How long does it take for you to draw when seated in a car all belted in or having lunch at a restaurant...

I ran a "come as you carry" class about 15 years ago and the few people in the class who did pocket carry died in most of the scenarios that were based on real incidents....

I rarely pocket carry but when I do it is usually in a BDU pocket that has Velcro flap hold downs and a dedicated DeSantis BDU holster that holds the gun and an extra magazine.

Just wondering if any of you who do always pocket carry do any "practical practice" and how long it takes you to get a shot off once you know there is a threat to be delt with...

Bob

Laughing. I have a carry option when driving

hey Bob, I only pocket carry when I have to, an appendix carry is something to consider for sitting down a lot.

I pocket carry my J-frame lots of the time and never intended it to be a quick draw combination. It is along and that is really all that I'm after. No quick draw is going to be any faster than if someone already has the drop on you. Then it is comply or die and nothing in my wallet is worth dying over.

That's the problem with front pants pocket carry, and why I gave it up almost twenty years ago. Back pocket is much better, but I transitioned, since about twenty years ago, to 100% IWB belt carry. Exceptions being jacket and coat pocket (S&W Airweight 442), not to mention bathrobe pocket carry (NAA Mini Revolver).

That's not true for proper belt carry. You just need to "wait your turn," i.e., wait for the robber to be momentarily distracted from you. So long as you can draw and fire in under two seconds, you should be able to win the day at that moment in time. But in a front pants pocket, this becomes much less likely.

Pocket carry totally sucks in a car, and it also won’t win a fast draw competition if starting with the hands outside the pocket. Where it shines is in ambiguous threat scenarios because it allows me to have my hand in a firing position on the gun in my front jeans pocket without telegraphing anything. With the right shirt or cover garment, I can even partially draw the gun without being noticed. I like it in scenarios where I am going to be a pedestrian in sketchy areas. That really isn’t an issue where I live now, but it happened a lot where I used to live, and it still is my preferred carry method when I venture to the bigger cities and intend to be walking around downtown a lot.

Having a lightening fast draw is perhaps one of the most over-exploited skills necessary for the average gun-toter. The outcome in deadly force encounters seldom hinges on who gets their gun out first.

The truth is, drawing from a seated position (in a realistic setting ... not some made-up/contrived fantasy) isn't going to be terribly fast no matter where the gun is and in most cases the movement associated with presenting the gun will be telegraphed.

When seat-belted in a car, a cross-draw or shoulder holster is the only thing that's remotely efficient though this is one of those limited situations where ankle-carry makes sense. (I have a friend that utilized ankle-carry to great effect when he was ambushed with a point blank shotgun blast through the open window of his patrol car.)

When I'm in a vehicle and involved in stop and go driving, I often place one of my carry guns (I carry two) under my leg. Same goes when I'm forced to sit in a restaurant booth. When I'm involved in open highway driving, my need for instant access is pretty nonexistent.

As for pocket-carry in general (at least front pocket carry), the advantages far out-weigh the disadvantages when you consider them in totality. Having the option of standing around casually with a firing grip on a gun that's less than a second away from making noise is a pretty significant advantage in the world I live in .... not to mention the fact that the movement associated with me removing my hand from my pocket is completely innocuous.

Action vs reaction is a very real thing and pocket carry can put you way ahead in that cycle of decision making.

Pocket carry is better than no carry, but I would reserve it for cooler regions or even arid areas where a coat/jacket, overalls or parka is worn. Holstered of course.

While walking, back pocket holstered carry, preferably concealed, has potential for quick access.

if i remember right, probably not, one of those guys in the miami shootout had a gun on the seat, hard braking and the gun flew off on the floorboard.
having said that, when i use to drive a patrol car, and stationary, the gun was wedged by the right side of the seat, i am left handed so that was much prefered to getting it out of a left handed holster.
If i am in an area that i deem it warranted, it sits between my seat as driver and the consul, kind of a little pocket, easy to get to.
or in an opened fanny pack sitting right behind the transmission shifter, also easy to get to.
i mostly wear shorts these days, and don't go out all that much. But have used cargo pants to put a pistola in.
i do have a number of older pocket pistols dating back to the early 1900's. One is the remington model 51. I don't know who the prior owner was, but it came with a nice leather holster to fit it, kind of looks like a wallet. Probably carried in the back pocket.

