Like many, I have been impressed with the accuracy of Winchester Power-Point .22 LR hollow-points since they came out.

But have been getting reports lately that the accuracy had been falling off in recent lots, so bought a new brick at the local store and tested it in my CZ sporter--50 yards, 3-9x Burris Compact with AO, wind flag out. Averagee for 5, 5-shot groups was right at .5 inch, with 4 shots usually in .3 to .4. (Either a bad wind read, or "the nut behind the bolt" must have caused the fliers.) This seems sufficient to me, and about what I have come to expect in accurate .22 rifles ever since Power Points arrived.

Anybody else have anything exceptional (either way) to report?

MD

I started shooting them some years ago after reading the write ups about their debut in Oz. For my money they are the
very best in accuracy and they way they hit those little varmints.

Worth the extra cost.


Not to get side tracked, but I've had the worst luck with Federal 22s,
I just wont buy them anymore. Lousy accuracy.

In the high velocity hunting line I count on three for results and am seldom disappointed. The Eley high velocity hollowpoint is nearly always my number one accuracy champ. The Power Point is always right there in the running. And the CCI Small Game Bullet can hold it's own. Usually a new rifle or handgun will do it's best with one of these three. I haven't noticed any decline in the Power Point, but I'm working on a lot number in which I bought 2,000 rounds and haven't used them and it's not a real recent number.

Of the various brands that I tried in my 1710 Anschutz and tuned up Ruger 10-22 , Winchester Power Points has the best groups. The larger HP causes more tissue damage than other rounds that I tried.

Of high velocity hollow points, the only round that will outshoot (at least in my rifles) the WW PP is the Eley HV HP. PP's usually inside .4" (five shot groups) @ 50. I've still got a few bricks from a couple of years back, so can't comment on current production.

Now, if we can get WW to manufacture the subsonic non-copper washed version that's sold in other parts of the world....

After comparing about 7 brands of ammo in a single session, I settled on Win PP's for both an Anschutz and a Ruger 77/22. Can get 10 in a dime at 50 yds with the Anschutz and have to go to a nickle with the Ruger. I compared Remington, CCI, Federals, and some forgotten speedier rounds. The high velocity stuff did indeed go about 150 to 200fps faster, but they were all over the place. 1Minute

Win. PPs are a very, very good performer in all of my .22s. I don't normally go for the paper-punching test; just sight 'em in and start sniping squirrels, but the PPs never have let me down. CCIs, and esp. Federals, on the other hand - SUCK!

The only .22s that I use other than the PPs are Remington .22 CBee Shorts in a single-shot .22. SUPER accurate, deadly inside of 35 yards, and silent enough to allow for follow-ups on those rare misses, and multiple target/squirrel acquisition without spooking the rest.

It sounds like we have a consensus here. Thank you one and all!

MD

I hate to sound like the lone dissenter (hiyo silver away), but I have never had any luck getting those Power Points to shoot for me. Usually always Winchester ammo of any form has been the poor grouper in my rimfires. Uh, with the exception of Remington Golden bullets. My current .22 long rifle is a Kimber Classic, and it will engrave the rifling into the bullets at chambering with MOST ammo, from any CCI to Eley to Wolf/SK/Lapua, but ALL Winchester ammo is a loose enough fit to not engrave. Best as I could measure with a micrometer the other ammos bullet diameters are closer to .224'', the Winchester runs from .222'' to .223'' in diameter. Last SuperX and Power Points I shot in this rifle grouped over an inch at 50 yards, while CCI Minimags hit 5/8'' average. SK Match and Match 500 will do sub half inch. Too bad for me, Power Point has a giant hollow point and the 40 grain bullet should hold more velocity at range than the lighter CCI 36 grain hollowpoints. Of course they all suck compared to my .17 M2............. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> M2 ammo is a lot more costly though.

Phillip--

Thanks very much for the dissent. Oddly enough, Power Points shoot very well in my own Kimber Classic, around .4 at 50 yards. I'm going to have to do some bullet measuring and see what's up. Of course, rimfire ammo always varies from lot to lot, but my experience so far (starting when PP's were first sold here in the USA) is that they have been remarkably consistent.

