Just read that Winchester will be bringing out a new Rimfire Cartridge and it will be the FASTEST Rimfire period . Supposed to happen in early January . Not much else is known . Wonder if it will be a 20 ..... or something wild like a 19 or 18 ? Anyone know more about it ?
All someone's gotta do is load a 25 grainer in the 5mm Rem Mag and they've got the fastest rimfire period.
I hope they come out with the 5mm in a lever and make some 25 gr like Yoder says. I have been eyeing the old Rem 5mm but they are kind of high. Of course any new Winchester probably won't be cheap HA
My first response would be WHY?.....I mean, other than just to make something nobody else does just to do it...or is there a legitiment void in the rimfire calibers that are available now that maybe I'm missing?
40 gr 22 cal rf with the speed of a HMR
I'm going to guess that it's a 5mm again.
They've got the bullets designed for the .204 Ruger to work with now, as opposed to when the 5mm RM came out. It will probably have a 32gr Nosler BT or a Hornady Vmax, as the first load.
The reason: lots of places here in the east ban centerfires, but allow rimfires, and people want better performance at distance with what they can legally use
.
In short, the same reason the .17HMR sold so well: cheap compared to .22 centerfires for non-reloaders, usable almost everywhere, superior to the .22lr, flat trajectory.
I have a .17 hmr. It did seem to find its own niche pretty well...it just seems to me that there are not very many gray areas left for the rf cartridges, I could be wrong tho.
Yawn. Another HV rimfire. The .17 HMR seems to have been developed for the eradication of western ground squirrels and nothing else. It is too powerful for edible Eastern tree squirrels, cottontails and grouse, but insufficient for Woodchucks and other critters of that size.
This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.
Since so few of us hunt edible small game anymore, there will never be a market to develop such a load not to mention the expense of developing suitable firearms.
Oh well...
my .17hmr seems to work pretty well on the coyotes round here, as long as I stay away from the 17gr balistic tips. I've killed 6 with it this year.
Other than that, meat damage on the tree rats or rabbits is pretty much relative to shot placement.
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.
It works, but there's a lot of merit to KWII's assertions, too. Here in Kentucky, where the ranges aren't as long as out West, an old-school rimfire larger than .22 would have a lot of good uses. The old .25 Stevens, and the old .32 Stevens rimfires would probably be the cat's azz for our needs.
Alas, that's unlikely as hell, for the reasons KWII mentioned.
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.
It works, but there's a lot of merit to KWII's assertions, too. Here in Kentucky, where the ranges aren't as long as out West, an old-school rimfire larger than .22 would have a lot of good uses. The old .25 Stevens, and the old .32 Stevens rimfires would probably be the cat's azz for our needs.
Alas, that's unlikely as hell, for the reasons KWII mentioned.
What would those needs be ? I can't think of anything here {NY} that they'd be better for than the rimfires that already exist.
They'd be the cat's azz for turkeys, groundhogs, beaver, coyotes,bobcats, the heavier vermin. Not that the current stuff won't kill them, but I think the larger, heavier bullets might be more decisive at times.
Let's see - someone posts that they read that Winchester is coming out with a new rimfire cartridge in the near future with no other information about it and there are already folks defending their favorite cartridge against it.
Wow! I can hardly wait until it actually arrives on the scene if folks are already getting this worked up about an unknown item. This has the makings of a long winters reading.
drover
Just read that Winchester will be bringing out a new Rimfire Cartridge and it will be the FASTEST Rimfire period . Supposed to happen in early January . Not much else is known . Wonder if it will be a 20 ..... or something wild like a 19 or 18 ? Anyone know more about it ?
I have it on good authority that Winchester is going to hollow out the rim of the .225 Winchester to add priming compound and neck it down to .204. 25 grain V-Max at about 4600 fps for varmints, or 55 grain "heavy for caliber" TTSX at around 3900 for elk. They're still trying to get a ROI on their initial outlay for the .225 and thought the market was right.