Yes, you can create all sorts of imaginary scenarios where pocket carry doesn't work. And mall ninjas love to imagine all sorts of non-reality.

But the fact is that having a gun with you because of convenience is better than not, and having a gun doesn't eliminate the need for using your head.

But carry on with your fantasies.

years ago a deputy was sitting in a sambo's restaurant with his back to the front door. guy comes in intending on shooting his wife further back. so he puts a round in the back of the deputies head prior to taking out his wife.
to this day i won't sit in a restaurant unless my back is to a wall, and i have clear view of the traffic in the restaurant. usually there is a fanny pack sitting by me on the bench seat with ready access.
In thinking about it tho, i have always preferred some type of holster, rather than having to dig one out of a pocket.

+1 on the fanny pack idea. They can be very handy and quick to access and nobody ever looks twice at them. In winter if I carry anything I have a heavy jacket with two deep pockets right in front on either side of the zipper. Deep enough to be secure but easy to get to.

"to this day i won't sit in a restaurant unless my back is to a wall, and i have clear view of the traffic in the restaurant."


Picked up the habit of sitting in a restaurant or anywhere facing the door after a friend during my youth had been hit in the head with a hatchet from behind.

Don't be the guy on the inside or middle when sitting in booth-type tables.

ALWAYS pay attention to where the EXITs are.

I pocket carry in my cargo shorts/pants pocket. It's low enough that I can access when sitting and can still access quickly when standing.

I pocket carry(Normally a G26 in a Mic Holster or a Bersa Thunder Plus without any Holster ) in a Wrangler cargo Pants Pocket .,I have some Propper BDU Pants on the way to see how I like them.

I also carry a LCP with a Ruger 7 round magazine and Viridian Green Laser in the Viridian holster(automatically turns the Laser on when pistol is removed from the holster} in front pocket of Propper BDU shirt.

Sitting in a truck Getting to a Pocket carry pistol is almost impossible to draw but with the Lcp in my shirt pocket I can access the Pistol very easily when seated

I like the Idea of carrying 2 pistols anyway as if one gun malfunctions I have another.

"fantasies"....I don't think that the Luby's Cafeteria shooting was much of a "fantasy" for those who died nor the 50K Car Jackings a year that occur in the United States in which a couple dozen people a year die.... I have two friends who were both car jacked in the driveways of their homes...if they had been pocket carrying both would be dead vs. having killed the armed people who were trying to hijack them.

Thanks to the rest of you for your answers. I ask only because of a couple of the other threads here dealing with pocket carry... Over on the S&W forums there sees to be a LOT of posters who pocket carry J-frames.


Thanks again...Bob

When you walk, doesn't it bang into your knee?

Like I said, fantasies. And you also don't know what happened at Lubys - so your fantasy is even more screwed up.
Carry on mall ninja.

Yep.

Knowing when to draw is half the skill.

Nope.

Fanny pack SCREAMS gun.

Carried a Glock 27 for a couple years as a duty gun. Holster carry when doing overt duty. Pocket carry when undercover. Practiced both during qualification, mostly standing, but also from a mock up of a squad with old squad seats. Pocket carry worked well, saved my life and ended a knothead's who thought I was unarmed because he saw no holster.

You didn't ask me Hawkeye, but I don't even notice my Model 37 J-frame.. It's the airweight 3inch barrel and boot grip. It's small, light, and convenient. I like to IWB a 9mm, but sometimes the Smith is all i feel comfortable trying to hide.

Anything of any substance at all that I put in my cargo pockets bang into my knee with each step I take.