Thanks again,
MD

I'm running low on .22 LR Federals (I have one handgun and two rifles that love the American Eagle HP's) and for the fun of it will try the Winchester PP's next time . The brand my guns don't seem to prefer is Remington for some reason.

I just brought another brick and checked them out this morning in my ULA .22. At 50 yards they grouped about 1/2" or less. didn't even have to touch the scope from the settings of the previous brick that I bought almost year ago. I would guess they are still pretty good.


Lefty

Phillip--

Checked some bullet diameters. My two lots of Power Points measure .224" just in front of the case. Wolf target ammo also goes .224", while Eley Match EPS goes .225".

Some other stuff was .223" or less, notably a batch of CCI Velocitor. Wonder if that's part of how they get it going a little faster?

You may have a bad batch of Power Points.

MD

In the 80's I hoarded CCI Stingers because in my 10-22 they were a little more accurate than Power-Points, but this spring the stash ran out. Current production Stingers shoot poorly in my gun, so they've changed something. Good thing I kept my stash of Power-Points!

C&B

I had the same experience with whatever Federal called its extra-velocity Long Rifle round in the mid-80's. The original shot like crazy in my old Marlin Modle 80, as in a little over an inch at 100 yards. The next lot wouldn't average 2"!

MD

Mule Deer,

I think they were called "Spitfires" if I remember correctly. They shot good in my Marlin 60 in the mid-80's.

May have gotten some rejects, but I have sampled them several times from different stores around since getting the Kimber in Feb '02 , so what I tried came from very disparate lot numbers. I looked back at some old notes from the CZ 452 Classic .22 that I had from 1999-2002, and it didn't do very well with the Powerpoints either. It shot consistantly well with CCI Green Tag/Standard Velocity, CCI SGB, Eley Club Extra, and best of all with Eley Pistol Target of all things, grouping those easily in the .3's at 50 yards with nothing more than a 4x fixed Leupold on it. It shot terrible groups with ANY hyper velocity ammo. In my Kimber, the Velocitors will usually hold approximately 1'' groups at 50 yards and 2 to 2-1/2'' at 100 yards which is pretty mediocre. I dug out a box of Wolf Match Target which I had stowed in the gun junk drawer, had ten shots left in it. Shoved one patch down the bore to get out the Minimag residue, and sat down at my backyard bench and fired two groups of 5 @ 50 yds. with these last ten rounds, both groups were less than a half inch. I need to try some of the SK high velocity hollowpoints as they are made by the same company which makes the WMT, SK Jagd undt Sport Munition of Schonebeck Germany. I guess ya'll gun writer and industry guys would know a lot more about who makes what than I do though! Looks like my best bet would be to just order up some Wolf or SK Standard Plus for the Kimber, use it up to 75 yards, and use the CZ 452 .17M2 for longer distances. I like to watch the bullet holes appear in the target magically at 100 yards with those .17's, almost no recoil jolt at all.

Those .17's are amazing, aren't they?

The Velocitors I have one had meaure from .221 to .223--and shoot pretty poorly as well.

Don't know why you should be getting undersized Power Points in your neck of the woods unless it is a commie plot (put together by the few commies left) ot to undermine the sovereign state of Alabama. Maybe somebody from farther north can find some good Power Points and send 'em down.

MD

JB:

I bought a brick of Power Points in late April. I took them on a trip to the Sierras and I was terribly disppointed.

Why?

Becuase my buddy's Browning Buckmark would not shoot. I had him convinced that he should sell it to me for $100.

Then he tried my Power Points and he started hitting what he was aiming at (and the gun stopped jamming also).

Then, he refused to sell me the Browing. Now it is a "gem" that he won't part with!

My loss, but I can confirm that WW Power Points shoot great and are worth the money.

BMT

BMT--

What a sad story!

