Bought a Ruger SP101 .327 Fed for wife to use for home defense some years ago. Part of the rationale was that while .327 Fed loads might be too much for her, downloaded .327 Fed Mag or factory .32 H&R Mag or .32 S&W Long loads could be used instead.

Turns out even the "reduced recoil" the .327 Fed Mag loads were still too much for my wife. Didn't have dies ($99 !!!) for the .327 Federal Mag so I bought some .32 H&R Mag loads instead. Curious about the difference in performance and recoil, I fired one of each into a bucket with about 8" of sand in it.

The difference in recoil (85g @1020fps vs 1400fps per factory specs) was pretty significant, as expected. Purchased the .327 Federal dies along with 85g and 100g XTP bullets. Am guessing I'll end up with a defensive load my wife is comfortable with using the 100g at around 1000-1100fps.

Here's what the two bullets fired into sand looked like:

.32 H&R on left, .327 Fed Mag on right

Have your wife do a lot of practicing with the 32 magnum loads, that will get her confidence up. Keep the gun loaded with 327 loads in case she ever needs to use it on a bad guy, do you think she will ever know the difference? She probably won't even hear it go off!
I did that with my 15 yr old daughter when she drew her first elk tag. She shot all summer with reduced cast bullets in her 308, then I loaded & zeroed it with 150 gr Hornady's & she shot a 5X5 bull elk, one shot & didn't know for several years it was a different load.

Dick

The recoil from the .327 is just too much for her. She is a leukemia survivor with low muscle strength and brittle bones. The H&R level loads should do fine at defensive distances.

From what I recall, the 85 JHP in the .32 H&R supposedly punches above its weight as a home defense cartridge. I'd seriously consider just using that rather than downloading the .327. In addition, it avoids the factory vs. handload issue if the worst ever occurs and she actually needs to use it.

What "issue"?

"Ladies&gentlemen of the jury regular ammo wasn't enough No! She shot my poor downtrodden client with Megadeath nuclear black talon rip'em guts out Ammonutioyn!" That issue. I'd just use the h&r magnums.

Show a case where this has ever been an issue

I've heard it repeated a lot on the internet and have heard it at the gun counters, does that count? LOL...... I think Massad Ayoob wrote about it once and now a lot of the non-handloading shooters are regurgitating the point.

Don't think it has ever been an issue in a court case, just on the internet. Just have her use what she can handle, that's the best you can expect.

Dick

Random ?: are the downloaded feds still loud as hell?

Correct

I have an SP101 in .32 H&R and the recoil is quite light - enough so that my wife can shoot it comfortably even with her arthritis... That's a neat little round - and IMHO can be quite effective as a self-defense or home defensive firearm.. The only .327Fed gun I have is a Freedom Arms M97.. The added weight of the FA model helps defray the added recoil of the 327Fed and, in that platform, is really easy to control..

I apologize for further derailing the OP's thread, but...

Lawyers can (and do) try to make an issue out of anything that they think will help their case. But, just because it's been raised as an issue, it doesn't follow that the issue has legs. That said, there is no realistic argument that your legal jeopardy increases due to your use of handloads in self defense.

I once discussed the issue with other judges, the elected sheriff, the elected prosecutor, and a couple defense attorneys, and we all reached the same conclusion: It just doesn't matter. A shooter's righteousness (or criminality) will be determined on other, more significant issues, long before anybody raises the fact that the killing round was handloaded by the shooter.

If anything, there is a stronger argument against commercial ammo being used! After all, Federal, Remington, Hornady, or Whoever doesn't start mass producing a self defense round until they've done serious testing--a TON of serious testing. When they finally decide that they've created the ultimate projectile and are pushing it at the perfect speed, they offer it to America, proudly proclaiming that they have invented the perfect, purpose-built man-stopper! If you want to do maximum damage to the human body, use this round!

Whereas the guy who handloads probably uses the bullet he does, because he "heard they were good" and got a discount if he bought 1000 or more. He uses the powder he does, because it's what he uses for some other gun, and he didn't have to make a special trip to the store. As for speed, he worked up to max book but really can't say why. And, how does it perform? He has no idea; he only shot them at the range to make sure they'd group acceptably and run in his gun; he has no idea what they do against human tissue.

