Hello,

A friend and I were discussing this.

I say the .22 Long Rifle will kill humanely long past the range at which it can be placed accurately. I claim 100 yards as I practice that range every day, and will move back to 50 yards if I have an off day in which I cannot land 5/5 on a chipmunk silhouette's vitals at 100 yards.

He says 50 yards is the longest humane distance for the .22LR.

I counter by saying it's acting as a heavy .22 Short at 100yds (about 960fps with 40gns or so), and .22 Short takes small game all the time.

Given the ability to place your shots accurately, how far to you believe the .22LR is a humane killer?

Thanks,

Josh

humane killer on what?

i shot a rabbit a few weeks ago at a lasered 94 yards with my 22lr and it wouldn't have been deader at point blank range.

i think accuracy becomes the issue before energy/velocity does though.

i've got a leupold with a turret coming for my 22lr. assuming the accuracy holds i don't think i'll blink at taking a 150 yard poke on an animal that a 22 is appropriate for.

If you place the shot well at 100 yards the 22 L.R. is a killer on most animals.. I would even suggest about 200 yards for some animals like rabbits and as a matter of fact I have killed a number of Javalinas at 150 and 200 yards with std hollow points and a few coyotes..I have killed deer in the more open country on my dads ranch in old Mexico at up to about 75 or 100 yards on a few ocassions and with shoulder shots. They will run up to a 100 yards in some cases and in others they just jump and continue to feed until they tip over. It is the standard deer rifle for the local Mexicans in Mexico along the Texas border around Boquillas, Santa Helena, Ojinago and the country ajacent to the Big Bend of Texas. Its all they have or can afford.

Never underestimate a 22 L. R. In the hands of a good shot it will deliver. It certainly isn't the best caliber around for the big stuff, but will work in a pinch..

Here in Alabama, poachers take deer at 100 yards all the time. The report is quiet enough that most people can't detect direction 1/2 mile or so, and usually the poachers are spotlighting so they just aim for the eyes. The game wardens catch a few every year, but there are so many that it is still fairly common.

So is the 22lr enough to be humane at 100 yards. YES.

Sure, if you're willing to adapt the ethical standards of a poacher.

I was not advocating poaching, or their techniques, merely using the facts of their being able to kill a white tail sized animal from 100 yards or more. The OP wanted to know if it is humane to use that ammo for hunting, i.e., can you cleanly kill with it. My answer / opinion is yes, if you are good enough to execute the shot.

To put it into perspective, I had a 20 cal Benjamin air rifle that launched a 14gr pellet at maybe 800 fps, for a whopping 20 ft-lbs of energy. It was a good rabbit killer out to about 30 yards.

The 22lr has lethality at 300+ yards, but it's impossible to shoot with any precision at those distances. A shooter on the 'Hide shot up a frozen turkey wrapped in denim at 300 yards and had complete penetration. Was looking for the thread, but don't see it just now.

Here's a report on the 22 at long range:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1116245&page=1

An interesting read:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1947307&page=1

FWIW, I've taken groundhogs at 150 to 175 yards (yes, lasered with a Leica LRF 1200 Scan) with a .22LR.

I'd want to be a good bit further out than that if someone who could shoot well was launching one at me.

If Shane were doing the shooting, I'm thinking from MT to NC would be just about close enough, thank you.

I have shot kangaroos out to 100 yards with my 22 stirling. Have even heard of it killing buffalo. Not that I think thats smart. But its a great little round.

My CZ 452 can head shoot sage rats and chipmonks at 125 yds all day long...I don't push it beyond that...

