All,

At our new camp I have space to shoot a .22 safely but I have neighbors that I really don't want to bother (well, except for sneaking out and defacing their Obama bumper sticker ) . I have not looked seriously into a suppressor as the thought of dealing with the bureaucracy in Md then taking the pistol or rifle to WV is just more than I care to deal with. Instead I did some shooting out there with both .22 CB and the Aquila Super Colibri out of my CZ452FS and I think those will be fine so I suspect a .22 short will work fine noise-wise and for punching some paper.

Since it's not much fun to single load I said to myself "self, here's a chance to have some fun with some simple gunsmithing on that old 10/22". Indeed, my first rifle ever is a 10/22 I bought at K-Mart for $89 in 1981 and I haven't shot it in a long time. So, poking around ye-olde interweb I see Volquartson has a conversion kit for the 10/22 (https://www.volquartsen.com/products/155-22-short-kit-for-10-22) that may fill the bill.

Next question - does anyone make a barrel for the 10/22 that is actually chambered for the Short? I suspect that shooting a lot of them from a LR chambered barrel would result in a chamber ring that might be tough to clean.

What trigger kit does someone recommend. I can certainly go with Volquartson for this too if folks have good experience with them.

Thoughts? Experiences? Cautions?

Allen

sounds like a cool project, and a good bit of fun...i would not worry about buildup in the LR chamber... particularly if you are only going to use shorts...

do you have a source for standard velocity shorts??? high velocity shorts actually have a bit of crack to them...

i can find either cb caps or high vel. shorts, but haven't seen a standard velocity short for sale in years...

has a pup found it's way home with you yet???

Allen,
I just went through the same thought/testing process and arrived at the suppressor solution. Since you have concluded that the suppressor isn't an option, the Short/CB's seem to be in order.

After using the Shorts and the CB's to compare against standard velocity LR's, I came to the conclusion that inside of 25 yards the Hi Vel Short HP's are almost as deadly as the Standard Velocity LR's, and much quieter from a rifle. Absolutely no difference IRT noise between the Shorts, CB's and LR's out of any handgun, revolver or semi auto, at least none that I could discern, and the semi auto pistol would only feed one at a time with many stoppages.

I found that the Hi Velocity Short HP's, hit to the same POI at 25 yards as the SV Long Rifles. The CB's hit about 1.5" lower than the SV LR's.

This was all out of a bolt action rifle-actually three bolt actions, a Savage, a Marlin and a Winchester. Shorts out of a semi auto I can't attest to, but unless you're using rifle/pistol specifically chambered for shorts, I think feeding problems would occur just as I experienced in the semi auto handgun.

After all of this, I came to the conclusion that a suppressor was the way to go, and so purchased a Gem Tech. I bought a Savage Mk IIFV, and a Tactical Solutions Pac Lite barrel for both my 10/22 and my Ruger Mk II. Being able to use LR ammo out to 75 yards with the can is a definite advantage to using shorts. You might want to rethink the suppressor angle, although MD is rather different than TN on approving them.

Just a thought here, you could also go with a Green Mountain 10/22 barrel twisted 1/9, and shoot the Aguila 60gr subsonic ammo. All the quiet, with a lot more smack.

Is anyone making a 26-in. aftermarket bbl for 10-22s these days? one of those with a CCI Subsonics or the Aguila SSS would be pretty low noise. CB Longs would be less than a finger snap.

They already make suitable choices in lever actions and pump actions. They are older models but will cycle these rounds perfectly. I don't see why you would spend as much on a conversion kit as a rifle that does it better than your converted rifle will. Often with these lowered power rounds a semiauto that cycles will be too loud at the ejection port. Or won't cycle reliably enough. You are going to want the semiauto functionality because they are not as terminally effective as their faster speed brothers and sisters.

Check the used racks...

Want "quieter than an airgun"....try a CZ 452 Ultra Lux with the 28" barrel and Aguila SubSonic ammo. You can fire it indoors without hearing protection on. Accuracy is less than an inch at 50 yards.

Another rifle that feeds Shorts, has a long barrel and is extremely accurate with them is the Marlin 39A-Golden. 24" barrel and holds an afternoon of Shorts. One of those was my first rifle and another gun one doesn't need hearing protectors with or just a set of foam plugs...

Bob

My thoughts exactly!

I shoot a lot of CB's, through my Cooper and my Rem 580. I am tired of changing the scope back and forth so I have been on the hunt for a Marlin 39A dedicated to CB's.