So who has the blacker heart when they walk out the door with their gun--Commercial Ammo Man or Handloader Guy? Commercial Ammo Man is carrying the perfect ammunition for killing, and Handloader Guy is carrying something he put together in his shop.

If you're sitting at the defendant's table in a courtroom, it wasn't your handload that got you there.

Glad that you weighed in. My point exactly handloads are a non issue, yet keeps being regurgitated on the internet

Perfectly said. I've also done some expert witness in regard to shootings. The ammunition never came up. Neither did the firearm. Ever. It was simply a matter of whether or not the shooting was justified. Simply being oxymoron here, as the whole legal case happened to determined this one question.

I wouldn’t base my opinion on how well a bullet will expand solely on results from shooting into sand either. IME the 85gr XTP in the Federal factory 32 H&R load expands well on critters. I am using a 6” barrel so may be working with a little more velocity, but probably not a whole lot.

Water jugs are my favorite test medium and I have around 100 waiting for a warm day at the range. The sand was an expedient, no mess alternative I could use in my garage and the results were entirely as expected.

Call it a fun test while the wife was away.

Anytime is a good time to shoot something! My data may be different too, the 85gr loaf I was using was original Red box Federal from the early 90’s. The load or the bullet or both could have been changed in the interim but they definitely expanded on porcupines, armadillos, and turkeys.

Excellent post, as usual sir... Kudos..

Got my .327 Federal dies, some Starline brass and 100g Hornady XTP bullets. Loaded one up with 4.6g Titegroup over a CCI 500 primer and fired it into sand.

Recoil was, as expected, stiffer than the .32 H&R 85g but still significantly lighter than the Federal 85g or 100g loads. Still gentle enough for my wife to use so I loaded up 49 more.

Here are the three bullets I've recovered from sand. Self explanatory.

I load a bunch of my 327 light for the kids and ladies to play with.

I simply use published light 32 H&R data, and even 32 S&W Long data. Just seat the bullet to the COAL shown in the manual for the smaller cartridge. Titegroup works well in this application.

Other than trying to show off pretty mushrooms, there is zero reason to analyze self defense bullets fired into sand, or to show us pictures of them. Sand has nothing to do with meat when a bullet impacts it, no matter how soft or fine it feels in your hands. It doesn't even produce a mushroom by the same mechanism. Those pictures are misleading.

Water jugs are a step better, but still not something to hang your hat on.

I don’t know the court experiences on that. I remember Massad Ayoob preaching that in his courses and writings on self defensive. Not sure if he knew of such cases or was just considering the possibility. That thinking was the gospel for a time. I’ve heard it challenged more and more lately.

DF

Yep, that's why I posed the question "what issue?" I knew what side he was referring to - I just wanted to be entertained as to how he was going to explain it. ☺️

Just pontificating, but just how the heck could any prosecutor or investigator even tell if you shot someone with ammo that YOU hand loaded? Well, they couldn't. I've purchased bulk handloaded ammo from a couple of different manufacturers over the years. Georgia Ammo was one of them I believe. Looks no different than my own handloads or factory ammo for that matter.
Also, most handloaders don't load to bump up loads to Death Star range - they load mostly for accuracy.

My favorite LGS and gunsmith nearly became my least favorite last fall when he attempted to school me on this matter.

He had tuned my SP 101 in 327 Fed and changed the hammer spring. When we went to test fire my ammo, it was loaded with 120 gr home made powder coated cast flat points over a maximum charge of H110.

He did not like shooting them, and he heartily recommended I NEVER carry them where self defense might be a possibility.

Of course home cast and powder coated bullets would be pretty hard to pass off as a factory load. But if I ever need to use a gun for defensive purposes, the round in the chamber will be my least concern, as long as it is capable of stopping the lethal threat to my family and or self.

While I don't recall the involved officer's name Mas did write about how he used the Speer 200 grain flying ashtray @965 fps in a onduty shooting and how lucky he was that it was not a huge issue but do we really want to feed lawyers anything? I'm debating between the Ruger sp 3"or 4" incher if the 3 had adjustable sights I'd just get that.

I've spent quite a bit of time with .32 mag and .327. I found the .327 pretty unpleasant .. like a rimmed .30 Carbine in a handgun. Hell of a lot of muzzle blast and noise. I like warmer .32 mag loads a lot better than the .327 loads I've tried. I also shook a Single Six .32 mag to death with "Skeeter Skelton Memorial" handloads.