Well, it's almost 11 here, but you had me curious so I went and slid on a pair of the duluth cargo pants. Bottom of the pocket hits me an inch or 2 above the knee. So... well up on the muscle. Probably why I don't notice. I carry my wallet in the same pocket on the opposite side, because sciatica sucks. Probably another reason I'm used to it.

Like I said, it's not ideal, but better than nothing.

In a vehicle there's always one in the middle console....so drawing from a pocket (or belt carry) isn't an issue.

My wife and my friends have all learned that I won't sit with my back to the door when we're in a restaurant. I used to tell them that it's what got Wild Bill Hicock killed. I am firm believer, and I try to teach others this, in taking notice of your surroundings, especially the people around you. That to me, is one of the keys of survival, wherever you may be, every bit as important as having your gun with you.

I’ve been doing the thing about not sitting with back to door for decades. I also give the Hickok example as my reason, half jokingly, but not.

A friend's carjacking defense was to take his pocket gun and put it in a holster suspended from the steering column by a string as soon as he got in the car. More recently, I have read of others using "Detroit Carry," such as a Blade-Tech Klipt attached to the lap or shoulder belt.

Google has never heard of Detroit Carry. What is it exactly?

I originally noticed it but not anymore. I keep my extra mags in the other legs pocket so I'm balanced as well.

I have found that if you take your gun out of your pocket and Place it in an easier to access place in your vehicle that it is easy to forget to put the gun back in your pocket when you get back out of your vehicle.
So for me it is better to keep my pistols in the same place in my pockets at all times..
Something to give serious thought to.

Or have one dedicated car gun and one dedicated pocket gun.

My understanding is that is is carrying a gun attached to the lap and shoulder belt.

That is a major potential downside. OTOH, if it is attached to the lap and shoulder harness, it should be harder to forgot. Alternatively, the traditional method is the ankle holster, which mostly is used in backup applications.

I find carrying the LCP in a shirt pocket to be the best solution for easy access in a Vehicle,,for me.
I Do Have shirts that do not have pockets big enough to carry the LCP,,I do not wear them anymore .
I buy my shirts with this type of carry in mind.
An Ankle carry Draw in a vehicle will be much slower than drawing from a shirt pocket.

Personally I do NOT like any off body carry if there is any way it can be avoided.
Off body carry just allows more things that can go wrong to go wrong.

The Main issue with this is when I get out of the vehicle I only have one pistol when I could have two.
I do like the "New York Reload".

I do not like any off body carry if it is possible to avoid it.

All solutions in self defense carry both positive and negative consideration. Certainly, I can agree that carrying a gun in pocket holster presents disadvantages when seated. In such seated positions an ankle carry may be a better choice. However, if I am standing at the cash register, pocket carry has advantages over ankle carry since my hand is already in my pocket and on my gun. Clearly, this now beats the ankle holster. Perhaps, we should be sure that anytime we are in a restaurant we are only at the cash register when it gets robbed.

Every fight, including gun fights, are exercises in problem solving first, and then illuminated by skill in executing a considered solution. As Clint Smith has been heard to say, 'you have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long that is may be determined by the solution'. For me, illuminating the potential problems of a seated draw with a pocket carry is a red herring type of argument. I do not see that anyone has posited the pocket carry for "speed of draw". It has positive attributes when wearing light clothing and the ability to carry and conceal a mid sized firearm. In so doing, negative attributes must be considered and evaluated from this decision.

If we all considered that the most important thing we carry into a problem is our brain, then we can evaluate every problem for the most tactically sound response. My initial thoughts from starting this read was to say I would wear my Remington V3-tactical in a sling under my coat and then place it on my lap as I sat at the diner. I am just hoping that no one wants to discuss what wearing a knee length duster will look like in Texas summer heat.

Interesting discussion though,

I've tried to like my Galco J-frame pocket holster, but while it does keep the gun oriented well in my pocket, it is pretty stiff and just the gun alone is more comfortable to carry. Then I bought a Galco ankle holster and wore the hide off the inside of my leg walking around town one day, so that wasn't the hot set up either. Today that little .38 J-frame just rides around on my belt in a cheapo thumb break nylon holster under an untucked shirt or front jean pocket when I want deeper concealment.