Well that won't work - they will need to use at least a 27.5 grain bullet and a 8.3 twist barrel for that to work otherwise it will be overbore and understabilized.
drover
Let's see - someone posts that they read that Winchester is coming out with a new rimfire cartridge in the near future with no other information about it and there are already folks defending their favorite cartridge against it.
Wow! I can hardly wait until it actually arrives on the scene if folks are already getting this worked up about an unknown item. This has the makings of a long winters reading.
drover
I'm not THAT worked up about it, either way. I've been thinking along the lines of the old Stevens rimfires for quite awhile, though. I think they'd be funner than a cat in a blender.d:^)
Of course, I thought the idea of a .17HMR was kinda silly until I saw some cartridges, and it instantly said "hey, this would be fun as hell on prairie dogs". I listened, and bought the first HMR to hit town. Still love the little tyke, too.
It was only two weeks ago that I regressed a little and bought a .22WMR barrel for my CZ455, and I still haven't shot it yet.
There appears to be a fair amount of interest as well as some skeptical attempted humor about this Rimfire Topic . According to Eric Mayer who is often involved with Rimfire Industry news , the Ammo will be at the Media Day Event ( for the Press )... the day prior to the start of the Shot Show , and that he will be there to report . It will be interesting to see if some of you guessed right .
They'd be the cat's azz for turkeys, groundhogs, beaver, coyotes,bobcats, the heavier vermin. Not that the current stuff won't kill them, but I think the larger, heavier bullets might be more decisive at times.
Can't use a rifle for turks here so nix that. They wouldn't be "the cats azz" for coyote as that requires .22 centerfire ballistics. The 5mm Remington is decisive on groundhogs to at least 150 yds. and a slower, larger bore rimfire won't best it.
17M2 for me.
17 or 22 Hornet is the next logical step up.
Yawn. Another HV rimfire. The .17 HMR seems to have been developed for the eradication of western ground squirrels and nothing else. It is too powerful for edible Eastern tree squirrels, cottontails and grouse, but insufficient for Woodchucks and other critters of that size.
This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.
Since so few of us hunt edible small game anymore, there will never be a market to develop such a load not to mention the expense of developing suitable firearms.
Oh well...
Would be pleased to see a larger bore RF introduced or reintroduced myself. The .32 Long is OK, but I'd like something in the .40+ caliber range, maybe 200 grains or a bit more around 1400-1500 fps.
Think what Hornady did with the .17 HMR introduction was a brilliant piece of marketing and have no issues with those that have a use for them. I don't, nor do I see any particular need for another small bore RF cartridge. They all have some catching up to do with the .22 Hornet which is the bottom rung on the ballistic ladder insofar as varmint cartridges go. Barring a significant advance in propellent performance RFs will never close the gap on any CF varmint cartridge.
From another site:
This is an update from the guy who originally released the info.
We broke the news here that Winchester is introducing what is going to be the fastest rimfire cartridge in the world in early 2013. What�s clear is that this round will up the performance bar for rimfires by quite a margin giving it a clear ballistic advantage over other rimfire rounds.
But how will it do with respect to the two �A�s: accuracy and affordability? I know that one of Winchester�s main goals is to keep the round affordable, about within 10 to 15 percent of the price of current premium rimfire ammunition�so it should be competitively priced.
With respect to accuracy, I have reason to be optimistic and reason for concern. Some key elements of this cartridge have a proven track record when it comes to accuracy, while others are venturing into uncharted, and potentially hazardous territory�at least from the standpoint of turning in small groups.
But Winchester's key partner in this venture�the company that is making the first rifles for this round�takes its accuracy very seriously, so I�d be surprised if the round doesn�t turn in varmint-sized groups at 200 yards.
But I�ll only know the answer to that question once I get behind the trigger.
And then...........
Another update, more info found.