Thanks folks - The use of the rifle will really be for plinking at paper and swingers as I usually take the CZ out there and have a handgun for bigger stuff so terminal performance isn't a big concern.

I've not written off the suppresor totally but if I'm going to go to that effort I think it will be for either my Ruger MK II or I'll buy a Mk III for it to go on. I've shot a couple suppressed rifles before and they are no doubt fun.

I have not shot any shorts, just the CB's and Super Colibri but I do have a couple boxes of the SSS and pickin up a 1-9 twist would be worth it for that. I'll check the noise signature next time I'm out. Having shot them a few times a new barrel is key to get any accuracy out of them for sure.

I do have an old Remington 550-1 that can shoot all three .22 varieties but it was my Grandfather's and I am loath to alter it from it's very original condition as I want to put a scope on the rifle (or perhaps a red dot). Sure I could go buy another but I enjoy building stuff like I enjoy tying my own flies.

As far as feeding shorts the Volquartson kit comes with a new magazine designed to feed them so no fears there. I have no idea if it will also feed CB's or if the Super Colibri has enough poop to cycle the action.

CCI CB Longs. Shoot tree rats with them in my CZ and Win 67 and the next door neighbors that were grilling out did not even hear it. Way cool.

I'll have to look for some. I wasn't even aware they made a CB long.

I guarantee you will like them.

Pugs, I had a chat with a Volquartsen rep at the Orlando Shot Show couple years back and he raised the issue of function spontaneously. It seems there have been some issues with that kit doing the cycle reliably. His words, not mine. Never saw a 10/22 so modified and pass it along FWIW.

On a brighter note, the Browning patent auto chambered in shorts will feed all such ammo reliably and shoot accurately in my experience. This includes HV, SV and CB ammo.

The issue of noise reduces to expansion ratio. In plain terms a barrel of 20" will give you a very mild 'pop' and one of 24" or greater is sufficiently quiet that it is functionally silent, this with CB shorts and perhaps SV/Match ammo though I've not tried any of that.

As to power level, you don't need to shoot the Aguila SSS and I'd recommend against setting up to do that. It's a LR dimensioned round, not a "short". Feed and function are a certain problem there unless you're going to dedicate the gun solely to that round.

Shorts in a short chamber are accurate and lethal. Period. Been shooting hogs for about 4 years with a T/C Carbine so chambered with CB shorts. One out of 80+ required a second shot. The gun has a Millett SP-1 mounted and runs about 3/4" at 50 yards off a rest. 1/2" with a conventional scope. With the barrel at 20" I get the "pop" but it does not startle the hogs and I frequently bag more than one without taking another step.

Lastly, you might take a simpler path and pick up a used gun that shoots all .22 ammo and have the barrel set back to achieve a short chamber. You've lots of options to contemplate but truthfully I think the Volquartsen mod will be the least satisfactory solution as you'll wind up replacing guts and the barrel before it's over. Used is cheaper, even if you set the barrel back.

Thanks much and I had hoped you'd weigh in with your hog-killing machine

Lots of good stuff to contemplate guys. I won't have much chance to take this project on until late winter since we're eyeballs deep in hunting season now so just gathering data and thinking forward.

Allen

GREAT THREAD and subject!

For RF ammo of all kinds, CCI offers MOST choices;

including their CB Shorts, CB Longs, .22 Short Target, .22 Short HV and .22 Short HV-HP.

For those unaware, the .22 Short was the first commercially offered [ever] "cartridge" in the USA, and proceeded the Long, Long Rifle, .22 Auto, and of course the .22 WMF or .22 WRF, TOO!!

The basic .22 Short is built around a 29grn lead bullet, except for the HiVel loads that have a copper or brass 'wash.' The CCI HV HP uses a 27grn pill.

But more important than that IMO, is that CCI CB's are both rated with their 29 grain bullets at @727fps MV, but don't overlook the .22 Short Target load! Also with a 29grn boolit.

It is rated at 810fps! With just a little more ummph than the CB's.

Remington used have a .22 CeeBee load they discontinued 4-5-6 years ago ..... then came our with a CB load with a 33grain projectile. Wish I knew more about it than all I just wrote.

My interest in the tiny .22's (Shorts or LR's) is to build something similar to that "Short" Contender, but in a pistol perhaps even smaller than the Keystone Arms "Chipmunk" handguns they've created for rimfire handgun silhouette shooters or dedicated tree-rat hunters (who prefer HG's). A backpacking .22Short "shortie" would be strictly for survival and gathering camp meat (bunnies, squirrels, grouse, etc).

