https://www.swatmag.com/article/j-frame ... uide-life/

Interesting article in SWAT magazine; Check it out.

Airweight snub is an overwhelming choice of many habitual carriers, however, the J Frame requires adjustments in mindset to offset its limitations.

Lately, against the counsel of many of my more appropriately armed friends, I have taken to carrying a Smith & Wesson Model 642 Airweight .38 revolver. I have my reasons, as undoubtedly do the many legions of permit holders and off duty personnel who slip the snub into a pocket and sally forth. I carry the J Frame having trained with it hard and understanding its limitations.

Carrying the 642 caused me to re-evaluate my personal tactics, training, and attitude. In doing so I had to develop a “J Frame Mindset.” Years ago I made certain assumptions based upon the perceived effectiveness of what I was carrying. Having abandoned many of those notions while carrying the J, I realized that the new mindset was just as applicable to better weaponry. After discussing this with peers who carry service pistols exclusively, it occurred to me that these tenets might apply just as well to them.
Diminutive sights, light weight, and abbreviated grip demand that the shooter train hard with the snubbie to ensure the best possible hits. Realistic training allows the shooter to establish what is—and what isn’t—possible out of the platform.

AVOIDANCE
Having a five-shot .38 on board does not bestow special powers nor equip me to seek trouble and meddle in iffy situations. I can react to trouble that finds me despite my best attempts to escape it. My personal duty requires only that I protect my family and self.

However, it is understood that LE professionals have additional responsibilities. For them, avoidance is likely more geared to not getting overcommitted and gaining back up before getting in too deep. I would submit that a pistol of any caliber and capacity is not the best answer when seeking to purposefully engage predators. They make things for that—rifles, shotguns, several other good guys in tow, and preferably close air support.

IT WON’T WORK!
I do not expect that launching a Gold Dot or five is going to bring hostilities to a screeching halt and send the brigands in full retreat. I fully expect that the introduction of the J will only 1) allow me to break contact and extricate myself from a mess I didn’t see coming and avoid, or 2) soften the threat, who must then be violently dealt with using any and all means. I fully anticipate having to immediately transition to strikes or weapons of opportunity once the fight is joined. Have single round-nosed lead .38 bullets ended fights? You bet. But many more gunfights (even with the latest major caliber bullets launched from the greatest of high capacity pistols) turn into nasty groundfights.

Having a pistol does not mean that the fight gets to be a duel, only that it may start that way. I do not intend to have a pregnant pause after my payload is delivered—I train to either be making tracks or closing with and destroying the threat as the situation warrants. This means incorporating a great deal of aggression into the response and having a passable capability to attack, whether that means ramming the 1 7/8-inch barrel into an eye socket or hammer fisting the throat.

It may get dirty, but mentally I accept that. A good many pistoleros maintain a mental image that the pistol will conduct all hostilities by proxy at a comfortable seven to ten yards and are not mentally prepared for the possibility that it won’t work. Which leads to…

I PROBABLY WON’T GET TO RELOAD
The fight likely began with me on the wrong side of the reaction cycle, so reloading smoothly in the midst of the active violence is not to be expected. The stats just don’t support it. Sure, I train at it. Even using strong and support hand only. But I imagine that the chances to reload in the situations where I would be shooting in the first place are slim.

The Bianchi “Speed” strips I carry—while flat and easy to carry—are anything but speedy, requiring the alignment and stripping off of two rounds/cylinder holes at a time. This is why many J Frame aficionados train to only reload with four rounds, figuring that it is more efficient to be back in the fight with four on tap, than to extend the out of battery time by 33 percent to gain one round. However, even were I carrying an auto, the chances of executing that 1.5-second emergency reload in a real fight just don’t match up to the time/space evaluations of many personal defense environments. I mentally intend to get the job done with what’s in the weapon or go to plan B or C. And since I only have five pills…

MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT
Wide employment of high-capacity pistols with respectable power has led some to accept weak accuracy and wasteful tactics. The capacity limitations and marginal energy inherent to the J Frame demand that I shoot well. To do this I must train to know exactly what I can and can’t accomplish with the weapon. For me, that equals about 25 yards before hits get into the “get closer or E&E” mode.

