I'm often surprised that when guys suggest a barrel, that more of you do not suggest Kidd. Since getting the Kidd barrel on my 10-22, I generally suggest that as a good way to go to others when they ask what barrel to get for their 10-22. The one I have was bought on ebay a couple years ago now for $274.00 new. From the first group fired, I've been very happy with it:


It even shoots the cheap ammo well, which is a huge plus as far as I'm concerned:


What's not to like about a barrel like that? It definitely meets their accuracy guarantee, and my requirements.

I don't shoot my rimfire rifles or pistols much anymore, as I'm generally messing with my centerfire stuff after glass bedding and accurizing and working up loads for my new rifles. One thing I've been wanting to do is test some ammo I bought last year. A lot of this ammo was old manufacture match ammo that I got from a local store here. it seems like they always have match grade 22lr on the shelf. Ammo I've never seen before and wanted to see how it shot in this rifle. I finally got around to testing it and here are the results. I shot according to the Z challenge from day at the range, which is a fun shoot. First targets I'll show are the 20 round groups from "seasoning" the barrel for each type of ammo with the Z challenge targets:

First up is the SK match gold:



Second up is Wolf match target:



Third up is Wolf match extra:


And last up is some old Federal gold medal match that was made in 1992:



To say this barrel is not finicky is a gross understatement. One reason I always suggest Kidd, when guys ask what barrel they should look at buying. Now, according to the rules of the Z challenge day at the range shoot, you had to season the barrel with 20 rounds before you shoot the actual target for score. I found that to be a waste of half a box of ammo with this barrel. However, I have seen some rifles react to different brands of ammo, where you really needed to season the barrel with each different type of ammo. For some reason this one is not affected much by switching brands. Some of this ammo is lubed generously and some of this ammo was not lubed, or the lube was so old that it was like a powdered graphite or chalky consistency:


The old SK match gold was a good example of that^^^^ The other day I shot some of the Norma Tac 22 and it also seemed to shoot very well out of this barrel. I was wondering if any of you here have shot the Z challenge and if so, what did you use? If not, I'd suggest you try it. It's a lot of fun and it got me out shooting this 22lr again. Check it out, you might have some fun:


Also, let me know what you think of Kidd barrels or if you have a different brand that shoots better or just as good, post it up. Thanks for looking! The weather is slowly getting better, hopefully some of you are able to get out there and shoot. Give this Z challenge a try. If you go to their website, they have these targets you can print off. Good luck with it and if you do shoot it, post up results. This isn't a challenge or call out, just a good way to get out there and do some shooting. Take care guys..

On the build I just finished, I went with a Feddersen barrel, 16.5" bull, threaded. I'm sure it's more accurate than me but not sure how they compare to Kidd. They are less expensive for sure. Good shooting and good photos.

I bought one and put it on one of my 10/22's but have not really played with it yet. Just done enough to say the scope is on.

Volquartsen works for me

X2, I've found the difference between the Volquartsen winning or the Kidd winning depends on which ammo I'm shooting that day. Why are neither of these recommended as often? Because they cost more than the gun and most people are good enough with a barrel costing half that. How many plinkers really need a .44" group vs a .75" group or spend the money for match ammo? A Green Mountain barrel will do well enough with the bulk box these see and leave budget money for a trigger kit.

That being said, the Beyer factory taper barrel is my favorite. It weighs a fourth of the Kidd barrel while being nearly as accurate for the same price.

BSA- I’ll give this a go today.

Kidd receiver/bolt/trigger- but lilja barrel. Will report back

I have no buyers remorse whatsoever with my Kidd barrel & the all Kidd rifle it's attached to.

18" heavy.

I have two lightweights, highly recommend.

Mornin, BSA 1917!! Glad your on here! Watch your U tube channel all the time. You, Cyclops, & Insearch of precision Josh I think. Good info from guys who tell it like it is, no BS!!! That's hard to find nowadays !!! Keep it up. GWP. 🐾👣🐾👣👍🏻

My Green Mountain Sporter shoots about like that.

Ive got a KSA bull barrel on my build, cut down to 18” and threaded. Paid $275 for the complete donor rifle I pulled it from. Shoots SK Standard and Wolf in the 0.3”s and CCI standards at 1/2” consistently. Those are 5 shots at 50, I’ve yet to try 10 shot groups. I’m satisfied with my cheap build.