On a side note, tested some Velocitors (after lightly bad-mouthing them here) in a new .22, a CZ 452 I bought just last week. It shoots them almost as well as it shoots Power Points! Only reason I can figure is a nicely tight chamber, especially toward the front. The Velocitors in my lot vary from .220-.223 in diameter just in front of the case, and spray all over the place in most other rifles. But the chamber if this CZ is evidently tight enough to prevent gas-cutting or bullet tilting or all the other ills that can beset a .22 bullet in a generous chamber.

And they do go 1400 fps! Will have to try them on live targets now....

MD

MD,

The Velocitors shoot about the same as the PP's out of my ULA. PP's have always been great killers for me: g'hogs, fox, and do a number on crows (I hate crows). Have yet needed more than one shot (that danged single shot is slow to reload, have make that first one count).

Never tried the V's enough to get a valid opinion if they kill any better or not.

Best,
JB

C&B,

The Stinger bullet design was changed some time ago. Maybe early 90's or late 80's?

JB

Bought a brick of Power Points about a month ago to use for hunting this year. Many guys over on Rimfirecentral recommended them, so I bought some to try.
Prompted by your quiestion, I decided that now is the time for some testing.
I shot the ammo in 5 different rifles to see how it performed. These rifles were, an older Rem 510, Ruger 10-22 with factory lapped barrel, 10-22 with a Green Mountain barrel, Winchester Model 52B Repro and a Martini Mk II target rifle. All rifles are scoped with parallax set to 50 yards, the range I was shooting.
The Power Points would not shoot in any of the rifles. Accuracy was 1 1/4", or worse, for 5 shots at the 50 yards with each rifle.
All of these rifle will shoot very well, with the 510 being the least accurate at 7/16" for 5 shots with ammo it likes, at our 50 yard range. The Martini will shoot regularly in the teens with a Mitchell 2 1/2" 32 power scope. I shot the Martini yesterday with the Power Points. Initial groups were over 1" at 50 yards for 5 shots. However, the groups tightened up after shooting several groups rapidly without a break. At the end of that string of groups, I was down to a 3/4" group. I then took a break for about 20 minutes to talk to a shooting buddy. I decided to see how it would shoot with a cool barrel, and the first two shots were 1 1/2" apart.. So, I stopped shooting it at that point.
The Power Points in the brick I bought are useless for a hunting round.
Don

Don--

Did you measure the bullet diameter, just in front of the case mouth? Would be very grateful for the information.

MD

Don,

I'd be interested in a lot number if you have it available. I'm getting ready to re-supply and don't want to have a problem.

TIA,
JB

MD,
Just measured 15 Power Points. They ran from .2245 to .226.
Might be a little big for my 22's.
JB
I sorted all of the Power Points by weight right after I bought the brick. After sorting, I put the ammo in boxes that have the plastic template for the rounds to sit in. I threw all of the original boxes, and the big box it came in, away. So, I don't have the lot number.

MD and JB,
If you want any that I have to play with, I'd be happy to send you some. Just PM me you address and I send it UPS. It's sorted to .1 grain.

Don

MuleDeer,

I've had my new left handed .22lr CZ 452 American out to the range a few times. I've tried target and match grade ammo and so far it seems to like them all, easily putting them in 1/2" at 50 yards. I'm going to have to try those Winchester Power Points.

PS. The CCI stingers I've tried where very tight in my chamber, and went about 1" at 50 yards. They were also shoot a lot higher than the target grade.

P.S.S. Have you tried Winchester Wildcat ammo? I've hear that they are usually pretty good.

Leo

Just returned from the range where I shot some Power Points in a Suhl. They shot very poorly; same story as before, all over the target in a 2" group at 50 yards.
Must have gotten a bad lot..
Incidentally, the Suhl has a twist of one turn in 17 3/16". It just eats up Wolf Match Target however.
Don

Uh oh, shooting poorly out of a Suhl does not sound good at all....

I have a ULA .22 it's a repeater but most of the time it thinks it's a single shot. :confused <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Lefty

The last two bricks I bought were just fairly accurate -- ~3/4" group at 50 yds, where before I got 3/8" to 1/2". I saw a few slivers of lead around the case mouth. The bullets did not look as uniform as previous bricks and I quite buying them.