If you think the 300 Win. Mag. is a significant improvement over the .30-06, wait until you shoot the new ground-breaking rimfire cartridge from Winchester. I'm not allowed to disclose its name or caliber yet, but it's scheduled to storm the market in 2013, beginning as soon as early or mid-March. Its performance exceeds current cartridges in its class by a wider margin than the 300 Win. Mag. over the .30-06.
I don't say this based merely on rumor or manufacturer hype. I've shot the new round. It does everything Winchester says it will. The bullets fly from the muzzle 500 fps faster than any other rimfire cartridge I'm aware of. At 250 yards, they retain nearly double the energy of the next-best round in their class. During my testing off sand bags from a portable bench, five bullets clustered just over 1 inch at 100 yards in light but variable winds. A single four-shot group went into a .39-inch spread, and one 300-yard four-shot group fell inside of 2.5 inches. All this was accomplished with a prototype bolt-action rifle so unrefined that cartridges had to be hand fed and extracted from the chamber with a knife blade.
Ballistic coefficient and velocity of the bullets are so high that this new round should hold a Maximum Point Blank Range of 250 yards on an 8-inch target. This means you aim at the center of the 8-inch target and hit it at any and all distances out to 250 yards. Last but not least, the new rounds should cost within 10 percent of currently available rimfire rounds in their class, or about a third less than some centerfire rounds with similar ballistic performance.
Because dimensions of the round are significantly different from any others currently made, at least one gun maker is reportedly building newly designed bolt-action rifles to fire it. Two more are reportedly working on additional models. Whether those are bolt actions, break actions, levers, semiautos or something else remains to be revealed.
�New� cartridges are a tried and sometimes true method for ramping up sales in the shooting industry, but most of them provide only incremental improvements over existing rounds. This new cartridge from Winchester is more than that. Much more. It should be a game changer.
Thats pretty interesting yoder409. I just question the void that is lacking in the current line up that is going to draw enough of a market to justify and sustain a new round (plus the gun to shoot it) in the long haul.
I'm not saying its not there, I just think its gonna have to be a few steps beyond the novelty factor to survive.....now If I could kill a coyote at 200 yrds with it with out compensating my aiming point I might just be the first in line for it....
Be interested to hear what it will do the Hornet will not
Screw the rimfires. Think 5.7x28!
F
Ballistic coefficient and velocity of the bullets are so high that this new round should hold a Maximum Point Blank Range of 250 yards on an 8-inch target.
A 35gr bullet at 2,300fps
Be interested to hear what it will do the Hornet will not
The main thing that would set it apart from the hornet, or any other centerfire for that matter, regardless of the ballistic charachteristics is that
it won't use a replaceable centerfire primer...THAT is the game changer in comparing this "mystery" round to any other centerfire.
It has to do with state hunting regulations more so to me than the ballistic characteristics when compareing to a centerfire.
When something sounds too good to be true..........well, it usually is. Will have to wait and see on this one.
Be interested to hear what it will do the Hornet will not
The main thing that would set it apart from the hornet, or any other centerfire for that matter, regardless of the ballistic charachteristics is that
it won't use a replaceable centerfire primer...THAT is the game changer in comparing this "mystery" round to any other centerfire.
It has to do with state hunting regulations more so to me than the ballistic characteristics when compareing to a centerfire.
Plus, .22 Hornet ammo is 56.00 for a box of 50 at Wal-Mart. Lots of folks don't reload and don't want to.
I was more concerned with its ballistic characteristics,
Agree many folks don't reload and don't want to .... But many do and don't mind...
I'm betting either something like a .32 Long sized rimfire cartridge necked down to 20 cal or something really off the wall like a short, squat WSSM style rimfire. There have been .32 and .44 rimfires forever, no reason you couldn't take one and neck it down to a smaller caliber like .22 or .20.
Don't have any idea what Winchester has up its sleeve but there are a couple of points some of you seem to be overlooking in the wishes/dreams/hopes department.