BSA…I’ve a full KIDD build I put together a while ago. You are correct about it not being terribly sensitive to ammo.

Mine shoots several varieties well and seems to love aguilla SV, which prompted me to acquire a gaggle of it back when it was about 225 a case. There will be the odd flyer with that ammo but the 8 or 9 out of 10 are usually nice and tight

I have a fair variety of rimfires to choose from and I can tell you the KIDD more often than not comes along.

It’s got a respectable round count and that’s going nowhere but up.it simply does not ever fail to feed fire or eject. Ever.

If lubed up and given a chance it will hang pretty damn well with some high falootin rifles.

It is without a doubt one of my favorite rimfires. A surgical brass spitting machine!

Crappy pic but….

Awesome Robert. You are a shooter my friend. I expect you'll do very well..

Oh, I'm not the guy on the youtube video I posted. He is the one that came up with the "Z challenge" shoot though. I watch him quite frequently. He keeps guys shooting with different shoots. He's always fun to watch. Sorry if there was any confusion on this guys.. I will agree with you on the no bs part though. Keeping it real my friend..

Very nice rifle buddy. Pretty sweet set up you got. I almost went that route, but built it on the cheap instead. I know you are also one that shoots a lot. I can't wait to see how that NF I sold you does on your rifle. Keep me posted my friend!!

All this talk of shooting 10-22's has peaked my interest in pulling mine back out. Built one from parts and put a Green Mountain fluted sporter barrel on it. That one loves Norma Tac 22's. Gave it to my son for him and kids to use.
The one I still have is one of the old stainless full stock models. Was not a very exceptional shooter until I rebuilt it. Used a Green Mountain heavy fluted barrel on this one and it really came alive. The barrel was one of Green Mountains "seconds" I bought around 2002 and it shoots very small groups with the old Golden Eagle Target. Paid a whopping $80 for the barrel. It does have a lot of Volquartsen parts in it.

I have never tried one. My one and only "custom" 10-22 barrel is a Green Mountain 20" sporter. A 2-7X Weaver rimfire scope at 50 yards. Only five shot groups though...

That's a damn good shooter Ed. I like the deluxe models. I had one in stainless just like yours, but one of my friends wanted it more than I did.

I went out again today and the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo won out over the rest. That ammo shoots very well for ammo that was made in 1992:


The sun was in my damn eyes. I'm thinking when I'm not straining to see the target, my times will go down by another 5 seconds:




I wish I could have bought another brick or 2 of this ammo:

I didn’t time myself, as I only had one mag, but I went as fast as I could. I learned a few things. TAC MATCH shoots poorly from this rifle, Prime shoots poorly from this rifle, and while I know wolf shoots well, the groups show that the challenge is harder than it seems, of I should take more time. I’ll also add the excuse of weather… it certainly was windy!

I’d only shot this 10/22 twice before, and it shot very well with CCI SV, and Wolf/SK.

I’d had a brick of Prime .22 I’ve had laying around for a few years and thought I’d work on getting rid of it. It never shot well from any rifle, I recall, but sheesh this was bad. I’m not sure what happened but the picture of the TAC MATCH is gone. I brought a box of UM22, but had to get home to start the corned beef.

Thanks for participating man. You are right, that Wolf match target ammo shoots a lot better than that prime stuff. I've never even see prime. You are right about shooting this Z challenge too. It's a little harder than you would think. When I shot it, I found that I was holding my breath for about 15 rounds of the shoot. By the time I was done shooting, I also noticed my rifle was way canted. Then I was paying too much attention to where my bullet was actually going, instead of moving to the next target. I know that slowed me down quite a bit. That is a big no no, when shooting a bowling pin match or golf ball shoot. You always want to just shoot the target and move on as quickly as possible. There is always the urge to see how you did or how your competitor is doing, especially in a head to head bowling pin shoot. I think there is a learning curve here and of course a strategy. From what I saw a month ago, the leader in this shoot was Don from RimfireSS. That guy smokes those targets with some incredible speed. I think he shot a .445" average group size in 34 seconds. He's fast! He's running a shillen barreled 10-22 with Eley Sabr ammo.




