine, chambered in a caliber beginning with the number 4!

35WN

Since Frank Hamer's 45 was mentioned, I'll post a couple of pics I took of his engraved pearl-stocked 45 several years ago at the NRA Museum at the Springfield MO Bass Pro. Pics were taken with an old phone and glare edited out as best I could. While I don't care for pearl grips there's no shame in them, especially if they are carved with steer heads.




Frank's favorite and most used Colt was 'Old Lucky'



More at http://russellcushman.blogspot.com/p/frank-hamer.html

Sarge, great stuff!!!

I’m still with Patton on this issue.

Not my bag either, TRH. Give me ivory, sheephorn or stag.

The custom option is a good one. This one features an oversized six-shot cylinder that can be loaded hot to your heart's content. It's a JRH creation...

This is another I like a lot. Dealer exclusive (Talo) .45 Colt Ruger Bisley with color case hardening by Turnbull.

Fantastic revolvers, Max! The blue & case colored Talo gun is perfect.

That Talo/Turnbull 45 is rare as hens teeth right now.

How does your Turnbull shoot, Whitworth? The throats on mine measure .451, and I was considering having them honed to something like .4525, but the danged thing has been doing well with cast bullets of .452 in the 265 and 300 grain weight range. Bhn? Cast Performance bullets.