The addition of Crimson Trace Lasergrips to the Airweight is nearly mandatory, increasing recoil control, adding useful training value in mastering the double-action trigger in dry fire, and adding confidence to shot placement in situations where the marginal sights are difficult to acquire.

The adage that a snubbie is an expert’s weapon means that considerable training effort must be applied for it to be useful. The limited energy means I must train to quickly deliver up to the entire cylinder to the best target areas of a single threat or quickly divide the shots to the very best soft spots available on multiples. The limited capacity encourages me very strongly to avoid multiple threat scenarios, which leads to where this discussion began.

I feel that the J Frame mentality has better prepared me to protect those who depend on me. A frank and honest evaluation of your personal mission role, environment and available weapons may lead to a similar change in mentality and guide appropriate changes in training and behavior.

I carry a 640 sometimes .

I found replacing original boot grip with S&W Combat grip (slightly larger and longer by about 1,5cm) helped with recoil. Ammunition of choice is Federal Premium HST Micro +P. The recoil is manageable there is little flash and the bullet is completely enclosed in case just like target wadcutter preventing bullet pullout under recoil.

Target wadcutters and rubber grips.

I don't often carry a snubby but when I do...

photo free upload

Seems all reasonable. I occasionally carry an Airweight J-Frame .38, but it's usually because it's cold out, and I'm wearing a long winter coat, making access to my IWB Glock slow, so I toss the J-Frame in the coat pocket. The Glock then becomes the backup.

But the author makes good sense.

This is the one that's kept loaded and on standby to stick in a coat pocket.

M&P 340 for me, with 135gr .357 Gold Dots clocked at 1025 fps. Not for tender men, but they sure do expand a lot better than the 38's.

I've had a CCW permit now for 27 years(damn I'm getting old!). During that time, I've carried lots of different guns from big to small. Over the last few years, I've finally stopped lying to myself and just accepted the fact that the gun I'm going to carry 99% of the time is my 642. I can carry it no matter how I'm dressed or what I'm doing. Like the author above, I've accepted that it has limitations and isn't always the best tool for the job. It is the tool I can always have with me though and that's better than the perfect tool left at home.

My usual mode of pocket carry:


When I belt carry, it rides in a Milt Sparks PMK:


To date, the only blood I've spilled with it has been on 4 legged critters. Lord willing, it'll remain that way.

I like that holster! What make/model is it?

Friend of mine in Co. made it, think it was the second one he made. His web site is www.sweetwatersaddlery.com. He's a good guy and makes a great product. He's getting ready to retire, or at least threatens to lately. Tell him Skip sent you and he'll only charge you double.

My 442 in a Nemesis with a speed strip is a carry favorite, lite, easy, comfortable

I've got a 442, also. Ideal for certain applications. The J-Frames are likely the best selling S&W revolver at this point.

Great post Cariboujack!!!

I carry the same firearm and have exactly your mindset!! Thanks for the post!

My 38 snubbie is great but I prefer the 432PD, I shoot it better.
The Crimson Trace grip is nice but I don't expect I'll have time to switch it on in a crisis.. I practice without it mostly.

Does S&W still make those? A six shot .32 Magnum J-Frame makes a lot of sense.

I haven't seen another one for several years and suspect they may have been pushed out by the 327Fed?
I like the performance level of the 32H&R and the 327 is too much of a good thing for me.
The only way I'd let this one go is if my sweetheart wanted to carry it, she shoots it well too.

My 1st gun fight,in this country, occurred in a vehicle against 2 very bad guys. I was working deep UC and was carrying a S&W mod 36 in a rib belt, no reloads. I walked [ran] away w/ temporary deafness and an empty gun not knowing if there were more BGs in the area. I have never carried a revolver for self defense since that day. Obviously that little 36 saved my life but I know that being pumped, scared and out of ammo is worse than the discomfort of carrying a real fighting gun.