Semi Auto Class Rifle Ammo Smallest Group Largest Group Avg Group Size Time In Seconds Score Notes

DB -RimfireSS Ruger 10/22 ELEY SABR 0.346 0.638 0.445 34 68.06 1st Place RimfireSS

So the consensus is they are too expensive? I love that Ed posted pics of his Green Mountain barrel. I've seen some that shoot that well. Shot against guys with Green Mountain barrels that shot that well. Some don't and some are a gamble. The one I bought was just like Ed's barrel, except it was a horrible shooter. I mean 3/4" for 5 shots at 50 yards was the norm, with most ammo I tried. What I always heard about Kidd is it's pretty much guaranteed that it's going to shoot well. You never know with Green Mountain. From personal experience, I would not buy one again. That may just be me though, as I got burned once. The next one could shoot like Ed's rifle. Who knows?? What I do know is there are guys out there that search for the factory parts and they are very easy to sell. I ended up selling the factory barrel on this rifle for $125.00 or something like that and also sold the stock at the same time. Both parts together almost paid for the rifle. Or if I put that money towards the Kidd barrel, it would look like this: $274-$125= $149.00. The stock sold for $100.00 approx, so I put that towards the Magpul X22 hunter stock. That looked like this: $130.00-$100= $30.00. A Kidd barrel for $149.00 is well worth it in my mind. Especially after shooting the rifle for the first time. That was the icing on the cake. I've also heard Fedderson barrels are awesome too. Don't know what the Lilja or Shilen barrels run. All great options. I guess the deciding factor is ultimately your budget and needs. No one else running a Kidd barrel here? If you do, let us know how it shoots. Thanks!!

Have one with a Kidd ultra light weight and a Kidd barrel
I’m a hogue stock that’s my main squirrel rifle. Wish it could be threaded but… shoots great but honestly it’s hard for me to transition back and forth between semi auto and bolt guns shooting for groups. Takes a few mags to settle in behind it.

Found the tac match target

That is a sweet looking rifle man. I'm surprised that Lilja barrel isn't turning in some better groups. I always appreciate your honesty when posting results and also joining me in this shoot. I commend you man. I'm betting cert will probably shoot too, as I know he loves shooting these 22lr's and he has a very nice Kidd rifle to boot.

I was also somewhat surprised, as the only time I’d shot this prior it shot very well.

Next time I’ll give it a go with some different ammo, or just be a little more prepared.

Marketing is another issue. Kidd does not have retailers like Brownells or Midway to help with exposure. That would also add another layer of cost, pricing the barrel above Volquartsen.

Whatever it takes to keep prices lower I guess. I know guys know Kidd makes some damn good stuff. I've never been a huge fan of their 10-22 triggers. Partly due to the expense and they seem to be too light for my tastes. Great triggers, if you can afford them. But their barrels are damn good. I've heard that Tony Kidd checks every one of them to make sure they meet their accuracy guarantee. They are well known for their accuracy/precision and quality, so I don't know if they actually need extra marketing. In my way of thinking, they should sell themselves due to the reputation they have.

Hey Robert, if you need more mags, PM me. I ran into a good deal on a 3 pack that I can pass along to you.

Robert-

I've been a big Norma Tac fan for the last 2 years. I tried the Tac Match in a CZ 455 Varmint and a custom 10-22. The regular Norma Tac shot noticeably better in both at 50 yds. Go figure. Glad a bought 2 cases ( when Norma had the free shipping ) as the new buy out by Beretta ............... well, we'll just wait and see. This is a great thread!

Hey Razorhog, keep me posted on how your Fedderson barrel shoots on that 10-22. Even if it is just in a PM. I've heard they are tack drivers. I believe TWR here has one and likes it. I was just on ebay checking prices and they have a nice bead blasted stainless 20" Kidd barrel for $257.00 there. It's always interesting to compare different brands of barrels to see which ones shoot the best. Just like how we test different brands of ammo to see which ones work better. Kidd is one that is always on top, just like Eley and Lapua ammo is. From the looks of it, Ed has a Green Mountain that shoots lights out. I always like when he posts pics of his rifle and groups it shoots. When the weather warms up a bit, maybe some of these other guys will try that Z challenge? It's a fun shoot.