I got to where I just didn't like the .327 no matter how good it looked on paper. I wouldn't do it again.

The .32 mag .. toward the end of my .32 mag shooting, I simplified. Brass brand didn't matter, just keep it separated by brand. Fed is good, Starline is good. Small pistol primers .. I prefer Fed 100 but used WSPs when that's what I had available. Powder charge ... 10 grains of Win 296 or H110. Bullet .. whatever bullet was handy, 85 grain XTP, 90 grain JHC, 100 grain XTP or Speer HP, or 98 grain RCBS SWC.

You might want a powder with a little less flash. Seems like years ago we used 7 grains of AA #7 rather than 10 grains of 296/H110. It's a little over max for the .32 mag but there were no problems and in a gun meant for .327, it's "way-fine."

Another issue I seen raised in print is about wide extreme velocity spreads with .327 loads. Even the factories have been having issues. Brian Pearce has mentioned this a time or two. Not a factor for defense, but might affect accuray for sporting use. The old H&R might be better balanced.

Another quirk with the .327 seems to be that 5 1/2" barrels often give higher velocities than 7 1/2".

The pictures are not misleading at all. They show what happened when those specific loads were fired into a bucket of sand. I don't have any flesh and bone to fire them into and no volunteers.

As expected, the amount of deformation in sand was very dependent on impact velocity. Although the 32 H&R load ***might*** expand in flesh, the results of this test give me much more confidence the other two loads will do so.

Sand = flesh? No.

Do I care? Nope.

CH...ever looked at these...probably expand easier than a jacketed...

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9

If you empty the gun on a perp, there ain't no way in hell anyone could tell whether they were handloaded or not, even with mixed headstanp brass.

Don't know what your LE experience is but the few forensic firearms examiners I have known all would...

Allen Jones who was the editor of the SPEER RELOADING MANUAL up till #13 was with the SW Institute for Forensic Science in Dallas back in the 1970s and 80s...he would easily know the difference...

I wouldn't bet on that assumption. First thing that will happen is someone is going to inspect your brass. Even if you use brass from a major manufacturer, do the primers match factory ammo? Do any recovered bullets match the factory loads? Do you have a stash of matching factory loads at your house, with less than full boxes, or just handloads and the equipment needed to make them? If they really wanted to get into it they could check spectrographic results for the powder residue in the brass. Lots of ways to come to a reasonable conclusion handloads were used.

That said, the possible argument by the prosecution that you handloaded the meanest, deadliest bullet you could find is no different than them making the same argument regarding purchased ammo - you bought the meanest, deadliest ammo you could find.

I have defensive handloads for most of my carry and home/camp defense guns. That said, The ,380, 9mm Luger, .40 S&W and .45ACP get Barnes TAC-XPD, a bullet I don't reload. Don't reload for the .25ACP, either. hat and the .38SPL get Hornady FTX ammo, another bullet I don't reload for.

The 12g gets factory 00 loads. I have . The .357 Mag and .44 Mag are all handloads and the AR magazines (5.56, .300BLK and .308W) are all loaded with handloads. These guns are all kept locked up. If I shoot someone with any of these it is likely a home or camp invasion situation.

My question is, what IDIOT would purchase or build ammo they thought would be the LEAST EFFECTIVE in a defensive and possibly life/death situation?

The good thing about the .327 Federal chamber, like the OP noted in his post, is that you can shoot the .32 H&R in it along with the .32 S&W rounds. Supposedly the .32 auto has enough rim to also work but I never tried it in my Ruger Single Seven. When my 16-4 gets back from being rechambered to .327 Magnum I might give the .32 Auto a shot

The 32 acp does work in a single seven and is surprisingly accurate. It also seemed to have slightly more recoil and definitely more report than 32 s&w longs.

Yes, .32 ACP normally has higher muzzle energy.

.32 ACP rounds run 60-73 gr at 905-1050 fps for ~130 ft-lbs normal, more for "defense" loads. Buffalo Bore makes a "+P" round with a 75gr flat-nose lead bullet, fired at 1150fps, for a muzzle energy of 220 ft-lbs).

.32 S&W bullet weights are heavier (98-115 gr), and muzzle velocities lower (680-900 fps), for between 105 and 139 ft-lbs, with some (like two Buffalo Bore offerings) running 163-180 ft-lbs).