Joshua_M_Smith: I shoot 4,000+ rounds of L.R. ammunition every year on a variety of Varmints but mainly Ground Squirrels.
I use "lethal" hollow-points that are chosen for lethality and accuracy for each of my many 22 rimfire Rifles and psitols.
Just yesterday I had my Remington 40X (in caliber 22 L.R.) out on a late season Gopher Safari and I killed (DRT!) many Ground Squirrels out at the 110 to 120 yard mark!
I have a Nikon Monarch variable 4x16.5 scope on this Rifle and its trigger is LIGHT and crisp - lethality has much to do with accuracy AND a lethal bullet!
Even under 75 yards one of the "newbies" along on this 4 man Safari who was using CCI Blazer ammo - his hits at 50 yards were often not of the quick kill variety!
I was happy when his scope/mount went askew and he lost the ability to hit Ground Squirrels even at 25 yards.
I casually inferred he would do better and be welcome back NEXT year with hollow-point ammunition and a "quality" scope on his 10/22.
22 Long Rifle ammo WILL kill Varmints at ranges much beyond 110 - 120 yards but the "accuracy" at those longer ranges makes "reliable" (humane!) kills on Varmints more difficult!
And by loss of accuracy I mean that wind drift is greatly accelerated and more profound along with the greater bullet drop making hits in vitals more difficult out past 110 - 120 yards.
So to directly answer YOUR vague question I will relay I am confident enough in the 22 L.R. from one of my top quality 22's to be "humane" out to 110 - 120 yards on Ground Squirrels!
Good question you pose even though it needs some more clarification on "what" Varmints you are intending to humanely Hunt.
Long live the 22 L.R.!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Was shooting at this steel one day at 375 yards with the 22 rifle, and 44 Mag. 5mph full value wind made it tough, but the bullets that hit were hitting hard enough to liquify. I wouldn't want to catch one at that distance.

Shane,
375 yds with a 22??
That is cool!


For myself, the farthest out I have shot things(feral cats, chucks, crows, whatnot) with my 22 LR(Kimber HS) using my favorite varmint load(Velocitors) has been right around 185 yards, using a 100 yard zero.
Generally speaking, however, I don't shoot varmints much farther than 150 yards with that same rig.
As far as lethality is concerned, that 185 yard shot was on a rock chuck, which are pretty good size critters.
The velocitor did him in right quick.

As part of an experiment, one year I decided to see how far the .22 Long Rifle worked on prairie dogs. My longest kill was 275 yards (lasered) and the dog was down and dead.

Obviously shot placement is a little iffy that far out, but with a really accurate .22, and ammo like Winchester Power Points, 200+ is pretty doable on a calm day.

As several people have already pointed out, the lethality of the .22 LR outruns how far accurate shooting can be done.

Sounds like fun,John.
Didn't you write an article about that experience for Rifle some years ago?

I know three people that have killed black bears with the 22 long rifle

My son-in-law cut a gopher in half at 40+ yards with a Hi-Vel Winchester HP on Saturday. WAY powerful enough at that range. I shot a group of three at 100 yards with Federal Bulk Standard velocity that measured 1-1/16". Betting that I could chest shoot a gopher at 100 yards with my CZ453 with a head hold and that ammo. Small game - no problem.

Back, way back, in my younger years we were having issues with deer in the garden. I shot a deer in the shoulder at about 75 yards and that stinking thing died deader than a door know right on top of the tomatoes.....was I ever in trouble. I don't think a lot of people give the .22 the credit it deserves.

I'd have to agree with Mule Deer that the effectivness of the .22 LR far exceeds the distance one can "normally" hit with it.

In my youth (back when dinosaurs ruled the earth) I used to have a .22 single shot rifle practically welded to my hand at all times. Even with open sights, you get pretty good when you are burning 500 rounds a week at targets of various sizes and distances.

In those days any armadillo or rabbit that showed it's self at less than 100 yards was finished and one sitting at 175-200 yards was in a heap of trouble. They all seemed to die quite well. There wasn't the "explosive" kills you get at 25-50 yards, but they all died within a few yards after taking a hit.

The most memorable kill shot was on a mallard drake that chose to stop at our cattle tank. I knew the shot was a LONG ways out there, but when I'd crested the hill and foolishly skylighted myself......two duck flushed.....leaving three very nervous birds on the water. I laid prone and tried to figure the distance and wind (thank goodness there wasn't much of that). I waited until two of the ducks lined up and fired at the farther of the two (also looked "higher" from my hilltop sniper's nest....one on top of the other). The bullet seemed to take a while to reach the target and I'd raised my head to get a better look when two of the ducks flushed and the third began flopping on the water.....then the sharp sound of the "thwaaak" reached me.