First and most obvious is the pressure constraints attendant to rimfire cartridges. Second is the reason for bottle necking a cartridge case. It is done to provide more case capacity for a given caliber bore. More capacity equals more powder equals higher pressure. Third, the only way to overcome the pressure issue is to radically alter the form of the pressure curve. Forth and last, long range performance is as much about ballistic coefficients than muzzle velocity, or more when the relative range is very long. Once an aerodynamically efficient nose and base form for a bullet is established the only way to enhance BC is to add mass. Greater mass leads you back to problems with pressure, that being the essential weakness of the RF concept.
Don't get your hopes up too high.
You keep throwing out pressure. Doesn't the 5mm Remington Mag have a max pressure of 39,000 CUP? That would seem to indicate pressure is not the issue in rimfire cartridges you seem to think it is. That is 22 Hornet level.
Yawn. Another HV rimfire. The .17 HMR seems to have been developed for the eradication of western ground squirrels and nothing else. It is too powerful for edible Eastern tree squirrels, cottontails and grouse, but insufficient for Woodchucks and other critters of that size.
This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.
Since so few of us hunt edible small game anymore, there will never be a market to develop such a load not to mention the expense of developing suitable firearms.
Oh well...
That sounds a lot like my favorite knock around rifle and loads. Original M94 Marlin 25-20 WCF shooting cast bullets. Lyman 257420GC over 13-4198 gives about 2kfps and is a great load for small game headshots up through coyotes
You keep throwing out pressure. Doesn't the 5mm Remington Mag have a max pressure of 39,000 CUP? That would seem to indicate pressure is not the issue in rimfire cartridges you seem to think it is. That is 22 Hornet level.
Yes, and in the original rendition of the ammo, it had a lot of problems, resulting in extractor problems, etc. The Centurion ammo is using a lighter bullet and different powder to get where it needs to go, at easier-to-handle pressures.
The technology today MIGHT make it easier to get something worthwhile here, but we won't know that until there are a few out there getting used.
We can speculate all we like, but we won't know a thing until it gets here and some knowledgeable people get to try it out.
You keep throwing out pressure. Doesn't the 5mm Remington Mag have a max pressure of 39,000 CUP? That would seem to indicate pressure is not the issue in rimfire cartridges you seem to think it is. That is 22 Hornet level.
Keep your hopes up if you wish. I know the facts are inconvenient and all that.
In response to your question, no.
In response to your conclusion, Your spin on my assertion is sadly misguided.
In response to your implied equivalence of pressure level with the Hornet, no.
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
VarmintGuy
Huh? No turtles? Geez....
DMc
Drover: I think you miss-spoke (or miss-posted!) - indeed someone blasphamed a wonderful cartridge and I chose to defend against such blasphemy!
Lest someone get the wrong impression after reading such blasphemy.
I did not just randomly choose to give a pep talk on my "favorite cartridge".
And, I would not say I am worked up as much as being in a state of disbelief that someone could have such an unfounded and erroneous opinion regarding one of "my favorite" cartridges.
Again my defense of the 17 HMR was not intended to provide you with winter reading but to prevent anyone from a glaring misconception of what the 17 HMR is fully capable of doing, I know - cause I done it!
I was back to this thread looking for specifics on this "new" Winchester rimfire cartridge - seems there aren't any yet?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
DMc: I have not killt a Turtle as yet with my 17 HMR but that may happen in the future!
One of my favorite Prairie Dog ranches has a remote stock pond that Turtles have invaded and the ranch owner is miffed because his Catfish don't flourish like they used to.
I have helped him a couple of times with reducing his Turtle population but alas not yet with the 17 HMR.
No "geez" to it the 17 HMR is an all around Varmint rimfire cartridge of the first order!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Varmint Guy: I have to add the 17 HM2 round along with the 17 HMR for spring prairie dog pup shooting .I consider myself over gunned using the 17 HMR for shots within 100 yards. I have gotten five boxes of 17 Hornet ammo, a 4-16X AO scope,and military sling,but still have to order Redding Neck& FL dies and some empty brass. Whenever I get a 17 Hornet rifle I ll have all I need to shot it. Come spring I plan on having the three rifles in my pickup. Over the years after reading about various new cartridges. I got them so I know what they will do. Theres some who have a lot of ideas but I doubt that they have tryed out only a few firearms and cartridges.