Bsa I was talking with Rham the other day about that z shoot and he was bringing me up to speed..sounds like a fun and challenging shoot

I’ll definitely give it a go once I can get back out to the range. I’m sure, like most of these shoots it sounds simple enough but will be plenty humbling once the lead starts flying!

Ed, that’s one helluva nice looking AND shooting 10/22 you got there

Sounds good man. I'm sure you will make it look easy. I just sent Rham 3 10-22 magazines I picked up for a good deal a couple weeks ago. I'm glad they went to someone I know will put them to good use!! That guy is a shooter for sure.

Anyone here shoot any of that older orange box Eley Club Xtra ammo? I have been eyeballing a brick of it for a month now. Wondering if I should pay their price ($75). Just don't know if it will be any better than the Tac22??? When I first stated shooting this Z challenge, I tried the tac 22. I don't think I posted this target, but did in the thread I started asking where you guys buy Norma Tac 22 ammo at.


That Tac 22 ammo shoots pretty good, considering it is fairly reasonable right now. I saw Scheels even has it on sale online, but I don't know if they have any in stock in Reno?? Anyway, if any of you 22 shooters have tried the Eley Club Xtra, let me know what you think of it. Thanks!!!

I'm surprised Exchipy has not played along in this Z challenge game. I was just over on Youtube watching some videos on 10-22's and am surprised at some of those guys saying you just can't make a 10-22 shoot for precision, or they can't be competitive. I'm baffled on some of their comments there. One channel is even called "precision rifle network". Having a name like that, you better damn well know what you are talking about. Right? Not so much. I have to laugh at some of those guys that really struggle there. They are ignorant as to what a good 10-22 can really do.

I was thinking about some things the other day when I was cleaning mine after I shot it. I pull the action out of the stock every time I clean it and that is after every time I shoot it. I don't get group shift and I don't use a torque wrench to tighten the 1 action screw. Once dialed in for the SK match gold ammo the other day, I have not touched the turrets on that Burris AR 556 rifle scope. Some of you know me well enough, that you know I glass bed everything though, and loctite everything that needs it. That is key to accuracy, even with a rimfire rifle. This action locks down into this stock, just like all of my other rifles do in their stocks. It's a mechanical thing and the bedding is always the foundation, and key to accuracy/precision, to any shooting system. I just watched a video where a guy pulled off the old stock and put it in a nice new KRG stock and the groups went to hell and he's wondering wth happened. Process of elimination says, if you change one thing and groups suck, what you changed needs to be modified or looked at: Hence, properly glass bed the stock, the action is probably in a bind, but a lot of guys' first inclination is the torque on the action screw is not right. So they mess with torque. Well, let me tell you guys, if it's that torque sensitive that it's going to throw off your accuracy, it needs to be glass bedded. That should not be hard to understand, right??

Then there is the thought that it absolutely needs to be freefloated. Well, lets think about this for a bit. You have a receiver with one action screw and I always prefer "two points of contact" when I bed my rifles. The stock I use is a Magpul Hunter X-22 and it comes with barrel shims, just so you can adjust barrel to stock tension. There is a set screw on the underside of the stock that is very easy to adjust shim tension. It is suggested that you play with the tension to see what your rifle likes. You can also completely remove the shim to allow for a freefloat on the barrel. What worked for my particular rifle was a slight tension on that shim. That is a set and forget feature as far as I'm concerned. Find what your rifle likes and leave it there.

What else helps these little 10-22's shoot better? We all know an upgraded trigger works wonders for these rifles. I always choose to go cheap if at all possible, so I buy the Volquartsen target hammer kit off of ebay and also the Volquartsen trigger. These can be bought as a kit and easily installed. Generally costing about $60.00, but well worth the expense and effort. A huge upgrade, if you will.

How many of you guys have modified your bolts on these rifles to get them to shoot tighter groups or to function smoother? Optimized the headspace? That helps quite a bit in my experience. You also modify the rear of the bolt to help with function. Aftermarket companies that sell these bolts radius the rear of the bolt, so it runs smoother. Also polishing it out will allow for quicker cycling of the action, hence faster follow up shots. I also polish out the inside of the receiver, so the bolt feels like it runs on ball bearings. I do that for some of my speed shoots, that require me to get on target fast and keep pulling the trigger. Like in my clubs golf ball matches.