I later stepped off the distance at just over 260 yards. I'd aimed at the "higher" duck, but misjudged the distance and drop.....and nailed the "lower" bird. It wasn't a clean kill (I had to finish him once I was closer) as I had hit him in the wing, not the body, but even at that distance the little .22 Short (yes, it was a Short, not a LR) had completely penetrated and broke what I thought was a pretty big bone (for a .22 Short) on the way through. I was pretty proud!!

I also.....errr, I heard rumors....not that I'd do any such thing.....that a LOT of deer were taken at 50-75 yards with a .22 LR through the chest or head.

The real problem is the rainbow trajectory at more than 100 yards and the extreem wind deflection at distance with the .22 LR. It makes hitting the target kind of "iffy", but if the shot is true, the little LR has plenty of "omph" to do the job when it gets there.....even on animals of fair size. Doesn't make it truely "ethical" on game animals, but it will work.

I like the 'longer' ranges even MORE.

The .22 bullet then tends NOT to overpenetrate so much ...

That there is funny, right there! Specially on cape buff!

The poaching aspect has already been gone over but I�ll add another anecdote.

Back around 1979 I �knew a guy� who was a regular poacher in central Florida. He used a single shot .22 for deer, hogs and alligators. Used to go trespass on several of the large cattle ranches in the area to do his poaching. This meeting was the start of the great barefoot bathing suited (blue bathing suit interestingly enough) alligator and hog hunt, wherein a gator wounded by a .22 was located in a canal by feeling along with the bare foot � several times.

Anyway, after having met him I saw him again a few months later and he showed me his new to him M700 in 7mm RM. I asked him why he had bought such a powerful and loud firearm. His reply, and he was quite serious, was that when sniping deer from the fringes of a pasture sometimes he couldn�t get any closer than about 120 yards and the open sighted .22 he used sometimes just �wasn�t enough� to do the job. Apparently he was also pleased with the result on alligators as instead of missing the little pea brain by a half inch and having to drag a canal bottom by feel, the 7mm �took off the whole top of their head�.


This is all true, btw.

It's already been said, but you should only shoot as far as you can call your shots. Back when I was shooting all the time, I could hit the vitals of a rabbit off hand every time out to about 50-60 yards. When I missed the mark a little (which is easy to do on a small target), I found that anything past about 75 yards resulted in wounded instead of quickly dispatched bunnies - my .22's started to lose steam. With a good rest, I would say about 125 yards was my max range. I've hit p-dogs at over 300 yards only to leave them with enough life to run back in their holes. I stopped that practice quick - I hated that.

And for what it's worth, I would guess for deer or bear or whatever that was killed by whomever with a .22 at over 100 yards, there was also a wounded deer or bear that could not be recovered and was left to die or blind for the rest of its days. We don't hear as much about those.

When I was a kid, I knew a couple of brothers from a badly inbred VT family in the Chelsea area who used to shoot at each other with the 22 rifles that they got for Christmas 1 year. Once in awhile 1 of them would get hit, but thankfully (I guess), neither of them was killed when I knew them. When I got older, I kinda thought that their game of shooting at each other was proof of Darwin's theory working in mysterious ways, since the gene pool would have been improved if they had been killed and, therefore, unable to reproduce and further pollute the gene pool. IIRC, they claimed to regularly have intercourse with their sister, who looked exactly like them, just with different plumbing and longer hair. Scary.

Jeff

Would have been just as well off NOT knowing all that, Jeff. Have investigated too much of that stuff in my life.

If that family had been deer, the herd manager would have culled them for the well being of the herd as a whole. 'Know what I mean?

EDIT: I specifically remember 1 of the brothers showing me where he had removed a bullet from his left deltoid muscle with a pocket knife. When I saw the wound it was pretty much healed, but he had stitched it up with black braided fish line and didn't remove the stitches before the wound healed over them. I guess that the fish line just added some interesting texture to the lumpy keloid scar. A physician would have gotten a D+ for the work, but it was functional and pretty good work for a kid who probably dropped out of school in the 4th or 5th grade.

Jeff

I found that a sad but disturbing story ... you don't make-up stuff like that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also knew a couple brothers, not inbred (just crazy). They WERE from a 'dysfunctional' family, to say the least.

