I am planning on getting a .44 Magnum in the near future. I will be loading my own ammo. My question is: if using a 240 grain bullet, is there any real advantage in going with an XTP over a Kieth style coated SWC if loading for self defense - both two and four legged threats? A .44 Mag is a lot of cartridge, so is there any real advantage to the XTP in either Magnum or Special loadings?

I’ve never shot any people with either the special or the magnum but I have shot a decent variety of game and farm animals and haven’t had any problems with the Keith bullet doing the job. A buddy killed a charging grizzly a couple years ago with a Keith bullet doing about 850-900fps out of his snubby hammerless titanium 44 special.

I cast bullets and shoot more rocks and plates than anything with my handguns so I’m not really into buying expensive jacketed bullets and I wouldn’t want to have to resight and relearn trajectories when changing loads if I used them for hunting. So I just use one load for everything, 245 Keith over 9.0 grains of Unique in Magnum cases.

I killed a dozen or so deer and a pickup load of varmints with the 44 Mag using loads ranging from 'Redhawk Only' 300 grain XTP loads, basic full-snort 240 grain JHP loads and 240 grain SWC loads at 900-1100 fps. I couldn't tell a nickel's worth of difference between them as long as I planted it where it needed to go. I soon determined the 'where' meant the junction of the spine at the shoulder, or lengthwise through the body as near the center of the body as possible.

The XTP is designed to have good (sufficient even through heavy clothing) penetration AND expansion. Better bullet for self defense use in a .44.

The 240gr Keith, being cast will penetrate through a perp and possibly through your house and into your neighbor's and beyond.

Some years back I tested the 44 Mag 210 grain Silvertip, from a 4" Model 29, against 45/230/Hydra Shok from a 5" 1911-A1. Penetration in water-filled containers was a dead heat, though the 44 stomped the jugs a little harder.

after hunting with a 44 mag revolver for 5 decades , heres the best combo Ive found
the key is getting in close and precise shot placement

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...0-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

cast from 95% WW alloy and 5% pure tin size .430 load over 21 grains of h110 and use a firm crimp
place the shot correctly and you have dead game, yeah occasionally they run a couple yards , generally not!



watch the video, (link below) from what Ive read hes using a ruger 44 mag revolver loaded with 300 grain hornady bullets

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/44-cal-430-300-gr-xtp#!/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=sKTeEmNUkjw

I shoot both a 44 Special and a 44 Mag. When in Griz country (almost everywhere around here lately) I load 285 grain Hard Cast WFNGC bullets from Beartooth bullets @ 1250 fps in the Mag. In Black Bear country like NE Oregon, I take the 44 Special with 240 grain JHP Noslers @ 1050 fps. If I carried one of these for defense against humans it would be with the 200 grain XTP @ 1130 fps in 44 Special cases --- It's crazy accurate in either revolver.

I'll second that diagram being spot on regarding A and B.

Am curious what the resident "scientific consensus" is for jacketed hollowpoints...on bears.

Am curious what the resident "scientific consensus" is for jacketed hollowpoints...on bears.[/quote


My point was that Black Bears are different than Griz. I don't believe in HPs for all bears.-- just Blacks. In the places I frequent, the difference between a Griz and a Black is kinda like the difference between an Elk and a Whitetail. I think a hardcast would work fine for Black Bear also, but people with way more experience than me say that HPs are more effective. In fact, I used to load 255 grain WFNGC hardcasts in the 44 Special for Bear protection on the Oregon Elk hunt before I got my mind changed.

didn't some nimrod recently shoot a black bear about 8-9 times with a glock 20 and hollow points without his intended results, fmj would probably be better than hp's.

SherriffJoe, you and I are from the same area so I'm sure you agree that our blacks aren't usually very big, with the odd exception of course. Having only shot some of the carcasses of our local bears (never had a need to shoot a live one with a pistol), I think I'm pretty comfortable with tough hollow points even in the common service calibers (9/40/45), and even then don't expect a problem except with nuisance camp bears. We do get the occasional big/fat black bear, had one at my parent's house last year eating the compost, but even they don't seem to need a lot of gun especially if you can shoot for the head. My parents bear was a real porker, he ate a couple buckets of carrot pulp and then left carrot droppings all over the place. Thanks a lot, bear. Lol.