Keystone Arms makes the dimenuitive "Crickett" rifles, and bought out the company (main competitor) who made the Chipmunk rifle! Since then a singleshot bolt-action .22LR pistol is offerred, called the 'Chipmunk!' an interiesting piece!

For those rimfire purists really dedicated to exploiting the rimfires, Dr. Marc White (Pelham, Alabama) who started and used to own Sound Technologies, has written extensively on specialized .22rf rounds, even the Aquila SSS 60grainer.

Comment was made that round fits Long Rifle dimensions - which is true.

Overall that cartridge is the same length, diameter as a long rifle, but is made from a Short case with and exxtra-long 60grain bullet vs the usual 40grainer LR bullet. Also, there was a time Dr. White found that quality assurance at the Aquila plant was sporadic - regarding acceptable consistent velocity. Maybe that has since improved.

Dr White wrote a book for modifying the M10/22, including what is required to silence one (informational purposes ONLY - of course!), as well as making "pocket rifles" out of the Ruger M10/22 (something White espouses) and has built and sold many copies of, mostly for LEO's and dispatching wounded deer in suburbs or vicious dogs! Featured ammo is USUALLY the Aquila .22 SSS round, best stabilized in a 1-in-9 barrel or slightly faster twist.

The suggestion to find a dedicated singleshot boltgun, then turn it down however many "turns/threads" to make a "short" chamber is excellent!

But keep in mind a Short only needs 11 or 12 inches of barrel to reach MAX velocity/performance, versus @16in for the Long Rifle. Anything over those lengths represents DRAG on the rimfire projectile - so weighing the hassle/legalities of getting a Class II device versus a looooong barrel instead, becomes an important mental expercise.

Lastly, its been a few years, but whenever I sent emails to Volquartsen, ALL messages were answered - by Steve himself!

Maybe he could direct someone on where to buy some 1-9 twist, .920" barrel stock!!?? Or something already with a .22 Short chamber?

As another poster said, give the CB longs a try, Rem, CCI and Winchester all make them.

Also, a slightly longer barrel than your FS really quiets down the standard vel 22 longs and unless your neighbor is really close shouldn't ruffle any feathers.

Pugs,

For plinking the CB long or shorts in a long rifle chambered gun might light your fire. But if you are after better accuracy I doubt it...I've benched Aguila Colibri's, CCI CB's (longs & shorts) and shorts in a half a dozen or so .22 Long Rifle chambered rifles and they will not approach the accuracy of a LR in the same guns. Some claim otherwise... YMMV applies, indicating it's probably a crap shoot.

There are some short chambered semi-auto guns avail. used; Remington 24 & 241 and the Browning SA ATD, that are marked 'for .22 short only', all basically the same gun. Over on Rimfirecentral, owners of the Browning ATD claim they are able to cycle CB shorts reliably and the groups out to 25 yards look good. I had a Remington 550P, while it will function with S,L&LR it was not all that accurate with the shorts or longs.

You do know that your CZ will feed shorts from the magazine? I have a couple of Trainers (24+ inch barrels) and CB's & target shorts are pretty quiet out of them. CZ also makes a 28 inch barreled Bolt rifle Which would be fun to try target shorts and CB's in, heard that they are very quiet.

CCI and Aguila (the ones I've tried) make Target shorts, they are considerably quieter than HV Shorts (they are subsonic), of the lot's I tried...the CCI target shorts were considerably more accurate than the Aguila's.

While a .22 short may only need 11 or 12 inches of barrel to reach it's maximum velocity(?), it will be louder than if in a longer barrel.

First step in considering a suppressor, is to find out if your state is OK with them (google search or it's probably listed over on silencertalk). A subsonic .22 LR out of a suppressed rifle is about the same as a quiet pellet gun.

Have fun,

Jerry

Digital Dan...You must have your radar up for any post that contains the word(s) 22 short!

Stubbleduck, that thing about barrel length efficiency for various RF ammo has always been a puzzle to me. What you stated ref. short and LR barrels sounds perfectly rational...but in days past my chronograph had a different opinion. The CB shorts from my Contender run in the range of 780 fps. Ammo lot? Match chamber? Don't have a clue myself. From a Rem 572 with a 24" barrel the statistical difference was nil. To muddy things up a little more a pair of Rem 513s w/ 26" barrels are about 50 fps faster than the same loads from a 10/22. All 3 rifles have factory barrels.