We used to go out and shoot our .22's together, and these guys would frequently shoot at something real close by each other, or YOU, just for the fun of it and the SUPRISE.

I soon learned to always hang-back and keep an eye on both of 'em when carrying our guns.

One day I rode out to their farm on my bicycle, and their Mom said they were out down by the river somewhere. I walked across the pasture and down by a few the trees that were along the river - and I kept holler'n for them ... but they seemed to be nowhere around.

I was ready to give up and go back home, when I heard a loud voice screaming "LOOK OUT!" ... In the same 'second' followed by a "THUD" - As a big HAMMER lay at my feet.

I was still not aware of 'what' had just happened - when I heard hysterical laughter far above me.

Seemingly, 100's of feet above me were my two friends, the brothers. They were building a tree fort or something Way Way up there in the top of the tree, looking down and laughing at me. I wondered how they even got up there, they were too high up for any ladder, and there were not even any branches until close to the top ... Not real sure, that they were actually even human.

I looked down at the Hammer that barely missed my head by an 'inch', and I looked back up at them, I didn't cuss them out or anything ... Just shook my head and went home.

Anyone have any experience with the CCI small game bullet with the flat tip? I'm wondering if they are better killers than the round nose while penetrating better than the hollow point.

Hello,

The hollowpoint well penetrate just fine. Its penetration is roughly equivalent to a .380acp HP fired from a pistol.

The SMG with its .125" (IIRC) meplate will kill, but not ruin as much meat as may the HP.

Both will go through-and-through a soft target; I've seen this on both squirrels and raccoons.

The hollowpoints kill decidedly faster, especially on larger critters. They just do more damage before they exit.

Josh

Hollow points won't penetrate the cervical vertebrae of hogs and you can take that to the bank. Solids will do a thru and thru.

Dan,
How high is your count on hogs now? In one of your earlier post I think you were in the high sixties.

100 yards on groundhogs is no problem at all for the .22 lr.
I have shot lots of them at 100-125 yards, taking head shots only and it anchors them just fine.
I think the effective range is more a function of shooter skill and the accuracy potential of the individual firearm than of the cartridge itself.
Eric

I took a starling at 212yds on a called shot with my buckmark. i started shooting high and hit it on the 5th or 6th shot. It was 80% luck, but still dang funny to see my buddies when that bird went to pieces....lol. I know I could not do it again on purpose, but it sure as heck was dead.

True story...

When I was stationed out at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma in 1959, I went jack-rabbit hunting just about every Saturday & Sunday.

I took a long shot, using a fence post as a "rest" and killed a jack-rabbit at 200+ yards with a very lucky shot which hit the "jack" in the back of the head as he sat at the top of a rise in a pasture. I held about 2 to 2� feet over his head... and that single 40 gr. .22 rimfire hollow-point out of my Marlin 39A "Mountie" sent him azz-over-appetite. He was stone-dead when he hit the ground beyond where he was sitting.

I have always said that that ugly, long-eared "jack" was the "UNLUCKIEST JACK-RABBIT IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA THAT DAY... OR EVEN THAT YEAR!!!"


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Interesting to hear about humanly killing a deer or bear with a .22. What about that other 98% that were hit and got away? Pretty stupid.

Sir,

With regards to deer,

If they are hit with 40g solids in the right place(neck veribrae ro Brain) 100% of them DIE -right there.

It's all a matter of getting close(preferably 50 yards or less) and putting the bullet PRECISELY where it needs to go.

Such shooting is not for pikers who can barely hit the heart lung area of an animal at 100 yards.

The round is up to the job if the Marksman can make the shot.

My aunt shot a coyote with a 10/22 at a claimed 150yds. Hit that dog right in the top of the head and dropped him. My uncle was with her and at the time, he was working for the Dept of Agriculture, trapping and hunting predators on ranches (40+ hrs a week)...anything that ate cows, sheep, or whatever so I trust his judgement on the distance.

Intersting job he had back then. He got to do the unusal bear, lion, coyote type hunting (and a good bit of hog hunting thrown in too); but the weirdest one was at a trout pond where a black bear was tearing into the fish food and eating it. Had to trap that sucker and move him.