It's been a long, long time since I refreshed my hoarde of rimfire ammo. That stash would include some Power Points and a lot of American Eagle hollow-points. Both shoot very well from my 541-T. I think the newest of all my rimfire ammo must be from the early 90s.



-RR-

This weekend I went out a bought some Winchester Power Points and Winchester Wildcats. You know those little black circle target(~4" diam) that turn that greenish color when hit you can buy at Walmart? I could get all five shots into the center ring at 50yards with both the PowerPoints and Wildcats. I was fairly impressed for such cheapy ammunition. Especially after buying target and match grade ammo.

Oh, Winchester Power points don't shot that accurate out of my S&W 617 revolver. That particular handgun seems to prefer Federal Gold ammo.

My favorite 22RF ammo for most of the 70s and 80s was the CCI Mini Mag HP. CCI Stingers never came close to the same accuracy levels as their MMs did. Once fired a one inch 5 shot group at 100yds with the old MMs and my Win. M320. Last time I tried that with today's MMs, the group was closer to two inches. Maybe the ammo's still fine and I've GTH?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Years ago I discovered WW Dynapoints which were then only available at KMarts. Still probably have well over a thousand rounds of that stuff. They shoot very well in just about every 22 I own.

I bought bricks of WW Wildcats for my kid when he started shooting back in the late 70s, (he was about 4 or 5 then). His granny used to pick him up a brick of that stuff anytime he asked for it, so we always had plenty on hand through his twerp years. Once I headed up to our cabin when the kid was already up there with my parents and stopped for a brick of Wildcats on the way, Mom had brought two bricks along herself. Lord how she spoiled that boy.

Wildcats shoot tighter groups in my crusty Romanian trainer at 50 yards, than anything going, including pricey target ammo. That thing has averaged an honest 3/4" with 'Wildcats at 50 yards for years, although it has churned out more than a few 1/2" groups.

Nothing Remington ever made in a 22 rimfire cartridge, has suited me or any of the rifles I've owned, especially the 1022 that has only ever jammed on Remington ammo.

John,
Sorry to miss your thread on the Power Points. I've been shooting them now for about 10 years but the Winchester Power Points I'm shooting were made in Australia by Olln. They are in a orange and yellow box with a bigger hollow point that the newer Power Point ammo and hit alot harder. My 10-22 Butler Creek conversion shoot these in the hi .2's and low .3s at 50 yards and last year I got the smallest group at our BR-50 match with a .158. They seem to shoot in both my .22 Remington 40x to my Kimber. It was great seeing you at the Red Mist and if you want to try some of this ammo, let me know.
Tim

fwiw,
This is a bit off topic, however, I had a similar experience with Federal's Old 711 Standard Velocity Target Load. Bought two bricks in 97' that shot bugholes with my Kimber 82C 1 of 750 at 50 yards. This at less than $20 a brick...

Fast forward a few years and Federal evidently changed this load. The new 711, which may be 711B if memory serves, shot nothing like as well as the original. I have since read that Federal used the original 711 as a "blueprint" round to develop their better rimfire lines such as Ultramatch. It would seem that much of that progress was shot in the head with a change of ownership/management...

Regards, Matt.

Nothing but blind loyalty to the WIn PP. I use them for everything in all my .22's. Even my Nylon 66 drills holes with them at 25 yards and iron sights.

Used to be a "golden bullet" HP fan, but the PP beat it by 100 fps with consistent accuracy and I never looked back.

Stingers are neat, the CCI QuickShock are interesting, but not nearly as accurate.

I gave about 2000 rounds of misc. .22 stuff (including golden rem's) to my dad as a pre-fathers-day gift. He's not a "shooter" so it should last him a while.

TM

Tim--

Thanks for the offer, but I now have PP's from FIVE different sources to check, and the wind hasn't been light enough to do it for a few days. (Don't ever expect it to stop in Montana, but do hope to have it below 15 mph. With wind flags can cope with that....)