In the f150 My draw from seated and belted in were pretty much unrestricted. In the Subaru, from the pocket, it just won't happen.

I bought an inexpensive IWB clip on and wear that on the seat belt

This is my feeling exactly.

When something looks like it may be a threat, but I don't want to overreact without more info, and I don't want to put and keep my hand on the small of my back giving myself away, I like being able to just casually and non-obviously put my hand in my right pocket in case something goes south. I am much more ready to ack very quickly far more often that way.

I put my P938 in a sticky holster in a type of pants pocket that gives a lot of room to draw quickly and cleanly without any advance notice to anyone.

I'm like cheyenne
My pocket carrying is around the house around town in busy places and even to that extent it's usually a back up at that

Gosh, didn't the guy learn anything from watching 1960s TV westerns. Marshal Dillon never sat with his back to the door. And neither have I.

Seated in a car with a seat belt on is very difficult with pocket carry. Seated in a restaurant is a little better because I can lean back a little in my seat to straighten out and draw. Pocket carry is most convenient for walking around in public because it allows you to discreetly put your hand in your pocket without bringing undo attention to yourself.

This place never fails to amuse. Bob asked two questions, and a lot of guys replied - but only one (cv540) answered even one question.

I gave up pocket carry entirely, for reasons almost definitely not applicable to others. Practice only confirms that decision for me. That's my answer. It looks like most of the other answers (unspoken) are "no" and "don't know".

I guess I am semi qualified to give an answer since I do sometimes pocket carry an lcp. However,,,
My preference is a strong side reverse or cavalry draw inside the pants position. This allows a pretty decent draw even when seated and much better than a pocket when seatbelted in. I used this carry method most of my years in an under cover capacity in a drug unit. Dark pistol tucked in under a dark t-shirt tends to disappear.
Les

RJM, When I am driving, I have several handguns with in immediate reach.. Even if I have my J frames in a pocket... My favorite method for pocket carry is in a safari type vest.. I slip one in the right and left pockets, so the vest is balanced.. I can slip my hands easily to either revolver the vest is a bit loose, fast draw would not be a good option.. But I felt if it was mandatory, I would just shoot though the vest?? Maybe a pretty stupid idea, but I am able to carry concealed at times of the year it would be difficult or uncomfortable to carry otherwise...

Did the cop have aces and eights in his hand?

I pocket carry or inside the waist band carry. But when I’m in my truck driving my pistol is resting on my console. I’m always aware of my surroundings period.

I'm from Detroit and I never heard of it.

Where I live if I take the gun off body inside a vehicle and stash it for quick access I would be subject to arrest during any traffic stop. Read your state statute for transporting firearms in vehicles. A dedicated driving only crossdraw or ankle rig?

Attach the holster to the car seat belt.


Prefer another holster attached to steering column... transfer to cc holster when exiting vehicle...mobetr.

I knew a bartender who kept a .25ACP Colt in his hip pocket. At home one night his wife yelled up from the basement that she was doing a load of laundry and for him to throw down the pants he was wearing. When the pants hit the concrete floor the gun he'd forgotten about discharged and put a bullet straight into her ass cheek. He never lived it down, and she never forgot.

This can cause you headaches at least in Nebraska. Recent State Supreme Court ruling says that if the weapon is not on your person then you are not in control of the weapon and any person riding in that vehicle can be charged as carrying a concealed weapon.
Dumb yes, but that’s the way it is.

Yeah, that's why it's not called the Nebraska Carry...


Nebraska gun laws appear to be VERY restrictive after reading the fine print.

When I went to visit my nephew in Arizona last Spring, I saw that he does something very similar, i.e., he has a Glock in a Kydex holster stuffed between his driver's seat and the center console. Not sure if it's legal for just anyone to do it, because he's a cop there. I imagine it is, though, since that state is very good on gun rights.