One person's reality. YMMV



mike r

When working in uniform patrol my old M38 Bodyguard Airweight was in service for a very long time. It rode in an ankle holster as a backup. It was there when I needed it, one night especially so. I carried it when I worked dope on a narcotics task force. The issued gun was the Walther PPK .380. I hated that little boat anchor. It had a terrible trigger and jammed way more than I could get comfortable with. Against regulations I carried the snubbie. That old gun is pretty beat up and I've retired it. A M642, no lock, gets the call now. I don't feel naked when I have my snubbie.

S&W 442 in a Sam Andrews pocket holster. My hand loads. Two speed strips in the other front pocket, in a custom made leather pouch. Many years of practice.

Good stuff. Tag

One that gets used!!!


Mike

Let us not forget excellent light weight revolvers once made by Colt. Six-shot Agent comes to mind. With current prices for second-hand pre-lock, pre-MIM S&W revolvers certain Colts are now worthy competition for them.

I have a model 38 as well.....great little BUG!

I was a Police Officer in the 14th largest city in the US for 33 years until my retirement in 2018. For a whole bunch of that time I carried an S&W 649 as a back up and off duty gun. When I retired, I bought an S&W 642 Airweight snubby because it's much lighter. I still find myself carrying my Glock 43 9mm with an 8 round mag in my pocket about 95% of the time. Just as easy to conceal, and way faster to reload. A snubby can sure save your life. This day and age a small powerful auto just feels like a better choice for my needs.

Ron

I recently picked up a old Colt detective special made in 1971 to carry as my backup.

I like the idea of six rounds instead of five.

My Wife packs a S&W airweight chiefs special.

Sorry, I can't do pictures.

Virgil B.

Detective Specials are awesome. I carried one EDC for years.

It is good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that 5 is enough though when I asked the group that question a while back, the consensus was that it wasn't. Okay, I'm on the waiting list to get myself an alloy CZ 75 D PCR Compact, but that one is still 27.5 ounces and my favorite J-frame pre-lock .38 Special + P 337PD only weighs 9 ounces. I'm not a leo looking for trouble, just a ccw guy trying to avoid it and that tiny J-frame in a pocket or ankle holster sure beats having nothing. Where I go currently I'm way more likely to encounter a cottonmouth snake than a bad guy and a CCI shot load or a Hornady PD + P load could work in either scenario.

Gave my daughter my S&W Airweight, this is my backup.

I'd like to find another 317 snubbie .....22LR 8 shot.
My niece claimed mine and I miss it. LGS only have the longer barrelled version.

I carry a 360pd in 357 mag for hiking. EZ to carry but painful to shoot:

https://imgur.com/a/YRONcpS

One at my front door. One in my wife’s car. One in her purse, and one in my pocket. And a spare. They all are on the job. Hasbeen

That holster is poorly made - look at the stitch line on it forward of the cylinder. I can do better, if you're interested.

And Taurus also makes a lightweight concealed-hammer 6-shot revolver, the 856CH: https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/856ch/

I carry a +P rated 38 Spcl S&W 649-2 (1 7/8" bbl ) with Speigel boot grips, or a 3" full-lug S&W model 60-4 38 Spcl with factory rubber combat grips. Great revolvers. These J-frames are more accurate than you think.

Load is a hard-cast SOLID-base 148 grain wadcutter over 3.5 grains Bullseye (Lee tumble lube DEWC or H&G #50 ).

Good article by Ed Harris about full-charge double-ended hard-cast wadcutters in the 38 special :
https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

I have some Buffalo Bore loads of full power, hard cast, 150 grain wadcutters.

I have a 36 "Flat Latch" that I carry sometimes, which I trained on quite a lot in another lifetime. I shoot the 36 really well, and in single action mode I can hit pretty keen out to 25-30 yards. I think carrying any type weapon that a person is used to and shoots well, makes better sense than opting for a pistol just because it holds more rounds that they don't shoot as well. I never feel under gunned with a .38 special and the right ammo.