It was very good seeing you too. I was able to be home for 2 days, then off to another dog shoot in eastern Montana, which also went very well--almost 700 rounds one day. We got lucky again and encountered blue sky between the rainstorms!

Did not take the .22 on this one, instead a .22 Magnum (9422) with Win. 40 HP's which shoot great out if it. Also my favorite Ruger 1B Hornet, which as seems to happen in recent years got the biggest workout. Also shot quite a few with Winchester's new .204 ammo. Accurate, but the 34-grain hollow-point does not send them skyward like Sierras new 32 plastic-tip. Then again, further research is always indicated....

Best,
John

DMB ended up sending me two boxes of the Power Points that wouldn't shoot for him. I just got to test them yesterday afternoon. The rifle was my CZ 452 sporter with a 3-9x Burris Compact with AO that has performed very well on a number of .22's. Range was 50 yards.

It was dead calm when I started shooting (very unusual in the afternoon at ANY time of year in Montana) and the first group went into .41. Then a breeze started up, and after the 3rd group I decided to put up a wind flag. Finally got in six 5-shot groups before the wind was truly howling.

Had two fliers, one caused by my not snugging up the rifle to my shoulder consistently, the other by my trying to outguess the wind. If we ignore those (and I will) the six groups went into an average of .46.

The smallest was .26 (the first group after putting up the wind flag) and the largest was .59. So something else is going on here aside from the Power Points, maybe just the fact that different rifles like different loads. Must also note that this little rifle has shot everything I've tried in it so far, even CCI Velocitors, which have not shot at all well in any of my other .22's. They averaged .55 at the same range.

As an aside, the 3 Power Point groups shot without the wind flag averaged .53. The 3 groups shot with the flag averaged .39.

MD

Seems as though there is only one solution, for me.. Buy a CZ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Don

Hey Mr. Mule Deer, what in the world are you doing with a Burris Compact everybody else on here KNOWS they have no eye relief, horrible optics, fall apart, won't hold zero, no customer service, give ya the hives when you touch them, cause your rifles to fall apart, etc........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Snicker snicker snicker, sorry couldn't resist this time! Howcum the anti Burris patrol isn't here on the attack? If Mr. Barsness likes them and uses them, that's a good enough recommendation for me.

Regarding CZs, I think for the price that they are simply unbeatable. Nothing else made for about three hundred dollars that's even close.

Well, I done did it.. Ordered a CZ 452 22 today!!!
Now, I can shoot the Power Points I have... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Don

Phil--

Yeah, I've horrible luck with this particular Burris. Have only used it on .,22's and light cernterfires, but must have put 10,000 rounds under it over the last decade. Miserable little POS....

MD

Don--

Will be very interested to hear how the CZ experiment comes out! I have only tried 2, a .17 HMR and this .22 LR, and both are just outstanding, but other shooters have reported similar results....

MD

I think we've found MD's weakness... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

CZ slut maybe? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was thinkin' more along the lines of a .22 nut, myself. Maybe a combination (more than one weakness?)?

Kind of a CZ slut (have 4 now, aside from the rimfires a 9.3x62 and .416 Rigby). Suppose we could also throw in a .410 Huglu SxS, now that CZ is importing them.

Also a rimfire slut. Have (last count) seven .22 LR rifles, ranging from Winchester 62A and Marlin 39A (neither scoped, and the Marlin without any white lines) to latest Kimber and CZ. Also .17 Mach II T/C Contender Carbine and Winchester 9422M.

Also a slut for Savage 99's, good commercial Mauser 98's, lightweight German rifles in any configurtion (bolt, single-shot, double, drilling), and Ruger No. 1's. There are probably others but am confused at the moment by too many rifles passing by.....

MD

Nice 39A...when I find one of those in VG condition and at a decent price, it will follow me home.

My other .22s right now are a Marlin 60A (first rifle) and a Winchester 60A Target, made 1928, SN 12## (yep, only four digits) - and it is scary accurate with the factory Redfield peep and globe front. Remmy .22 CBee shorts = a limit of bushytails in nothing flat.