The Nebraska Supreme Court clarified an existing law regarding concealed carry in cars by **non-permit holders**, ruling that guns must be stowed in a location that is completely unavailable to the driver at all times.

Where I'm at today... you better have a CHL to EVEN have a loaded magazine in public.

We’re an open carry state, always have been. When they made this ruling our local gun rights group got all in a tizzy about people were going to get arrested for transportation of their duck guns or deer rifles. Not so. Hard as it may seem but those weapons and transportation of them has always been covered under Game laws. Unloaded with the action open, visible or cased no rounds in the chamber, magazine or tube. Handguns in plain sight.
The case that sent them into a tizzy was a guy had a loaded handgun in a case which was not readily visible. Plus he didn’t tell the officer he had it.
Now as far as can I tuck one in between the seat and console Yes with a CHP. Can I have a 10” knife stuck under the seat No, even with CHP.
Can I messican carry Yes, but if for any reason I am disarmed by LE, paramedics etc etc, they can’t legally give back the weapon unless I have a holster on my person. Which also applies to the one between the seat, hanging from the column or magnet on the dash.

Worse, Nebraska law indicates you are required to DISCLOSE the fact and location of concealed carry when asked by LE.

Ha Ha even when it was visible if I got stopped I would always tell the officer that the handgun was in the car on the front seat. Figured it was a courtesy thing, nothing worse than a pissed off cop. Most of the county sheriffs are reasonable, but I wouldn’t put anything past some of the shoot happy city and state police not to blow my brains out if I moved and then they saw the handgun. When I have talked to a cop on duty and stated I was carrying, not once have I had to disarm or show my license. All I ever got was a thanks for informing.

Hey Sherriff Joe.

Back about 93-94 my wife got pulled over for speeding on our way to the horse races in Grand Island. They had that eye in the sky going off I80. Anyways pulled over when 3 State boys were there. Young cop came up said something like Do you know why we stopped you? Wife looked at him and said “ My hands are on the wheel and I am not moving till you know there’s a loaded handgun right there.” Guy about sh*t, eyes got big, started sweating like he had just run into Bonnie & Clyde. About 15 minutes later the senior officer came up and told my wife she was being cited for speeding only, we did nothing else wrong. I am handling this to give the other officer a break. Thank you, sign here please. 😀

I agree in some ways duty to inform is somewhat obtrusive, but fact is My license plates are tied to my DL, my CHP is tied to my DL. The cop already knows about it when my plates are run or a good probability.

right after the ccw laws were passed, a guy, the driver, had a gun between the front seats. He had the ccw permit, so they arrested his wife who didn't, as she had access to the gun.
that was one of the reasons my wife got a ccw license.
as the right to carry is in the state constitution, open carry unless in a restricted place is not an issue. few years ago, they changed the laws again, and a non felon with rights of gun ownership has the right to carry without permit.
so to answer your question, it isn't an issue.

come to think of it, a friend of mine driving a mustang convertible by error got in trouble for stashing a gun below the drivers seat and forgot about it. Not really any secure place in a convertible and he thought that was the safest. He bought the ticket when he got stopped for something and the car was search. Not an issue today.

'pends on how tight my pants are. I do practice draw and fire from the pocket, but not to the exclusion of other tactics. The gun is just one tool in the bag. Knifework and sprinting away are at least as important as the gun.

Being sinistral, my first reaction to the idea of drawing while in the driver's seat is to use the vehicle to eliminate the threat rather than the gun. My truck is the biggest bullet I have.

In situations where I think I might be vulnerable to someone "getting the drop" on me, my hand is in my pocket holding the revolver. Doesn't get any faster than that.

First time I tried to get it out of my pocket while seated so could go in the post office was the last day it was in my pocket when I am driving.
It now comes out of my pocket and is nestled between the parking brake and the console when I am driving.
Moral of the story . . .
Dang near impossible to draw from the pocked while seated in a vehicle, at least not in any reasonable length of time!