The cool factor is important when deciding what to carry.
Bob

That's really nice.

My 442 is my most carried gun I own. I use a Galco Hornet carried crossdraw.
IMO perfect for all concealable situations. Standing, sitting, reaching, bending over.

Triggernosis, I said up front that was the 2nd holster he made. That was several years ago. Maybe you should have gone to his website and look at what he does now. He makes a good product at a fair price, maybe not as good as yours, but pretty good and has a very good reputation in the area. I know it's easier to run down something than actually spend the time checking it out. I haven't seen your products I can't comment.

I carry an M&P340 every day with DPX. I shoot the hammerless guns really well if I "choke up" on the backstrap.

That is a beauty of a Baby Chief. Probably pretty rare with the small trigger guard, old style hammer spur, and a ramped front site.

I concur.

My Model 30-1 (.32 S&W Long) just got bumped aside by a Model 632 (.327Fed). Both are 3", and the 632 has the ported barrel.
If the .327Fed is a bit too heavy a round I'll just go to the Federal JHP rounds (or load my own with the 100gr JHP instead of the 85gr Federal uses).

S&W no longer makes any .32 revolvers... unfortunately. They made the .327Fed back in 2011 or so, and a hammerless one as well for a bit... but lost interest and dropped it just like they had done the .32 H&R earlier.

I ran into mine at a gun show - for barely over $1,000. Yes, much pricier than when it was new, but much less than I've seen them go for in online auctions.

Since I can't resize my photo of mine small enough to satisfy this board's limit and still have it clear, I'll attach a stock photo:

Sorry, I didn't even see a mention of a name of the maker. I didn't intend to run another person's work down - I thought it was some sort of off-the-shelf brand.

The Real Hawkeye like the grips on your 442. Where are they from?

Thanks. I cannot recall the maker, and it's not marked on them. Sorry. Could be someone here remembers when I posted the name of the maker here in the past and will chime in.

Thank you for the reply, Triggernosis. You are a Gentleman and a standup guy

Sundays are good days for J Frames!

They are about a million times better than harsh words. I confess to having had a few periods of time when a J-Frame .38 was my primary daily carry. I've been daily carrying since 1980, though, so that's a lot of time to have had all sorts of guns as my primary daily carry. Not a thing wrong with them, though.

Nice choice of ammo. I'm assuming those the the Buffalo Bore 150 grain, hard cast, full wadcutters.

You assume incorrect. Those are Lost River Ammo loads

I would assume its his own ammo.

Because he's a commercial ammo maker....

Same principle, though.

Me too

J-Frame 38s are not limited to just the ubiquitous 1-7/8” barreled versions:



Though, the lightest shortest does seem to get carried most often:

3" 357 mag Model 60 with some Buffalo Bore 38's. It's a bit of a handful with their 180 grain hardcast 357's.



Regards, Guy

When I carry a small revolver this is what I’m most comfortable with. Seems to point better for me too.

JWP is correct,

They are of my own manufacture.

Some day, and I suspect this day will never come, S&W will come out with a J-frame 357 scaled and modeled to look like the 6" M27.

They did. It’s the model 60 with a 5” barrel. I have one along with a 63, 5” barrel. I think they’re my favorite J-frames.

Rockin' the Gerber Bolt Action...nice.

Still have a couple bouncing around in the truck and day packs.

Yep

The Gerber Bolt Actions are excellent knives. American made, lightweight Zytel handles, very good steel that sharpens quick and holds and edge. Really they are superb knives and just the right size. They have not been made in about 30 years and have become kind of a collector's item now.

I was looking through some pics and found a few of the old Gerber Bolt action (slight thread drift).....

Really a great lightweight knife.



Goes well with lightweight guns.

I've been carrying the same Gerber lockblade since the early 1980s. This one. Still holding strong, and is used about every day. 2.5" blade. Takes a razor edge easy, and holds one well, too.

Well, dammit, now I'm a gonna have to find one! This site always winds up costing me money

That looks quite a bit like the Dozier design Ka-bar small knife I carry every day, minus the thumb stud and pocket clip.