VG, when you getting married?
This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.
Plus 1. The fast and light rimfire movement has been beat to death. .17m2, .17hmr, 5mm and lightweight .22m's, I have zero interest in another rodent slayer. I'd never heard of the .25rf until reading Keith and afterwards wondered why in the world it went away. Apparently it just makes way too much sense to come to being again.
I think it is going to be the "17 Winchester Super Magnum".
I was searching and came across this under ammunition through an online store.
http://www.loudoungunsinc.com/winch...per-magnum-25gr-vmax-s17w25-p-33621.html
DigitalDan: I have been married 36 years and 3 months... so far.
The VarmintWife is a workaholic - thank you Lord!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Barm: Thanks for that interesting link.
You may just have solved this mystery!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
VarmintGuy,
I have wanted to know for awhile and I wanted to share when I found out.
Bracer: I am with you on the 100 yard "minimum limit" when using my 17 HMR's (except I use my Smith & Wesson Model 647 in 17 HMR to bonk Ground Squirrels in to about 40 yards) - 17 HMR Rifles are simply more gun than needed for the closer Gophers. And theres no need to be wasting ammo money using the 17 HMR's when the cheap 22's will take them out at the closer ranges.
I have to get on the stick and order some 17 Hornet dies myself - thanks for the reminder!
All I have so far is the ammo boxes (no brass or factory ammo) along with some primers and a good variety of 17 caliber bullets.
Do you think 17 Hornet brass is available anywhere as yet/soon?
Or are you thinking of making your brass from 22 Hornet stuff?
I think I will go with the Redding dies myself - I will try to get along without the 3 die set myself. Until I see a need.
When one of my acquaintances or someone I don't know passes along an opinion that I am dubious of I always wait a few or several minutes and then revisit said "opinion" and query them regarding actual hands on experience by them on said opinion.
I often end up finding out there is NO first hand experience by them at all to be basing an opinion on.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Bracer: (except I use my Smith & Wesson Model 647 in 17 HMR to bonk Ground Squirrels in to about 40 yards)
Yours 647 must shoot alot better than most do then. Mine is worst grouping pistol I have ever had in my hands.
That is an issue that had constantly plauged the model accross the board.
I was told by a tech at s&w company that is the very reason they disontinued the model. He said it was an otherwise exteremly popular model but accuracy issues caused em to pull the plug on it.
I checked the link out. I didn't see any ballistics info on it there. Does that round fit in the parimeters of the decription given by the
mystery person that has supposedly shot the round? see below.....
I don't say this based merely on rumor or manufacturer hype. I've shot the new round. It does everything Winchester says it will. The bullets fly from the muzzle 500 fps faster than any other rimfire cartridge I'm aware of. At 250 yards, they retain nearly double the energy of the next-best round in their class. During my testing off sand bags from a portable bench, five bullets clustered just over 1 inch at 100 yards in light but variable winds. A single four-shot group went into a .39-inch spread, and one 300-yard four-shot group fell inside of 2.5 inches. All this was accomplished with a prototype bolt-action rifle so unrefined that cartridges had to be hand fed and extracted from the chamber with a knife blade.
Ballistic coefficient and velocity of the bullets are so high that this new round should hold a Maximum Point Blank Range of 250 yards on an 8-inch target. This means you aim at the center of the 8-inch target and hit it at any and all distances out to 250 yards. Last but not least, the new rounds should cost within 10 percent of currently available rimfire rounds in their class, or about a third less than some centerfire rounds with similar ballistic performance.
I'm sorry I don't know about the ballistics, but I also did more searching and found someone else talking about it.
http://www.varminter.com/winchester-worlds-fastest-rimfire-cartridge-coming-2013/
Looks like that might be whats causeing the stir...