Big grizz/brown seem like a whole different thing though, to me at least. Supposedly they are pushing to get them reintroduced here in the Cascades; I hope it's a while before that happens, if ever.

Yondering...you sound sensible. We arm ourselves with the tools we feel will do the job for us. Won't try to deter you from your choices...

Personally, I consider bears, any bears to be locomotives with armor, big sharp teeth and claws. Visitors to our region...be wary!

If you travel anywhere above 542 (31)...be alert. Have seen a couple of big boars (black bears) the last two years north of Shuksan. Saw one up the Chilliwack by Bear Creek and the biggest sow (black) I've ever seen...two cubs with her.

Saw a big one at the north east end of Ross Lake. Lots of bears above the Northern Pickets, too. Matter-of-fact, I always chuckle how many bears are in close proximity to summer hikers and Spring climbers in the North Cascades.

There has been some unverified chatter of Mr. Grizz sticking his snout across the border area, but have yet to see one or its sign.

No, and make sure you can fire it fast and accurately otherwise get something more useful like a 9mm, 40, or moderate 357. A 44 Mag is a pretty $hitty way to start out.

Warm 44 special velocities are where it’s at.

For your needs I would recommend the Remington 240 grain SJHP that dullest expands about the size of a silver dollar and penetrates about like a 230 FM-51 out of a 45 ACP

What I like to do is carry a small sack of different loads with me everywhere I go if a revolver. That way I will be prepared for many different situations should they pop up. If the load I have in my gun isn't suited for the task at hand I unload it and put in the suitable load hoping all the while I will have the time to do so. I try to carry six or seven different loads at a time. If a revolver I carry them in separate speed loaders in a sack fastened to my belt, and in a semi I carry different loads in separate magazines. I will have 5 or 6 different magazines with me at all times.
This way I am prepared.

Wonder if Mr. Elmer Keith did the same thing?

Bullet holes do the killing, not bullets per-se. So the deepest hole you can put in any living creature is 100% In other words, in and out.
So the only other thing that can be "adjusted" is how large the hole is in diameter. That is a subject of much design by bullet makers and there is no way to make any bullet be "perfect" for every application.
In the killing of creatures that are not too thick (like deer and even most bad-men) a hollow point with enough bullet integrity to exit the back side is going to give a larger hole then a solid (with the exception of the LBT designs fired at super sonic speeds.) The down side to the LBT type hunting loads for self defense against human enemies is the fact they they regularly exit moose and buffalo, so it's easy to see the liability that would be involved in using such ammo if you live with neighbors within 300 yards or so. They out penetrate MANY hunting rifles with most hunting ammo.

The 44 Special and the 44 mag have all the power you'd need and then some for defense against human enemies, so you as a handloader can adjust to the needs you will have. For game of body sized of 450 and more, I have found that soft points and HPs are not as good, let alone better then SWCs and LBTs. The bullet hole allows more hemorrhage even if it's narrower in the first foot or so, if it goes clear through. On elk I have found soft points and hollow points to be disappointing on animals over 400 pounds because of lack of penetration (20" and less)and also lack of a straight wound channel. Those that expand often do not go in straight lines in the animals and the less they expand the better that "straightness' is.

I live well out in the country so my 44s (both SPLs and Magnums) are loaded with ammo I can use for killing cattle, horses, bear, deer, elk and anything else because I have miles of range and no one out there. If you live in town like most people do I might suggest a 180 grain HP like a Hornady XTP to make ammo that will not penetrate like a spear tied to a truck. When you are out in the field you can use the same ammo too if you live where the largest thing you'd shoot is a bad-guy, and especially if you are not hunting. If you are hunting you'll usually find having ammo that gives you exits is better because the blood trails such wounds leave makes recovery of deer a LOT easier. Shot right, the 44s usually leave pretty short blood trials too. I have killed several deer and antelope with 250 and 260 grain Keith style SWCs as well as 2 bears and 3 elk, and none of them has gone very far after the hit. A few dropped at the shot. All had exits. I have done that with both 44 mags and 44 specials.

So if a bear charges you, you'll reach for your sack and change loads just before he gets to you? Do you color code your loads so you can quickly decide which of the 6 or 7 loads in your sack would be appropriate for the charging bear?

Awesome post. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Tom

Indeed. Good post.