My 642 was my most carried handgun, Now it is a Glock 43. No regrets. I still have it and my wife wants to keep it in her purse!

There’s a 2” Model 60 calling my name in the consignment case at the lgs, along with a 2” 64 singing the same song. So far I’ve been able to come home without them, because I want to reduce numbers, but they are small, don’t take up much space….

Long live the J-frame.

Just an FYI, the Gerber Bolt Action design came from the mind of "dogzapper" and he describes the relationship with Gerber after in less than glowing terms.

The BA Fillet knife is simply the best knife I have found for cutting huge quantities of mixed species and shapes of fish. There are better halibut knives, but for the rest of what we do it is exactly what I am used to and like. Three are still around and have been forever...

I've got an old beater 637 which shot a little left when I got. I tightened the barrel a tad and now it's dead on for windage and elevation with 158 grain bullets. If I'm up & moving around, it's on me.

That is pretty interesting. Thanks for the info.

Looks like you have the .22s and .38s pretty well represented.

Since we're having a general J-frame love fest (a good thing, mind you), here's a not Snubby one.

Model 35-1, made around 1972 best as I can tell.

I bought my snubby Model 60 back in the early 1980s. There was a huge gun store that was advertising them for a ridiculous discount, so I made sure to be there at opening to grab one. This store was known to be crooked, and all their salesmen were [bleep]. I walked right back to the gun counter and said I'd like to buy the advertise Model 60. The salesman said he didn't recommend it. He recommended something else, because the new Model 60s were known for being complete garbage. I had to argue with the guy for ten minutes before he'd finally agree to sell me one, and he didn't seem happy.

Classic lost leader, and they were trying hard to steer people to something else.

My Model 60 still works great.

Maybe he didn’t like the look of your money… that’s just nuts😊

You live in Palmer Alaska, therefore, five or six-shot revolver is more than sufficient.

He wanted to steer me into something that wasn't 40% off.

My 36, I bought this about 42 years ago. It's a nice little revolver, that rides nice in a holster.
Amazing how nice the trigger is, once I had it worked on.
Every household should have at least one of these little gems.

Can someone please explain to me how the revolvers in these photos do not shoot incredibly low vs. point of aim?

I believe it has to do with muzzle flip vs barrel time.

I have heard of this theory, but I find it hard to believe there could be any consistency with different charges and different weight of projectiles. The third revolver, the stubby barrel with the boat sail for a front sight and a frame groove for the rear. At 7 yards a chest shot looks like it would actually be a nut shot looking at the geometry.

Take any centerfire revolver of .38SPL or larger caliber, balance it upside down on its sights on a flat surface, and marvel at the angle of the bore.

Strangely enough, this angle works out okay because recoil begins as soon as the bullet starts moving through the bore, and causes the revolver to rotate muzzle upward in the hand until the barrel is in line with the target before the bullet exits the bore. That is why consistency of grip is so important to precision revolver shooting, or precision shooting with any holster-weight, larger caliber handgun, for that matter.

In the photos, each of those J-Frame S&Ws has an XS Tritium dot front sight installed. The intended POI with such a sight is directly behind the center of the Tritium dot, not above the top of the sight, as it would be with a 6 o’clock hold. Therefore, the front sight is even taller. The center of the dot is about where the top of the factory-original front sight would be.

So, you are correct that if those sights were aligned with their tops even and at 6 o’clock to the point of aim, the POI would be very low.

60-7 & 36-7 last of the best.

Short of my M631 32 H&R (discounting my rimfire J-Frames) this one landed a couple of days ago.

Congrats. Use it well.

Grips and a pocket holster are en route.

I still carry that same knife and have since the early 90s. I have at least 2 more still new in the package that I bought back then because I liked them do much. I was looking for some other stuff the other day and came across the new ones which was a nice surprise to know they're still around. I really like the light weight and it seems like good steel.

Bb

Forty years of nearly daily service, and still going strong. Says a lot.