Haven't gotten on the .17 rim bandwagon yet; I just can't see what the .17s do that .22LRs don't on the low end or the .221/.223 does on the high end.

Savage 99s ... I have one, and it may be all I need; a 1949-50 99EG, .300 Savage that was a closet queen prior to me finding her. She still has only 18 rounds, total - ever, through the barrel, and the action has only been worked about 50 times by the wear on the color-case lever. Redfield peep on this one, too - maybe factory as the rear sight is blanked and no marks are visible - but a Stith and Weaver K2.5 post-and-crosshair are going aboard soon. How would I ever top that? That is, unless, Jed starts giving away those engraved beauties he's hiding in the 'dacks, that is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Single-shots are the other weakness - T/Cs right now, but I see #1s and (someday) Dakota #10s in the future.

Ahhh, <sigh> I have visions of shooting range fairies dancing in my head... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Also a slut for _______________________ (fill in the blank or blanks)

Works just as good, don't it?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I am guilty of ignoring my 22 rimfires for long periods of time, then re-discovering how much fun they are and feelin' like an idiot all over again for having neglected them.

Vanimrod--

I have been looking for a 39A for a long time at a decent price and suddenly there it was one day! It shoots, too. Will put 5 Power Points into 3/4" at 50 with Williams 5D and factory front bead. (There go those dang Power Points again.)

Nice 99! I have only 5 right now, unless you count the 99-RS barreled action that I keep around for parts. (It has WAY too many holes in the silver receiver, but the wood was OK and a friend needed it--and the other parts have come in handy.) Don't have any really fancy 99's but do have some good working guns, and I hunt all of them.

Might just as well have said I was single-shot slut instead of Ruger #1. They are my general favorite but also have an Encore and Contender in rifle/carbine configurations. Used to have several Winchester 1885's, both repor and original, but have mostly sent them down the road. Also have an original trapdoor 1884 Springfield and my new favorite, a Merkel K-1 in .308. Have looked at the Dakota but decided on the Merkel instead, mostly because it can be taken down, a nifty feature (3 of my 99's are take-downs).

You had best stay away from the .17 HMR. I was a skeptic too until I tried one. It does a lot more than an accurate .22 LR, as its more accurate and shoots far flatter, a genuine 200-yard small varmint rifle. Also just as cheap to shoot as the handloaded .221/.222/.223--but you don't have to handload!

MD

i've got 3 22s on hand...

a remington 581, my first rifle, which routinely shoots any thing well.... the 3 loads that i prefer to use in it are
a) the power point
b) rem hv hp
c) rem yellowjacket (most precise load found) i still have a couple of bricks but haven't seen them on the shelf for years...

a sako 78 which i have not experimented enough with (leaving well enough alone with the PP)

a rem 552 speedmaster which will only perform well with the mini mag HP.....

i do not record, or even notice lot #s .... i tend to buy in small quantities over time... actually i make it a habit to make a purchase every time i darken the door of the rifle shop... way too many guys use it as a free hangout, spend an hour or two in there but not a dime, usually..... john w

Aw, [bleep], now you've gone and done it - I might just have to find one, esp. considering that I don't have a rimfire barrel for the T/C. Dang it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You won't be sorry....

MD

The Thompson Center 22 Classic I bought this spring shows a distinct preference for CCI Mini Mags. This is a first for any of my 22's. Winchester, Remington, or Federal (normal priced or promo) didn't shoot as well.
Of course, to see the rifle's real potential, I tried some Federal Gold Match shells, too. Ohmygod! That's some real accuracy from a field rifle. I wasn't nearly as good as the 22 benchrest shooter in the commercial, but I was surely pleased.

Just ran 50 PowerPoints through my Sako FinnFire yesterday.
Got .5 for a 50 shot group at 30 yds.
Good enough! gotta go kill some sage rats!
Virgil B.

VB:

I ne'er seen that FinnFire!

Let me try that one day!

BMT

BMT,
Would be happy to let you run some rounds through the Sako. It's got a Leupold 3X9 EFR scope, (with dot) Dandy trigger and is just an all-around, great shootin rifle.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Virgil B.