What else speeds up the function of these rifles? Another mod is the auto bolt release mod. Done by everyone in my club and it only takes 10 seconds with the right tool. You spend more time pulling the part out of the trigger group than the time it actually takes to modify it:


I can go on and on about these 10-22 mods, but don't want to bore you guys. Just wanted to say hey, you can make a 10-22 shoot competitively and precisely. As you know, some take more work than others. But most can be made to be phenomenal shooters. I'm glad you guys are enjoying this thread and have made your own contributions to it!!!

Nice write up BSA.
I never had much luck with pressure points in a stock over free floating.
Since Ruger only uses on action screw, then when I installed a heavy barrel I used an aluminum spacer
that the barrel chamber sits on. You didn't say where the shims are located and I assumed towards the end of the forearm.
Is that a bad assumption? If they put the shims and tension screw back at the chamber end that would be awesome.
$60 for a Volquartsen sear and trigger? Wow, I've been out of the loop for a long time. Back what now must be quite a few
years I bought 10 Volquartsen sears for under $100 from Volquartsen. Can't remember what the trigger price was.
Changing out the sear really makes a difference in trigger pull on the 10/22. I never thought the trigger change made much
difference. I did like the idea of the over travel screw in the Volquartsen trigger.
I really like the looks of your Magpul Hunter stock and really like EdM's checkered walnut stock. I have a weakness for walnut.
Maybe this week the weather will be nice enough shoot some targets with the 10/22 and add a second good shooting Green Mountain Barrel
to the thread.

Sounds awesome buddy! I'd love to see it. I am like you and love those deluxe walnut stocks too. The last one I had, I sold to a good buddy of mine and it shot lights out after a little bit of work. Had to find the right ammo that it liked though. Surprisingly enough it shot the Eley target ammo the best out of a lot that I tested in it. At the time, it was about $7/box. That rifle is a sleeper because it has the original barrel on it and guys don't expect it to shoot that well. The deluxe walnut stock I found for that rifle is a beauty too.

To answer your question on the location of the barrel shim that adds tension, I believe I posted a pic in the other thread that you commented on. You may not have noticed it, so here it is again:


The shim is there a few inches back from the tip of the forend. While I did not know if I'd like that Magpul stock when I first got it, it has grown on me and I do like it. It did need the extra support of the bedding, though for my needs. I'm pretty picky about how my rifles shoot and mods like that are simple, yet very effective.

Those guys at Magpul are ingenious suckers!! I use a lot of their products on my AR's. Oddly enough, I think my only gripe about it is it is very lightweight. Funny huh? I built this rifle to compete in some speed/precision shoots, such as my clubs golf ball matches. But to be honest, my A17 smokes it. The 10/22 is a contender in my clubs head to head KYL shoots though. Because it is so precise. It makes short work of even the 1/4" target in the KYL shoot.

As for how you approached your action, that is a great solution as well. Mechanically speaking. Keeping in mind, this is all mechanical in relation to accuracy/precision. Sounds like you may have done something similar to what Dwayne did. You can also glass bed under the chamber area and where the action screw goes into the receiver. Glass bed about 4" under that area and under the chamber area and be good to go. Freefloat the rest of the barrel. Key to accuracy is rigidity and a stress free receiver. What you did is just that, from the sounds of it.

Now, after that, I would not stop there. Another way to milk the last bit of precision out of a 10-22 is to make sure it headspaces right. That means you need to surface grind the face of the bolt. Or use a similar method to get the headspace down to an appropriate measurement. This helps to fully support the 22lr case head and will make it shoot more precisely. I run the headspace on my bolts around .043"-.045". And I check that the bolt face hits squarely on the breech face of the barrel. That is very important! On a factory Ruger 10-22, you will find they range quite a bit. Some are more sloppy than others. Something a lot of guys do not think about. They want to focus on the more common issues. But tit for tat, that modification will net some of the best accuracy gains IMHO..