Just a 25grn in the .17 now available would be a big help in med size varmits imo.
I can tell a big differance in the 17 grn and the 20 grn's in the .17 cal thats out there now.
From that link:
"However, if the specs are true, this should eclipse the 3000 feet per second mark..."
Well, there you have it! The cat is out of the bag. In honor of the 100th anniversary* of the .250-3000, Winchester is going to introduce the .17-3000 in a Portugese made reproduction of the Savage 99. Should be exciting!
*They're three years ahead of schedule but who's quibbling?
The Winchester PR dept is loving this and other threads around the Internets!
Let me suggest something that goes against the grain. It will be a lackluster 204, destined to fail because of ammunition costs and little industry support for the platform.
I know what you're thinking, but with all the hype, there must be a requirement for anti-hype. Remember Newton's third law of motion - For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
It will be a lackluster 204, destined to fail because of ammunition costs and little industry support for the platform.
Is the 204 your refering to a rimfire?
What are the physical dimentions of the 17wsm rf case as compared to the 22 mag or the 17 hmr?
Thats funny,... other folks here have given more info than you did on it....
What it boils down to is that we'll have to wait for the official announcement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
It will be a lackluster 204, destined to fail because of ammunition costs and little industry support for the platform.
Is the 204 your refering to a rimfire?
Varmint Guy: Ill start out with five boxes, 125 rounds of Hornady ammo. By neck sizing the rimmed case they should be reloadable five plus times. I have some extra new 22 Hornet brass for my Kimber of OR Mdl 82 but I dont like the thin walled 22 brass. Hornady 17 Hornet brass should be avalible befor prairie dogs pups come out. This winter there a few jackrabbits hanging out by my wheat feild that are going to find out what a 17 Hornet will do.-- Next year theres an old girl that has hung out with me for 55 years. Could be that Im an old gun nut.
Yawwwwwwwwwn ! I'd have been alot more interested in a larger bore magnum rimfire. I had precious little use for the .17 HMR I bought and subsequently sold and don't want or need another pea shooter.
Bracer: I just returned from a day afield here in SW Montana - had a blast took some great photos and as I am coming up my drive just after sunset (in a blazing moonrise!) I spy 3 big white Jack Rabbits cavorting in my field!
I think the 17 Hornet (if I had one!) would be the perfect medicine for these tall Jacks.
Yeah I can't wait to get one.
Yeah the necks of some 22 Hornet brass these days can get VERY thin indeed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Bracer: I just returned from a day afield here in SW Montana - had a blast took some great photos and as I am coming up my drive just after sunset (in a blazing moonrise!) I spy 3 big white Jack Rabbits cavorting in my field!
I think the 17 Hornet (if I had one!) would be the perfect medicine for these tall Jacks.
Yeah I can't wait to get one.
Yeah the necks of some 22 Hornet brass these days can get VERY thin indeed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
10-4............As a reloader, I've no use for a rimfire when a centerfire already exists that will stomp it's azz and do it cheaper..........'though I do feel for those east of me who can only hunt predators with rimfires on conservation areas. For them this may be the "grail"..........
X-VERMINATOR
Looks like it's the 17 Winchester Super Mag with a 20 Gr. @ 3000 FPS and a 25 Gr. @ 2600 FPS .
Couldn't tell from the video what the physical dimensions of the cartridge are, but it would be neat if I could just add a $150 barrel/ magazine to my CZ-455 if curiousity gets the best of me.
I'll admit I'm interested. I have 22lrs, 22mags, had a 17m2 and an hmr.
I also use the 221fb and the .223...
I like my 22mag for coons and fox sized critters out to 100yards or so. I like my centerfires for coyotes and cats.
But I do believe Winchester may be onto something here. I'm really interested. I know it hasn't been used on critters yet but judging by the numbers it looks like you could have a rifle that would be hell on crows, pigeons, and the like but be able to take predator calling as well. For an easterner like me where shots are generally 100yards or less...it looks like a sweet little package so far.