Have seen the same thing with CF rifles of course and that is easier to grasp. RFs can be a puzzle sometimes.

DD I had that same TC Carbine in .22 Hornet and let someone trade me out of it. It killed more crows than West Nile virus ever will. I gotta get another one.

That's a lot of crows. Good luck replacing that one. Sold a good #1 awhile back in K-Hornet that was good for 3/4" 100 yd groups most any ol' time. Replaced with a Mod 54 with the same chamber w/ Lyman Jr Targetspot. Some fella named L. Kilbourn stamped his name on the barrel.

Incredible/interesting post Dan! I reported what Dr White said and other statistics/figures, but hard to argue (really wrong word actually) with your experience when your chrony or experiece says otherwise!

Morale of the story, ascertain 'facts' with a chronograph - like the 'trust but verify' approach.

Still, your suggestion to set back a LR barrel on a boltgun to "make" a committed Short-gun is a damn good one!!

BTW, when you bag your little porkers, how much weight do they dress out to? Judging by pics/their size I suppose many tend to be tender? vs 'tough?' Most of them appear to be youngish pigs?

A good Dremel tool will take that off if'n you are ashamed of it or you can send it my way.

Pugs: I am ignorant on this point and I hope someone will enlighten me.
I am wondering if 22 Short cartridges will function through a standard Ruger 10/22 magazine and feed (jump?) properly into the breech/chamber of a custom 10/22 "Short" barrel?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Crowrifle, Yer a funny guy!



They trend to younger mostly. 30-125# is a fair representative spread. Top end to date has been about 250# for boar and 200# for sows. Don't see a lot of big boars but there are a fair number of the larger sows. My freezer, palate and energy level prefers the 50-75# range. Boars tend to be more solitary and the rest wad up into large groups. I mostly don't screw with them when there's more than one full grown sow. OTOH, if you bust the sow first the youngsters hand around long enough to be a bullet stop. Took down 5 one day without doing anything more than reloading.

This is what I mean by a "wad". I don't pursue them here. The cover in the backdrop is where I work.

No, they won't. Volquartsen sells modified magazines for that purpose.

If you buy the kit it comes with the new bolt assembly and a magazine.

I have to admit I've not tried to feed shorts or CB's out of my CZ or Cooper magazines. If that works that's a short term fix.

Dan,

Nice to see you around....

Will a Aguila SSS fit into a .22 Short chamber?...or does the rifle have to be chambered in .22 LR...


Bob

Hey there! I think you can get them in with a few hammer taps but otherwise, no. Wear safety glasses. LR Chamber for the SSS. Funny name for a .22 cartridge, no? Shoot, Shovel and...I think I will.

Pugs:

CCI CB Longs will feed through the magazine of your 10/22.

Just learn to pull the bolt straight back and, without letting go, guide the bolt forward smartly with thumb and forefinger. Not too fast. Not too slow. Less than 10 rounds to learn how to do it.

Think of it as a poor man's T-bolt.

- Tom

I like the CCI CB longs. They feed well in my Sako Quad, but not so in my Norinco CZ/Brno copy.

I have been looking for some Remington CBee subsonic 22lr, but will probably have to order some.
An agressive 33 gr HP at ~740 fps in a 22lr case sounds like the perfect pest control round.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=57580

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1282751

.22 shorts! A subject near and dear to my heart. I've been a fan for over 40 years. I would buy 'em by the case with my yard work money when I was 9 years old. I still use a lot.

Right now on my snack bar(easy access) are; CCI CB'S , Colibris, CCI standard shorts and 2 boxes of the super snipers.

I had a Rem 552 that would feed CB's, it went to grandson number 1. My Henry levergun fed shorts and grouped them very well, it went to one of my emploee's 11 year old son last month.

Right now I have a Cz 552 and a Browning Micro Midas that both feed and group very well with CB's.

I love this little Browning! I put a small slip on recoil pad on it for a little more length of pull.

It fits perfectly in one of those gun show shotgun scabbards. Just sling it across my back and go.

Picked up a couple boxes of Winchester CB Long match today for my little experiment - thanks for the thoughts folks.

Pugs, if they don't group for you off the bat, try elevating the muzzle to vertical between each shot. It moves the powder to a consistent position for each shot. It usually improves accuracy a fair bit as well. Lots of room in that case for a few flakes to wander around in.

Interesting - thanks for the tip.

Gonna try that in my Winnie 67 - learn something everyday. I get the occasional stray using them.