Clearly I have been out of the loop.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ammo-review-seismic-ammo-185gr-m-9mm/amp/

Elevating the nine to a whole new level 😎

I’ll bet a 155 grain 1,000+fps version would rock.

I like it.

115 grain JHP at 1250 fps would rock even harder...wait

if I'm carrying a 9 I like a bit more speed

Interesting.

If I want a bullet that heavy, I'm just going with a 45.

Kinda like a .40 eh.

Reading my mind. Go to a 230 at 850-950 fps.

I've done my own cast bullet designs up to 180gr for suppressed subsonic loads, and can run those up to ~900 fps. I like my 170gr design a bit better though at about 950 fps.

Other than quiet suppressed loads though, I'm not sure I see a whole lot of value in trying to turn the 9mm into a slower skinnier 40 S&W. That's not where the 9mm's strengths are.

I'll second that emotion.

As MacKay Sagebrush says "you get the fight you get not the fight you want" fact is faster bullet speeds penetrate car doors better than slower rounds.

I think this is basically aimed at the guy who

A. has one or seven 9mms and likes the cheap practice ammo, but
B. wants to launch bullets into the 'light 45 ACP' weight class.

In my opinion this would more easily accomplished by buying any of dirt cheap police trade-in 40s that will accept an aftermarket 9mm barrel.

Neither A or B apply to me but the project demonstrates how handgun bullets have improved in 40 years. Hell I can remember when full snort 158 grain 357s didn't expand any better than these 185 grain 9mms do.

Like the 9 but don't need no mo than about 125 grains of lead and copper in it. Like the 44 Mag. but don't need no mo than about 300 grains in it, and normally not near that much.

For their hot 115gr load Buffalo Bore claims 1,400fps and 500ft lbs ME....

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=118

Prob’ly significant that the shortest barrel they published results on was on a 4” Glock 19.

Federal 9BPLE usually does 1320-1350 from 4-5 inch 9mms.

9mm strengths

Underwood 65 gr.

1800 fps

Twenty years back, the big three all had +P+ loads that were LEO only that hit 1350 fps. IIRC, the one Sarge quoted used to be about 1250 fps and was the best you could do in a conventional non-LEO only loading. It may have been upgraded with better powders.

Edited to say, I believe the non-LEO Federal was a 9BP. It was a standard pressure loading and not +P or +P+.

So a 40gr Vmax is a better at punching through car doors than say a 75gr TSX?

I didn't even know there were such options out there in 9mm....where do we buy those?

Since we are talking 9 mil - JWP - what bullets do you prefer? Guessing a 124 bonded? Ranger or GD? PDX1? Thoughts on HST and even XTP which seem to dig deep in gel tests.

The 9BP and BPLE are legendary perhaps, but they don't seem to hold together great in tests, which makes me pause.

Hope to never have to shoot thru a door, a 556 might do better......did I read a 45 does better than 9? Perhaps that's with FMJ.

Interesting load above, but think 147 tops out a 9 for me. I'd gladly run a 40 or 45 with 180/185s....agree with Sarge, PD trade in's are very good values....in 40

I see your attempt at derailing the thread, but the fact is - yes that is correct, other than the fact there is no .223 75gr TSX to compare with your 40gr Vmax. Assuming you mean the 70gr TSX though - yes, a 40gr at higher velocity will punch through thicker steel (or aluminum) plate than a slower 70-75gr bullet. That is the opposite of what they do in meat where the heavier bullet usually can penetrate better.

Same is true for 9mm. For example, a couple of my loads are a 100gr hard cast bullet at 1450 fps, and a 180gr hard cast at 900 fps. Both have similar meplat size and are cast from the same alloy. The 100gr load will punch through 1/4" aluminum plate easily and blow up a couple water jugs on the back side, while the 180 gr won't make it through the plate at all, or several layers of thinner sheet metal. On the other hand, the 180gr penetrates a long way in soft media, much further than the 100gr fast bullet.

Thank you Sir for this info

My own preferred loads in 9mm are the various 147 grain bullets. My concerns are different than most here. When doing paid bird counts I frequently end up in close proximity to feral hogs in locations where they are not hunted or shot, and consequently display a reduced fear of humans. At the same time, accessing randomly assigned count points often has me pushing through dense cover. Numerous times I have flushed resting hogs at close range, they do not seem to react to the sound of my approach pushing through the brush and undercover.

In the past 30 years only ever had a problem with one; a large boar that was reluctant to yield the path.

At the same time going armed is frowned upon by the employer, so I go concealed carry, preferred handgun at present is a Springfield Armory XDs (cap. 9+1).

In the brush I carry Buffalo Bore 147gr lead solids, everywhere else similar velocity hollowpoints. If I ever am jumped by a hog, hopefully ten rounds of them Buffalo Bores at point blank range will get it done.

Spot on! It seems that most do not realize that it takes speed to penetrate steel. A 55 grain varmint bullet at 3600 FPS will penetrate completely through 3/8" steel st 50 yards a 240 grain at 1400 FOS from a 44 will not, yet on a pig the 44 will penetrate deeper

I prefer and carry the lighter faster 9mm loads for my own use, but for what you describe, sounds like heavy solids are the way to go. Good example how one guy's needs are different than others.

What is a "paid bird count" though? I'm not familiar with that term.

Exactly that, where one is paid under contract to go out and count and or census birds present and/or in certain cases evaluate the habitat. Paid for by environmental consultants, , non-profits or varying levels of government entities. Nowhere near close enough to make a living, but like free money to a guy like me.

Lots of people are hobbyist bird watchers but it can be surprisingly hard to find a relative expert like myself who will also scrupulously follow count and data reporting protocols.

Or keep close company with feral hogs 🙂

You get a reputation for delivering what you said you would. I get a call or two most years, dunno how much longer I’ll have the ears for it tho.

Interesting, I learned something new today. Thanks for the reply.

I want to follow up to this post again with some photo evidence, although I've posted the picture here in other threads already. This is a 32gr 20 Tactical @ 3900 fps on top vs a 75gr 5.56 @ 2650 fps on the bottom. (The 20 Tactical is basically just the 223 case necked down to 20.) 5/16" high strength steel plate. That 75gr 223 definitely penetrates better in soft tissue, but the roles are reversed on hard surfaces like steel. With that said - penetration of multiple layers is different, but in the case of light/fast 9mm vs heavy/slow 9mm the light/fast loads usually still do better.

Spot on, speed penetrates steel better than slower

I will definitely be blasting more steel with this little 20 cal laser beam, to see what it does. No pics, but it cratered a 1/2" piece of AR400 pretty good the other day. Maybe 1/4"-3/8" deep? Didn't go through, but looked like a 308 on similar sized mild steel plate. I'll be sacrificing a piece of AR500 as well to see what happens, once max loads are developed, and maybe try a 24gr @ 4,400-ish for fun. Pics will be posted at some point.

Most likely 4,400 FPS will make a hole in your AR500 plate.