Yep,
I'm intrested! also interested in the Savage single shot rifle in the link. Alway have liked falling block rifles.
Virgil B.
Couldn't tell from the video what the physical dimensions of the cartridge are, but it would be neat if I could just add a $150 barrel/ magazine to my CZ-455 if curiousity gets the best of me.
In Swampy's link above there is a pic of HMR and WSM side by side. It appears that the WSM may be too big for a standard HMR Magazine ... can't see much regarding head dimensions ... Tried Google-fu, but my skills are weak ... must not be much out there on case dimensions.
They did say it was based off a .27 cal nail gun cartridge. Substantially fatter than the .17hrm and .22M.
Yep,
I'm intrested! also interested in the Savage single shot rifle in the link. Alway have liked falling block rifles.
Virgil B.
I think thats a winchester 1885 low wall.
I thought it was a 1885 too. I'm interested in the savages though. Anyone know anything about them?
They did say it was based off a .27 cal nail gun cartridge. Substantially fatter than the .17hrm and .22M.
IF their illustration is to scale AND my skills with a caliper can be trusted, there is approximately 0.009" differences in head diameter. 0.286" for the HMR (wikipedia) extrapolates to 0.295" for the new WSM. Approximately a 3% increase.
I bet Ruger will have little difficulty adapting it for their 77/22 .... Little work to their Hornet magazine and boom
Did'nt see any dimensions on the case reported by anyone yet . One downside ( if there is one ) is that the cartridges are pricey . Saw a post from Mr. Mayer which listed prices from about $15 to $17 per Box depending on the Bullet ( Don't know if that was Retail or not ).
What do you think barrel/throat life will be like with this round?
Ricks got a sticky on it in the Hunters Forum...
Darn, I dont even have a 17 Hornet rifle yet and an bigger 17 rimfire is comming out to tempt me. Im somewhat of a 17 caliber fan . If they chamber a rifle for the Win round that is accurate it may get into my gun locker.
"The most interesting thing about the .17WSM may be the casing it uses, which doesn�t come from a firearm at all. Winchester manufactures .27 caliber rimfire casings already for use in powered fasteners (what we rednecks call �nail guns�).�"
Maybe Winchester will nickname the cartridge the NAILER.
I dont know.......less than 17 hornet performance, can't reload, expensive compared to other non-reloadable rounds and all with our current economy.......I hope I am wrong (because I like 'em all) but I see this one going the way the way of the WSSMs, Remington's SAUM, and Rugers RCM???? I think they would have been much further off offering something that is not out there that offers a significant advantage over what is out there......I think a .20 Winchester Magnum would fare better - just sayin..............best of luck Winchester but I'm going to be using my .17 Ackley Hornet.
PennDog
What guns will it be chambered in? It looks to big to be in a normal .22 or .22 Magnum action.
It looks like Savage will be first out with new rifles, which is cool with me because they make some dandy little rimfires. If they can make one that shoots as accurately as my Model 93 BRJ (sub-MOA groups at 100 yards with the right 22 Mag ammo when the wind isn't howling) I'll certainly want to play with one:
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/93BRJ I understand a couple of other manufacturers are also working on rifles. Hopefully we'll see some at SHOT. It will be interesting to see if this takes off. I suspect it might.
What guns will it be chambered in? It looks to big to be in a normal .22 or .22 Magnum action.
77/22 (77/17) ... the 77/22 already comes in Hornet length
First announcement for a 17 WMR I picked up on another Site was from Savage : Model B ( Stock # 96901 ) which will have its own sized Action . 22 inch Sporter BBL , Accutrigger , Black Syn. Stock , and an MSRP around $300 . Can CZ , Cooper , etc. be far behind ?
i would love to hear guesses or speculations if thompson center or one or more of the custom shops make a barrel that will fit on a TC carbine or pistol.
if so, i'd love to have one.