I agree 100% with you on bedding, but I would use a pillar also as that will keep the torque perfect. I know from experience the stock material, be it wood, synthetic, or carbon fiber has a degree of give. A pillar will eliminate that completely since the action and floor metal tighten the pillar and not the bedding. Just our observation from building walnut stocks with aluminum chassis. Accurate Innovations Just something to consider.
Headspacing, boy are you ever correct on that and especially when dealing with rimfires. The companies that build rimfires, there is an exception, Cooper would be one, are not to picky on the headspacing of a rimfire. If the barrel is pinned or pulled in like Ruger's, the headspacing will vary a lot. Get a "no go" head space gauge and stick in you bolt action rifle that has the barrel pinned. Most of the time the bolt will close on the "no go" gauge. I found that out the hard way. Had a nice Rem. 541 T completely factory stock blow a round which took out the extractor spring, the extractor, and the magazine. The round was a standard velocity round. I called Brian Voelker who has done a lot of work for me and whined to him about it. He laughed and then told me about factory rimfire rifles have head space all over the place. I checked mine before I sent it off to him and sure enough, the bolt would close completely without resistance on a "no go" gauge.
Several of my rimfire rifles will allow the bolt to close on the "no go" gauge, but I haven't had any issues yet.
In a bolt gun, have the barrel rechambered to a tighter and shorter chamber, recrowned, and then have the barrel and receiver threaded and watch that rifle come alive.
Recutting/resurfacing the bolt face on a semi auto/10/22 would an enormous set in the right direction in the accuracy department as you said. Polishing the bolt and the receiver would help also and I think you mentioned that. Boy, if you could thread the receiver and barrel on the 10/22 I can only see leaps and bounds in the accuracy department.

All good stuff man. The only thing I can comment directly about this 10-22 and the bedding I did, is it is very solid. Very rigid. Take another look at this picture:


The tell tale sign that it doesn't need a pillar is the indention of where the bottom of the barrel retainer/V-block sits in the quick steel. Trust me, there is plenty of support there. Nothing gives on that rifle when you tighten the action screw down. You would strip the action screw out with over torque and it would still not flex there. It's all mechanical man. That's the way I look at things. Again, the surefire way to tell is there is no group shift when putting the rifle back in the stock. That is very apparent when looking at the target pics I posted. These are simple methods I use. Guys can definitely use their own methods and I appreciate the input, but until someone can post proof that their rifles out perform mine, I'll keep doing things my way. I look forward to seeing how your rifle shoots my friend. I bore of watching youtube because 99% of those rifles shoot like schidt..

I have a guy that I see at the local, small, gunshow that has a pretty good pile of "vintage" match ammo but all of the bullets are bone dry, zero lube, I assume due to vintage. Thoughts?

I’ve seen that Ed..sometimes it’s just a dry white flaky residue that’s left. If the prices aren’t horrid you’d likely find me buying several types up from your guy to give it a go just for fun

I'm with you Cert. I did not notice any weird/unusual affect of the dried out lube on the old SK match gold ammo I bought. I don't know how old the stuff is. Maybe early 90's?


I just don't know. Since this ammo was in plastic, I could not open it in the store and inspect it before I bought it. The ammo that I keep wanting to go back and buy still has good lube on it. And there is almost 2 bricks of it.


I was talking to a buddy of mine and asked what he thought of the Eley club Xtra, as shown above. I told him it was $7.95/box and he said he would not buy it. The whole time I'm thinking it's match ammo and I've paid much more for match ammo than that. He's one that does not like buying used rifles too, so there's that. He's picky, so maybe not the best person to ask advice on this sort of thing. He's the same guy that will pay $135/brick of primers and $65/lb of H4350 though. I'll probably go and buy that ammo, as I'm interested to see how it shoots in this rifle and maybe even some of my target rifles. My old Winchester model 52 needs to be dusted off!!!

Anyone tried the Little Crow Gunworks GRX recoil lug in their 10-22?

I've heard of it and watched a video about them, when they came out. Looked pretty interesting. I don't really see a need, but interesting nonetheless..

My Kidd has been a lot of fun for sure. Thinking pretty seriously about a lightweight build using a Kidd barrel. Not sure if it would
Get carried over the 452s though in the field.

My Kidd has also proven to not be too particular about ammo. Tac-22 shoots great for budget/plinking. SK standard+ shoots a tad better, and Center X the best. Haven’t ran any Eley through it yet, but have several boxes to try.

Nice rifle Holston. Keep us posted. Thanks!